New EJ25 Install Pics [Archive]

route66

08-18-2009, 01:50 PM

Looking good Chris! Looks like the IvoProp might be a little close from the picture. The prop will flex up to 2.5 inches forward and back and can be up to an inch vertical depending on your engine mounts and tail support flex. I seemed to have plenty of room when I installed my Ivo but it did nick the tail support making me do a few modifications and having Ivo cut 1/2 inch off the prop.
You don't seem to have many options for the ICU or controls. You might consider a plate across the mast where you have the strobe electronics to hold all electric units or consider building a trailer to fly behind:)

Looking great, it won't be long now!

dingbat

08-18-2009, 01:54 PM

Hi Chris,

Nice looking machine, grat job, nice engine, good choice!
From another sub owner EA81

regards G.

LAA. BRA. UK

RotoPlane

08-18-2009, 02:20 PM

My goodness....that is a monster engine! I like it! I also like to see the shocks mounted down low....easier on the long struts and it looks neat too.

ultracruiser41

08-18-2009, 03:30 PM

Chris....me likey!

Bring her on down to ROC 2009 this year in October!

Would love to see her fly!

BarryK

mark treidel

08-18-2009, 03:40 PM

Chris, I ran across the same problem with my A/C and the prop clearance issue. You are too close at this time. Consider this option....rather than cut the blade shorter, I made new plates which raised the boom over the prop by 2". They are a bit longer and more 'L' shaped but did the job quite well. There was never an issue after that. They were very stout and there was no comprimise in support of the mast arm or top of tail sections. I was able to keep the full size of the prop and not lose any performance with that modification. Besides, you want as much prop as possible for that whopper.

barnstorm2

08-18-2009, 04:37 PM

Looking good!

How did you get the photo from the air?

CLS447

08-19-2009, 01:26 AM

Wow ! Thanks for the interest you guys !

First off....Tim, That pic was taken from the single place with that new 503 on it. I love what that engine has given me !

Barry....I won't be bringing her down this year, but I would love to see her fly , also !

Mark & Brandon.... when I originally built her with the EA81 & 68" Warp, I installed the rotorblades & tilted the blades all the way to the rear to check for blade to boom clearance. No Good ! I had to have the cheekplates made an inch taller.

So, right now the blades just clear the boom. Any attemt to raise the boom will create another situation. The Ivo is a 70" Magnum & IVO said the 2.5 should have no less than that. I know that it could be trimmed but don't really want to do that.

I want to get as much of the flying weight on her as I can & then do some hang testing. If new cheek plates are in order, then I will redesign to raise the boom. If the plates are fine, then I will have to see what I can do with what I have.

I made the mounts so that there is 1 1/2" of clearance at the bottom of the prop. Even that looks kind of scary. That prop would probably just chop the 2x2 tail boom clean off !

One thing is, the further the prop flexes forward, the more clearance it will gain.

Do you guys really think it will flex rearward ???

As far as mounting the ECU..... Things to remember.... 1.Exhaust sytem(don't have one yet).

2. Harness length is inhibiting. 3. some other things ?

Anyway, I am thinking about going over the top of the engine with the harness.

I'll take some pics of the possibilities & post them.

Thanks again guys & don't go away !

CLS447

08-20-2009, 04:30 AM

HEY ! I found a great place to mount the ECM . Forgot my camera.....wil post pics later.

I am having some clamp brackets for 3/16" bolts made & having the stock mounting tabs removed & new mount tabs welded on.

I will probably paint the ECM for looks. I am going to look for some really nice loom to bundle all those wires neatly.

All_In

08-20-2009, 11:53 AM

Chis good job, buddy!!!

lanichol

08-20-2009, 12:57 PM

HEY ! I found a great place to mount the ECM . Forgot my camera.....wil post pics later.

I was curious if anyone has found a small box to waterproof the ECU for the external mounts. I look forward to pics of your mounting or would also like to see anyone's weather proof external mount.

OzyRuss

08-20-2009, 01:03 PM

Chris............70" Ivo mag...............what box ratio??

The Ivo guys ran my numbers came back with 74" on a 2.4 box

BTW...........your build is lookin good ( you'll cream yourself with the grunt )

CLS447

08-21-2009, 03:53 AM

The ECM will be mounted to the front of the mast between the seats. 4 AN3 bolts will clamp around it, eliminating any holes & allowing me to slide it up or down.

