FAR scenario

[Paul Salmon, MD]

Got a question for the group, let's see how many people get the right answer.

Let's say that you are in a gyro right over the center of Dewitt Spain airport (M01)which is located 10 nm. to the north of Memphis International. The visibility is unlimited and the ceiling is 1800 agl, you are at 1600 msl, the shelf area starts at 1800 msl, are you legal? how about if you are at 1200 msl, are you legal?

The reason I list the ceiling as "agl" is because that is how it is reported by FSS. The reason I list your altitude as "msl" is because that is what you read off your altimeter.

You can pull up a copy of the memphis sectional off of airnav.com, just click on the little section of the sectional, after you search for KMEM.

[thesultanofscud]

Got a question for the group, let's see how many people get the right answer.

Let's say that you are in a gyro right over the center of Dewitt Spain airport (M01)which is located 10 nm. to the north of Memphis International. The visibility is unlimited and the ceiling is 1800 agl, you are at 1600 msl, the shelf area starts at 1800 msl, are you legal? how about if you are at 1200 msl, are you legal?

The reason I list the ceiling as "agl" is because that is how it is reported by FSS. The reason I list your altitude as "msl" is because that is what you read off your altimeter.

You can pull up a copy of the memphis sectional off of airnav.com, just click on the little section of the sectional, after you search for KMEM.

The answer to the first question (1,600' MSL) is that you are in violation of class Echo (E-5) airspace because you are operating at 424 feet below the ceiling. Within Echo airspace, aircraft may not operate at less than 500 feet below the ceiling. You would have to be 76 feet lower to be legal in this case.

You could possibly get away with this if you had requested special VFR from Memphis to operate in the controlled airspace outside of the Memphis Intl terminal airspace. Unfortunately, the "NO SVFR" printed above the terminal information for KMEM means that, even though you may not be operating special VFR for the purpose of going too Memphis Intl, you still may not get SVFR service when you ask for it. Since the visibility and clouds meet and exceed the basic categorical VFR minimums of 3 statue miles visibility and 1,000 foot ceilings, Memphis Approach/Departure won't understand why you're requesting special VFR anyways...they'll likely write you off as another lunatic in a gyroplane (I kid). With the inability to relieve yourself of the 500' minimum distance of FAR 91.155 by way of special VFR, you're illegal.

In the case of (1,200' MSL), you are now operating at a legal distance from instrument meteorological conditions, as you are now flying at 824 feet below the ceiling. Quod erat demonstrandum.

In either case, you're in echo airspace until you descend to lower than 700 feet AGL...

Depending on what you're doing at either altitude over the field, you could be illegal by 91.13 (careless or reckless op) or by 91.119 if you continue eastbound. It all depends on the Fed that corners you.

[Paul Salmon, MD]

Your answer for 1,600 msl is correct, you don't have the required 500 ft. below the clouds.
The second part of the question concerns 1,200 msl. In this case you do have the required 500 ft. below the clouds met, however you would only be 976 ft. agl. (the elevation at M01 is 224 ft. Thus you would not meet the 1000 ft. above the highest object requirement for a congested area.
The reason I bring this up is that I suspect that more people violate the regs in this type of situation than you might think.

[thesultanofscud]

Depending on what you're doing at either altitude over the field, you could be illegal by 91.13 (careless or reckless op) or by 91.119 if you continue eastbound. It all depends on the Fed that corners you.

Ahhh this is where the hypothetical aspect of the question gets interesting...the minimum altitude rules apply to those aircraft that are in cruise flight or transitioning airspace.

The regs use language like, "Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes..."

The question indicated that you are over the airport itself, thus I took the step in assuming that any aircraft in that position is involved in pattern work, as just transitioning at that altitude would have been considered reckless by default. The point: If the aircraft is in cruising flight, then I agree with you 100%.

I have to say that any aircraft transitioning dead center over a non-towered field 100 feet below typical pattern altitude is will raise eyebrows before the violation of 91.119 will in this case.

[Mac]

Paul Looks like you have some cool credentials in your bio. MD & CFI. My wife is a charge nurse on the PICU floor. She would love to be a flight nurse however she loves working with just kids, even more.

Just posting a couple pictures to go with the discussion. Take it that the reporting station is for M01 and not from KMEM ATIS (341 ASL).