The Predator is down!

[Vance]

Yesterday, Friday, after Ed and I flew to San Luis Obispo for breakfast all the flying we have done in the high winds caught up with us. We hit a particularly big shear over the riverbed on the way home. We were cruising along at 65kts indicated airspeed and it spun us around 35 degrees. The landing at the airport took full rudder.

We wanted to go flying first thing Saturday so I was doing a complete pre-flight as a post flight inspection.

I found a small crack in the tube that runs along the back of the rudder. It was not quite through the tube but it was heading that way. The fabric and glue were still holding everything together. The fabric was beginning to crack through the paint.

I have ordered a kit to practice fabric covering from Aircraft Spruce and it should be here Tuesday or Wednesday.

Please everyone, learn from this experience, touching, feeling and flexing is an important part of the Pre-Flight inspection. I would not have found it just by looking. Looking made me touch, touching made me flex the tail and it was weaker one way than the other. This allowed me to find the problem on the ground.

I found it hard to attack the fabric with a knife; Mark did such a nice job. I cut out a rectangle on both sides about three inches by six inches so it shouldn’t be hard to fix.

A friend of mine, Dennis, welded a doubler and two gussets on the crack to spread out the loads. I will try to get a picture before we cover it.

A friend of mine at the airport, Phil, is going to help me with the fabric work as soon as the kit comes in. I hope to have her flying by Thursday.

The Predator is just short of 600 hours on her now.

There were big winds again today so it is probably good that we didn’t fly. We drove up the Paso Robles for the drive/fly in at the Estrella War Bird museum. The drive to San Louis Obispo was very different than the flight the morning before. I love my car, but it is just not the same.

It was very hot in Paso Robles so our takeoff would have probably been marginal.

I may have stumbled on an IO-320 Lycoming, freshly rebuilt for not much money and payments to replace the O-290-G that is in her now. A slightly larger Prince prop is about three months out so it won’t happen till the end of July, but my numbers say that with a 72 inch prop and 160 horsepower my thrust numbers should go up 20%. I feel this will allow me to get into trouble that is outside of my reach now. Mark said to me once that he probably should have put a 320 on it. This should translate into performance with Ed in the back better than what I have now solo. I will have to raise the engine three inches and raise the upper tail support but I think it will be fun to have the extra power. It is still a conical mount engine but it has the higher compression. We shall see.

Thank you, Vance

[gyrodrifter]

Yesterday, Friday, after Ed and I flew to San Luis Obispo for breakfast all the flying we have done in the high winds caught up with us. We hit a particularly big shear over the riverbed on the way home. We were cruising along at 65kts indicated airspeed and it spun us around 35 degrees. The landing at the airport took full rudder.

We wanted to go flying first thing Saturday so I was doing a complete pre-flight as a post flight inspection.

I found a small crack in the tube that runs along the back of the rudder. It was not quite through the tube but it was heading that way. The fabric and glue were still holding everything together. The fabric was beginning to crack through the paint.

I have ordered a kit to practice fabric covering from Aircraft Spruce and it should be here Tuesday or Wednesday.

Please everyone, learn from this experience, touching, feeling and flexing is an important part of the Pre-Flight inspection. I would not have found it just by looking. Looking made me touch, touching made me flex the tail and it was weaker one way than the other. This allowed me to find the problem on the ground.

I found it hard to attack the fabric with a knife; Mark did such a nice job. I cut out a rectangle on both sides about three inches by six inches so it shouldn’t be hard to fix.

A friend of mine, Dennis, welded a doubler and two gussets on the crack to spread out the loads. I will try to get a picture before we cover it.

A friend of mine at the airport, Phil, is going to help me with the fabric work as soon as the kit comes in. I hope to have her flying by Thursday.

The Predator is just short of 600 hours on her now.

There were big winds again today so it is probably good that we didn’t fly. We drove up the Paso Robles for the drive/fly in at the Estrella War Bird museum. The drive to San Louis Obispo was very different than the flight the morning before. I love my car, but it is just not the same.

It was very hot in Paso Robles so our takeoff would have probably been marginal.

