Whats in your panel? [Archive]

animal

12-31-2008, 11:48 AM

Ok I have just started fitting my panel as you can see I have an air speed and alt. and compass in one side. also for my birthday yesterday mom bought me a triple gauge set that has water temp,oil press. and volts. I also have a Hobbs. what would be good to have in the other 2 full size holes on the other side of the panel as I have it drawn. keep in mind all the electrical will be mounted in the sub panel. Rotor tach and engine tack will be in the sub panel.

so I thought I would start this thread so that other can show us their panels so new builders can also have an idea whats is needed or whats just nice to have.

As soon as I get every thing cut and fitted I will then repaint my panel.

I had first painted it with wrinkle paint but it did not come out right so when I sanded it off I figured that would be the best time to fit everything.

I learned one thing already. a Dremil tool in fiberglass can get away from ya fast. oops.

fiveboy

12-31-2008, 12:37 PM

Leave a space for a gps?
(Interior or exterior).

jcarleto

12-31-2008, 01:18 PM

I'm laying mine out now and will post it in the build thread when it is completed. Basically, Airspeed, Altimeter and VSI will be the 3 large instruments (3 1/8"). The rest will be 2.25" round....Hobbs, Fuel, Volt, Oil Pressure, Coolant Temperature, Compass. The exception with be the rectangular RRPM indicator. It is both not round and digital. The rest will all be "steam gauges."

The starter, and all switches and breakers are going on a separate side console adjacent the throttle on the port side of the front seat. This will leave room for a combination radio/GPS and transponder on the front panel at some point, if I decide to get those.

I'm going to have to figure some way to manage console lighting. Only a few of my instruments have internal illumination. If I can find some of the old-style post lights, I might plant a small forest of those on each panel. Best would be some LED post lights...anyone know of a source for something like that?

*JC*

fiveboy

12-31-2008, 01:34 PM

If I can find some of the old-style post lights, I might plant a small forest of those on each panel. Best would be some LED post lights...anyone know of a source for something like that?

*JC*

I dont know what old style post lights are but heres a spot I found that has lots of high tech low amp options....

http://www.superbrightleds.com/led_prods.htm

ckurz7000

12-31-2008, 01:43 PM

I have always wondered what I would do with a VSI in a gyro. That's something I certainly wouldn't award a full size plot on my panel estate. I've never felt the lack of it (in a gyro).

-- Chris.

barnstorm2

12-31-2008, 01:43 PM

I love gizmos when flying but ironicly by favorite gyro cockpit had no panel to speak of.

http://i.livescience.com/images/ig41_amz_gyroplane_dam_09.jpg

When I did build my own panel I left lots of room for expantion. But I tipped the darn thing over and now the panel has been sitting in my workshop for 4 years.

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3243&d=1090245095

My Twinstarr Panel came already made and had NO ROOM for new stuff!
I had to add my fancy fuel gauge and voltage meter under the panel, put the GPS on the side and I have no idea how I am going to stuff a transponder into it when I finally get one!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3140/2730228837_e20672fd02.jpg

barnstorm2

12-31-2008, 01:51 PM

I have always wondered what I would do with a VSI in a gyro. That's something I certainly wouldn't award a full size plot on my panel estate. I've never felt the lack of it (in a gyro).

-- Chris.

I love my VSI.

While I would not give up airspeed and alt for it :rolleyes: It is nice to have on cross countries at high altitude for maintaining an efficient cruise. It is also nice to have when judging how big the last thermal was and how much your performance is sucking because of the big passenger you have the the back seat:eek:

I also find that is seems to help low-time gyro pilots get better at learning to maintain altitude. Once they use the VSI and start to get the feel of being under blades they can quickly tell if they are climbing or descending without looking. Without a VSI it seems to take people alot longer to learn to hold altitude accurately. That has been my experience anyway.

.

jcarleto

12-31-2008, 01:51 PM

Fiveboy:

Thanks...those are the type bulbs..but I am actually looking for the post type fixtures a la 1950's Cessna panels. The instruments were not back lit, and instead of a red light in the ceiling, many had individual "posts" that jutted out about 1/2" from the panel below each of the instruments. They made the panel a bit busy, and it was a pain keeping ALL the little bulbs working at the same time, but they were effective. The same thing in an LED might solve the latter problem.

