Vortech Blades: has anyone flown them or know someone that has?

[animal]

Ok here's the deal,still not sure about how good they are.
but the Scorpion project I just picked up has the Vortech extruded blades.
has anyone here flown these type blades on a gyro or heli,or am I the test rodent again..?
main thing that concerns me is fatuige,yeah I know I probably did not spell that right.
they are very slick blades,but I have always wondered how will they hold up in the long run over years,any thoughts on this.
:confused:

[quadrirotor]

Check the type of aluminium you have, could be not adapted to helicopter use (short lifespan...) you can verify also with the Europeen builder of this kind of blade:

http://aircopter.chez.tiscali.fr/blade.htm

[joeheli]

There are solid Aluminum blade. I just order a pair 2 weeks ago for my gyro.
These blades are manufactured as a single extrusion—without seams, rivets or bonding of any kind—of high-strength aluminum. They are difficult to flap. This are "Fleck" rotorblade. They have the same airfoil of the Mccutchen blade the only diference is that ther are not composive like Mccutchen blade.

About their life expectancy, they say that, in practical use, the rotor blades should provide at least 1,000 and up to about 2,000 hours of flight. At a modest cruise speed of 65 mph, this equates to between 65,000 and 130,000 miles of flight—that is, around 22 to 44 coast-to-coast fights across the continental U.S. :eek: ! However, actual blade life depends on many factors, encompassing environmental, mechanical, load and rpm, etc. Every flight must be preceded by preflight checks of the blades (and all other systems), and at least every 250 hours an A&P should assess blade condition.

[scottessex]

Joe, are you going to make your own hub bar? You'll have to let us know how well they work.

[GyroRon]

Tim aka Animal..... Why in the world do you want to toy around with those old helicopters? Don't you want to fly? Sell them and buy you a nice gyro!!!!

[Chuck Irby]

Scott, the only problem with your suggestion is that Jose won't have any DW's to compare them to. :D

I wonder if the thickness will allow the use of a DW hub bar. I should have a pile of them in the barn. Got any idea what a 1' DW hub bar is worth? :D

PS, Does anyone know if the extruded blades have any twist in them?

[Vance]

Hi Chuck, acording to their lititure they have no twist. I have seen them at their warehouse and they looked very nice and they have a nice artical about them on their websight. I have no idea how they work. Thank you, Vance

[animal]

Tim aka Animal..... Why in the world do you want to toy around with those old helicopters? Don't you want to fly? Sell them and buy you a nice gyro!!!!
Well Ron several reasons I like the helicopters.
#1: I came across a heck of a find. was able to trade my Harley for 2 Scorpion projects and a bunch of spare parts.I can always build another Harley.

#2 the old scorpions where under powered, this one has a 162 rotorway exec engine with it,so power won't be a problem.

#3 it has brand new blades and new updated rotorhead.

#4 gyro instruction cost out the butt, and i would have to travel to take lessons,My business partner is a Helicopter C.F.I. and I already have several hours in a hughes 269-A
#5 I also I have some things I want to try out on a scorpions rotor system. I will let ya'll know more about these Ideas later. but has to do with my own swashplate design.

and last but not least,I like a 2 seat aircraft that is inclosed. and we all know what the cost of an enclosed Gyro is. not to mention it is fun just to master hovering and air taxi flight in the back yard. to me just mastering the helicopter is a thrill.
there are a lot of upgrades for the rotorway helicopters I have just learned about that are being done to both the exec's and the older Scorpions,things like the prodrive system that replaces the heavy drive chain with a big cog belt, elastomeric bearings in the rotorhead, composite rotors,it takes some doing but the old Scorpions can be made into a nice machine. I picked up a video tape of Homer bells helicopter fly in in Ohio, and they show a few updated Scorpions flying very well. now to see if i can make mine fly as well, I know I have the power, 162 h.p. water cooled, dual ignition,and a lighter weight then the exec,so I can't wait to see how this will work out.
and besides they look cool! always wanted one from the day I first saw them. had several projects but could not find the parts I needed,so this is my chance to see if i can make one fly. or at least beat the air to death....lol
but back to the topic of this thread, still wondering how these Vortech blades will work out.they are heavyer then the standard Scorpion blades,this could be good or it could be bad, only time will tell.

[animal]

Scott, the only problem with your suggestion is that Jose won't have any DW's to compare them to. :D

I wonder if the thickness will allow the use of a DW hub bar. I should have a pile of them in the barn. Got any idea what a 1' DW hub bar is worth? :D

PS, Does anyone know if the extruded blades have any twist in them?
the blades I have do not have any twist.

[Vance]

Hi Timothy, You might find the information on the NTSB accident data base interesting. There have been 61 accidents of home built helicopters since 1999 and 55 of them were from Rotorway. There are some Scorpians represented even though they didn't sell very many of them. I know from personal experance that many home built helicopter accidents are not reported. I think that you will find the causes interesting. A great deal was due to limited pilot experence. There is not a lot of difference between the basic layout of any of the Rotorway Helicopters. This is not ment to discourage, only make you more aware of what you are getting into. Thank You, Vance
Ps. Gary G had a very nice Brantly for sale at Mentone for a little over $50,000 including instruction to solo.

