WOW! What a cool gyro!

[joeheli]

I really can wait to this gyro gets to production. This will be my dream come true gyro! WOW! :eek: . I will sell my mother in law if I have too!( I really can't get much for her! :D ) just to get that gyro. This is a cool gyro. I try to
post it bigger but it says that the file is to big. I just saw it on PRA magazine.
WOW! :eek: :eek:

[joeheli]

This gyro is from the UK. Is all composite, 2 seat, Ducted fan Autogyro.Oh!
thanks Todd for posting the picture for me! :D

[PW_Plack]

Jose,

You might want to wait until it actually flies before deciding how badly you want it. It appears to have MUCH more side area ahead of CG than behind CG, so wait till it's tested for yaw stability.

But, just so we can plan ahead, post some pictures of your mother-in-law, and tell us how much you're asking. :)

[birdy]

Ha ha ha,you are a funny bugger Paul.
But Jose,I don't reckon COOL is an appropreate word to discribe it,more like HOT.
I'd hate to be sitt'n under that canopy on a stinker summer day,on the ground or in the air.

[joeheli]

PW_Plack> theres some picture of my mother in law. I can give it to you verry cheap :D ! And if you buy it, YOU OWN IT! so don't you dare try to give back to me :mad: . Any way I will give you and offer you buy her and I give you her siter too( They are twins) . Good deal! :D

[Brian Jackson]

Aughhh... We should hook her up with THIS guy:

[quadrirotor]

and this will gives!...

[gyromike]

Let's stay on topic, guys. ;)

[Helidev II]

Details?
Who, website?

[joeheli]

I just got it from the June-July 2004 PRA magazine. The only detail is the one that I already post. Is no more info. I just know like birdy says "That is a HOT, COOL gyro"

[donshoebridge]

It's also nothing more than a small plastic model mock-up. :(

[Brian Jackson]

I'd be concerned about it's stability characteristics during shears, thermals and vertical gusts. Looks like most of the flat plate area is well forward of the CG, and no HS. I just don't see how it could "weathervane" properly. Granted, it's damn cool lookin' though!

[Aussie_Paul]

I think that there is more chance of me getting my Firebird up and running than that being successfull, although I have been wrong before!!! When was it Chuck B in 1999?

Aussie Paul.:)

[Brian Jackson]

Maybe it'll make a CGI appearance in the next Batman movie!

[joeheli]

Aussie, On the end of the paragraft says: "I would welcome contact from interest parties" So it is flyin, is already test.

[Aussie_Paul]

Yeah, right Joeheli!!!!!!!!!!

Aussie Paul.:)

[joeheli]

Aussie OK!... you want see the info..... just read. Something more do you need!

[Hognose]

I don't reckon COOL is an appropreate word to discribe it,more like HOT.
I'd hate to be sitt'n under that canopy on a stinker summer day,on the ground or in the air.

Well, that bird is from England, where the natives view sunshine about as often as the rest of us see solar eclipses. And Dave Bird is from somewhere near Alice, where only the coming of night stops the sun trying to fry one's brain. Explains why he wears that Crocodile Dundee hat. :)

For what it's worth, machinery can be "styled" or it can be "designed." Former word implies a swoopy line on a piece of paper (or pack o' pixels), latter word implies a grasp of the engineering involved. A lot of homebuilt aircraft are styled, vice designed. Sometimes they can be fixed in flight test, sometimes they can't.

For something to be aerodynamically stable, the centre of gravity must be before the centre of pressure, full stop. Is that the case with this machine? Appears not.

cheers

-=K=-

[joeheli]

I just say that LOOKS COOL! .I don't care if dosen't fly and they will use it later to make " The new Power wheel super gyros", or if is plastic,wood, titanium or made of Cake. I just say... it.... was... cool!. :D :D ;) any way "Anything is posible!!" ;)

[Terry_Smith]

:) I agreed with Don Shoebridge back in the Theory of Flight thread a few days ago when someone else posted a comment on the UK gyro. I thought then that it looked like a model as the scale of it compared to the surrounding structures etc. didn't look right.

If they in fact are getting a new gyro "off the ground" it would be much better to show the craft in flight, or documentation to show its characteristics.

Terry

[Brian Jackson]

Right on, Terry.

It's awesome to let one's imagination loose on the unsuspecting public. "Industrial Design" is a huge industry. It's the shape-shifting that makes one cordless phone more desirable than another, though both perform equally well. Styling is everything where broad markets are concerned. GM has spent billions on this.

I'm still waiting for those "cars of the future" they promised me in the '50s. And whatever happened with that whole moving sidewalk thing, and teleportation? I want my money back!

[gyromike]

I don't see a rudder on it. Maybe it's behind the prop or in the shroud.

I'll bet it would be a handful in an engine out situation...
Or even in a power-on situation.

