To sell SPH I as kit or finish it, that is the question ?

[Bob F]

Hello,

Due to continuing health problems over the last year, I have decided to sell my SparrowHawk I kit. It is approximately 90% done (50 hrs?) left to complete. It has too many upgraded SPH 2/3 parts to list, but some are: new SPH 2/3 landing gear, New style main adj main bearing support, 2.5 motor out of new kit bought last year, SPH taller tail support, SPH 2/3 new style exhaust, SPH 2/385 amp alt., SPH 2/3 cabin instrument pod shelf, elec trim. The list goes on and on. If Dan Banks said they had something new and improved I bought it. So my question for everyone is this: 1. Do I sell it as an unfinished kit? 2. Do I finish it and let the new buyer decide if he or she wants to deal with FAA inspection and try to be the builder of record?
3. Finish it and get it approved as a Light Sport gyro and then sell it? Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Bob Foster

[bmoore2156]

How much do you want for it as it is?

[Bob F]

Bmoore,

I am asking $ 27,000 for it or best offer. It was co-built with a gentleman who worked for the AAI factory for over 5 years so every thing has been done right. If you want a list of all the extras I have for it. E-mail me at rcfoster@comcast.net and I'll send you the list. Or feel free to call me at 253-380-3774 or send me your phone # I can call for free on my cell. The gyro is in a hanger at the Auburn airport where it is being built.

Best Regards,

Bob Foster

[mark treidel]

Bob, at this point in time it can only be registered as Experimental Amatuer Built as the time frame for Light Sport has expired. I'm not sure that too many S/H's were registered that way as they were over weight limits.

[Bob F]

Mark,

I talked to the EEA and they told me that if build it my self, you still can have a Light Sport Experimental Amateur if you can make the weight limit.
But its been a few months since that call. As far making the weight limit, I've talked to factory about how they did it and I'm sure I'll be Ok unless they changed the rules lately. If not then I guess it won't be LSP.

Mark, do you have opinion on which way I should go, as how I should sell it ?

Thanks,

Bob

[Chuck Roberg]

I talked to the EEA and they told me that if build it my self, you still can have a Light Sport Experimental Amateur

It's the builder not the kit manufacturer that determines the gross weight limit.

[Mike484]

Hello,

Due to continuing health problems over the last year, I have decided to sell my SparrowHawk I kit. It is approximately 90% done (50 hrs?) left to complete. It has too many upgraded SPH 2/3 parts to list, but some are: new SPH 2/3 landing gear, New style main adj main bearing support, 2.5 motor out of new kit bought last year, SPH taller tail support, SPH 2/3 new style exhaust, SPH 2/385 amp alt., SPH 2/3 cabin instrument pod shelf, elec trim. The list goes on and on. If Dan Banks said they had something new and improved I bought it. So my question for everyone is this: 1. Do I sell it as an unfinished kit? 2. Do I finish it and let the new buyer decide if he or she wants to deal with FAA inspection and try to be the builder of record?
3. Finish it and get it approved as a Light Sport gyro and then sell it? Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Bob Foster

I would think you would have to weigh out if it would be worth your time and effort without getting paid for it, I don't think you would get much more for it whether completed or not. Today's market for gyros is not good, there are a lot being sold for well under their true value. My opinion.

[animal]

I would say finish it and get it legal,there are probably more people out with the money to buy a Finished and legal gyro then it is that have the time or skill to Finish building it.
and I think you will get more out of one that you can demo.

[bmoore2156]

I have a newbie question for you guys.
To get this machine registered. The buyer would have to take it apart and reassemble from the ground up to get a N number? (Taking pictures to prove it) Right?

[dragonflyerthom]

You can be one of the builders. Some EAB aircraft may have had several different people building it before it is finally registered to one builder. Photos are a must but once it has been registered then you can't legally do a dis assembly and get credit as the original builder.

[animal]

here is the answer I got from the Main FAA man,when i asked him awhile back about a Single seat helicopter I was looking at.

Tim,
Per our conversations 14 CFR 21.191 (g) states : Operating an
aircraft the major portion of which has been fabricated and assembled by
persons who undertook the construction project solely for their own
education and recreation. It does not say that the applicant has to be
builder, but the applicant must make available any documentation required
to establish that the aircraft is eligible for certification per 21.191
(g). The builder listed on the Statement of Eligibility Form 8130-12 is
the person who would be eligible to make application for the repairman's
certificate.



Van Stumpner
Aviation Safety Inspector
Federal Aviation Administration
Designee Standardization Branch AFS-640
(405) 954 3668

basicly you can get it legal as long as it is amature built, you just can't get the repairmens cert. on it, which basicly means you have to have an A/P do the inspections or any major work. I really don't see how thats a big deal,if you had a certified aircraft,you would have to have an A/P do the same.
so answer is yes.
as long as you can prove it was not hired out to be built.
so what it means is,it has to be 51% amature built, it does not say 51% by the same builder.

[bmoore2156]

Thanks Thom and Animal!
Have a nice day!

[Chuck Roberg]

To add on to what Animal stated. This is a reply I posted in another thread.

If the owner is not the builder then he can not get the repairman's certificate for that aircraft. In other words the conditional inspection would have to be done by at least an A&P mechanic.

Several years ago I purchased a two seat F/W fat ultralight aircraft. The previous owner never registered it, just flew it as is. I was able to register it as EAB. The FAA inspector that came out looked it over and knew from past experience it was from a 51% Kit. He issued me the airworthiness certificate. But since I was not the builder I could not get the repairman's certificate.

We may be getting ahead of ourselves here. This could be an older picture. Dan is the type of person who keeps on top of things. He may have already had it converted to ELSA or EAB.

As a side note to those new to flying.

A certificated aircraft has to have an annual inspection once a year. This inspection needs to be signed off by an IA. An IA is the next level above an A&P mechanic.

Anyone can work on a certified aircraft, at least up to a point. But that work would have to be checked by an IA and signed off by that IA. So if that IA does not trust you he most likely will not let you touch anything.

An experimental aircraft needs an inspection once a year. This is called a Conditional inspection not an Annual inspection. This can be completed by the person holding the repairman's certificate for that aircraft or an A&P or IA.

The regulations for who can work on SLSA aircraft are a little different. Since there are no SLSA Gyro's I won't go into that here. But for those interested you can check here.

http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/fina..._synopsis.html

[animal]

Chuck thanks for clearing that up more.I knew an A/P could do the conditional inspection on experimentals. but you are right.if it went into another class it would be a differant story probably. at any point the Gyro listed for sale can easyily get the airworthness and be legally flown. just the buyer may not be bale to get the repairmens cert.
to tell you the truth,I am not agaisnt that idea much anyway as an A/P may spot something the Homebuilder might miss.

I know I don't mind an extra set of eyes looking over my Gyro Project. what I see may look fine to me. might can be done safer with someone thats be around and trained better.