pusher gyro control structure question

[autogyro]

Greetings Everyone:

For pusher autogyro flight control, such as yaw, pitch, roll control, all those actions are charged by joystick or stick? If the HS and VS are just the stability components?

Regards
Edward

[Alan_Cheatham]

Pitch and roll are controlled by the stick, yaw is controlled by the rudder pedals. The HS has no moving components and is just for stability, the VS is either all moving or partly fixed with a moving rudder, and also provides yaw stability.

[autogyro]

Thanks, Alan Cheatham.
I found both the HS and VS are installed after the propeller, how about install them before propeller, like some fixed wing airplane? would them have the same functions?
I found Sikorsky's X2 helicopter have something like VS and HS before the propeller.

Regards
Edward

[RotoPlane]

I think you and I Edward are traveling down the same basic initial path…..from the ducted fan, to the wing, to the canard. It all makes for an interesting good looking design.

The areas of concern are the canard, which can only be used if you have a wing, a horizontal stab (HS) that has greater lifting moment-arm than the canard (around the CG), and if the rotor does not use a gimbaled head. The canard should only be used for pitch trim. Also for any pitch stabile aircraft, it must have the HS as far aft of the CG as possible or practical and it is even better if it is in the slipstream of the prop. The vertical stab might as well be back with the HS.

[Alan_Cheatham]

I'm curious, unless the canard is under automatic computer control and is acting as a stabilizer what benefit does a canard provide in a gyroplane design?

[brett s]

Seems to me a canard would always be destabilizing in pitch on a gyro or helicopter.

[Alan_Cheatham]

Seems to me a canard would always be destabilizing in pitch on a gyro or helicopter.

That's my thinking and since the statement has been made "a horizontal stab (HS) that has greater lifting moment-arm than the canard (around the CG)", which seems to indicate the HS needs to stabilize the instability of the canard I would like to know what if any benefit the canard provides (other than looking cool).

[RotoPlane]

That's my thinking and since the statement has been made "a horizontal stab (HS) that has greater lifting moment-arm than the canard (around the CG)", which seems to indicate the HS needs to stabilize the instability of the canard I would like to know what if any benefit the canard provides (other than looking cool).

This has been discussed in the past, negatively ;). You are correct Alan, my statement does indicate the HS needs to stabilize the instability of the canard, which is true to some degree. There is no good reason to use a canard with a single seat gyro. However in a tandem configuration where the canard can be loaded; this canard will lift the weight that the rotor now doesn't need to. Without the canard the HS will add load to the rotor, causing more drag and thus less speed for the same power. It should only be used as a pitch trimming device. Keep in mind....it must not be used with gimbal-head rotors.

[Alan_Cheatham]

If the canard is carrying a percentage of the gyros weight that the rotor does not how do you compensate for the loss of canard lift when operating at low speeds and high angles of attack which are typical of a gyro landing flair?

[RotoPlane]

Then the gyro acts like a standard one without a canard and the HS and a bit aft stick take up the slack. The canard is the most useful at cruise where it can do it thing.

[fiveboy]

I by no means have any degree of engineering or aeronautical understanding past that which I get here by osmosis or from practical flight experience.... so I have to ask - unless its at very high speeds, how much real lift could a little canard add to a gyro anyway!??? It seems to me that it might be miniscule and ultimately irrelevant to real lift requirements?

[RotoPlane]

A well designed gyro Robert, will not have a bunch of down load on the HS at cruise. The canard only needs enough area to lift what the HS was adding to the rotor load. But as I alluded to above, the canard should only be used on "advanced rotor designs" where the cruise speeds can be higher....not on the gimbal-head type of rotors. Again….this is my opinion, which I believe is absolute irrefutable fact ;).

[autogyro]

[QUOTE=RotoPlane;312902]I think you and I Edward are traveling down the same basic initial path…..from the ducted fan, to the wing, to the canard. It all makes for an interesting good looking design. QUOTE]

Ed, you said right,waht you siad answered me! thanks.
I just want to design this kind gyro.But, it seems hopeless.

[RotoPlane]

I just want to design this kind gyro.But, it seems hopeless.

The important thing Edward is that you are designing first....not building and hoping it flies safely. A "new" design usually ends up with many compromises to the original idea. Chances are, someone else has already thought of and perhaps tried what you want to do and I'll bet they made a bunch of compromises too. If you keep learning about gyro aerodynamics you may end up with a different design that will work well and you will still be satisfied with……..