The connectors will face downward to help prevent water intrusion. I hope that this machine will never see rain. I can always put a bag over it , if needed.

I wanted to install it in a weatherproof box, so I picked up a 8x8 PVC junction box. I returned it because it was overkill. I'm sure that an enclosure could be built for it, but I am not going to worry about it.

That bunch of wires will get wrapped with braided wrap. They will do a u-turn back up the side of the mast & jump across the gap , clear of the alternator pulley & belt, under the intake manifold & plug into the intake harness plugs.

There is the oil filter relocation kit. I am not sure where I want to mount the filter housing yet, but the location shown would make it simple for piping. It would also clear any exhaust that I might use. The material that it is held against is only 3/16th aluminum. I worry about the weight of it & vibration.

There is the air intake & filter that I hope to use. It seems very solid but a support bracket would not be a bad idea.

CLS447

08-21-2009, 04:17 AM

Some things I have not figure out yet are....

1. Throttle cable with the proper end(heavy duty).

2. Coolant fitting with cap & overflow.

3. Oil pressure sensor install( I may install a tee & keep the idiot light....or not.

4. Fuel pressure gauge........Do I need one ?

5. The last picture is me holding the part of the harness with the MAFS connector. Does anyone know what those other gizmos are ?

6. I may have to add some braces to prevent the motor from tearing off of it's mounts.

Oh Russ.....I think I have the same ratio as you. Ivo said 70" would be the minimum, so I hope to not have to trim it down. I think I can crank in enough pitch to control that little 4 banger.

Here is some wire wrap......http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Flexbraid-Wire-Cover/759804/10002/-1

OzyRuss

08-21-2009, 02:32 PM

Chris maaate, your prop clearances scary close.

Drop in a longer mast.

Vance

08-21-2009, 02:43 PM

There is a lot of very nice work and some careful thought demonstrated there.

Thank you for sharing, Vance

route66

08-21-2009, 03:16 PM

Chris, I think those gizmos are the barometer sensor. I Like where you mounted the computer, it is coming along nice!

StanFoster

08-21-2009, 03:19 PM

Chris- Sure is looking nice! I hope your radiator cap-filler neck was a better match than mine. You may remember I had very inadvertant spout offs of my coolant, received all kinds of ideas what was causing it from people here..but none helped. ..... it took over a year before it just came to me to check the seating depth of the neck versus the cap. I went through a bunch of caps at NAPA and voila....I found one that had another 1/8 reach. END OF PROBLEM!!!!

Stan

CLS447

08-21-2009, 04:46 PM

Stan, I plan to get that from tech welding....http://www.techwelding.com/

Look under products & then cooling systems. He custom makes them with your measurements. Money first !

Brandon, barometer sensor, HUH. They are in the same loom as the MAFS wires. My MAFS is kindof high so I will probably weed those wires out & mount them lower.

Do you know where the small hose attaches to the manifold ?

BTW...That was a temporary mount job. The final mounting will be much nicer & I plan to paint the box red or black & slap a Harley decal on it. I am pretty happy with that location though.

Another thing.....I was only kidding about the prop clearance. I would never even crank that engine over with that clearance.

I explained this before but I'll say it again......I want to get most of the weight on the machine & do some hang tests. If I have to remake the cheek plates I will figure out how to get some more clearance there.

I know that this has nothing to do with hang tests but she was very balanced on the mains with this bigger engine. It would stay on the nosewheel if you pushed it down.
Now that the redrive guts & prop are on, she wants to rock right back on the tail.

I believe with the heavier engine , I will have to move the rotorhead back. That will give me a whole new geometry for the upper tail boom & rotorblade fit. The cheek plates that are on there now were made 1" taller than the originals. We made them from 3/16" plate. It may be possible to make them even taller.

Russ that mast is made of 3 2"x1"'s. I won't be "dropping in" another mast.

Vance, Thanks! At least you got to do some serious flying with yours before the rebuild. This is the second time I am building this one. The EA81 I put on it didn't have what it takes to push this beast. But that engine has a home on a KB2 frame. Nothing is going to waste!

One more thing.....I noticed that this IVO Magnum did not come with a locknut for the pitch adjuster. I have one on my ultralight IVO. I Image it should have come with one.
It must be HUGE !