I may have stumbled on an IO-320 Lycoming, freshly rebuilt for not much money and payments. A slightly larger Prince prop is about three months out so it won’t happen till the end of July, but my numbers say that with a 72 inch prop and 160 horsepower my thrust numbers should go up 20%. I feel this will allow me to get into trouble that is outside of my reach now. Mark said to me once that he probably should have put a 320 on it. This should translate into performance with Ed in the back better than what I have now solo. I will have to raise the engine three inches and raise the upper tail support but I think it will be fun to have the extra power. It is still a conical mount engine but it has the higher compression. We shall see.

Thank you, Vance

Well Vance....,

It is good to see that you are proof that your non assuming inspection methods work!

I have seen the results of a few "missed" problem starters and "in plain view" but totally overlooked or misunderstood potential killers which I always felt could and should have been noticed with a more careful reflective inspection approach.

More than a few times the reason people ended up picking grass from between their teeth or swimming with clothes on or worse, was because they fell into a dangerous and unacceptable routine, trusting in the reliabilty of their planes over time, taking for granted a 100% the condition of their craft as they remembered it a "few" days ago.

Glad you are not one of them.

Stay alert,
Regards, John.

[StanFoster]

Vance- You are so thorough and meticulous with you pre-flights. Its why you caught this on the ground like it should have been. A person needs to find stuff once in awhile to keep them on their toes. But with you Vance.... I feel your preflights would be the same meticulous checkovers 10 years from now even if you never found anything wrong. I will try to use you as an example when I resume my pre-flights again. Stan

[reelmule]

Good pick up, Vance. A lesson here for all who fly.

[Vance]

Thank you John, it is easy to get complacent because I generally don’t find anything and The Predator seems very well built. I also maintain her a lot.

Because she is the only one I am the test program. I take that responsibility seriously.

I have been involved in motorcycle test programs and I have missed the beginning of something more than once.

I have been a technical inspector for racing and it is remarkable what an extra pair of eyes can find and an extra imagination can imagine.

Thank you Stan,

Monty is my pre-flight hero; he was the one who found bearing parts on the Predator’s rotor head. I had missed it for the grease and dirt.

It does take discipline and without my checklists I would miss checking things. If I get interrupted I start over again.

I used to drive my Helicopter instructor crazy, I never found anything and I never got the preflight inspection for a Robinson 44 below 45 minutes. He used to open his place up early so we could get a start before the winds came up. There are so many systems on a helicopter; a gyroplane seems like a vacation.

Thank you Walt,

I was lucky to find it. The glue held it so tight that it was very hard to find.

I feel it would have not been a catastrophic failure because I would have just lost control of about half of the rudder and the large vertical stabilizer would help to keep her straight.

In my opinion even if a part had come off it was light enough and soft enough to where it could have gone through the rotor without damage. The entire rudder weighs just over three pounds.

I feel I could lose all of the fabric and structure of the rudder and still land into the wind.

I am pleased that I didn’t have to test my feelings.

I missed having lunch with some friends at the airport the other day because of my long pre-flights and slow airspeed. They were just leaving San Louis Obispo when I showed up and I took a little ribbing.

I showed them what I had found Friday and they said to fly it anyway. They were more somber after I cut it open and found how far along the crack was.

I feel fortunate to have so many friends to help me on my aviation adventure.

Thank you, Vance

[Vance]

I guess you all can tell that I have nothing to fly.

Winds are 250 degrees at 9kts 20 degrees C. AAARRRGGG!!!

I am going to have the mother’s day experience with Ed and the kids later, but for now I want to fly!

Before someone suggests it I have already thought of the 100 mile per hour duct tape and rejected it.

I think I will go hang out at SMX and hanger fly or catch a ride with someone.


Thank you, Vance

[ckurz7000]

Hang in there, Vance, you'll be in the air soon enough. Pat yourself on the shoulder for having found a real problem during your preflight check. It will go a long way toward making your future checks so much the more thorough.

Greetings, -- Chris.

[fiveboy]

Good for you Vance. Preflite is where to spot the problems, not after they decide to announce themselves in the air. I was drilled by Chris about it and now its as rewarding to me as flying (well ok thats not true but it helps me enjoy the flying more!).

[scott heger]

Vance, always remember gyro flying is only a sport. It is not like you are under any pressure to fly because you are going to loose your job if you don't. However, flying with a less than safe gyro, might mean missing that lunch with friends........forever.

