Swapping the 503 for the 447

[CLS447]

Well, since the airport is now being sold & will be done Jan. 31st I grabbed my toys & went home(save on rent).

Also the miss on my 447 was getting worse(probably points).

So I removed the 447 & prepared to install the new 503. Guess what? The engine bolt mounting pattern has changed !

Also the engine will have to be moved back to allow for the oil injection pump.

Hey guess what ! I have a complete CLT kit on my shelf ! I did not want to do the conversion yet, I just wanted to swap out the engine & do an equal comparison.

So I unwrapped one part...the engine mount tube. It seems that the new tube will correct my problems( the right spacing & move the engine back for oil pump ).

Although the CLT kit will flip the engine upright , I can use it this way(I hope )!

I will still need new throttle cables, new lower prerotator drive(C box) & either use new side exhaust or relocate old exhaust.

What do you think ?

More to come !..........

[barnstorm2]

Chris is the airport shutting down?

I hope not. If so I hope your trailer drive will be short.

I know I am supposted to say go ahead and do the full CLT upgrade now... but I have to admit, I would want at least 1 machine up and flying while I worked on the other.

.

[GYRO J]

yea its abummer when the weather is good and your machine is down for repairs

[CLS447]

Tim, yes the airport is closing ! I will attach some articles if I can find any.

They supposedly got 14.5 million for it & will be turned into a shopping center !

I hope to share Larry B.'s hangar with him in the spring

I am due for my biennial flight review. I plan to get that done in the spring(GOOD LORD WILLING) & it is getting cold !

So now I have a TON of things to get done including surviving !

Hopefully with the economy the airport deal will fall through & Kutztown will survive.

http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=109221

http://www.topix.com/forum/us/faa/TC2K5N6KAD0MJMR6F

Tonight Meatloaf is coming to our little town & we have tickets......should be fun!

Next month is Steve Miller !

I only wished that I could spend every day , all day working on my gyros but it just ain't happening. It's really all I want to do !

Time to prepare for WINTER !!

I see that you guys got a Skyboy.......that's cool ! Have fun !

[PW_Plack]

...its abummer when the weather is good and your machine is down for repair...

It's a bigger bummer when your gyro is running great and your airport disappears!

I wonder if the shopping center could be built to have a very long, flat roof with no HVAC equipment obstructing it. Hmmm...

[skier]

Sorry to hear about Kutztown, I've flown in there a few times. It was a nice little strip and a really popular destination for people from my home airport (3N6).

[CLS447]

UPDATE......I haven't touched my gyros !!! BOO HOO !

The Meatloaf concert was postponed(as was the one in Youngstown, OHIO)

I think that I will be using the Air Command High Torque prerotator drive on the 503 with C box.

I will need the 9" drum & lower unit & throttle plate with engagement lever. The upper unit will be used over & I hope that the flexshaft will also work. Merry Christmas to me !

Anybody see the new stuff from Air Command ?

Check out the newsletter press release(PDF file) on their website.

Happy Halloween ! OK now let's turn those clocks back, I am sick of waiting for the sun to come up !

Hey wait one cotton pickin minute here......won't that give me less daylight in the evening ?

I don't know if I like this !? Welcome to my nightmare !

I am also hoping for a quick weekend so that this frickin election thing will be over sooner !

I am soooo worried about the stock market, I might lose everything! (just kidding)

[helipaddy]

$65,900 for a 912 tandem! that is some price.

[CLS447]

I might have to sell some of my Exxon stock for that !

That one got shipped overseas , I don't think too many gyro guys will go for that!

But you never know ....some can afford Xenons & Magnis !

I like Subaru ! Did you ever fly in a 2.5 powered RAF ? Rocketship !

Now how about those toe brakes? For me they are not needed....both my gyros can do very tight circles !

[CLS447]

We got the camera working again............here are some pics.

Explanations to follow tommorrow.

Well , Good Morning everyone ! Happy November ! Here goes a simple engine swap..........

1. New motor mount tube with correct motor mount spacing(old 447 had different spacing)
This also moved motor back about 3"
I would like to move it front 2 1/2" - 3". 3" would put the front of the oil pump a little too close to the mast for my liking.

I considered flipping the engine upright & flipping the gearbox down. Unfortunately this would raise the thrustline, & start a whole new set of changes.

Where the motor is now , it seems to have less prop to keel clearance than before, which I don't like. Do all Rotax gearboxes have the same offset?

2. I had decided to go with Air Commands' 9" drum for the high torque prerotator. Good thing because my old drum, for the B box ,obviously will not work with my new C box.

Anyone have a picture of a C box with a Wunderlich setup on it ?

My B box was 2.58-1 I don't think my C box has that ratio, I will find out.

Is the C box better than the B ? & why ?

3. With the engine where it is, the mount to keel motor support tubes hit the engine before they can get back into the U brackets where they belong. If I move the engine forward less than or even as far as 3" will they clear the engine then ? In my way of doing things, there is only one way to find out....try it !

4. If I get the engine front 3" , the support tubes might work & the exhaust might just fit right up !

On that note.....Is the 447 exhaust exactly the same as the 503 ?

5. I must also rotate the rope recoil starter to work with the pulley on the mast. So I have to remove the oil pump to do this. I imagine that the oil pump can be rotated accordingly? I must also install a longer rope.

I really want to keep the oil injection system, but obviously it would be easier to scrap it !

6. I actually enjoy these challenges but my dogs(Spike & Scarlet) seem to be a little bored & frustrated.

Guys, posting this whole thing is good therapy but I really would like some feedback !

And don't say..."just do the whole CLT conversion" because I have read the manual & that would NOT be easier right now ! I still have to work on the SxS(see other thread)

[CLS447]

HMMM.........not one responce!

Forget that I even asked any questions....................oh, you all already did OR WHAT ????

IS IT THAT PAINFUL TO TYPE ? If I can do it, ...............?

I know where to find a picture of the prerotators..................http://www.calumetair.com/

Under the prerotator section.

[Timchick]

Chris,
I don't have any answers to your questions because I don't have an Air Command. I did use some Air Command mount parts on my gyro when I mounted my 503 on it. I chose to mount my gearbox up to keep the engine lower to allow more clearance for my push rods. Some of the guys with the gyrobees have had clearance problems with their pushrods hitting the engine housing. Afterwards I think I could've mounted my gearbox down without the clearance problems because my mast is angled back and the gyrobee masts are straight up.

[barnstorm2]

Chris,

I wish I had the answers to your questions but I don't.

I like the photos though and I feel you are adding good material to the gyro knowledge base.

I know if I ever get a AC447 again I will hunt down a 503 and follow this log to upgrade it!

About the only thing I can say is that I would keep the oil injection system if I could...

In my experience with motorcycles the injected engines always worked more reliably and lasted longer.

Do you have a Lockwood Aviation catalog? They have some GREAT cross-model rotax info in them.

.

[CLS447]

Thanks guys, when I ordered the c box I wasn't even thinking that the prerotator drum was not going to fit!

It's hard to get important info like that.

Does anyone have a pic of this setup ? Wait.........does anyone have a C box ?

Does anyone have an older "low Rider" with an oil injected 503 on it ?

They always say "a picture is worth a thousand words" right ?

[cgmg]

Chris,

I agree totally with keeping the oil injection! I've done it both ways, and with mixing the oil, I was always changing plugs due to fouling. Never had to do that, except on time, with the oil injection.

The one drawback for me with oil injection was that I had to pull the engine back to get the starter housing off. It also created some clearance issues with the control rods, I think. Don't remember the exact details, but got it worked out.

[CLS447]

Happy Thanksgiving !

I got the motor mounted ! I had the engine tube shortened & redrilled so that there is about 1/2" between the mast & the front of the oil pump.

