Question about cluster plates, why does StarBee have 2 separate ones?

[KDOG]

On their website, they have 2 sets of cluster plates - one for the single mast(which I'm using) and one for the redundant mast. Does anyone know why? Are they different? Will the plates shown in the documentation work with the single mast?

[RayPierce]

On their website, they have 2 sets of cluster plates - one for the single mast(which I'm using) and one for the redundant mast. Does anyone know why? Are they different? Will the plates shown in the documentation work with the single mast?
My GyroBee has two sets of cluster plates.
One set is for the mast and keels.
The other set is for the nose gear and keel assembly.

[KDOG]

No, they have 2 different listings for the mast/keel...one for single mast and another for redundant...

[RayPierce]

No, they have 2 different listings for the mast/keel...one for single mast and another for redundant...

I made my own from stainless.
Everyone seems to recommend the redundant mast. In my own experience I have yet to hear of a mast failure.
That is, unless there was some outside force such as a blade strike or rollover.
I think it is a personal choice with what you feel comfortable with using.

Maybe someone else has a comment.

How about you other Gyrobees???

[Dale Young]

I believe it was Doug Riley that told me that he had once heard of someone who had broken a mast in the air, but made it safely to the ground due to the redundent side still intact. It just makes me feel a little better!

[KDOG]

I find that hard to believe, if one broke I doubt the other would be able to instantly take the load. What was the guys name? Besides the numbers don't lie - the single mast is stronger....
Also there has NOT been a report of a single mast failing, so if your story is true, its proof the the redudant mast is inferior!!! :D

[Brent_Brown]

IF the wall is 1/8 on the 2 1x2 mast then the bolt hole the be to far apart for the 3/16 tube wall so plates are made for each type not hard to see why.

[Brian Jackson]

As a by-product, it will also affect the length/hole locations of the Fuel Tank Diagonal Struts (see dwg. G7-5 on Ralph's plans). If the cluster plate holes are moved, then the Diagonal Tank Struts hole needs to be relocated accordingly, otherwise the mount will not be perpendicular to the mast.

[KDOG]

But the pictures of the cluster plates for the single mast over at StarBee look exactly the same as the ones listed in Ralphs plans...I'm going to call and ask them, then report back.

[Brian Jackson]

Kevin,
To the eye they will look identical. The distance between the 2 vertical rows of holes is only 1/8" difference (1/16" each side), such that the holes maintain their 1/32" clearance from the inside walls of the tube.

[KDOG]

OK!!! Heres the deal...I just called StarBee and talked to someone (might have been Dana) and the reason there are two different plates is because the wall thickness of the single mast is greater so some holes have to be closer IN than with the redundant mast. Also, anyone using the single mast DO NOT drill per Ralphs plans. StarBee is kind enough to include an updated drill pattern for the single mast when you buy it. They also confirmed that the single mast IS stronger. On an interesting side note, Ralph himself is using the the single mast on the new Bee he's building...how 'bout that?

[KDOG]

Sorry RotoPix, you must have posted just when I was typing that!

[Dale Young]

I'm not trying to perpetuate an "amazing "story . FIRST, It's not MY story.I'm simply passing on a incident that I heard of happening. Besides, If it never happened, why did some gyro manufacturers go to a redundent mast option to begin with? (I believe Air Command did.) I THINK it might have been Doug that told me of this . If ANYBODY knows speak up.

[KDOG]

My point is, why go to a weaker mast to begin with? The single is stronger than the redundant, period. Its LESS likely to break.

[Dale Young]

If I had known that to begin with, I'd probably gone single too, but that story echos in my head.

[KDOG]

Besides, I'm a light weight (140-150) so there will be less stress on it in my bird anyway!!

[Dale Young]

You just might haveta carry some rocks in your pocket :D

[KDOG]

:eek: :confused:

[Doug Riley]

The story about surviving the breakage of a mast in flight comes from the Southwest a number of years ago. I believe it was reported in Rotorcraft mag; if not, it was in the early days of Norm's forum. The gyro was, as I recall, a 2-place Air Command. The original S x S Air Command had a mast with five engine-mounting holes drilled at the seat back. In at least one case (may have been this same one), the tubing tested to be 6063-T5. When Dennis Fetters came up with the dimensions of the Air Command, he set up essentially a zero distance from the inside edges of the walls to near edges of the shanks of the bolts. Any error in either wall thickness or hole location resulted in wall scoring.

Ralph Taggart wisely calls out a 1/32" distance between the bolt shank and the inside wall. 1/4" holes are to be 9/32" from outer edge of the tube, etc.

[Dale Young]

I think it was AirCommand that issued a safety directive on their website calling for the replacement of the 2x2 with (2)2x1 extrusions on their machines. God knows that I'm not a metalurgist, But I have to think, If all the holes are done correctly, the whole debate should be a non-issue. :cool:

[KDOG]

Why in the world did they use 6063 T5? Thats the reason it broke!! Thats only half as strong as 6061T6!!!!

[Doug Riley]

Actually, omitting the holes almost certainly adds more strength than the dual tubes.