*JC*

jcarleto

12-31-2008, 02:00 PM

I have always wondered what I would do with a VSI in a gyro.

It is the "radar controlled airspace" cross-country pilot in me that affords it so much latitude. I typically fly my VSI when maintaining a cross-country course and altitude. If I keep the VSI on the money, the altitude stays right where I want it. A FW concept I know, but I am too old to change. Even flying the GyRonimo from airport to airport, I lock in a cruise altitude that would keep even the likes of grumpy ole' Tampa Approach off my back. I use a Micro-Tim combination altimeter/VSI on the GyRonimo and HATE IT. The idea that I have to wait 5 seconds to see if I changed altitude makes me crazy..er...crazier. :D

*JC*

Al_Hammer

12-31-2008, 02:13 PM

Post lights and other lighting gizmos:
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/airsec/Aircraft/LightingSystem/InstrumentLighting.html

animal

12-31-2008, 02:35 PM

so since I want to do cross country, a VSI would be a good investment I am taken it.

jcarleto

12-31-2008, 02:38 PM

Al,

Yep...the WHL A350CN-R14 Whelen is the one. Looks like it is still an incandescent bulb. I didn't think about Chief...always forget them. It looks like they have a lot of LED choices too. I'll have to look through their offering.

Thanks!

*JC*

jcarleto

12-31-2008, 02:44 PM

Animal,

A VSI isn't mandatory for cross country. You can get by with just an altimeter. It is just real nice to have for time when you want to maintain an exact altitude. When assigned a flight altitude by a radar center while using cross-country flight following, for example. It reacts faster than the altimeter so you can get the jump on an updraft or downdraft in real time instead of responding to what it did to your altitude after the fact. Some might say it is overkill for a gyro. It certainly isn't much help bouncing in and out of bean fields and whizzing around tree lines.

*JC*

animal

12-31-2008, 03:20 PM

JC it might be good for me since I don't have one of the best altimeters. mine is just a single needle unit. if i really wanted over kill..lol I do have an electric gyro horzion I could install. would that make me an IFR gyro.. :)

WaspAir

12-31-2008, 04:59 PM

Another use for a VSI (besides cruise altitude control) is for those times when you find you're not blessed with an over abundance of performance (e.g., hot, high, and heavy). If you spend any time in the vicinity of your ceiling, or in trying to get a good climb angle over high mountainous terrain, for example, it's a handy thing to have for optimizing your climb rate, and much better than most people's seat of the pants.

Personally, I like analog read-out engine and rotor tachs much better than digital (more information available at a glance with less mental effort), and they can take up some significant space.

Earthboundmisft

12-31-2008, 06:07 PM

Whats a panel? I think the Cherokee I rent has on of those...

Timchick

12-31-2008, 06:26 PM

mgoroff

12-31-2008, 09:10 PM

ckurz7000

01-01-2009, 12:39 AM

Regarding the VSI, I guess it all depends on what you're used to. When I want to maintain altitude, I look at the altimeter as my primary instrument. Why would I look at the VSI when that's lagging behind some anyway and all I want to do is keep the pointers of the altimeter pegged? I don't need to fly an ILS approach, I don't need to keep a constant rate climb/descend and I'm not trying to soar the gyro in thermals all that often (where you'd need a total energy compensated VSI to be really useful).

None of the gyros for instruction have a VSI. When showing someone how to fly straight and level I try not to fixate them on any instrument too much. I don't want their heads in the cockpit staring at a dial. Mostly pointing out the gyro's attitude and a cross check with the altimeter is what's needed for them to catch on quickly.

But, of course, there's nothing wrong with having a VSI in the panel.

-- Chris.

animal

01-01-2009, 06:32 AM

I have a VSI and love it. I had the micro-tim and didn't care for it so I put in a normal VSI gauge. I have a hard time judging when I'm losing or gaining alt so it helps. Hopefully I'll get better at judging over time and won't need it as much.