The rear engine support tubes hit the corners of the motor, so after looking at the options, I had a wider top strap made that moved the rods out 1" on each side. Worked great !

Now I need to get the throttle cables figured out. I got a used set from Bear Perkins($100 new/ $40 used) seems to have the wrong end on it for the oil pump.

Also trying to decide what to do with the chokes(i have the cable type)

Now would be the time to install the C box clutch since I have not done the box assembly yet. What is the best price you have seen on this unit ?

I will also need a new ignition switch for the dual ignition. What kind are you guys using ?

[barnstorm2]

Photos!?!

.

[CLS447]

Tim, my camera is on the seat of the SxS at garage! Sorry.

I will post them soon.

Oh the exhaust manifold is different between the 447 & the 503 but the exhaust is interchangeable.

One small modification & the old exhaust will fit right up.

I have now paid for & placed my order through Air Command for ....

1. 9" drum for C box

2. Lower prerotator drive unit(high torque)

3. Dual lever throttle plate(throttle lever & prerotator engagement lever)

I hope my flex shaft will work.

[Timchick]

Chris,
Install a primer and forget the chokes. I give my 503 a couple primer squirts and it starts up on the first pull. Sometimes after it starts it sounds like it's going to die and I just give the primer another squirt.

[giro5]

question 2 in part. the c box is heavier duty (also a little heavier) than the b (you can swing a larger dia prop and not worry about prop inertia). The b ratio of 2.58 is 2.62 in a c box (4 ratios available for the c box). And you can put a clutch in the c box but not in a b box.

[giro5]

Dominators have the rotax upright with the prop drive on the gear box down. Helps raise the cg keeps thrust line closer to cg. I like the rotax upright as the plugs don't oil up when the engine set for a while. Down side is smaller dia prop has to be used. I haven't measured it but thrust on my 447 with a 68 inch wooden prop feel as strong as the 503 didc with a 60 three blade powerfin I had on a trike.

[CLS447]

Tim, I am considering the primer instead of the chokes. I don't want any more cables & levers than necessary.

I still have not figured out how to "cap off" the chokes yet, do you know how ?

CPS is asking $475 for the clutch in their catalog.....anyone know of a better price ?

Lockwoods' on-line store has not been functioning for a long time. I will have to go to the garage & grab their catalog.

One thing for sure .....If the engine was upright, all of the cables would pull in the same direction.

I have 2 throttle cables pulling upward & the oil pump cable pulling downward, creating a loop in that cable.

All of the premade cables are a certain length.....I may be asking for a custom length.


TIM Chick.....Where is that closeup shot of your engine(thread) I can't find it ?

[Timchick]

Chris,
Here's a thread talking about disconnecting the choke: http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18388

Here are a few photos of my engine. Not sure where the other thread is. I plan on changing my prerotator lower mount to the other side of the engine as soon as I figure out how to make a bracket to make it work. Right now my prerotator shaft crosses behind my mast and rubs against it.

[CLS447]

Tim, that's the same lower drive unit that I had on my 447 engine. Since she was mounted plugs down though, my carb was on the other side.

With you carbs on the left side & with the gearbox up ...it looks like it might be tough to get setup on the other side.

I have all my catalogs at home here & I have alot of questions concerning the throttle & choke cables.

For starters......there are 2 different "splitters" available for the cables....a long one & a shorter one. CPS says the long one won't limit your throttle cable pull....DUH who wants that?!

So I guess I want the long one? Will I need the longer one for my choke cables ?

There is a splitter mount availabe(long & short) but LEAF has a double one available but only in the short version. So I guess 2 long ones for twice the price will be needed unless they make it in the long style.

I would like to mount the 2 splitters on the side of my mast with the inlet(single cable) end pointing down. This will make for easier cable routing to my throttle & choke lever.

CPS & LEAF have the cables to the carbs & oil pump already made to certain lengths. They have different lengths for plug up & plug down applications. I don't think that their measurements will work for my job.They must loop from the splitter up & back down to the top of the carbs.

The oil pump cable must also go up & then down & then back up to the underside of the oil pump(must be longer). I dont believe the oil pump can be inverted.

Lockwoods catalog says that they will make custom cable lengths....this will probably be the way for me to go.

Another thing....the 582 & the 503 require different "barrel" ends for the oil pump. The 503's is larger. LEAF offers a bushing to increase the size of the end for the 503 ( less inventory?).
Lockwood makes the cables specifically for the engine needed(preferred by me ).

As for the choke....I would like the 2 splitters mounted SxS on the mast ...so everyones choke cables out of the splitter will also probably be too short. So I will probably need custom made choke cables.

To switch them to lever chokes will cost about $35 each. Why should I mess with 2 levers when one dash mount handle will operate both chokes?

I always used the choke lever on my 447 Single Carb with great success so I will try the chokes on the 503. If I am not happy with them, then maybe I will go with the primer setup with all the extra fuel line.

So I will be trying to order what I need on Monday. I will have to imagine the mounting point for the 2 splitters & then get measurements for ...2 throttle cables, 1 oil pump cable, & 2 choke cables.

Tim, where is you cable splitter mounted? I can't see it in the photos.

I am definitely considering the RK clutch for my C box but I want to find out if I should do the engine break-in procedure without it first.

[CLS447]

My flash doesn't work on my "small" camera, so sometimes the pics blurr when I move a little. But the pics can be posted without resizing....making life easier.

I will always have a camera that allows for quick posting.

Notice the "NEW" distance between the mast & the fornt of the oil pump.

Notice the new top mounting stap that moved the rods out one inch to clear the motor.

Check out those V shields from Bear Perkins ! With my luck, they will both probably have to go because of the prerotator drive!

Anyone looking for a used 447 ?

[mark treidel]

Tim Chick........in photo #2 above in post 23, I noticed something you probably should be aware of. The fuel pump you use has a very small 'weep hole' on the back side & should you ever develop a 'drip' it could go right to the hot muffler. You might want to consider relocating it, perhaps to the bracket above your primer. Just a 'heads up'....

Chris, your work is meticulous as always.

[CLS447]

I tell you ....I CAN'T WAIT TO TRY THIS 503 !

I might not do the run-in until spring but the sooner the single place is ready , the sooner I can get back on the 2.5 upgrade on the SxS.

The 447 does not have a future home at this time & I am seriously looking to sell it.

Has 2.58-1 B box Point ignition exhaust manifold fuel pump

Do I hear any offers? I would love to use it on a single seat trike.....anyone have one cheap ?

[CLS447]

GOOD MORNING MARK! Nice to see you are watching, Thanks !

I got a dual fuel pump to mount also(more mental stress)but I think I know how I am going to do it.

But I looked & there is no weephole on mine !

Against everything that I have read....the original mounting location of the fuel pump on my 447 was bolted right to the motor. There were holes that seemed to be just for this.

I did it according to the instructions with plastic washers to isolate it from the heat.

In 20+ years that fuel pump never gave me a problem! I hope my new fuel pump is just as good !

My main concern is to keep the pulse line as short as possible & I hope to mount it with rubber cushions.

Mark, are you flying much lately ?

[mark treidel]

Chris, If you check the back of the Mikuni fuel pump, there is a (very) small hole about the size of a pin prick. That is the weep hole. You must use this pump for the 503. If you have a CPS catalogue, check it out in the carb section. Otherwise go on line. As long as you keep the pulse line less than about 15", you should be fine to mount it where you can. Otherwise you may need a boost pump. Your set up sure looks great.
I was up flying last Wed. afternoon on a beautifully smooth sunset flight in the trike. Had the gyro up the week before. Today, I woke up to 2" of 'partly cloudy' in my driveway. It's HEEEERE!!........