[animal]

Hi Timothy, You might find the information on the NTSB accident data base interesting. There have been 61 accidents of home built helicopters since 1999 and 55 of them were from Rotorway. There are some Scorpians represented even though they didn't sell very many of them. I know from personal experance that many home built helicopter accidents are not reported. I think that you will find the causes interesting. A great deal was due to limited pilot experence. There is not a lot of difference between the basic layout of any of the Rotorway Helicopters. This is not ment to discourage, only make you more aware of what you are getting into. Thank You, Vance
Ps. Gary G had a very nice Brantly for sale at Mentone for a little over $50,000 including instruction to solo.

ok thanks I will check out those reports, for some reason the scorpions had a high rate of rolling over when hovering,would be intresting to find out why. they say the elastomeric head make all the differance, but all the elastomeric part is ,is the bearing in the blade pitch blocks,I think the real key is that the swashplates work like a conventional helicopter,where the swashplate moves up and down and flys the blades, where as the cable head flys the rotorhead.
when i get this bird up and running I plan on doing some tests with that therory, I had a swashplate control design I worked out one time before that that would convert the stock swashplate to rise up and down and fly the blades,I use this design on my own designed helicopter and the blades controled fine, just could not get those big agusta 109 blades to balance right and had spragg clutch problems.
since I have a spare rotorshaft and swashplate, i am going to play with this idea some,worse case I can go back to the cable head.

[Friendly]

Chuck, I have a set of vortec blades. They have been modified to take the dragonwing hub bar. The blades had to have special shims installed to give them the flat surface for the straps and then shim are added to the bar to get the right pitch. I guess if you know someone with a machine shop and the expertise you could get that barn cleaned out.
SEE YOU AT BASTROP FLYIN , one more week, GOD WILLING

[Chuck Irby]

Timothy, Vance & Mark, thanks for the information, guys. I appreciate it.

Mark, based on your reply, it sounds like it might take some doing to get them set up properly. Or is it not really that difficult with the stuff supplied with the blades? On their web site, they make it sound pretty easy.

Is anyone flying the extruded blades yet?

[GyroRon]

I don't mean to pee on your parade Tim. If you are happy then that is all that matters. I don't know you well, but know you well enough to know Helicopters are what excites you.

I know with time and money - all those upgrades are not cheap!!! - you can get her flying. And if your helicopter CFI friend is comfortable with your machine you might get lucky and get free lessons - if he isn't comfortable with it then hold on to your hat because at the least you would be paying rental on a normal helicopter for him to teach you in and those are not cheap either! -

I see all too many times people that have the dream of flying a helicopter buy these old rotorways and tinker and tinker and at the most the learn to hover them all over the farm. But not once have I seen one of the older ones flying out of ground effect and going somewhere. If that is all you end up doing and your happy then I am happy! I myself would just like to be in the air period. A two place gyro is not cheap no doubt about it, but I doubt by the time you make your new helicopter safe for flight it isn't going to be anhy cheaper. You buy a two place gyro and instruction is no more than 2 hour drive from you.

[Brent_Brown]

I fly the blades on my gyro. I use a skywheel hub bar. It was not hard at all to set up but I guess if you use the strap type bar it can be harder to do. I like the way they fly and hand start. I want to get another set but the price now is more then they are worth I think.

[quadrirotor]

If there is no patent on this product, you know what can be done!!! this kind of blades can be suited for low power cold air tip-jets...

[rfi]

Neal Carnes who owns Rotor Hawk bought out the Fleck blade business from Vortek.
He offers complete rotor systems with hub bar with built in coning angle and non adjustable or adjustable pitch.
You can reach Rotor Hawk at NealFalcon@aol.com.

[animal]

Neal Carnes who owns Rotor Hawk bought out the Fleck blade business from Vortek.
He offers complete rotor systems with hub bar with built in coning angle and non adjustable or adjustable pitch.
You can reach Rotor Hawk at NealFalcon@aol.com.

Don I was wondering about that, as a set we got for a freind had rotorhawk on the box. btw Don,do you know anyone flying them on helicopters and how are they holding up? the ones I have look slick and balanced real nicely.
In fact the guy I sold my TH-135 Dusty 2 bought a set and we put on the Dusty2, and they balanced almost perfectly right off the bat. we did a few run up tests with them and it was real smooth,but since it was like 10 degees in pa. we did not do much else. one thing we learned is if it is freezing the spar will not go into the blade with out damageing the blade. on one blade it bubbled the outer skin ,we did get it replaced with out a problem.I have not heard anything from the guy I sold the Dusty2 prototype to in a few months. he was supposed to go get some helicopter training.