RAF 2000 Crash

[David Cox]

A RAF2000 Crashed today at Pontiac international Airport in Waterford Michigan. The Aircraft is a total loss BUT the Pilot Walked away with no injuries. This is very good after falling 100' to the grass.
Declared an emergency due to power loss.

[GyroRon]

Why did the gyro end up a total loss? Even from 100 feet a engine out landing should be no problem. Was he a low time pilot? Did he have much time or training in a gyro? Who was his instructor? GLAD no one got hurt.

[David Cox]

HE is a new gyro pilot formerly a fixed wing Mooney pilot. HE was working on flying off the 40 hours on his RAF. Lined up on the runway and consetrated on keeping it straight until he hit the ground and and rolled on the second bounce. He was gaining rpm but losing airspeed on climbout at 100 agl he declared an emergency and made a right turn to return to the runway the tower reported seeing a trail of black smoke as he approached the runway.
I will be going to the hangar to see the RAF tomorrow morning.

[GyroRon]

Sorry HE tore up his machine. would like to hear more about how it happened and why. Also still would like to know his instructors name is.

[Chopper Reid]

Hard to imagine anyone properly trained destroying a gyro in those circumstances ???

[GyroRon]

that was my thoughts as well, but a instructor can only do so much too. Remember the old saying.... $hit happens

[mcbirdman]

It sounds like power loss might not neccesarily mean engine out. Sounds like under the power curve when you say gaining rpm but losing airspeed. Is that what you mean? jtm

[Chopper Reid]

I would have thought that his FW training would have overriden the turn back to the strip, even in a gyro,its better to land straight ahead unless you have a lot more height than "100 ft"
Ron, glad we agree on something ! :)

[Brent_Brown]

At 100' low power 180 back to land ( bigs tree will make you do that) I can see a damaged gyro out of that. I have pines that are 80' so a 180 would be the right thing to do at one end of my runway too. He did good to walk away.

[Aussie_Paul]

All is dependant on what airspeed the pilot had at the time the trouble started.

That is why I teach to climb reasonable flat with reduced power to at least 200'. Sometimes that is not possible, BUT if a steep full power climb is conducted at climb speed or a bit below while under 200', you are setting up for a bent machine if and when things do wrong.

Aussie Paul.:)

[Rando]

David,

Have you rebuilt your RAF yet? Have you been doing any gyro flying since your incident?

[David Cox]

Started putting it together last week BUT I am now selling as is or I will part it out and get what I can it only lacks rotor blades have many extras that I planned to install

[Rando]

Do you have any plans on building something else after you sell your RAF?

[mcbirdman]

David - before you sell - go get a flight in the modified Raf. All indications are that it is a much better - more stable machine. I know you like to fly and I know you are probably scared now but maybe you need to see the difference by such a flight. If you get some hands on I think maybe you'll reconsider and find out that these changes can make it the machine you thought you had. After all you have done it seems like it would be worth the effort to explore this. jtm

[Doug Riley]

A pitch-stable machine can help you a bit even in this kind of diffcult situation. A gyro with an uncompensated high prop thrustline will nose up, flare and lose airspeed unnecessarily when power is lost. A pitch-stable machine will automatically nose down and hold (or even gain) airspeed.

[KenSandyEggo]

FAA Prelim Report

************************************************** ******************************
** Report created 9/20/2004 Record 4 **
************************************************** ******************************

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 702BX Make/Model: EXP Description: EXP- EXP GRYO-COPTER
Date: 09/18/2004 Time: 1953

Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Unknown

LOCATION
City: WATERFORD State: MI Country: US

DESCRIPTION
ACFT DEPARTED RWY 27R AT OAKLAND COUNTY INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT. ACFT GOT
AIRBORNE AND PILOT DECLARED HE NEEDED TO LAND. SMOKE WAS OBSERVED COMING
FROM ACFT. ACFT LANDED JUST OFF THE DEPARTURE END AND ROLLED TO ITS SIDE.
UNKNOWN DAMAGE IS REPORTED. WATERFORD, MI

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: A53Z 360/10KT 10SM CLR 20/09 A3025



OTHER DATA
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Take-off Operation: General Aviation

Departed: PONTIAC, MI PTK Dep Date: 09/18/2004 Dep. Time: 1952
Destination: PONTIAC, MI PTK Flt Plan: VFR Wx Briefing: N
Last Radio Cont: IN AIR DEPT END OF RWY 27R
Last Clearance: CLRD TO LND ANY SURFACE

FAA FSDO: DETROIT, MI (GL23) Entry date: 09/20/2004

[rocketman]

At least when he made a right turn instead of a left turn to attempt to return to the runway, with the wind at 360/10, he did the right thing by turning into the wind, but once lined up with the runway it would seem like the wind certainly wasn't helping him any.

[Rando]

FAA Registry
N-Number Inquiry Results
N number is Assigned

Assigned/Registered Aircraft

Aircraft Description

Serial Number H2 97 8 322 Type Registration Corporation
Manufacturer Name ABBOTT RONALD J Certificate Issue Date 01/30/2004
Model RAF 2000 GTX SE Status Valid
Type Aircraft Rotorcraft Type Engine Reciprocating
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 52256053
MFR Year 2004 Fractional Owner NO

Registered Owner

Name EAGLE FLIGHT INC
Street 80 CAYUGA RD
City LAKE ORION State MICHIGAN Zip Code 48362-1300
County OAKLAND
Country UNITED STATES

Airworthiness

Engine Manufacturer AMA/EXPR Classification Experimental
Engine Model UNKNOWN ENG Category Amateur Built

A/W Date 04/06/2004

Temporary Certificate

None

Fuel Modifications

None

-

[Aussie_Paul]

Ron said, "Remember the old saying.... $hit happens".

I prefer the old saying, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink".

Aussie Paul.:)

[Aussie_Paul]

You're right Doug, every couple of mph and milliseconds count at that point in ones aviation pursuit.

Aussie Paul.:)

[David Cox]

Pilots Please note that this RAF accident had nothing to do with the type of Gyro. If you make an error it is going to bite you no matter what you fly.
Remember to flare before hitting the ground not after the bounce...........

For you Suabaru drivers picture your upper radiator hose off and spilling coolant on the exhaust, did leave a trail of smoke in the sky and at the point of impact as reported by the FAA. The emergency responce team belived it was on fire as they approached and were glad it was only steam from the coolant spilling on the exhaust and no fire.
Engine heating up and loss of power !

[Chopper Reid]

It doesnt take much to stuff up a forced landing and if he didnt have the airspeed on the way down nailed, then the flare wasnt going to happen too well.