My gauges are ASI, ALT, VSI, engine tach (tiny tach), Rotor tach (bike speedo), and quad CHT/EGT.

Animal, how about temperature gauges? I've got a quad CHT/EGT gauge. Do you need to monitor water temps in the Subaru?

Timchick, I have a water temp gauge with the set,old press. gauge and volt meter. but I do think since I plan to get that Aerocarb with in flight mixture control,that a EGT would be in order. was thinking maybe find one of those combo gauges that has EGT and CHT in one unit.

now just to see if I can find a them at a good price.

animal

01-01-2009, 06:41 AM

My panel has an MGL Enigma EFIS with full instrumentation and moving map in a compact package. Also, a mode c transponder, ICOM A200, PS Engineering intercom, an alarm light and backup fuel pump activation light. Everything is internally lit, so no post lights on the pannel, though I do have LED floodlights for the cabin and two Whelen LED post lights for the switch panel.

Marc

Nice panel Marc, what kind of Radios are you useing there? I am going to be looking for some radios that will fit in the sub panel.

reason I mounted the sub panel is when sitting in the seat you can not reach the main panel easyily, when I rised my seat to get closer to CLT it sets my head up closer to the windsheild, so by looking at the windsheild frame.

It looks like it would prevent me from reaching stuff. thru fit and sitting in it test I have determined that if I mount a Radio in the sub panel, I would be able to reach it and switches with ease.

jcarleto

01-01-2009, 07:15 AM

animal

01-01-2009, 07:24 AM

Animal,

I really like the idea of a sub panel you can reach. I'm building mine for the two-place today. I don't know why they aren't more popular. I put a little "mini-pod" on the GyRonimo for the radio, but I think I'm going to remove it in favor of a little plate next to the throttle. That way, I can actually change frequencies when I have so much clothing on that I look like a Sumo.

You mentioned "overkill." I can't shake the idea of a radar altimeter for the gyro. OK, sure...maybe it would cost more than the whole machine. But, I could really clean up my landings if I just watched it and flared when it hit 2 feet. ;)

*JC* JC glad you like the sub panel idea of mine, what I plan to do is try and keep all the electrical stuff in the sub panel. maybe even mount breakers on the side with seperate little lights to each one, if a breaker blows the light goes out and I know it's time to land and figure out whats wrong.
It might would give early warning,if say the breaker to the fuel pumps blew.

This gyro has taken alot more time to build like I want it, then planned.
But I think the end result will be worth it.

jcarleto

01-01-2009, 08:28 AM

Animal,

Exactly! Switches and breakers on the sub panel. I planned to put the breaker below each switch. The lights are a nice idea. Depending on how many switches I end up with, I may do the same.

I'm moving a lot slower than expected as well, but I guess that happens.

*JC*

Al_Hammer

01-01-2009, 08:37 AM

I can't shake the idea of a radar altimeter for the gyro. OK, sure...maybe it would cost more than the whole machine. But, I could really clean up my landings if I just watched it and flared when it hit 2 feet. ;)

*JC*

I helped a friend install a $30 sonar range finder on his gyro. It was designed to assist in parking a car and had three lights, red , yellow and green, which we extended to mount on the panel. The main unit with transducer was mounted on the keel facing down.
At about 10 ft over the runway, the first light would light. You could fly the runway holding altitude perfectly by keeping the light just lit.
At two ft. the last light would come on and you could time your flare to it.
It worked over pavement or grass. Pretty cool gadget.

jcarleto

01-01-2009, 09:02 AM

I helped a friend install a $30 sonar range finder on his gyro.

Do you have a source for such a device?

*JC*

Al_Hammer

01-01-2009, 09:17 AM

Jc, here's a link to a similar device. I said sonar, but the device actually uses infrared to sense distance I think.
http://jalopnik.com/359316/
also, Radio Shack used to have them.

fiveboy

01-01-2009, 11:32 AM

Jc, here's a link to a similar device. I said sonar, but the device actually uses infrared to sense distance I think.
http://jalopnik.com/359316/
also, Radio Shack used to have them.