[barnstorm2]

Looking great!

[CLS447]

Mark, I will look closer for the weep hole.

I have CPS #994-485 supplied with motor. It says...includes Rotax weep hole requirements.

I was hoping for less radio noise with this new engine.....CPS says that I should shield kill wires to help with this problem. I guess I will be getting shielding ! I imagine that you have to put 2 wires together in the shielding?

How about those dual mag kill switches ! About 50 bucks with key ....75 bucks without key! My 447 had 1 toggle with safety cap !

I am afraid to total up the cost of this SIMPLE engine swap !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


THINK SPRING !!!!!

Tim C. ....how is your kill wired ?

[Timchick]

Tim Chick........in photo #2 above in post 23, I noticed something you probably should be aware of. The fuel pump you use has a very small 'weep hole' on the back side & should you ever develop a 'drip' it could go right to the hot muffler. You might want to consider relocating it, perhaps to the bracket above your primer. Just a 'heads up'....

Chris, your work is meticulous as always.

Mark,
My pump does not have the weep hole. If I replace it with one that does I'll relocate it so it won't weep onto the muffler. I added the carb vent line plumbing so it wouldn't vent onto my muffler.

Chris,
I think hooking up a primer would be a lot less hassle than hooking up your chokes/cables/splitter, etc. Try the primer first and then add the choke cables if you're not satisfied. I've never heard of anyone going back to chokes after trying the primer. My splitter cables came with my engine so I'm not sure which ones you need to order (short or long stroke). I also don't have the oil injection so I can't help you on that cable hookup either.

I mounted my splitter to the top of my engine housing using an adell clamp with a spacer to position it up off the housing.

I have a double pole master ignition switch mounted by my primer since I start the engine standing on that side of the gyro. If I have to kill the engine while I'm on that side I can throw the master ignition switch. I have dual ignition switches mounted by my throttle handle beside my seat for normal dual ignition operation.

[CLS447]

Mark & Tim.....I found the weep hole ! Well Shar found it.

I am looking all over the body of the pump & it was not there. The brass 90 degree fitting thet the pulse line connects to has a tiny hole in it. This was also verified with one of my books or catalogs.

That is troublesome to me........why would you want an air vent in the very important pulse line system ? What is the purpose ?

I will find their explanation & post it but I don't think that it has anything to do with leaking fuel .


Now ,it seems the best place for me to mount my splitters is on the side of the mast between the motor mount cluster plates & the shock tube mount.(see picture)

Using that location we used a piece of brake line tubing to simulate cable housing measurements.

The measurements we came up with do not match the ones that CPS & LEAF have in stock.......not even close! That also goes for the choke cables. I cannot even begin to work with their lengths.

So it looks like I will probably have to pay through the nose for Lockwood to custom make them. I hope that they are not too much more than stock ones.

AS for the oil pump cable..... CPS has a 35" one & LEAF has a 38" one(or visa versa). This seems like the most expensive one because it has a threaded adjuster on the pump end. These measurements seem more usable to me & I might just order it & hope it works or to find out what custom length I would really need.

I am hoping for the double SxS splitter mounting bracket. I think I will pop rivit it to the side of the mast.

Then work out the control ends of my cables. Then get the most accurate measurements on the carb & choke ends & order them.

I wonder what the ends that go in the splitter look like? Maybe just like that tiny end that goes in the thottle slide in the carb ?

You can see that my oil pump cable will have to run upward & then loop back down just like all the other cables. But then it will have to loop back up to get to the bottom of the oil pump.

It sure would be nice if the oil pump could be inverted just like the engine but I don't believe that this is possible.....but I will ask!

Now I will be opening two carb slides & an oil pump with one cable & a slide splitter. The less bends in this cable mess the better , but it seems like I may want to add some length to my throttle lever for better leverage !


One more thing we did was to figure out the exhaust modification. All that is needed is to raise the chunk of 1" square tube that the exhaust mounting clamps bolt to. This will be done with 2 aluminum spacers 3/8" thick & 2 longer 3/8" AN bolts that pass through the rubber exhaust mounts. Guess what......I don't have those bolts! Hello Spruce, I have a bolt order let me see if I can get them all in one call........IMPOSSIBLE !!!!!!!

[CLS447]

One more note......CPS catalog says that the choke is an important tool for diagnosing engine problems in flight. If I can't reach my choke levers or eliminate the choke , I would not be able to do the engine tests outlined in their catalog.

This alone makes me feel better about getting the remote choke & cable setup. Another reason is the choke always worked great for starting my 447......I will now have 2 chokes & won't have to reach around the machine to turn them on or off.

Another thing....If I use a primer what will I be priming the cylinders with....fuel or premixed fuel ? I won't have premix anymore !

[GyroRon]

Chris I would not hook up the chokes. The primer is just fine. Yes the primer shoots raw fuel into the engine. I would not worry about it not being premixed as your only talking about enough gas to just get the engine started and there is tons of oil already inside the engine to provide protection during that first few seconds.

The weep hole in the fuel pump is there incase fuel droplets manage to come out of the engine through the pulse line and end up trapped in the pulse end of the fuel pump. If too much fuel were to collect there, the pressure could burst the fuel pumps internal membranes and cause a failure. The weephole is supposed to allow the fuel to escape through it instead of punching a hole internally in the pump if too much gas were to end up in the pulse side of the pump. I didn't see where you had it mounted, but basically, if the pump is mounted above the engine, you should never have a problem and the weephole should never weep.....

I will give you 500$ for the 447 :)

[CLS447]

Ron, thanks for chiming in......good info!

I will be mounting my fuel pump above the engine. I have a mount designed in my head but will need it done at the machine shop. If you all like it I could have more done.

Basically it mill be a machined aluminum bracket that will bolt around a 2x2 tube(my motor mount tube). The pump will then attach to the bracket or plate,if you will, via 2 Lord sandwich mounts. before completion I will determine the angle that the pump will sit at. My fuel line will come in at the top(on the 90 degree bend & the 2 carb lines will be pointing down to the carb inlets...perfect!

The pulse line will also be pointing towards the pulse tap. Should be less than 8" long.

I will post pics during construction.

Now I appreciate your offer on the 447 but I got a private message from another member earlier....I am waiting for his responce. He is located in monterey? I asked where that is. Overseas......not!

Anyway, did you want the gearbox for that price?

Since I am reusing the exsisting exhaust except that I had to use the 503 manifold(the wye pipe). I plan to keep the side exhaust that the 503 motor was shipped with. So no exhaust (will have wye pipe).

I like your offer & will get back to you. I don't like to nickel & dime people but what do you think I could get for the B box & carb by themselves?

I am not sure if I want to sell the prerotator drum & lower drive unit yet. But they are for the B box & will have no use to me eventually.

Thanks alot !

[GyroRon]

Chris, I was joshing ya with that offer. If you sell the engine complete and ready to fly including exhaust system, gearbox and carb, it should be able to bring between 1000-1500$. Without all the parts needed it is worth significantly less as a package..... Maybe 400-600$ for the engine, 300-500$ for the gearbox, 100$ for the carb.

Just check out Barnstomers.com for other 447's for sale and see what they are asking for those. Good luck

[CLS447]

Well it took all week for my order from Lockwood to get here.

I got 2 short cable splitters @ $5.95 each. They said the longer ones are for the 900 series engines. The short ones provide 2" of cable pull. After trying my old & new carbs...it seems that they only really have 1 1/2" or so of travel on the slides.

This is good because LEAF sells a double bracket for the 3" splitters. Lockwood does not offer a mount at all & said most people mount them with Adell clamps. I have decided to get the double mount from LEAF.

Lockwood will make custom length cables.....materials + $85/hr. CPS said no extra charge for custom length.

