Mustering

[aerialvisitor]

Could any of you Australian pilots tell us more about "mustering." What do you do and how do you fly to do it. Sounds interesting. Does anyone do anything like that here in the States? Thanks.

[down under]

No matter how you fly the main thing to have for successful mustering is stock sense. Thats knowing what the stock are thinking, knowing where they will head to when you start them up and knowing where they will hide. Its also knowing when you need to put pressure on them and when not to.
The flying is very different to most of what I see on the forum. I see on the forum at times there is a lot of emphasis on watching the instruments. If your flying low you will end up plowing a furrow in the dirt while watching instruments.

There are a couple of threads on the forum about downwind turns and downwind flying. Some people think there is no difference between upwind and down wind, but if you fly low thinking that you will plow another furrow. The machine and the wind will tell you what can be done and what can't be done before you get to the point of no return.

Landing. You dont see a bird looking at the end of the strip and watching instruments when he wants to land on a branch. I usually land at a fuel drum so I dump it down there and stop with my wheel against the drum so I can fuel up without stopping the rotors. When I first started flying I practiced trying to get perfect landings greasing it on ect. After a couple of hours I got sick of that and forgot about it. Once I give that stuff a miss and didnt worry about how I put it down it got like a bird landing.

The paddock sizes in this area range from a couple of thousand acres to about 40 000 depending on how many fences have fallen down. Average size is about 10 000. That will take between 2.5 to 4 hours to muster depending on how the stock are running. Sometimes it can take longer. Where the country is more open I will fly a 450 metre grid but where it is dense canopy I fly a 250 metre grid.

Birdy might give you a better discription of the flying and he works different country so he may have different tactics for planning a muster. I think he's got a couple of videos on youtube taken from the gyro.

[birdy]

Its no different to usen horses, buggys, helis or bikes from a cows perspective.
From our perspective its the same as usen a horse that wont stand still, or a bike or buggy that dont have neutral, or a heli that can burn 12lph, and theres no grass seeds or flies, and the view is much better. ;)
But, theres mustern, and then theres puttn round spotn for a ground crew.
If your on your own, you gota do everythn rite, coz theres no backup. This takes a high performance, economical manouverable machine with a very low min AS.
Spotn isnt much different to regular gyroing, cept you dont get to choose wen or where, and you have a legit pourpose other than enjoyn the view. ;)

Oh yeh, and wot Pete says.
Gyro mustering is 98% cow sence and 2% flyn ability.

Does anyone do anything like that here in the States?
I often wunder the same thing.
If not, why not?

[BUD ONEAL]

The most of us do not have the need for that,or the "gonads"if we did.

[Mark E]

Birdy, Peter,

I remember Birdy saying in another post how important good visibility was (in relation to having no pod) ...

How much of that is just being able see to find the beasties, and how much does it relate to "being in exactly the right place at the right time" ...ie , seeing how the cattle are reacting?

[down under]

I put a nose cone and windshield on my machine because at one stage I was getting too cold. I started missing stock I was flying over because when the sun was on the windsheild that become a blind spot. I prefer it to be completly open both for visability and to feel the wind when working stock but the wind and noise get tiring when flying long hours. I think a fair number of mustering gyro's have pods and some are mustering with full cabs. Personaly I would like to have a pod or cab that I can pull a few pins and drop it at the fuel drum if I will be working thick country or stock that will take a bit of handling.

[Fl90]

Yes, it's done in the States.

[Resasi]

Probably cuts down on the saddle sores, covers more ground, and, as Birdy says, it's hard to beat the view.

[aerialvisitor]

Hey Birdy, I watched your Low Level Gyro Mustering video on YouTube. Do you get a lot of splinters flying down among the trees like that?

[birdy]

Yes, it's done in the States.
Thought so.
Why do we never hear from them?

How much of that is just being able see to find the beasties,
Visability is everythn, thats the hole point of be'n up there.
If you dont see it, you wont get it.
And if you fly over sumthn without see'n it, and it dont move, youv just taught it the worst habit. The moo instantly knows that all they gota do is stand still and itll be quiet soon.
Sitn in the eliments also gives you the best possable 'feel' wen your low n slow.
Yes, wen its sub 0c, its uncomfortable, but you cant have to both ways.