This has to be one of the best ideas I have heard of. I will do this!

fiveboy

01-01-2009, 11:39 AM

Check out this tricked out version!

http://cgi.ebay.com/CAR-RADAR-PARKING-4-SENSORS-WITH-LED-DISPLAY_W0QQitemZ110331608200QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCa r_Alarms_Security?hash=item110331608200&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1209|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

mgoroff

01-01-2009, 08:05 PM

Nice panel Marc, what kind of Radios are you useing there? I am going to be looking for some radios that will fit in the sub panel.

My radio is an ICOM A200. It's a reasonably priced radio and I'm very happy with the performance. I also have a King KT-76A transponder. It was an extra one I had swapped out of my FW. If you need a transponder, I'd go with a newer solid state unit and avoid the cavity tube units like the KT-76A. I wound up replacing the cavity tube twice in mine and I could have bought a new Garmin for the same price. :mad:

Marc

Vance

01-01-2009, 08:47 PM

The Predators panel.

The two red switches on the near left are the left and right Magnetos.

Next on the left side is the transponder.

On top is the GPS III and the vertical card compass.

The digital engine tachometer.

The low fuel pressure light.

The circuit breaker for the tachometer.

The volt meter.

Left and right fuel gages, 22 gallons total.

Digital rotor Tachometer.

Altimeter.

Vertical speed indicator.

Air Speed indicator.

Intercom.

Oil pressure.

Oil temperature.

Timer.

Cylinder head temperature.

Radio.

Then a row of circuit breakers.

The first row of toggle switches, starting upper left is the master, alternator, electric fuel pump and instrument lights.

The second row left is Navigation lights, strobe lights, left landing light and right landing light.

I use them all and find value in all of them.

Thank you, Vance

animal

01-02-2009, 05:28 AM

Thanks for the Info Marc.I think I will start looking for one, do you by any chance remember how wide the radio is? I like the visability of the read out on that one.

animal

01-02-2009, 05:34 AM

Vance, nice panel,thanks for posting.
I had not thought about putting the altinator on a switch. good idea.

Very Nice Panel.

jcarleto

01-02-2009, 05:50 AM

This thread may be a reasonable place for this discussion. If not, please accept my apology for thread wandering:

I have talked to a few people recently about a master electrical switch for Subaru engines. My thought is that it isn't needed and may even be a bad idea. Since the Subaru requires an electric fuel pump, computer-equipped models rely on the computer, and even most of the gauges require power to function, I can't see anything good coming from a master electrical switch beyond the functionality provided if using a standard automotive starter switch.

The primary reason aircraft engines have electrical isolation master switches is power is generally optional for the operation of most systems (on GA type aircraft, at least). It is a safety issue, especially in the case of fire, to remove the electrical system from the equation and still be able to fly. My position for Subaru (and other automotive conversions) is to tie the electrical into the standard automotive starter switch. That way, you maintain fire isolation, but are very clear that turning the switch off is going to be a root cause for that big fan thing to stop blowing.

What say ye?

*JC*

animal

01-02-2009, 06:02 AM

JC good post, I for one plan to have my ignition power on a completely seperate feed from the battery, then if I was to have an electrical fire I can shut down the whole system,minus fuel pump and still keep running. so in effect will have 2 master switches, 1 for engine and 1 for the power distribution strip.

Vance

01-02-2009, 06:26 AM

Thank You Timothy, I think Mark did a very nice job. The picture was better before I reduced it. I would not have thought of all the breakers and switches. They have proved to be valuable on several occasions.

The alternator switch has it’s good and bad points.

The Lycoming O-290G will run on the magnetos so it is nice to be able to isolate the potential problem as JC says. It also protects the radio and transponder from the spike alternators have a tendency to make when the engine stops on lean out.

The down side is it is easy to forget because everything will run off the battery. I start her with the alternator off and then after she starts turn on the alternator, transponder to standby and turn on the radio. I have forgotten to turn on the alternator three times. I was taught to sweep the engine instruments before the end of the runway so I usually catch anything amiss then. The voltage is still in the green so it is not so easy to see. Once I did not catch it for about 3 minutes and it is very bad for the battery to deep cycle it.