I was just doing a sketch for the wiring as it pertains to my machine & locations. Don Parham sent one but it is at the garage. He shows an ammeter being used. I have a voltmeter but do I really need an ammeter?

Do you really need a fuel pressure gauge? Do they read pump pressure or the regulated pressure ?

Should I install a switch to turn on/off the primary pump that gets it's power from the computer?

The secondary fuel pump will have a switch & will be powered from my fusebox.

Don said I can use a tiny tach for an 8 cylinder....that would be a drop in replacement. Then what do I do with the tach lead from the puter ?

I'll need a check engine light......nobody pays attention to them anyway !

I won't need my carb temp guage on this machine anymore....so I need to fill that hole with something.

bones

08-21-2009, 06:17 PM

One more thing.....I noticed that this IVO Magnum did not come with a locknut for the pitch adjuster. I have one on my ultralight IVO. I Image it should have come with one.
It must be HUGE .

Yep they are very good for forgetting to send these, we had 3 different props sent over to Oz and not one of them had the lock nut with them, so we just got a nut that screwed on the rod, and machined it back to about 1/3 the original lenght, and used that.

All_In

08-21-2009, 06:24 PM

Man Chris does that look sweet!!

CLS447

08-22-2009, 03:42 AM

John ,are you talking about the old engine setup ? Those are pics of the EA81 engine I had on there.

That was sweet too, but did not have enough thrust . Ron A . & others told me it would not work, but it is a lighter engine & was putting out over 500 lbs of thrust.

Besides , there are 2 place instructers who use that engine.

The rule of thumb is.....1 lb of thrust for every 2 lbs of weight. (1000lbs of weight needs 500 lbs of thrust) I was over 1000 lbs.

I wonder what the thrust to weight ratio is on Ron's Yamanator ?

Bones, Which model IVO did you have sent over. The Magnum adjuster is ALOT larger than the ultralight model.

Maybe even a middle size on the medium ? I didn't measure it but it must be at least a 1 1/2" thread.

I was turning the adjuster to show someone how the prop flexes.......WOW! that baby was tough to turn. Hard to believe that motor on the In flight- adjuster can do it !!!

StanFoster

08-22-2009, 04:17 AM

Chris- You will LOVE that inflight adjustable prop. Its like having gears in a truck. You can downshift for maximum takeoff....and upshift for maximum cruise......plus you can also set it for maximum quiet....at least much quieter than it was.

Stan

CLS447

08-22-2009, 04:27 AM

Stan, I have the ground adjustable IVO. My machine is an ELSA.:noidea:

Here is a sketch of the new wiring.....what did I miss ?

I may get a fuel pressure guage & an ammeter.:flame:

StanFoster

08-22-2009, 04:33 AM

Chris- My mistake....I saw where you mentioned how the electric motor could change the pitch.....I see now you were talking about if you had one on there.

Stan

CLS447

08-31-2009, 01:59 AM

We hung the SxS yesterday. I can't believe it......with the 2.5 & MOST of the engine installed...... Stick centered, no fuel & just me in the seat, the mast was at 0-1 degree.

With Shar in the other seat....it was close to 5 degrees. That is the same results as we had with the EA81.

We did not fill the tanks but know that the fuel weight did not change the results much. That also goes for the extended range tanks when they were installed.

I guess that the fuel tanks are pretty much right on the horizontal CG. I suppose the engine weight is also pretty close.

When everything is complete, we will do a thorough hang test. But for now it looks like the cheek plates are going to work !!!!!!

I still have to come up with a way to get more prop clearance at the upper tail boom.

I ordered this kit from Auto Zone to cover my wires......http://www.mr-gasket.com/ProductDetails.aspx?MajID=999&MinID=9999&productID=1377&txtSearch=11004nr

The machine shop is still messing around with the back plate of my ECM, so I do not have it mounted yet....

Vance

08-31-2009, 04:58 AM

I see a lot of very nice work there Chris.

Congratulation, it looks almost ready to fly.

In my opinion, bundling and protecting your wiring is a good idea and time well spent.

Thank you, Vance

lanichol

08-31-2009, 05:18 AM

I still have to come up with a way to get more prop clearance at the upper tail boom.

People can correct me if I am wrong, but the prop clearance is only necessary on the side close to the cabin. For example, on take-off the prop tips move forward as this is the greatest resistance trying to move the gyro forward.