The splitters That I got will convert from 1 cable to as many as 4. Others offer 2,3, or 4.
I will just plug the extra outlet holes with silicone.

Also from Lockwood I recieved a 3' piece of thick walled Tygothane for pulse line. I also got some oversleeve tube for the standard Tygothane fuel line because I use SS aviation clamps.

The price of their Tygothane fuel line went from .60 to $1.99 a foot. They said that it is the new stuff that handles methanol alcohol. I passed at this price.

Now I guess I have to wait till monday to get my cable order in to CPS. I will also order a couple of new non paper fuel filters. Some kill wire shielding & I am still trying to figure out who has the ignition switch for the least money.

I will also need the Choke lever control. So I guess I will have to wait another week for this stuff.

I want to order the RK clutch for the C box. I think it is too nice to pass up!

[mark treidel]

Chris, I think you will like the clutch. I have one on my trike. It's a bit of a chore to put in but worth the effort. For starting the engine & for ground safety, you cant beat it. Also, you will notice in flight that there is 'windmill' drag from the prop when you decelerate (you may have a bit more drag) but it is not something to worry about. You simply back off the throttle a bit slower.

[CLS447]

Hey Mark, I ordered the clutch from CPS last night. My 06 catalog said $475 but it was $520....ouch! I wonder if the stock parts that it is replacing could help offset the cost for me. Or should I just keep them on a shelf ?

I ordered eveything now I hope! I got two different fuel filters coming to compare.

They are going to make my custom length throttle & choke cables.

I also ordered my new keyed kill switch....$75 owwwwwww!

They said my order will go out today...Fedex. That's fast.

One good thing .....I am getting all new catalogs now.

For sale .....old Lockwood, CPS, & Leaf catalogs. Make offer.


One more thing....I have to find out from Westtach if my exsisting Tach/ hr meter will work with my new engine. I might need a new one of those also.

I don't care what you do......This is an expensive hobby ! Even after the cost of the new engine, the hits just keep on coming !

[barnstorm2]

This is a great log Chris. Knowing the cost of the upgrade is helpfull too.

If someday I get a good deal on a 447 I am going to come here and follow these instructions to upgrade.

After she is airworthy I would say eBay off the old parts.

I have found that with my motorcycle restorations that if I keep the part I won't need it and if I sell off the part I will. Since there is no way to win you might as well get cash now...

.

[CLS447]

Well, Thank you Tim ! I do this for therapy & I always hope that someone can get something useful out of it all.

I talked to Doug at Air Command tonight & he says that they are working on my parts.

I said that it would be nice to have them by CHRISTMAS !

[gyromike]

Chris,

If you decide to part out your old setup, I will be needing a gearbox.
Let me know if you want to sell it.

[CLS447]

We just watched the DARK KNIGHT for the first time......We liked it! Good Batman movie!

Mike, I think I have an $800 offer for the whole thing from a member in California.

I must still give him first shot. I'll let you know. Thanks

[CLS447]

OK......my package from CPS has finally arrived !

The RK clutch is on backorder. I hope that they got all the cables right. I hope to check it out this weekend, maybe sooner.

It seems as though the offers for my 447 have come to an end. Make me an offer.

[CLS447]

OK .....I thought I would just post some pics I took yesterday of prerotator & cables.

OH yeah ...I forgot to mention that I got my stuff from Air Command !

Full description of new problems to follow !

Well, I can mention a few challenges now. First off it is snowing here ! Maybe will turn to rain. NEED TO GET TO GARAGE>>>>START 88 SUBARU & drag Shar with. Need more hands & someone to argue with.

Something is wrong with cables...throttle cables(not housing) seem short. Not letting carb slides bottom out. Need to take close look.

Choke cables seem long(not housing). Splitter is out of travel before it even starts pulling on choke.

WTF don't they know how much exposed cable is needed for the rotax ? Need to take closer look so I can deal intelligently with these morons.

Oil injector cable seems good on length (housing & cable) but the end for the pump is to small to fit the pump arm. I told them ... FOR THE 503 !!!!!!!!!!!

Why does Rotax have to make that cable different for the 503 & the 582 ? I guess just to make things difficult !

Lower PR drive is nice. I just don't know yet if flex shaft is gonna make it past rear engine support tube. It will be close. Good thing I had to move them out. I might have to move at least that side out more !

Need to put on prop & check for clearance between drive wheel & prop blades. I hope that is not an issue.

I will call CPS tommorrow & get this cable mess straightened out & see when my clutch will get here.

I really want to get the gearbox final assembly finished.

[scottessex]

Lookin good Chris,
maybe I should start a thread about the rotax 582 to arctic cat 530 conversion I am doing on the dominator. Thankfully it looks like I am not running into as many problems as I thought.
Looks like you will have it done in plenty of time for the spring thaw. :)

[CLS447]

Thanks Scott, hey I was just doing an edit. Reread & respond please.

[scottessex]

Chris, I bought all the little cable end and ferrules to make my own cables, It is a P.I.the A. to get the correct ones, why? I do not know.
You may want to get some cables with the adjuster in the middle to take up extra slack, good luck.

I got lucky on the cables on the Dom, Just disconnected the Bing carb stuff and the Mikuni cables fit like a glove, I got lucky.

[CLS447]

You know, I was thinking ....Am I gonna have to make my own cables?

If you want something done right...DO IT YOURSELF !

They did a nice job on the ends but you would think they would know exactly what they need on length!

Hey , I'm glad things seem to be working out for your job. Please start a thread on it !!!!!!

How do you install those ends? Solder pot ? There's another thread ! Who says things are slow around here !?

NO MORE ADJUSTERS ! Each carb has one & each choke has one. Also there will be another at my throttle quadrant.

[animal]

Lookin good Chris,
maybe I should start a thread about the rotax 582 to arctic cat 530 conversion I am doing on the dominator. . :) Scott,I think that would be a great thread. and I am sure there are alot of pointers along the way that would help someone else.

[animal]

Chris, it sounds like this conversion has turned into almost as big a job as finishing your 2 seater. good luck on both.

[CLS447]

Tim, not nearly as much custom work, just time consuming little changes.
But I feel that the new engine with 10 more ponies & a better prerotator should be well worth the effort. You gotta remember that this machine has been flying my butt around since 1986.

Went to garage & fired up bullet heater.

It appears as though the throttle cables are perfect but the choke cables are too long.
The splitter slide tube is out of travel before they even begin to pull on the chokes.

I will call CPS today & see what they were thinking.

I threw on the IVO & everything seems great there. Now to get to the machine shop & give them a couple of holiday projects! HA!

Once the cables are working right... things should come together.

The flex shaft is not long enough but I have a spare longer one from my 2 place thay I can use but it will have to be shortened.

I need to lock myself in the garage for about a week to get my head straightened out.

Vacation time ! Yeah !

[CLS447]

I called CPS today, I spoke with an english speaking, intelligent sounding man.....thank God !

My clutch is still on backorder but will be there anyday now. Yeah & the check is in the mail !

So I tell him about the cable problem....He says that the person who took the order should have sent me a custom cable form.

I told him that the only info I can supply is the cable housing length & the type of ends the cable needs. Those items are all correct.

The problem is with the amount of cable that protrudes from the housing & only they would know the proper amount for the chokes.

But this guy sounds a little angry & insists that he fax me the form. OK OK !

I hang up & call my boss' office & he gives me his fax #. I'm a little pissed & decide to call back with the # & ask for Mike Stratman(the Rotax genius).

I call back & I get the same guy. I give him the # & then I ask for Mike.....it was him!

I mean if they don't know the answer then who does? I told him to pull out his dual choke cable setups & measure the cable endplay. I guess that would be too easy, unless they are all wrong!