I know you have towed that gyro all over the West. Towing and tying down a gyro to a trailer can really beat some of the parts up.

Always remember my sign-off quote...."you are only as good as your last flight"

Scott Heger,Laguna Niguel,Ca N86SH

[Vance]

Hello Scott,

You and Jim Mayfield are aligned on this.

He is always asking me what my compelling reason to fly is.

When I find time to go flying I find it difficult to give up because of a little weather.

I am still adjusting to aviation and I am trying to understand my limitations.

Although I often don’t fly because of too much wind or rain, I still find it difficult to put her back in the hanger. I was hoping this would get better with time. It has not.

As my skills improve it is hard for me to recognize my limitations. I suffer from building experience without an incident so it is hard to recognize where the edges are.

As to the broken tube, I have not had the Predator on the trailer in quite a while.

The tail has a double tube that runs down the middle of the rudder and diagonals that run to these middle tubes. When I imagine the wind pressing against the tail when I have full rudder in, where it broke is where the tail stops being stiff as the wind tries to bend the rudder at the upper and lower corners. The structure goes from being stiff where the double tube and diagonals join to the single tube a little suddenly and this can lead to the type of failure that I found. The bent plate and gussets we added spreads this localized stress and we are hopeful it will not fail again. We tacked them in place so as to not create a new stress riser.

Hopefully my fabric kit will be here Tuesday afternoon and I will be back in the air on Wednesday.

At 5:51 Local time, the weather at SMX is wind, 120 degrees at 3kts and 7.2C with visibility at 5 miles because the morning mist is burning off. AAARRRGGG!!! I am off to work instead of exercising my passion for flying.

Thank you, Vance

[Doug Riley]

Good catch, Vance.

You may just find that fabric work is fun. The results are very visible, and so you get instant gratification. Like fiberglass, this medium is almost infinitely repairable if (what's left of) the underlying material is sound.

Enjoy this little repair job. Tinkering can be pleasant, too -- once you resign yourself to a bit of down time.

[NoWingsAttached]

Can i see a photo of the gyro please?

[Vance]

Thank you Doug, luck had a lot to do with catching it.

I am looking forward to the repair. I have been to several seminars on fabric covering and I liked it. A friend of mine is going to help me through the process. Several friends have offered help.

The experience just adds to the romance of flying.

Hello Gerg,

Here is a recent picture of the Predator before the damage.

Thank you, Vance

[WaspAir]

At the risk of sounding like a "preachy" CFI, I suggest that we approach pre-flights and traffic spotting with a similar attitude. Too many of the pilots I've seen are the type who give a cursory look for airworthiness problems and for other aircraft while not really expecting to see any of either.

On your preflight, start out with the idea "I know there's something wrong here; I need to find it." If you don't find it after seriously trying, go fly.

While looking for traffic, start out with "I know there's somebody out there; I'd better figure out where". If you can't spot him after seriously looking, continue your course.

[MarkG]

Thank you John, it is easy to get complacent because I generally don’t find anything and The Predator seems very well built. I also maintain her a lot.

Because she is the only one I am the test program. I take that responsibility seriously.

I have been involved in motorcycle test programs and I have missed the beginning of something more than once.

I have been a technical inspector for racing and it is remarkable what an extra pair of eyes can find and an extra imagination can imagine.

Thank you Stan,

Monty is my pre-flight hero; he was the one who found bearing parts on the Predator’s rotor head. I had missed it for the grease and dirt.

It does take discipline and without my checklists I would miss checking things. If I get interrupted I start over again.

I used to drive my Helicopter instructor crazy, I never found anything and I never got the preflight inspection for a Robinson 44 below 45 minutes. He used to open his place up early so we could get a start before the winds came up. There are so many systems on a helicopter; a gyroplane seems like a vacation.

Thank you Walt,

I was lucky to find it. The glue held it so tight that it was very hard to find.

I feel it would have not been a catastrophic failure because I would have just lost control of about half of the rudder and the large vertical stabilizer would help to keep her straight.

In my opinion even if a part had come off it was light enough and soft enough to where it could have gone through the rotor without damage. The entire rudder weighs just over three pounds.