In the opposite situation, flying full throttle then cutting quickly, would the blade tips move back? I don't think it would because on a dead stick landing there would be enough force to continue turning the engine.

You might be OK with your current design. The RAFs hit on the front side, not the back.

Vance

08-31-2009, 05:27 AM

People can correct me if I am wrong, but the prop clearance is only necessary on the side close to the cabin. For example, on take-off the prop tips move forward as this is the greatest resistance trying to move the gyro forward.

In the opposite situation, flying full throttle then cutting quickly, would the blade tips move back? I don't think it would because on a dead stick landing there would be enough force to continue turning the engine.

You might be OK with your current design. The RAFs hit on the front side, not the back.

Hello Larry,

I feel it is important to have the prop clear the upper tail boom by enough to allow the engine to mover on it’s mounts without the prop making contact with the upper tail boom.

Thank you, Vance

lanichol

08-31-2009, 06:38 AM

Vance,

Good point. I did not considered the engine mount not being static and looking only at the prop movement per IVO specs. I wonder how much up and down movement the mounts allow? I guess you could lift a little with a hoist.

CLS447

07-04-2011, 01:28 AM

I got back to work on the SxS yesterday !

We cut 2" off the shock tubes & redrilled them. This lowered the machine & got the wheels straightened up, but did lose some of the "rocking" clearance.

I located the AN3 bolts that I had ordered & loosely mounted the computer to the mast between the seats.

We did a hang test & found the cheek plates to be right on the money. ( I see from my posts that I had done this before!)

Now to mount the hub bar & figure out how to get some more prop clearance with the upper tail boom.

I am also going to get my remote oil filter located & mounted & start on the wiring !!!!!

Any progress is good !!!!!! Pics to follow !

CLS447

07-05-2011, 02:57 PM

OK.....here is where I am.....

With the EJ25 mounted & the 70" IVO Magnum on it, I have 1 1/2" of clearance between the prop tips & the rear keel.

Is that enough ? I think it is.... there is also plenty of room for forward flex.

My problem is with the prop to upper tail boom clearance.......NO PROBLEM !

I will just extend the attachment point on the top of the tall tail.(the pics show a temporary extension for calculation. )

I want to give it at least a 1 1/2" clearance for the prop.

Is that enough? I hope so !

This is where the problem begins...... With the boom raised for prop clearance, I installed the Sport Rotor hub bar. With the stick full back & the hub tilted all the way back, the hub bar will nicely chop off the tail boom !!!
(see pic ).

Interestingly enough.....I put on a Dragon Wing hub bar. It has more clearance because of the coning angle bent right into the hub bar.

The SR hub is straight & huge ! I will be using the SR blades.

I have a few ideas how to get the hub to boom clearance.......

1. Do exactly what I did before with the 68" Warp Drive prop..........
Get new cheekplates made that will raise the rotorhead by another 1".

This means that my cheekplates will have raised the head a total of 2" over "stock" plates. When I had them made 1" taller , I went with 3/16th material for strength & stiffness.

I'll let you all look at the pictures & ask for other ideas to solve this puzzle, before I reveal my other possible techniques. !!!

The last pic shows the clearances that I want & need !

SO LET'S HEAR IT !!! what do you got ???

CLS447

07-05-2011, 03:10 PM

Some more pics to help you think...........

and don't try to look up my shorts !!!

The pic with the protractor might give a clue as to where I am going with this.

StanFoster

07-05-2011, 03:35 PM

Chris- Its nice to see you back on your build, you do such meticulous work! Raising your rotor blades one inch will raise your CG the same percentage times one inch that the weight of the blades/hubbar is of the whole gyro wth pilot. Let's say your blades and hubbar weigh 100 pounds. If your gyro with you in it weighs 800 pounds, then the rotor/hub is one eight the total weight. Multiply 1/8 times the one inch the rotor was moved upwardsn and you will have a miniscule 1/8 inch raise of the CG. Looking great Chris! Stan

CLS447

07-05-2011, 03:39 PM

Thanks Stan, I was not even thinking about the change in the CG ! So you think that raising the rotorhead is the best solution ?

Any other ideas ?

Can I stop the blades from tipping back so far ?