Moeller's SkyCar looks good on the ground too. :cool:

[Helidev II]

gyromike, you beat me to the punch, pretty much what I was thinking word for word.
I would be interested to see the numbers for their ducted fan. Many have tried this and failed. The only ducted fan that I know is flying is a Cozy with a fan.
I could work, but photos of it airborne would be nice.

[donshoebridge]

Helidev,

There is a guy in Vancouver, WA by the name of Don Saunders that was developing a fixed-wing ducted fan that he called the JetHawk. There is an aviation museum in Vancouver that may still have the first copy of the JetHawk that Don put together.

Power came from a Mazda 13B rotary engine, which drove nothing more than a 21" radiator fan! The engine and fan assembly was buried in the airframe, like a jet fighter. It had retractable gear to clean it up best as possible. From what I've heard, it's a real pig.

For a 2-place aircraft, it was real small, and on a hot day, you wouldn't see day light under the tires unless your were picking it up with a crane. Top speed was only 140 mph. It looked Ok, could be better. But the engine, fan and ducting design sucked (pardon the pun) from the word go. There was no clear shot for the air to hit the fan because of 2 reasons; 1) the fan was about 10-12 inches from the back of the engine, which blocked most of the air, and 2) there were 4130 structural tubes going in every direction and a few passed acrossed the duct air inlet. Because the fan was so close to the engine, the fan sat well into the air intake opening, not behind it where you would normally see a jet engine located.

The JetHawk was a great idea, but it was poorly planned and poorly executed.

[PTKay]

If you remember I was always a Ducted Fan fan.

At least the gyro on the pic is CTL, easy to achieve with such a small
diameter of the fan without those clumsy high legs and broken keels
of the other designs.

I am just wondering why quadrirotor (Andre) didn't comment on it until now.

If this bird is realy flying and performing I will also give my leg and arm
for it (not only the mother in law).

There is a saying in aviation: "What looks good flys good".

Maybe true....

But certainly purely aerodynamically designed vessels with
no "artists" at work are beautifull by themselves (see Concord).

BTW: The "legs" are way behind the CoG and seem to be flat and
aerodynamical, so maybe will do for HS ???

PTKay

[quadrirotor]

PTkay, I didn't comment because this is a joke: this gyro is a toy!... CG flawed, longitudinal instability, insufficient trust, a disaster if this gyro was built for flying!...You'd better built this one:

[PTKay]

OK, Andre,

where to get the blueprints from ????

Paul

[quadrirotor]

PTkay, i gave you the site where i found this gyro...May be you could speak to the designer for news and developments. This gyro is very close of one of the first prototype of the Avian.

[quadrirotor]

But if you want to built at once a good gyro, my favorite would be the Barnett J4B2: :)

[quadrirotor]

The efficiency of the fan is not as good as we could think:
At 50 mph-> efficiencies: prop=0.70, fan=0.80
At 100mph->...................prop=0.77, fan= 0.80...

Ref: Ducted fans for light aircraft, analysis,design,construction by R.W. HOVEY.
The difficulties to built a really an efficient fan are tremendous (small tolerances! etc...). There are many things to do with the rotor (section, twist, tips...) and with the cleaness of the cockpit...Also weight is a big concern on a gyro, you must have the lightest gyro before adding power... So the best is to have a very efficient prop and that's it. :)

[PTKay]

I found someone who can maybe help me in my quest.

The are specialists in fans, hoovercraft, and at the moment working
on ducted prop universal vehicle, also capable to be fitted with rotor
(as they claim).

http://www.hovertech.com.pl/EN/

See their idea.

PTKay

[PTKay]

Ok, in the English text

http://www.hovertech.com.pl/EN/projects/

(see Vehicles), they don't claim to use rotor, only flex wing,
but such claim (rotor=wirnik) is in the Polish version of the text.

PTKay

[Helidev II]

Don, yeh Im aware of that one.
I beleive it was sold as a kit, but never flew well. The guys at mass flow have been reworking the kit to try and help those who purchased. They also have a book out called ducted fan design. Its a good read, and documents alot of different ducted fan designs. However the only one that I have been able find that is actually flying is a ducted fan cozy. but it was more of a project to get rid of a PSRU, than a test of efficiency.
I think what kills fans is the amount of R&D required to get good performance. With fans you have to do all the work yourself, where as with a prop you just ring one of 100 manufacturers.
Yes a duct does weigh more however you get more thrust from a smaller diameter, so its all a trade off. An easy example would be the fenestron tail rotor. The incentive to get rid of a conventional TR, ment the money was spent to refine the use of a fan instead.

[PTKay]

The PAVE initiative of NASA goes also strong for ducted fans.
(TailFan project), so maybe soon you will have also lots
of ready ducted fan solutions available, like from the
hoovercraft guys (see above).

Have a look.

http://rasc.larc.nasa.gov/rasc_new/PAVE/PAVE-PPT-or-PDF.html

PTKay

[Brian Jackson]

Thanks for the linky, Paul. Very interesting read.