It doesn't matter if the housing is 3" or a mile long....the endplay remains the same!

Anyway, I will pick up the form, fill it out & return the 3 wrong cables & pray they get it right this time. THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE !

I also plan to return the tiny little fuel filter with the sintered filter in it .....it looks like it belongs on an RC model. I will take pictures of the 2 types I got & see what you guys think.

More delays ! Thanks for listening to my bitching !

[animal]

Chris,I can't help but wonder if a local bike shop might not have a cable that would work. or maybe could make one. I know they make cables of all lenghts for bikes and differant types of carbs. could be worth looking into.

Now keep in mind I know nothing about rotax's but with all the differant carbs on differant bikes and stuff ,surely something could be made to work.

[CLS447]

Tim, call me crazy but.....I figured that I would be better off getting them from one of the few companies that SPECIALIZE in Rotax stuff !

Can't go wrong there, RIGHT ?

[CLS447]

Well my cables are on the way back to California with a long letter explaining how to make the cables that they already sell !

I went to the machine shop & they will be making up the dual fuel pump mount that I have designed. I hope that you all want to buy one !

It will bolt to just about any size square tube & will allow you to rotate it any way you like ! Also will use the rubber Lord mounts for heat & vibration isolation.

What do you think? Merry Christmas !

[CLS447]

I spoke with CPS yesterday. They have been off for 2 weeks.

They still have not recieved or shipped my gearbox clutch. I had only been thinking about the advantages of the clutch. I cancelled the order & saved myself $520.

Think about it.....I would like to engage my prerotator at low RPMs but my prop would not spin untill I got to 2500rpm. I add throttle till prop starts to spin(2500). The clutch would just start to grab.

Now I start up the prerotator...this will be hard on something.

So I will pass on the clutch for now.

Any thoughts on this situation ?

Anyhow, now I can assemble the gearbox as Rotax had designed it while I wait for CPS to correct my choke & oil injection cables.

[CLS447]

UPDATE....I cancelled the C box clutch.

I spoke with the guy from CPS that actually makes the throttle & choke cables.

He admitted to making them wrong and we both agreed on the proper length.

Waiting for cables.

I got my exhaust spacers from the machine shop. Also took the partially completed fuel pump mount. I will refine the design & return for completion.

I believe that I will try to redesign the prerotator so that the flex cable will run over the top of the motor mount straps. So I will probably be taking the gearbox to the machine shop to run some ideas by them.

I guess I should have been born the son of a machinist instead of a plumbers son.

They all tie together anyway....mechanic!

[CLS447]

The adjusted cables from CPS arrived today !

Now I can move forward.

If the 2 short cable junction blocks work out, I can order the double mount bracket from LEAF. Very tidy.

I ordered the SS snubbing washers from Dennis Fetters today. If you didn't catch that thread, I will find it for you. Nice product. So I will be doing the mounts the right way.

It's soooooo cold!

I also need to get my new throttle plate mounted & my new choke lever. I hope things start coming together so I can get back to that Subaru project.

[GyroRon]

Why would you put on choke cables? Use a primer Chris, it works far better and it would be lighter than messing around with all that cabling....

I have used the clutch in the last 2 gyros with C boxes, with pre rotators.... it is the cats meow. Sorry to hear you cancelled the order, that would have been great for you.

[CLS447]

Ron, but yours were Hydro prerotators, right ? How do you think the clutch would work with a Wunderlich style PR?

What is your procedure for engaging your prerotator as far as engine rpm is concerned?

The prop just starts to grab at 2500 rpms, right ?

The clutch was still on backorder...I can get that anytime.

I also could remove the chokes very easily & switch to a primer if I don't like them.

Wil you be using a clutch on the Yamanator ?

[GyroRon]

Ron, but yours were Hydro prerotators, right ? How do you think the clutch would work with a Wunderlich style PR?

What is your procedure for engaging your prerotator as far as engine rpm is concerned?

The prop just starts to grab at 2500 rpms, right ?

The clutch was still on backorder...I can get that anytime.

I also could remove the chokes very easily & switch to a primer if I don't like them.

Wil you be using a clutch on the Yamanator ?

Yes, used Hydro pre rotators, don't see why it would be any different with a cable drive....

Bring rpms up to the point that the prop is spinning, but not fully locked in, and fully bring in pre rotator. This will engauge the bendix and start the rotors spinning, but the prop will slow way down, almost to the point of it barely spinning, but that is okay, the rotors will slowly start turning faster and faster, while the prop rpm picks up too. At some point the prop rpm maxes out, rotor rpm maxes out, so you bump the throttle a little forward to get more rpms on the prop and rotor, by now everything should be locked up, the clutch and pre rotator. Then you just keep bumping the throttle a little at a time till the desired rotor rpm is reached.

Bascially, your slipping the clutch instead of the belt or drive wheel on the pre rotator. Makes for a super smooth pre rotation and minimal stress on the prerotator and rotorhead assembly. And it is nice to be able to start the engine and not have the prop spinning.

Yes around 2500 + or - 200 rpms is where it engauges. Remember that you NEVER want to idle a Rotax down where it makes vibrations. This means you usually set the idle at 2000 to 2200 rpms static. With the clutch since the prop is not spinning, you can set the idle down much lower, like 1200-1500 rpms.

Chris, have you not ever had a primer on a Rotax? It works about a hundred times better. No one who has used both chokes and primer would use the chokes over a primer.....

Right off the bat I will not have a clutch in the yamaha. The Yamaha has a different crankshaft taper than a Rotax ( it is smaller than the rotax ) so the stock Rotax flywheel and the aftermarker clutch won't fit. Racer had a custom flywheel made for his engine and for mine. I think he is intending to try a clutch in his engine when he has the time, but he is not sure how he will get it to work. He is thinking of either using a tapered shim to take up the difference in crankshaft sizes, or remachining a replica of the part of the clutch that fits on the crank, and cutting in the proper tapered bore. I was going to try to talk to the people that make the clutch and see if they would make new ones with the proper taper for the yamaha, and see if they feel it will hold up to 120+ hp going through it. If I can get a clutch that works good, and fits, I will put one in the Yamaha. Right now though it isn't a option

[CLS447]

I don't know why I thought the hydraulic prerotators would be any different. Maybe I thought with the pump & belt, that they started a little "softer".

You said that when the prop starts spinning but not fully locked in. That is what bothers me. Wouldn't that tend to wear out the clutch?

How long would the clutch last & how much does the replacement parts cost ?

When the clutch is worn, how well does it lock up the prop at all ?

I think I would rather just let the wheel slip & replace the wheel once in a while.

I have only ever owned one rotax, my 447 & it had a choke. It always worked well for me. I think. If it is tough to start, I will consider the primer.

My 447 also had a B box which if idled too slow would rattle but the C box has the rubber doughnut . I'm sure that it also has a minimum rpm to be smooth though.

Has anyone had both & can describe the differences?

I believe the clutch replaces the rubber doughnut.

[GyroRon]

Chris, you ask a lot of questions!

Yes pre rotating like I do with the clutch will wear down the pads. And yes the pads cost more than the rubber wheel on a cable drive pre rotator. But doing it this way takes all the shock loading out of the pre rotator system, making all the rest of it less stressed and will last longer.

My old white Dominator has nearly 300 hours on it with a clutch and the clutch in it is still fine. You would have to have one of these in your hands to see how the clutch is constructed, to see that slipping it is not going to hurt it. The clutch is massively beefy.

The rubber donut will be smoother than the bellview washers in the B box, but it will still shake and rattle below a certain rpm.

Anyway, you do whatever you want. It is your gyro, your money. I just know what works for me and know that when I have the option to use the clutch I will.

