Waht to do when I hit my TBO on Rotax 503 dcdi?

[BEN S]

This question is for anybody, but I put it here in case Evan reads it.
I know the places like Lockwood or CPS will rebuild the 503 for me, but my question is how much should I send them? Is there a special way to crate the motor. Do they want just the engine or the carbs and fan as well.
Is there anything to be aware of when dissasembling the engine for shipping?
It would be easier to drive the whole machine somewhere to be worked on, but I don't think anyone wants the whole machine, just the engine.
Yeah I did buy a video on doing it myself and relized that I'd rather let someone else with all the proper tools do it.
Any suggestions or help as well as recomendations on who is best to send it to would be most appreciated.
Ben S

[scottessex]

You need to call them and see what they need, when I rebuild an engine I like to have all the parts.
I am not sure if Lockwood or CPS would need your carbs and exhaust.

Build a wooden crate, bolt the engine in the crate and brace it well. Also make sure that it has skids on the bottom so a forklift can lift it, otherwise they will mangle it.

Or build a crate for the engine and bolt it to a pallet.

[GrantR]

If it is running fine I would not have it rebuilt. Most of the people I have talked with run them until they quit. I know of some that have gone over 800hrs without being opened.

[Master Roda]

If it is running fine I would not have it rebuilt. Most of the people I have talked with run them until they quit. I know of some that have gone over 800hrs without being opened.

Don't be retarded.

[Master Roda]

This question is for anybody, but I put it here in case Evan reads it.
I know the places like Lockwood or CPS will rebuild the 503 for me, but my question is how much should I send them? Is there a special way to crate the motor. Do they want just the engine or the carbs and fan as well.
Is there anything to be aware of when dissasembling the engine for shipping?
It would be easier to drive the whole machine somewhere to be worked on, but I don't think anyone wants the whole machine, just the engine.
Yeah I did buy a video on doing it myself and relized that I'd rather let someone else with all the proper tools do it.
Any suggestions or help as well as recomendations on who is best to send it to would be most appreciated.
Ben S

Evan doesn't read, first of all.

Second, We have the tools to rebuild for you. I'm not sure what Jim wants for it, but I'm sure we could work out a mutual deal.

For god's sake call me, you know the number :)

[GyroRon]

Master Roda, It isn't retarded to go past TBO. To go till it quits might not be smart, but to go to say 400 or 500 hours is not dumb at all. Have the top end inspected and if it is within specs I would fly it at least to 400 hours before overhauling it. I too know MANY people who have over 500 hours on 503 rotax with no issues at all.

[Master Roda]

Master Roda, It isn't retarded to go past TBO. To go till it quits might not be smart, but to go to say 400 or 500 hours is not dumb at all. Have the top end inspected and if it is within specs I would fly it at least to 400 hours before overhauling it. I too know MANY people who have over 500 hours on 503 rotax with no issues at all.

With all due respect sir,

I know Ben. I know where he fly's. If he had an engine failure, it might not be pretty.

I like Ben and would not like to see him hurt. He should follow all manufacturer recommendations.

Why would the manufacturer call for it? It stands to reason that you should follow what they say. To me, it seems retarded to deviate from that.

[Earthboundmisft]

Man I WISH I was at TBO on my gyro. Im at NO BO...dont know how to fly.

[Master Roda]

GyroRon,

Going until "it quits" is exactly what he was suggesting. Not right at all. As you said, you already know that.

[Earthboundmisft]

This thread makes me wonder how many hours I had on my old Yamaha RD400 bottom end. Tortured that motor for many many miles. Expandos, reeds, big carbs, tons of fun.

[BEN S]

Jon, I would be more than happy to send it to you first, didn't know you guys were available for that sort of thing. Hell I need a vacation from my vacation, maybe I should plan a road trip.
As for flying it when it goes over the TBO I like the idea of not screwing with something if it aint broke, but I'm pretty sure Rotax has a reason for overhaul at three hundread hours.
Jon, see what a great job I did of staying out of the gun debate!
I'll call you this week.
Ben S

[Master Roda]

I'm sure the engine wouldn't quit, but those are big rocks man.....

RE: gun debate,
Like a church mouse you were.....impressive.

Talk to ya soon........

[Doug Riley]

One of the reasons for the puny TBO on Rotax 2-strokes (300 hours or five years, whichever comes first) is that some parts deteriorate even while not in use. The seals harden and start to leak crankcase compression. The crank and bearings (being only lightly coated with oil, not immersed in it) rust.

Other things being equal, the more often the engine is run, the more likely it'll go way past TBO without a problem. Daily use makes them happiest.

The typical 30-hour-a-year use cycle (possibly with a winter layup, as often happens here in the North) is tough on these engines.

[GrantR]

With all due respect sir,

I know Ben. I know where he fly's. If he had an engine failure, it might not be pretty.

I like Ben and would not like to see him hurt. He should follow all manufacturer recommendations.

Why would the manufacturer call for it? It stands to reason that you should follow what they say. To me, it seems retarded to deviate from that.



The above statement seems retarded to me since you are implying the engine will not quit if the recommended overhaul is performed. I said I know of some that have gone over 800 hrs. I meant without rebuild. They were checked periodically for carbon/ compression and other minor maintenance items.

Going until "it quits" is exactly what he was suggesting. Not right at all. As you said, you already know that.

Everyone that is a member of the engine out club flew until the engine quit! Engines die all the time before the TBO time.