StanFoster

07-05-2011, 03:48 PM

Chris- Raising the rotor so you can swing a larger prop sounds like a winner. Just in case your CG is lower than the thrustline, then raising the blades will make it even closer to CLT, although it won't move it but just around an 1/8 inch. Stan

CLS447

07-05-2011, 05:30 PM

Thanks for the thoughts , Stan. I wondered if others would have any ideas. So I will ask some questions to raise the thinking process.

1. How many degrees should a hub bar teeter.....stop to stop ?

2. What is the minimum & why ?

3. Is the rotor head mounting bolt pattern always perpendicular to the mast mounting hole patterns ( on the cheekplates)?
What would happen if I changed the rotorhead pattern to tilt the rotor head more forward ? ( this would help my clearance problem )

4. I'll have more later.........

bones

07-05-2011, 08:37 PM

Ok Chris, ill have a go at it, see i modified your photo, the line i drew on it is(sposed to be) the angle of the bottom plates of the rotor head, now ideally these should be at approx 9* back to the in flight angle of the machine, so if for arguement the machine flys as it sits on the floor of your shed, that angle should be 9* back.
That puts your blades at 9* flying, in the centre of the controls.
Now as for teeter angle rule of thumb is 6* each side of centre(i think, damn mind blank) or is it 9* ??????
9* of pitch and roll movement of the head, i remember that.

CLS447

07-06-2011, 02:09 AM

OK Bones.....

I think you are right.

If my front & rear keels are level, I believe that my mast is tilted 9 degrees rearward.

Because the rotor head is perpendicular to the mast, the rotor head, when centered, is at 9 degrees back. The range of motion on my torque tube, on the head, is a total of 18 degrees.........9 front & 9 back.

Who says that these are the angles that have to be used ????? Are these written in stone ???

Now for the BIG question......HOW MUCH MUST MY HUB BAR TEETER ??????????

My SR hub bar, from stop to stop, has a total of 22 degrees. This can vary for several reasons....... Teeter block height,& tower height are 2 of the reasons.

If I limit the hub bar teeter, through one of several techniques, I could gain the clearance that I need.

The question is ....HOW MUCH HUB BAR OR BLADE TEETER IS REQUIRED FOR SAFE OPERATION ????????

Master Roda

07-06-2011, 06:05 AM

Chris,

I believe 22 degrees is adequate. We are at 20 IIRC.

Jon

CLS447

07-06-2011, 06:11 AM

Wow did you skim that or what ????

I am asking about limiting my teeter to gain clearance on the tail boom.

What is the minimum teeter & why ??

How would you reduce the teeter ( by what method? )

Thanks

Master Roda

07-06-2011, 06:31 AM

Raise the rotorhead.

CLS447

07-06-2011, 06:52 AM

Alright, I am also trying to learn something here.

Raising the rotorhead sounds the best but what is the minimum hub teeter & why ?

bmoore2156

07-06-2011, 10:26 AM

Chris,
I skimmed the thread and have a thought for you. All the RAF gyros I have looked at would chop the tail off if you went full back stick and full back teeter. The stock rafs will smack the ground too. My RAF with the sh conversion will hit about 3" of the tail. The key is proper rotor management while taking off and ground handling. I NEVER go full back until my rotor is spinning 120. I never go full throttle till it's 200. I taxi slow and with full forward stick. If I get blade flap, I stop.
I can't help you with your measurements, but it's common to see a gyro that can cut it's tail off on the ground if not handled right.
Your SC rotors should have a nice coning angle when at flight speed. Take that into account when determining if you have enough clearance.

CLS447

07-06-2011, 03:31 PM

Brad, thanks for the input. The blades hitting the ground was a side observation.

You can see from the pics that the hub bar will hit the tail boom at full back.

I will say that the SR Hub bar will not cone up although the blades will.

Minnesota_Mike

07-07-2011, 09:54 AM

Hi Chris....
The recent 2.5 install on an Air Command Tandem Elite I did required that the cheek plates had to be raised (1.5") and a slight Modification to the boom (to drop the angle down from just over the prop tips to the top of the Tail).

The benefit when completed was greater ground clearance for the blades and it eliminated any clearance issues with the hub bar to that tail boom.
Took me 3 days to complete all.

M-M.

CLS447

07-07-2011, 01:07 PM

Hey Mike, If I go with the taller cheek plates, I will probably do that later when the engine & machine are all rewired first.I will have them done at the machine shop for a perfect match.