Do you get a lot of splinters flying down among the trees like that?
Not yet. ;)

Iv just got back from a small job.
Ferel camels flatened sum of our south boundery fence and a few of me bullocks headed out into the simpson desert. Million spu miles of nuthn out there.
I found me bullocks, landed ona [ very small] spot, droped the fence, took off n convinced them to get inside, landed n fixed the fence, took off n found the camels, fixed them, flew the rest of the south boundery [ 60km] checked a few waters and got back for a late lunch. All in only 4 hours airtime and still had over an hours of fuel left.

Why would i fly anythn else? :)

[Resasi]

Those gyros of your have to be very effective and economic force multipliers for you Birdy.

What you just did with four hours airtime would have taken probably a day or two on a ground vehicle, more on a horse, if you would ever have found out about the missing cattle in the first place.

My grandfathers place in Northers Kenya was pretty spread out and checking on cattle in the lower valleys couple of days work at least.

His main Ferel problem in the early days was a feline one.
Leopard taking his calves. Elephants flattened the fences.

[down under]

[ Yes, it's done in the States. ]

What sort of country do you fly there Fl90. US seems crowded compared to oz, but I guess there would still be some open spaces there.

Any gyro mustering over your way Resasi. It seems a big place over there.

[Resasi]

Yes big and very beautiful country Peter. All types of terrain flora and fauna. Coastal plains, low veldt, high veldt, mountains and desert. Still quite a lot of game animals though numbers are dwindling as the population and use of land explodes. No gyro mustering though. Only five gyros I know of there right now. All Magnis.

Only mustering done so far, by Bruce Field in a Magni, of competitors of the Rhino Charge Safari which raises money for fencing protection for Rhino conservation.

First gyro out there a Dominator of Ernie's some years back. Had an unfortunate accident, pilot error, low turn rotor strike. Friend I knew from years ago Johny Camm. Seat belt wouldn'd unfasten, got badly burnt, died in an air ambulance being taken to Europe quite co-incidentaly flown by another friend who later worked for me in Saudi. Didn't hear about it until some time after the accident.

Hoping when we finish this first single seater of our to take it down there and test the water. Civil air regs been recently all changed. Now a paperwork and beaureaucratic nightmare. Welcome to Africa.

Would love to get a Xenon down there. Think that would work very well for all sorts of work. Game control, surveillance, tourist rides, short airtaxi rides on the outskirts of Nairobi. The traffic jams there are unbelievable. Takes literally hours just to get from on side of town to the other, a ride that should and used to take fifteen to twenty minutes max can take three hours.

[birdy]

What you just did with four hours airtime would have taken probably a day or two on a ground vehicle, more on a horse, if you would ever have found out about the missing cattle in the first place.
Thats the head of the nail Resasi, fair n square. :)

Elephants flattened the fences.
He he he, kinda makes my bitch bout camels look like a mole hill ay. ;)

[TJMay]

Yes, it's done in the States.
I found me bullocks, landed ona [ very small] spot, droped the fence, took off n convinced them to get inside, landed n fixed the fence, took off n found the camels, fixed them, flew the rest of the south boundery [ 60km] checked a few waters and got back for a late lunch. All in only 4 hours airtime and still had over an hours of fuel left.



Birdy, what does "fix them" mean when you found the camels?

Tommy

[aerialvisitor]

I ask a simple question and I get answers from Australia, Africa, Singapore and some strange place called Alabama. Is this Forum GREAT or what!

[WaspAir]

Birdy, what does "fix them" mean when you found the camels?

Tommy

Spay or neuter? Probably not.

I'm guessing the implement of choice is a firearm.

[Resasi]

'Fix'

Make sure problem does not re-occur.

Spaying and neutering means catching. Tricky, and both labor and time intensive.

You could be right WaspAir.

[birdy]

Birdy, what does "fix them" mean when you found the camels?
Diplomatice PC = Cull. ;)
Proper inglish = blast the bastereds. :)

[Graeme Monro]

Fix them means just that, he fixed them so that they wont be doing it again, ever. It a type of education.

Graeme.

[Chopper Reid]

Fix them means just that, he fixed them so that they wont be doing it again, ever. It a type of education.

Graeme.

There should be a lot more of this "education" used!:)

[earthbnd misfit]

Proper inglish = blast the bastereds.
Can you mount a helmet sighted gattling gun like on the apaches?:laser:

[birdy]

And id pay good money for it too.
Ol harry gets abit hot if theres more n 20 of um. ;(

[Resasi]

Ol Harry being your trusty 'feather duster'.