I feel I could lose all of the fabric and structure of the rudder and still land into the wind.

I am pleased that I didn’t have to test my feelings.

I missed having lunch with some friends at the airport the other day because of my long pre-flights and slow airspeed. They were just leaving San Louis Obispo when I showed up and I took a little ribbing.

I showed them what I had found Friday and they said to fly it anyway. They were more somber after I cut it open and found how far along the crack was.

I feel fortunate to have so many friends to help me on my aviation adventure.

Thank you, Vance

Vance good catch!! but it could have been Very catastrophic! If it had failed it could have produced flutter!! That could have torn the whole tail off! Also besides cross wind landing loads putting alot of stress on the Rudder you also have the airflow from the prop trying to twist the tail off.

FYI the tail was covered using the full Stits (Poly-Fiber) process. The fabric used was the Medium weight. Then Poly Brushed, then a Certi-fill silver UV Barrier followed by automotive enamel paint. The paint was a 98 or 99 Ford Truck white if I remember correctly. Gary shot the paint on the tail surfaces.

Mark.....

[Vance]

Thank you Mark, the Stits kit is what I ordered from Aircraft Spruce. It should be here today or Wednesday. Knowing the paint color helps.

The airflow over the prop has damaged the paint at the top on one side of the vertical stabilizer and on the bottom half on the other. The cracking makes something like this hard to see. I was fortunate to find it.

I think that this crack may have its beginnings in my rotor strike. The pre-rotator failed at Oceano, L52, and I was trying to get the blades up to speed when I hit the big bump from an earthquake half way down the somewhat short strip, 2,329’ X 50’, and I hit the rudder once with the rotor. I straightened out the rudder, installed a new starter motor and flew home. This happened around 200 hours and she has around 580 hours on her now. The straightening process may have damaged the tube although the bends were well above where it broke.

Thank you again for building such a beautiful machine. I have had very few maintenance challenges. I am getting better at flying and caring for her. I am having more fun than I ever imagined. Edna loves her too.

Thank you, Vance

[Arnie Madsen]

At the risk of sounding like a "preachy" CFI, I suggest that we approach pre-flights and traffic spotting with a similar attitude. Too many of the pilots I've seen are the type who give a cursory look for airworthiness problems and for other aircraft while not really expecting to see any of either.

On your preflight, start out with the idea "I know there's something wrong here; I need to find it." If you don't find it after seriously trying, go fly.

While looking for traffic, start out with "I know there's somebody out there; I'd better figure out where". If you can't spot him after seriously looking, continue your course.
You have said it very well WaspAir. Thank you.

[Vance]

I have been trying to learn more about fabric covering and repair.

My learn to cover kit arrived on Wednesday.

I learned that epoxy paint is the only thing to use for corrosion protection under fabric. My book explained that the glue will lift any other kind of paint. I suspect that powder coat would work too.

Because I was just repairing a small hole, powder coat was out.

I went to the paint store and got some two part white epoxy primer.

Friday was my day to work on the repair.

I filed the tack welds and patch down as much as I could and then worked at cleaning off the white enamel off of the surface that the patch would go over.

I applied the epoxy paint and it was a learning process. It did not go off like I thought it should. It dried more like regular paint.

Then I applied the adhesive, worked the patch on one side, applied more adhesive on the other side and stuck the patch down. It is not straight so I ended up with some wrinkles. I am not sure how that is going to work out.

Then it was time for the first coat of the red stuff, they have cute names for everything that I don’t remember, Polly this and Polly that. Tomorrow I will do the second coat of the red stuff and then a couple of coats of the silver.

I hope to install the rudder and go flying.

When I get back, if it is warm enough, I will apply the first coat of Ford white.

The first picture is the patch with a coat of epoxy primer. I tried to take a Stan picture with a finger pointing at the crack but you couldn’t see it. The doubler is clear and the fish mouthed gusset. I hope this will stop it from cracking again.

The second picture is the area cleaned off and ready for the patch.

The third picture is how I left it tonight with one coat of the red stuff.

When I left the airport at 7:30 winds were at 300 degrees at 7kts. What a lovely evening to fly. AAARRRGGG!!!

More to come.