Man I did some nice work wiring up the first time.

Now I have pulled the wires all back to the instrument pod....it kills me ! I will only be doing at least the same type of job this time & hopefully even making some improvements. I can't believe that I did not tag all my wires.....they will be tagged this time.

I gotta get rid of my carb temp gauge. Figure out what type of tach/hr meter I will use.

I am thinking it would be nice to have 1 larger hot wire run to the instrument pod & get some type of distibution block so to not run so many hot wires to my battery.

Any thoughts on that ?

StanFoster

07-07-2011, 03:01 PM

Chris- I ran my power from my battery to a busbar inside my console. From there went all my power to the circuits. Stanc

CLS447

07-07-2011, 04:34 PM

Thanks Stan, any pics or suppliers ?

What size wire fed it ?

StanFoster

07-07-2011, 05:30 PM

Chris- The pictures are in my Helicycle Hatchery thread. I ran three #14 gauge wires tied together to my main buss. The main buss can have as many terminals as you need. Stan

CLS447

07-08-2011, 01:42 AM

Where did you get it ,Stan ?

CLS447

07-10-2011, 01:48 AM

I have a few ideas how to get the hub to boom clearance.......

1. Do exactly what I did before with the 68" Warp Drive prop..........
Get new cheekplates made that will raise the rotorhead by another 1".

This means that my cheekplates will have raised the head a total of 2" over "stock" plates. When I had them made 1" taller , I went with 3/16th material for strength & stiffness.

I'll let you all look at the pictures & ask for other ideas to solve this puzzle, before I reveal my other possible techniques. !!!

The last pic shows the clearances that I want & need !

SO LET'S HEAR IT !!! what do you got ???[/QUOTE]

Because noone else had any other ideas on getting more clearance, I will offer my other possible techniques.................

2. Limit my hub bar teeter by....

a. Changing out the teeter block on the hub bar. ( would have to ship hub bar to Sport copter & have this done)

b. Make new towers to lower hub bar.( How much?)

c. Have a thicker stop plate made for the top of the bearing block on the head. Thereby limiting the hub bar teeter.

d. Install some shim material to the edges of the teeter stop plate like I show in the one picture where I used washers as a test shim.

This technique is why I was asking what the minimum teeter for the hub bar would be & why.

Thanks for any input.........

CLS447

07-13-2011, 03:12 AM

Why is it that everyone has an opinion after the fact ??

Hey Stan, just something I was thinking about..... We installed a new electrical panel at a friends house. Turns out that his electric range was connected to a 50 amp breaker with 2 # 10 romex wires insted of 1 #6 romex. Does that sound kosher to you ??? Why ?

StanFoster

07-13-2011, 04:07 AM

Chris- Each # 10 wire will carry 30 amps each. so...two will carry 60 amps. However, I dont know about code, but if one wire should fail, then the whole 50 amps is going through one of the #10 wires, causing it to get very warm.

The amperages my rectifier put out could all go through one of the 3 wires ok...so I am not concerned there. I would rather have the redundancy of two extra wires while flying.

Stan

CLS447

07-13-2011, 04:44 AM

That's good thinking, Stan. Can you tell me what amperage a single #14 can carry ?

What is the max load being drawn from that buss ?

Where did you get that buss, I am trying to locate one ?

BTW he was not comfortable with the 2 # 10s So we changed it to #6......almost 100'. That was not cheap for something that had been working for who knows how long ???????

StanFoster

07-13-2011, 04:57 AM

Chris-
#10 30 amps

#12 20 amps

#14 15 amps

I bought the buss at Aircraft Spruce.

My total amps output is I believe 20 amps. If two of my three #14 wires failed....then technically I am asking a #14 wire to carry 20 amps instead of its 15 rated amps....but it wont get hot. Plus...thats if two other wires fail. I have them all bundled together and soldered on the ends.

I would not even consider have multiple wires going to high amperage appliances in my home. Say something happens to one of the two wires....now that one wire has to carry all that load and it could get hot enough to cause the insulaltion to be challenged. I would rather have one big wire break, and not have a fire hazard in my home. My triple # 14 wires however are redundancy in my helicopter. However, I could loose all my electrical from my batteries.....lose my Keywest regulator which supplies all the power, and although I would lose my instruments, I could still fly till my fuel ran out.

Stan