What Calibre?

Our basic instrument was.303

[birdy]

.44 mag.
The intention is NOT to just tickle or scratch them ;)

[John Stahl]

birdy
did you fix them from the air or the ground?

[PW_Plack]

Birdy, you'll have to excuse the confusion over here. "Fix" used in a veterinary sense usually means to spay or neuter the critter.

In your circumstances, you need to make it retroactive one generation!

[birdy]

did you fix them from the air or the ground?
Depends on wot im sitn in wen i see um.
Either or, dont matter, the result is the same. ;)
But i dont see many wen im driven round now days. They kinda shoot through wen they hear me comen. :)

"Fix" used in a veterinary sense usually means to spay or neuter the critter.
Ah, but my fix is more perminant Paul ;), and theres the added advantage of them not knockn over me fences, drinkn all me water, fouln me dams, eatn anythn and everythn that grows, or just pissn me off in general.

[helipaddy]

Anyone try Camel Steak??

[Steve McGowan]

I ask a simple question and I get answers from Australia, Africa, Singapore and some strange place called Alabama. Is this Forum GREAT or what!


AlaBama ain't too Bad


I Use to think JAX was fantastic.. Till a Dept Sheriff at Hugenot Park threatened to lock me up because Boo didn't have a leash on..

I'm on Full Time Vacation Birdy.... Want some help with the critters ??

[Chopper Reid]

Anyone try Camel Steak??

Camel meat is pretty good if taken off a young camel.

[Resasi]

Flew the Minister of Agriculture in Saudi around for a while. Young camel was sometimes served at functions. Very acceptable.

Birdy with plenty of prime beef around isn't likely to be tempted. Unless of course he happened to be walking out and hadn't come across any of his moos for a while.

[birdy]

I'm on Full Time Vacation Birdy.... Want some help with the critters ??
I just got back from 2 days fixn me east boundery Steve, so yeh, git ya ass over ere n start blastn.
The east side is only 50km long, and every other post was layn on the ground.
I scored 30 odd camels, :) but theres still zillions of um out there. :(

The catch to your 'holiday' Steve is, you gota spend bout a week on the grader cutn a clean line round that side. ;)
You can mount a gattling gun on the roof if you like.

Birdy with plenty of prime beef around isn't likely to be tempted.
Leigh, i blasted bout 15 yesterday before dark, and still had beef n bread last nite.
I only waist time eatn camel if theres no more to be culled.

[John Stahl]

What caliber are you using??
I have a coyote problem and I was thinking of using a 12 gauge from the air.
I will be in ground effect To stay out of FAA jurisdiction.

[Redbaron]

I'm guessing mustering cattle in the outback insn't the most glamorous job. Do you ever pretend like your crocodile dundee, birdy?! Have you ever ran into any aborigines birdy, I heard they eat ferral cats!:D

[birdy]

I'm guessing mustering cattle in the outback insn't the most glamorous job.
Mate, you havent seen me have you. ;)

Do you ever pretend like your crocodile dundee, birdy?!
Why would i lower meself to the level of a glorified bridge painter?
Im not into BS, plastic women, limelites and pretendn im sumone im not.

Have you ever ran into any aborigines birdy, I heard they eat ferral cats!
????????????

[Redbaron]

Nope, I have respect for you though! mate!:peace:

[Redbaron]

When Cats Are Prey
In desperate times, people have been known to resort to cooking and eating cats, as occurred in Argentina in 1996. Cats are also rumored to occasionally be prepared in Cantonese cuisine, but this culture is also well known to prize long haired cats as pets. People also kill cats to produce "medicinal" potions such as Korean "liquid cat", a remedy for joint pain, and for pelts that will be mislabeled as expensive or restricted furs. An Australian veterinarian gives his account . Such potions can be harmful to other people.

This is an especially severe problem with many Asian exports; some traditional medicines sent to the United States are of an unknown animal origin, and clothing and toys are frequently trimmed with cat fur. In 2001, thousands of fur-covered toy cats imported from China to the northeast United States were recalled and destroyed; ironically, they were actually covered with slaughtered cat pelts.