[CLS447]

Nice day today ! Spent too much time at the machine shop ! But the fuel pump mount will be getting finished next week.

I took my C box with lower PR drive to them. I will be relocating the lower drive unit so the flex shaft has a better path.

I got the dual throttle/prerotator plate on & mounted the new ignition switch & found a great place for my choke lever.

The choke & throttle cables are right now & installed.

The oil injection cable is on & correct, now I need to find out how to adjust it properly.

One nice day & things get moving !

[CLS447]

Well, I tried to order the double splitter mounting bracket for my cable splitters from LEAF today. They don't have them anymore! It seems that noone has the brackets for the short splitters .

So I called CPS & ordered 2 single brackets for the longer splitters......& 2 longer splitters. I also ordered their DVD on installing the Rotax engine. Who knows I might learn something. It's bound to be a better watch than the crap movies that have been coming out lately. I don't know if Shar & Tristen will agree though,but I will force them to watch it anyway !

Maybe someone would like to borrow it later?

I spent about 3 hours with an old schoolmate who works at the machine shop this morning. He clamped my C box down on the milling machine table & with the readout screen we got the location of all the hole for the new prerotator bracket. This will put the drive wheel on the top side of the gearbox drum, instead of the lower right side. This will put the flex shaft over top of the motor mount.(my engine is still going to be upside down)

Then we went to the computer & with the CAD program we drew up the new bracket plate. We will later have to design an inner pivot point bracket for the drive wheel assembly. There are 2 threaded holes in the top side of the gearbox that will allow mounting for this(I hope).

The fuel pump mount is now finished after we trimmed of the unwanted fat.

I read something on the forum today that I hope is not true.....because I will not be mounting the fuel pump horizontally. It will be on it's side.

Anyone know ?

Here are some pics of it before we trimed the fat. I did not take any pics after the trim job but will take some of it mounted.

I am trying to simplify the manufacturing of this mount to keep costs down & to keep the mounting position option open to the end user.

Ron A. if you read this....I am trying to make this job as complicated as possible because the weather is nasty up here & I don't have anything better to do with my spare time:rolleyes:

[GyroRon]

I usually just use zip ties and a small length of fuel line to make a stand off and use those to attach the splitters. On the GyRonimo, I used a Adel clamp on a existing bolt that held the splitter real nicely. Of course, I wouldn't reccommend anyone else do that cause that would be jerry rigging it! :p

And yes, if the fuel pump is mounted lower than the outlet on the side of the engine for the pulse line, then it should be mounted flat and not on it's side. Not everyone does this though, and I personally have never had a problem with them on their side, even with mounted below the pulse outlet on the engine.

[CLS447]

Adel clams were an option but the bracket is what I really wanted....sooooo...

I know....I am a little off centered !

The fuel pump will be slightly above the engine, so it should be alright then?

Thanks, I always appreciate your & others input.

[GyroRon]

Adel clams were an option but the bracket is what I really wanted....sooooo...

I know....I am a little off centered !

The fuel pump will be slightly above the engine, so it should be alright then?

Thanks, I always appreciate your & others input.

If the pump is above the engine you ought to be fine....

[billygyro]

Also on the pump, try to keep it no more than 6 inches from the pulse outlet on the engein. More than that can and will lower the fuel pres.to the carbs. This will and can cause a engein out at high rpm setting's. The further away from the outlet the less it can feed the carbs to replace the fuel brun.
Just ask a Rotax rep. They will tell you the same.

Had a friend that built a challenger 2 place, and put the pump aprox 3 ft. from the outlet. The engein would run fine all the way up to about full power and about 30 seconds into take off.Then it would lose power(not quit) but just lose power enough to have to make a E/L. After about 3 try's he called me up to take a look at the problem and when i went out to check it out i didnt see anything wrong, I ran some test run ups and every time at about full power and hold it for a sec or two,I could see the drop on the RPM gage. the first thing i thought of was float settings,pulled the bowls and was perfect. called up Rotax and told them of the problem (First thing he ask me was where was the fuel pump located ?) and to make sure it was no more than 6 inches away from the pulse outlet. I went back the next day and seen it was about 3 ft. from the engein, changed that and its been flying now for 5.5 years now. This is a Rotax 503 dual carb engein. you may getaway with it being a bit further away from the outlet with a single carb set up but i would not recomend it. hope this help's.:yo:

[CLS447]

Billy thanks. Did you see my mount in post #67 ? I always knew that they wanted the pulse line no more than 12" long, that is why I was having some trouble finding a good location for the pump.
This mount will put the pump on the 2x2 engine mount tube right above the engine. The fuel line will go in the top & the 2 carb outlet lines will go down directly to the carbs & the pulse line will be as short as possible.

It is also rubber mounted. I have the thick walled Tygothane tubing for the pulse line.

On the 447 .....against all reccomendations I had the single pump mounted to the two tapped lugs on the side of the engine. I think this was the spot designed to accept the fuel pump. In 20+ years that little pump never gave me any trouble.

I got my SS snubbing washers & Barry mounts from Dennis last night. I love them , they are perfect ! Thanks Dennis....The check is in the mail ! (not a lie )

And how is Ron A. this morning ? I hope the cramping & bloating is gone .

[GyroRon]

I am okay, just need to go take a poop.....

[scottessex]

Thanks for sharing.

[StanFoster]

Ron- I hope everything comes out at the end for you! Stan

[PTKay]

Maybe this one...

50 HP and only 30 lb !

http://www.turbinetechnologies.com/PT50/

[CLS447]

I got my splitters & brackets & video from CPS the other night. I opened the package & assembled the splitters in the brackets. I love them except for the fact that I had to spring the ends of the brackets to get the tubes in. This would be a hassle!

So since I was going to the machine shop, I took them along to have them shortened on the lathe.

The bracket to hold the lower prerotator drive to the gearbox is mostly done & looks great. So we attached the drive to the plate & then designed the inner mount bracket.

I ran & got the material for the project.

I called Spruce & ordered a bunch of nuts & bolts & washers. All in stock & are on the way. Those people are great to deal with.

Then I went to WORK ! We installed a dryer recepticle with breaker & wiring.
Then we did a subpanel to add some breaker space for another customer. Then went back to the pizza shop & installed a hand dryer, light fixture, & exit signs with emergency lighting. Of course one of the fixtures did not work...will have to replace.

Shar has purchase a property management company. She is now managing 300 rental propertys for their respective owners. This is taking up all of her time so I don't see her much or get much help from her anymore.

I still have to finish installing a kitchen for my disabled neighbor. Today we have to run some power to a 3rd floor apartment for one of Shar's rentals. Next week we are renovating a 3 phase electric service in a very large building on Penn St.

They plan to make 28 apartments in this very old building & we will be doing all the electric.

Next week we will begin roughing in the plumbing & electric in a totally rehabbed building on 3rd st. for another guy. Then we will be running to NJ to remove some cable tray from the roof of the now shutdown Air Products building(3 or 4 days worth).

Last year was bad...my 1099 shows that I only made $11,393. Obama , please help me!

I don't know how I made it ! All the jobs my boss bid & should have had got, got shopped & given to others....should be illegal ! It's a cutthroat world out there!

My gyros help keep me sane !

When the motor is mounted with the new bolts & snubbing washers I will finish the cables & splitters & begin the wiring & fuel lines. Pictures to follow.

[CLS447]

Alright...I took some pics today. I got the gearbox with new brackets back from the machine shop.

I gotta place the cable bracket on the plate & it goes back for final shaping.

There is a pic of my 2 cable splitters.

A pic of my fuel pump mount.

[All_In]

OH that is really looking good Chris, and thanks for the pictures.