I agree with JC, the spike and the isolation would be handled with an automotive type switch on an automobile engine. It would make start up and shut down less complex.

After my night cross country push to talk stops the engine experience with a Subaru at Gila Bend, I have grown fond of the magnetos and don’t mind the added complexity on start up and shut down.

Thank you, Vance

Heather Poe

01-02-2009, 09:56 AM

Thanks for the Info Marc.I think I will start looking for one, do you by any chance remember how wide the radio is?
Animal,
The radio is a standard rack mount, which is 6.25 inches. Becker has radios and transponders that fit in round panel holes, Randy Coplen's Sparrowhawk uses them.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/becker_ar420.php
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/ATC4401-1-175.php
Heather

animal

01-02-2009, 11:23 AM

thanks Heather,I will check those out.

Mark Mitchell

01-02-2009, 08:53 PM

Here's what I have...

Rotor-Head

01-02-2009, 09:50 PM

Mine's pretty simple...

billygyro

01-04-2009, 02:57 PM

Here is mine, loaded with 2 GPS's:D

some even like the carpet !!

barnstorm2

01-04-2009, 04:10 PM

Here is mine, loaded with 2 GPS's:D

some even like the carpet !!

I like that!

Great layout and great choice of GPS's!

.

animal

01-04-2009, 04:21 PM

Billy it looks good, how are the tests going?

looking forward to seeing pics of ya in the air.

with any luck the Falcon will fly this year.

jcarleto

01-05-2009, 08:27 AM

Billy,

I've said it before. Carpet in a single-place gyro is just wrong. It's wrong. :D

That said, and having sat in said gyro, it is more comfortable than some of the chairs in my living room. They layout is very logical and practical.

*JC*

billygyro

01-05-2009, 04:02 PM

Thanks Guy's,:D
Well my inspection is on Sat. 10....... then it's to the flight testing and the 40 hr's.

(dont tell anyone) but it fly's smooth above the runway:tape:.....

greeny

01-08-2009, 11:38 PM

Basically, I'll fly with the Enigma EFIS (top). There are two big flashing alarm LEDs on either side of it.
Since local regulations require me to backup an EFIS, I'll install an electronic compass, an altimeter and an ASI, all of which run on a redundant accu.
Below these are the current indicator (shows the amount of torque while changing the pitch), the circuit braker and the switch for the IVOprop.
Then some fuses and switches, and a triple plug for accessories.
Bottom is the switch for the magneto check and the mains-/starter switch.
The radio will be externally connected. A transponder is not required (yet!).

Never mind the dirty look of the panel. It's just a protective cover in order to prevent scratches before anodizing the alumn.

Picture 1: Drilled panel with the stuff I already have.
Picture 2: How it will be connected (schematics)

Heather Poe

01-12-2009, 12:58 PM

Some people might think that is a bit of overkill, but it will be great for cross-country flights!

ckurz7000

01-12-2009, 11:05 PM

Hi, greeny! How's the DF02? I thought Michael was a bit behind in getting the first production run off the ground. He's a great guy and I love talking to him. The DF02 is a great machine, too, with a lot of safety and thoughtful elements added. The only downside -- but Michael wouldn't be talked out of it -- is the Hirth engine.

Greetings, -- Chris.

greeny

01-14-2009, 05:34 AM

How's the DF02? I thought Michael was a bit behind in getting the first production run off the ground ..
A bit? He is something like one year behind schedule. Sigh ..
Since I build mine as an experimental, I did manufacture a lot of stuff myself. Thus, I am in front of Michael's first production serie. But still, I am kept waiting for ages.
The only downside -- but Michael wouldn't be talked out of it -- is the Hirth engine.
The Hirth offers exeptional weight to power ratio - and at a decent price, too. If it only were more reliable ..
My personal favorite had been the Smart conversion by Ecofly, but Mercedes discontinued the production of the engine. Anyway, it had been too expensive for a modified car engine.