There is an Australian aboriginal desert tribe that hunts the difficult-to-catch feral cat as their secondary source of meat, calling it "bush meat". In reality, eating both cats and dogs is banned in Australia, but may be difficult to enforce. These people believe this cat to be either indigenous or of ancient, non-European origin; however, recent DNA analysis has shown that they are in fact descendants of British shorthairs gone feral.

Sometimes the term "roof-hare" applies to a cat's meat presented as a hare. Subtracting the skin, feet, head and tail, hares and cats are practically identical. The only way to distinguish them is by looking at the processus hamatus of the feline scapula, which should have a processus suprahamatus.

Cats are not an economical source of protein for humans, as they are predators themselves and far more useful at keeping small rodent populations under control. Within nature, when predators suddenly become prey, a serious environmental imbalance is generally to blame

[Redbaron]

I saw one of your youtube videos birdy, yep you are one ugly critter :):puke:

[birdy]

There is an Australian aboriginal desert tribe that hunts the difficult-to-catch feral cat as their secondary source of meat, calling it "bush meat".
Where did ya read that load o crap?!?! ;)

3 posts and you only got one rite.................... the last one. :)

[earthbnd misfit]

Cats are not an economical source of protein for humans, as they are predators themselves and far more useful at keeping small rodent populations under control. Within nature, when predators suddenly become prey, a serious environmental imbalance is generally to blame

The cats caused the imbalance in the first place. And all bush cats are feral. And why catch them, so much easier feeding them a high speed lead breakfast. They destroy mostly birds.

[Papa Smurf]

Birdy,

Check out this link: http://www.camels-for-sale.us/

Humm...

[Redbaron]

A tribe member told me!, were'd u learn to fly like that mate? you seem connected with that aircraft, LIke your part of it! You got some bird in ya :) lol :yo:

[birdy]

Unless they take dried up carcasses Smurf, mine will be stayn were they fall. ;)

A tribe member told me!,
Smazn wot tourists will believe. :)

were'd u learn to fly like that mate?
I dont fly, im just sitn ina machine that hasa mind of its own. :)
[ and sumtimes i think its just tryn to scare me.]

[Redbaron]

Whats your favorite adult beverage in ausee land bird, please tell me it's not fosters lol:eek:

[birdy]

favorite adult beverage
Cool water. ;)

[Fl90]

Sorry for the late reply, haven't been here much. The few I know of have cattle in several states, don't use a computer for recreation, use many many modes for working cattle, and are low profile outside their circle. Attention is not always a good thing. The world is full of ideas of how animals should be treated----withuot the thought of how each of them would like their steak cooked.

Phil

[birdy]

The few I know of have cattle in several states, don't use a computer for recreation, use many many modes for working cattle, and are low profile outside their circle.
IOW, myall. ;)

Attention is not always a good thing.
Why not?
You cant learn much from anyone if you dont have their attention?
Or are they restricted over there same as here, and dont want anyone to know?

The world is full of ideas of how animals should be treated
I know, but thats no reason to stick your head in the sand.
If the one with the ideas dont know jacsh1t, dont listen.................simple.

Im sure theres plenty i could pickup off 'musterers over there. You can never have too many oppinions.

[Fl90]

I believe (=my oppinion) Oz has more use and experience with utility flying, overall, concerning domestic cattle and gyros. Most of the stuff I know of is heli and one gent with a UL that spotted for his crew.

As far as learning.......you don't know you didn't know till you know.........if you have to work at explaining that to someone, then they don't care much about learning what they don't know, anyway. You're public about information, that's all you can do.

Thanks, Phil.

[PW_Plack]

Steve and Birdy mustering together. Now THAT's a video I want!

[birdy]

Most of the stuff I know of is heli and one gent with a UL that spotted for his crew.
Oh, i thought you ment there was blokes over there usen gyros.

you don't know you didn't know till you know.........
Ignorance is bliss, but it shouldnt be an excuse.

Steve and Birdy mustering together.
Snot enuf room on this 1100 squ mile pad for anatha machine Paul. ;)

[bones]

Snot enuf room on this 1100 squ mile pad for anatha machine Paul. ;)

Sniff Sniff, i got feelings you know:boom:

[birdy]

Your rite Bones, you dont take up much room.
Besides, your never ere.

[bones]

Your rite Bones, you dont take up much room.
Besides, your never ere.

I'll be ringin ya soon, that could be changin real soon

[birdy]

I heard the rumer, got me scuds loaded. ;)

BTW, why 2 new manifolds??