[CLS447]

Well thanks ,John ! I was hoping to get a full day with a helper this weekend, but not sure that it is going to happen..

But I hope to get the fuel lines routed & clamped, the throttle & choke cables finished up to their levers & working.

I have started on the oil tank mount which will be on the front of the mast above my head & get that hose with filter finished to the oil pump.

I guess that I can gap the plugs & install them with the CHT senders. I have to finish mounting the exhaust permanently with the new SS manifold bolts & springs.

When the PR plate is finished , then the redrive can be assembled & torqued up & the prop can go back on.

Then I'd better do a hang test & see how that is. I hope that I don't have to make new cheek plates. Then I can do the wiring.

Then when it gets warmer here....fire it up & do the break in. Oh...I might need to have my spare flex shaft shortened to fit.

[All_In]

Dang Chris, looks like your getting very close!!
Love your project please keep posting pictures of you progress, so the rest of us can build vicariously through you.

[CLS447]

This here was the quick & easy(yeah right) engine swap...I need to get this done so I can get back to the heavy Iron(the SxS).

[CLS447]

I got some time in on my gyro Sunday. The fuel lines are done. The choke & thottle cables are cut & fit & work fine.

5 clicks on the choke lever & they are open. The only things I am not crazy about on the throttle are......

1. The routing of my oil injection cable. I wished the oil pump had a stronger return spring & a better way of connecting to the arm. It works but I am gonna keep a close eye on it & fix accordingly.
2. I hate those little cable stops! The one that connects the throttle cable to the thottle lever. JUNK ! It doesn't allow my cable to swivel with the lever.
I will find a better way ! Anyone here use something different ????

The gearbox & prerotator are ready for their final trip to the machine shop.

The carb unification plate will also be getting 2 milled recesses(1 for the choke cable & 1 for the fuel line).

Finished little shelf for the oil tank to sit on....need to attach bottle & plumb it up.

Almost down to the wiring ! Pics to follow.

[CLS447]

Spent the whole day at the garage but I spent alot of time straightening things up.

So then I go to assemble the gearbox. Degrease & use Locktite 221 I figure that it is the red stuff. My label is worn off.

Then the manual has a note that says "be sure to use the allen wrench with allignment pin" What ? So I go & put the DVD from CPS in my mom's player. He says to use violet locktite. ??? But he used a regular allen wrench ! He didn't even hold the washers when tightening down the doughnut bolts like the manual says.

So rereading the manual ..sure enough it says violet !

I started using the red on the flywheel bolt...so I dissassembled that.

Then I read the CPS catalog...they have the violet. It is not as permanent as the red. On large bolts..I have never had an issue with getting the red apart.

So maybe I'll get some violet...wouldn't want to void my warranty Ha.

I did get some other things done here are some pics.

Thats the inside of my camper....3 sets of rotorblades & alot of other junk !

[barnstorm2]

Looking good!

Will it be ready for B-days?

,

[CLS447]

What year ? I need to get my BFR & get my operating limitations fixed. New test area & new engine ! Maybe a new tax bill ?

You know what's funny.....I put over 6500 miles on my 2 stroke Zuma scooter....never think twice about that oil injection system. People have made me paranoid about that oil pump. Tear it off & premix!!!

I will keep an eye on it. But you gotta say...if she stops delivering the goods, it's history! I never had an issue with premix.

[barnstorm2]

In my experience with motorcycle 2-stroke engines the oil injected ones lasted longer and gave me the least number of issues. Having the oil ratio requlated keeps the engine healthyer and the gas mixture fresher in my experience.

If it were me, I would leave it on.

.

[route66]

Chris, Purple loctite is a low strength and removable adhesive designed for small parts, usually no bigger than 3/16 if my memory is correct. Seems odd to be specified on larger mount bolts rather than medium strength blue, removable or the more permanent red or green high strength. There must be a reason for the specification and I look forward to the answer.

[CLS447]

Good Morning everyone ! Weeeee...it's snowing here !

Brandon.....I ended up using red loctite on the entire redrive. That's done!

Scott Essex & others ...I have some questions. I printed out some info from ultralight news on setting up the 503. Maybe I can get straightened out on these topics.

http://www.ultralightnews.com/enginetroublshooting/techtips/techtips1.htm

The intake manifolds on my 503 are tilted.....Which way should my carbs tilt with a plugs down application ? They talked about flipping the intakes but that would put the oil injection tubes on the bottom.. Help !

I have different opinions on the oil pump arm orientation. There are marks on the arm & one on the casting. When should the marks align ????? Idle or 3000rpm ????

Can the oil pump be rotated to any direction that I choose ? That is as long as the little tubes reach.



I have most of the weight on the gyro & hope to do a hang test....maybe today ????

[GyroRon]

Chris, I think you need to flip the manifolds.

As for oil injection stuff, I am not sure. The answers are in the book/cd they provide with the engine, my stuff is out at the hangar so sorry. Personally I yank that stuff off and don't worry about it. Less crap to fail, less weight to haul around and less work to get it all hooked up and running. But what do I know.....? ;)

[CLS447]

Man did it SNOW today !!!!!

Ron, why did you think I should flip the intakes ?

The answers to the questions that I posted were not available in the Operators manual or the CD rom supplied with the engine.

Like indexing the oil pump..........???? I like answers with good reasons behind them !

I am happy enough with the answers I got & will continue on my engine swap. I want this to be the last engine on my single place.

Hang testing to follow...weather permitting !

[scottessex]

Flip the manifolds so that the carbs tilt toward the engine, not away from it, otherwise your float levels will be all screwed up.
It should mention this in the manual, if not it was addressed on the ultralight news website.

[CLS447]

You know Scott...I liked the way they are sitting now(tilted towards the engine) & Lockwood agreed with that. Then CPS tells me to inject the oil in the bottom, so that would mean flipping the intakes.

All I am searching for is the truth with facts to back them up. What you say sounds like good thinking.
My 447 intake was straight out...why do they put any angle into the 503 intakes???

It's not much, but enough to get me thinking...which can be dangerous, because then I have to look for answers.

Do you have a link to that website article ?

When it comes to things like wiring connections, get opinions & do it the way you feel good about it. But if Rotax has a certain way they want things, I'd like to do it their way. Isn't there a way to actually speak with a factory rep(in english) ?

[scottessex]

Chris, I was wrong....and I'll admit it. I just looked at my 503 the carbs do tilt away from the engine.
the liquid cooled engines (532-582-618) are straight out, and my arctic cat tilts toward the engine.
So I guess it does not mater that much.

All the rotaxes have the oil injection at the bottom, The Arctic cat engine has the ports on the sides.
Again, it might just be 6 of one, or half a dozen of the other.

[CLS447]

OK...one more call to speak with Brett at LEAF.

Flip intakes so the injection is on the bottom.

Carbs will tilt away from the motor.

I flipped injector pump ( see photos )

Will order more injector tubing.

Will be using Mobil 1 synthetic in gearbox.

[CLS447]

We had to have my mom's 15 year old German Shep put down today. At about 3:30 PM 2 grim reapers disguised as young women showed up at the house. I gave Elizabeth a final kiss & I had to walk down to the garage before I made a blubbering fool of myself.

I stood & looked at the gyros to keep my mind occupied ,until I saw them leave & then went up to see my mom & the lifeless carcass on the floor.

She took care of my mom for a long time & now she was becoming too much of a job for my mom. It was for the best.

First pic is of the grave we had dug for her days ago.

Second shot is the last picture of Elizabeth alive

[CLS447]

Some more pics....Feel free to ask questions

[barnstorm2]

I am sorry to hear about your grandmothers dog.

Is that an XT225? And if so where are you going to mount it to the gyro?

Larry Neil might have a bit of a lead on you FYI...

.

.