Thank you, Vance

[Vance]

I also talked to the shop with the IO-320 B1A today and we have a deal pending funding. The shop is working on an STC for cylinders that they are making and he needs 600 hours on an experimental aircraft. They have to take it apart and inspect the cylinders and crank at 300 hours and 600 hours. The engine is completely rebuilt and has been measured at 168 horsepower. It has conical mounts, new magnetos and a rebuilt fuel injection. It has the hydraulic lifters and 8.5 to 1 compression. As far as I can tell it doesn’t leak oil out of anywhere and they are going to include a hydraulic pump drive for my pre-rotator so I can replace the electric starter/pre-rotator that she has now.

I hope to get a composite 72 inch Prince P-Tip prop. Unfortunately delivery is three months out. I need to raise the engine 3 inches and raise the tail support a couple of inches for it to fit. This is no small job.

My quick calculations suggest that I will have 19% more thrust.

I have some plans to clean up the aerodynamics and put a 5 inch nose wheel on her with trailing link front suspension. She is ridged in front now with a 4 inch nose wheel.

It makes me nervous messing with Mark’s art. He did tell me that he should have put a O-320 in it though.

I want more power, a shorter take off and a higher practical ceiling when I am flying Ed with full tanks.

Thank you, Vance

[Vance]

By 4:00 PM we had the repair on the rudder to silver, and we reinstalled the rudder.

Grease, bushings, bolts, nuts, cotter pins, lock tight, cables and stops were all correctly placed and functioning.

Winds were 290 degrees at 7kts. It was 72F, 22 degrees C, so we determined that after my mechanical check out flight Ed and I would fly off to San Louis Obispo for a dinner at The Spirit of San Louis restaurant. This was our first flight since I found the crack in the rudder Friday before last after out last flight to San Louis Obispo.

There was a kind of mystical mist out over the beach and it was lovely.

The beach was at a very high tied and all the people from Bakersfield were crowded together on the narrow band of sand. An engine out would have been difficult to manage because of all the people milling around.

The owner of the Spirit of San Louis saw us land and put our regular drinks on our table before we were even through the door.

I felt funny flying with the big unfinished repair on the rudder, but we got over it.

We have one more coat of silver, then a little sanding and Ford White enamel. We are hoping to get her finished before we fly to the Watsonville fly in next weekend.

A couple of pictures of the partially repaired, reinstalled rudder.

Thank you, Vance

[JEFF TIPTON]

Vance it looks like you are learning new skills and the repair looks good. Fabric work is not as difficult as many believe, but it is like working fiberglass, mostly preparation. Is more of a forgotten art than science.

[okikuma]

Hi Vance,

Nice repair job. I've always liked to do fabric work. I learned the art from a good friend, Peter Bishop, when I helped him recover the wings on a Russian AN-2 Colt Bi-plane that was then owned by Northrup Aircraft.

Glad to read that you maybe installing an O-320 Lycoming on the Preditor. I personally think you should also use an IVO prop with the O-320. That way, you can dial in the best prop pitch angle for the best performance. Consider that option.

Glad to see you back in the air,

Wayne

[Vance]

Thank you Jeff and Wayne, the more I learned about fabric the more I didn’t like it. Everyone that stopped by the hanger had a different opinion about how it should be done and most of the advice was in conflict with the book. I don’t handle conflict well and as the conflict intensified it was hard to get people to stop talking so I could focus on the process. Closing the hanger door was not an option because of ventilation. Our hanger is at one of the main entrances to the airport and at one of the cross roads so it seemed everyone had to stop by and offer their expertise as to what I was doing incorrectly.

I still need to sand the silver and paint the color. It looks much better than I expected it too several times during the process but it still looks untidy to me. I also didn’t like how hard it was to identify the problem of the cracked tube.

The engine has new everything and the price and relationship with the shop is alluring. It has been run for initial tests and it doesn’t leak oil out of anywhere I can see.

We went flying yesterday in a 10kt wind with a density altitude of less than 2,200 feet and even though the lift off waited till I had an indicated airspeed of 45kts climb out was slow enough that we both decided not to land at Santa Ynez or Oceano because of the shorter length of the runways at those airports. We were climbing out at less than 100 feet per minute. I kept the power at 2,550 rpm and flew between 50kts and 55kts and only climbed to a little over 2,000 feet in an hour and a half of flying. My Annual is due in June so it will be good to see how my leak down is. I am coming up on 600 hours of hard intermittent use over ten years and it is possible the engine is a little tired. I think I have been spoiled by the cool weather and as I build experience I may want more reserve.