Attention is not always a good thing.
Why not?
You cant learn much from anyone if you dont have their attention?
Or are they restricted over there same as here, and dont want anyone to know?
Im assuming Phil hasnt been back yet.

Any of you others gyro nuts use gyro for work, of any kind?
Im interested to hear how others do it.

[C. Beaty]

Birdy, the FAA prohibits “for hire” usage of most homebuilts.

That’s not to say that a rancher couldn’t use a gyro to chase cows as long as he stayed out of FAA regulated, public domain airspace; normally below 500 feet.

But conditions are so different between most of the US and central Australia that comparisons are meaningless. Here in Florida, rainfall runs about 50 inches per year and grass grows year around which allows 300+ cows per square mile.

My cow growing cousin runs about the same number of cows on ~20 square miles as you do on 1100 square miles so there’s not much need for aerial cow chasing. He sometimes hires a helicopter for seeding and the like.

[bones]

I heard the rumer, got me scuds loaded. ;)

BTW, why 2 new manifolds??


Well the postage is the same for 1 or 2, and not much good only having 1 if you got 2 carbs ayy

[PW_Plack]

Birdy, the FAA prohibits “for hire” usage of most homebuilts...That’s not to say that a rancher couldn’t use a gyro to chase cows as long as he stayed out of FAA regulated, public domain airspace...

Chuck, I believe the rancher could use his own gyro to chase his own cows without technically violating anything in the regs. Hair-splitters might argue he'd still be legal if he got paid to chase someone else's cows, provided the contract didn't require him to do it from the air.

People use their experimentals for business trips routinely, even filing IFR flight plans, without running afoul of the rules. There used to be a test applied in which the determining factor was, "could you have made the trip with an automobile?" (Or, in this case, "ute?") If the answer was "yes," it was considered OK, even if the aircraft did it better or faster.

It's not hard to imagine that Birdy might be hired for his experience, with no mention made of any requirement he bring along the ferel or wasa. After all, as he's said before, it's more about knowing the cows than flying.

It's a pretty safe bet you'd violate the terms of any liability insurance policy, including any coverage the client had on his operations, if you did it in the states.

[Fl90]

That covers it.

Chuck, one of the ranchers is just north of one of your cousins areas.

[birdy]

My cow growing cousin runs about the same number of cows on ~20 square miles as you do on 1100 square miles so there’s not much need for aerial cow chasing.
I understand that itd not be needed if you hand feed ya moos on 20 squ miles, but surely sumwhere in the world its gota be abit like it is ere.
In the old days, they used to say a man without a horse has no legs. Its the same now, cept iv upgraded from horses. ;)

[Graeme Monro]

I heard the rumer, got me scuds loaded. ;)


And what rumour would that be, there are so many of them. I should know, I start most of them.
By the way, did you hear about Bones and the visit he got from the ......

Graeme.

[Fl90]

Birdy, I did a little experiment last year, during peak growing season for grass, when we have the most rain, most humidity, the temp stays above hibernation zone, 15 hours of daylight. My fastest breed of grass averaged .060" (1.5 mm) per hour. Yes, you can watch grass grow.

Phil.

[C. Beaty]

Birdy, the desert Southwest in the US has an environment similar to Central Australia but the days of the open range as depicted in Hollywood cowboy movies are gone forever.

With real estate prices being what they are, there’s no economic sense in growing a handful of cows per square mile.

The largest beef cattle operation in the US is that of the Mormon Church in Central Florida with a herd numbering 44,000, including 1600 hard working thoroughbred bulls.

That kind of operation requires fenced in, improved pastures. The cows are rotated from one pasture to another and when they’re finished with one pasture, the gate is opened and the cows herd themselves.

[Heron]

In Mato Grosso they still have remote areas where they drop one cowboy with equipment and food for some time and all he has to connect is a battery radio.
They have a radio show at nigh where families send messages and they hear it but no way to reply.
The giro would be the go to work flying horse and from there they will be on four legs.
Oh, I must mention this: they all have guns! :D they are needed for defense and food.
The Big Ranches do need some areial support.
Heron

[birdy]

Well, it proves ti then.
I am liven a gods life in gods country. :)

[down under]

Try Agentina Birdy, I think they have a lot of cattle there. Not sure how big the place is though.

Heron, labour must be too cheap in Brazil. Sounds like they should be mustering with gyros there.