It sounds like Ben may need to find a new place to fly. You shouldn’t be flying over anything you are not willing to land on.

[BEN S]

over this or ANY post. Ever.
I fly my gyro every weekend all year round. The area where I fly is not difficult to land in safely. I could land just about anywhere I wanted. getting out of the desert and back to safety and water might be a serious problem though. temps yesterday were 113 degrees. No cell coverage, that sort of thing.
My mecahnical apptitude is FAR higher when disassembling things than assembling them, so I leave the internal engine stuff to pros.
It seems to me that you can blow off the tbo on other types of engines without too much trouble if they stop, but things that go up do come down and if the pro can look at my engine and say this part seems ok for now but looks loke you might have sometrouble with it later, i'm just as inlined to say rip it out and replace it with factory new parts. If nothing else it provides me with cheap peace of mind. If my engine gets quiet than I will deal with that at the time it happens.
Thank you for all your inputs.
Ben S

[BEN S]

I can't imagine rust being a problem where I'm located, but do you think the parts might rust anyway from some other source of moisture, like the fuel or oil? Hell I don't know if there is enough moisture in either of those two but aside from the ambient air where would it come from?
My gyro stays inside a nice hangar all week waiting for weekend flying. and it hardly EVER rains here. average humidity according to almanac is 12-18%.
Just curious as you seem to always have well thought out reasons for your comments.
Ben S

[Master Roda]

Grant,

I imply nothing. I say what is on my mind. You should say what you mean so that everyone knows what your saying.

[dabkb2]

Ben- When I fly out and away from civilization, I strap a bottle of water onboard, just a thought.

[Rehan K.Janjua]

OVERHAULS...........Remanufactor.........Rebuilt.. .......etc mean different things
these will be done as per requirements.

My 582 has 600 with proper maintance and parts replaced as needed on inspections
every 300 hrs.

Only change the part which are worn out or out lived.

Thank You.

[GrantR]

Ben,

In my fixed wing training I was taught that you should carry survival gear with you if you are flying over hostile terrain. In you case plenty of water, some food, sun screen, and cover to protect you from the sun and heat. That’s a few of the things I can think of.
My pantys are not in a bunch I am just responding to comments made regarding my posts. :)


Jon,

To say “I'm sure the engine wouldn't quit” That is wrong because an engine is a mechanical device that is constantly under high levels of stress. Any one little thing can cause it to die in the blink of an eye whether it has 1 hour run time of 1000 hours. That’s why you should fly expecting the engine to quit not hoping it will not. I do say what I think I just try to say it in a nicer manner than some. :ohwell:

[Master Roda]

Grant,

To say that you should fly until the engine quites isn't right. That was my point. Saying that it is retarded means simply you haven't thought it through enough. Would you say that you should fly your rotors until they stop turning?

I apologize if I hurt your feelers :)

[BEN S]

take a look at my bio sometime, if you think for a minuet I'm not carrying survival gear that would be a mistake. I am not only trained in desert survival but enjoy rough camping as well. However my training lets me relize the difficulty in surviving that type of situation. Odds are against you.
Ben S

[GrantR]

Ben,

I was just stating it. I didn’t know if you did or didn’t.

Jon,

I guess you misinterpreted what I was saying. By running it to it quits I mean as long as its maintained well.

I apologize if I hurt your feelers You better before I come up there to Oregon. :D LOL just kidding with you Jon. You didn’t hurt my feeling. As we know typing with no expression is sometimes taken wrong.

Its all good guys after all this is the stuff the forum members like to read." the drama!" :drama: :boink:

[billygyro]

Rotax, 503 (just my 2 cents worth)

keep the plugs changed as normal mat.always mix the fuel the same(a bit of marvel mystery oil works great on the internal parts) cap full per gal. don't forget to keep the air filters fogged.

Decarb the top end at 250 hrs, and a complete rebuild at 500 hrs.

For storing the engine for long terms, drain the carbs,pull the carbs and rotate the crank around until the piston on one side is up and fog the inside, do the same for the other, once fogged rotate the crank until both pistons are covering the holes. you can now pull the pulse line off the block that goes to the fuel pump and insert a pin into the hole and right into the crank to hold it for you at that position. then install the carbs back on and fill them with marvel mystery oil, install the air filters (fogged) and cover them with clear plastic wrap. install new plugs and that will keep it until ready for use later.

as far as the fuel pump goes, simply replace with a new one, not recommend a rebuild kit, but they are available if preferred. cost is not that much different.

Also if you have a 2 blade prop set up on your machine, you can position the prop horizontal and bolt it back on at the point that the pistons are straight across center of the block and when you shut down the engine you might just find that the prop will stop at or close to that position just about every time. that really came in hand on my old weedhopper when the engine lost power on take off and had to make a emergency landing in a plowed filled right off the runway ! The prop only had 6 inches of clearance to begin with.
You don't have to do any of this, Just my suggestions.:yo:

[BEN S]

Thank you that seems like a very prudent and well thought out plan for a lay-up. Turns out that I'm farther away from my tbo than I thought, I was looking in the wrong logbook! Never heard of mystery oil. also I have an oil injector, were you suggesting to mix a cap ful in the gas anyway? Or waas that only if you premix?
thanks
Ben S

[billygyro]

Ben you can put it in the gas or the oil works both ways will work just fine, It wont hurt the oil injection system abit. In fact it will help it as well. just remember how much gas you have for the right mix.