In the Predator’s defense, we hit the same sink a third of the way down the runway when we landed and she flew much better near the fog. It was a hot day and it didn’t get cooler at 2,000 feet.

We feel the lust for power.

The Ivo prop was my first choice because of the time delay for the Prince P-tip, but I have heard of trouble with movement of the blades on the four cylinder Lycoming engine installed in a pusher. All of the problems I have heard of are on a 360. Has anybody heard anything about this? The adjustable feature would be nice as I clean up the aerodynamics on the Predator one detail at a time.

This will delay the start of building a gyroplane from scratch by more than a year. I feel it will be a useful learning experience. I don’t feel at all comfortable sawing up such a beautiful machine.

On the other hand it will allow me to test out one thing at a time so it will be easier to learn.

Thank you, Vance

[Aviomania]

I am glad your on the air again!!!!

Working with fabric is fun. when sticking the fabric you have to try to "push all the wrinkles on the fabric that is not stuck on the old one. That way you can "IRON" out the wrinkles on the fabric that is not stuck anywhere.

Another trick i use (and its not in the book) i apply the glue were it has to stick and let it dry. I repeat the process several times so i have a build up of glue. Then i apply the patch and with a brush i apply thinners ON TOP of the patch. that reactivates the glue under the patch and sticks it quickly. I use my fingers (wearing gloves of course) to flatten any wrinkles. After all the patch is glued i brush a couple of thinned Glue cotes on top of the glued area. It works fine.

you can also use an iron set to 200-250 to iron wrinkles on glued areas.

[PW_Plack]

...the more I learned about fabric the more I didn’t like it...

Vance, I'd definitely follow the instructions from the manufacturer. The accumulated "wisdom" of passersby is the worst kind of committee. You'll wear out the stop pin on your BS meter!

I've seen fabric used to great result in two very different circumstances...to create an extremely beautiful, colorful finished product which would have been more difficult with other skin fabrication techniques at one extreme, and to create a very easy-to-repair covering where frequent or rapid repairs might be expected in the other case.

The two Aeronca Champs in which I learned to fly were taildraggers, and both were being flown over 1,000 hours a year, mostly by low-time pilots. They would occasionally wind up with scuffed-up wingtips or other minor damage. Because they were tube-and-fabric, they could be repaired quickly, and never spent too long in the shop. The repairs were structurally and aerodynamically sound, but not always beautiful.

In other cases, I've seen restorers and homebuilders build gorgeous skins in bright colors using fabric. It seems to be a great way for homebuilders to cover a basic metal tube frame with repeatable results.

[RockyMeLad]

Lookin' good, Mr. Vance.

I generally second Paul's recommendation. Although for some glues, Nicolas' technique appears sound. A simple test on a sample with your process would be in prudent though.

[Aviomania]

Lookin' good, Mr. Vance.

I generally second Paul's recommendation. Although for some glues, Nicolas' technique appears sound. A simple test on a sample with your process would be in prudent though.

Rocky,
I have used this technique for the last 5 years, covering from fuselages, elevators, wings, etc, and it is faster and easier.

the only thing is to know your glues and there limitations. for example.... minimum (structural) overlap for "polytack" is 2" and for "superseam" is 4"

[Passin' Thru]

Rocky,
I have used this technique for the last 5 years, covering from fuselages, elevators, wings, etc, and it is faster and easier.

the only thing is to know your glues and there limitations. for example.... minimum (structural) overlap for "polytack" is 2" and for "superseam" is 4"

I have used this technique with great sucess on two old Pipers I restored. In some critical areas after applying a heavy coat of adhesive on the structure, I would thin the adhisive way down and work it in into the fabric. Works like a charm! :D

[Vance]

Thank you all for the kind words of encouragement and for sharing your experience.

I was trying not to re-invent Stits Poly-Fiber Fabric System.

The instructions are often ambiguous and I re-read them often.

I was pleased with the outcome.

Thank you, Vance