[GyroRon]

Comments.... Chris, sorry about moms dog. We are in the same boat, our Dalmation was born in 1993 and he is loosing his vision/ hearing/ and can't be brought in the house as he can't control when he poops. It is very cold outside and I went and bought a huge doghouse, it is over 8 feet long and 4 feet deep and wide, put a heat lamp in there and half the time he is too stubborn to go get into it, and instead sleeps on the ground under the back porch shivering. Hate to put him down, but I wonder would he be better for it.

The bike.... looks like it would be more comfortable with a seat on it!

The gyro.... you won't believe me, or want to hear it, but you need to ditch the fancy blue " Rotax 503 " covers off the side of the gearbox. That hole in the side of the gearbox is used to cool the rubber dampener. Cover the holes and you will overheat the rubber and who knows how that will effect the longevity of the part.

[route66]

Chris,
I just buried my friend for the last 20+ years and understand your pain in losing them. Your mom’s dog was blessed not only to have your mom, but you and Char to comfort him while he was here. May he rest in peace.

Your gyros look like they are getting close and look first class, can’t wait to see them fly.

[CLS447]

Brandon, sorry about your buddy, it's rough I know. Thanks for the sentiment.

Ron, I wish the best for your dog,as long as he is not suffering. Bring him in the house a little. We had tarps & blankets on the floor for Elizabeth. She would have siezures & then couldn't walk for a while. After her last bout she hadn't walked for a week.

The bike is a TW200. Dead Battery & no kick starter(how stupid). The seat is off to charge it. My 50cc Zuma has a kick start. The little Raptor quad does not have one. The new Yammy Raptor has one kept under the seat. I read it on the website...good idea. You're in the middle of the woods & stall & the battery is dead....now what?

That bike is to teach Shar how to use the clutch..She still needs practice. I myself have gotten so used to the scooters that the clutch seems like alot of work anymore. I must be getting old.

OK Ron.....the cool blue covers have spacers that came with them. They are light, allow plenty of air flow & are a safety device to prevent me from sticking my fingers in those holes ! I was afraid some curious kid would come running up, dodge the prop & stick his fingers in those gaping holes !

Also ...I happen to like them!

[CLS447]

Let me see if I can post 2 pics of the different carb angles after flipping the intakes.

[GyroRon]

Okay, as long as you have those covers set outwards so that cavity can vent I suppose you will be fine

[Dirtydog]

CLS447 : Had the same problem and I found out that one intake was on wrong and also one of the rubber boots was backward and not seated right on the intake. Once I got that fixed I was good to go.

The rubber boots only go on one way from what I see. :wacko:

[CLS447]

Dog...The arrows on the rubber couplings point towards the engine , right?

Are you plugs up or plugs down ?

You got rid of the oil injection, right ?

Which way are your carbs tilting?

How did you cap off the oil inlets on the manifold ?

Any recent photos? (post them on your thread)

[Dirtydog]

CLS447 : Took a few pictures for you!
Picture 1 : On the rubber collar you see :wacko: the arrow which way is is going.
Picture 2 : same thing.....
Picture 3 : My Oil pump injector NO USING it I don't trust them. the oil, filters, line or the oil it self. I just don't like them. My 2 cents! ;)
Picture 4 : carbs

[CLS447]

I gotta work today , so I don't know if I will get my stuff ordered today.

Need 1 meter of Rotax oil injection line & want a new shorter Oil injection cable.

I got my oil bottle mounted & piped up with filter but,I need a 5/16th brass barbed 90 fitting.

I have to order some GOOD wire & I plan to use 1/2" conduit with junction boxes to run the new wire. I will be shielding the kill wires to keep down the radio noise.

I did the hang test with all but my radio & helmet. 0-1 degree forward with no fuel & 1-2 degrees forward with full fuel. YEAH....no cheek plates needed !!!!

I should be OK even if I add the extended range fuel tanks.

Odd thing right now.....I live in the city. I see on my security monitor that my motion detecting lights have come on out at my garage door. At this time of the morning, it is usually one of my cats. But I SMELL A SKUNK ! I hope that one of my cats didn't just get sprayed !

[CLS447]

That is a pic of me the first day of the cruise last year , leaving Tampa.

Super Bowl Sunday. I didn't see the game...those drinks were strong !

I can't believe it...I posted that because it was taken with my new camera..........................I DIDN"T HAVE TO RESIZE IT !!! THE FORUM DOES IT FOR ME !!! I DON"T HAVE TO USE MY OLD CAMERA ANYMORE !!!!

I AM SOOOOO HAPPY !

[Dirtydog]

CLS447 : I will be thinking about it too in 2 weeks 7 day cruise and wakeup to a different Island each morning. We will be staying on the Ledo deck mid ship.

[CLS447]

Which cruise are you doing....Western carib?

I felt there was not enough time at each stop. Too much to eat ! I hope you enjoy it !

Have you done one before ?

I have some wiring questions to post on your wiring thread .

[Dirtydog]

CLS447 : Eastern, we fly in Saturday and get on the boat at SJP and the next 7 mornings we will be at a different place each day until Sat when were land back in SJP to fly back to FLA. to go home.
Yes the is our 8 cruise

[CLS447]

Who do you cruise with Carnival ? Wow, 8 cruise, you MUST like them !

Anyway , back to the gyro.......I am expecting a package today. It will contain my oil injection tubing & a shorter oil injection cable.

LEAF does their cables differently......the oil inj. swage is not soldered on, it uses a set screw bushing that is adjustable on a brass tube on the end of the cable with a bushing to fit the 503 pump. I hope the length works better for me & I didn't like the way the soldered on one fit the pump arm.

Here is another one I thought about getting.....http://www.greenskyadventures.com/throttle_cable/throttlecable.htm

When everything else is finalized , I can actually DO the wiring. I only want to do it ONCE !


http://www.usua4.com/Photos/photos.html

[CLS447]

I took pics of the different stuff I am dealing with......let me see if my new pics will work.

First one ...the different types of oil pump ends. CPS soldered...did not really want to stay in arm
LEAF....heavier casing, fits in adjuster perfectly. Set screw end with oversleeve for 503. Easier to instal, fits arm better. Beefier adjuster with bigger nuts. But Leaf said they would not make custom lengths. I believe they might.

Second & third pic....new oil injector line, used same clamps. Flipped intakes. How do you like the new routing ?

Fourth pic......Oil inlet feed fitting. I wished it could be swiveled or changed. I am going to turn up with a 90 right away. Let's see how that works. It is close to my pull rope & control tube.

Fifth....the air space behind the "bling" covers

Sixth...the spacers to raise the exhaust(longer bolts & new snubbing washers)

seventh....oil tank mount with line & filter

Eighth....Instrument pod without tach/hr meter

[Dirtydog]

CLS447 : I have not heard if you got the carb. problem solved? What was the problem? :twitch:

[CLS447]

No problem, The question was...to flip the intakes or not?

After checking all possible sources(?) I decided to flip them. This put the oil injection lines on the bottom of the intakes & has the carbs tilting away from the engine(air filter low).

That's that ! How's it look ?

[CLS447]

That spammer hit my thread !

Anyway, I will be redoing the wiring on my machine. I went to the electronics store & purchased a molex crimper & a 15 pin connector & pins.

No instructions so I must learn to do it myself with some help from my boss.

I found a great site on doing this.....http://www.marvin3m.com/connect/index.htm

This is the tool I got....
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=60_143_272&products_id=1277

Now I need some practice.

I need to do the mating plugs on the Rotax engine & I will be doing a new connector on the instrument pod. The tiny one will be replaced with a larger 15 pin connector.

I plan to use 1/2" pvc conduit instead of the convoluted loom. I want to have a junction box installed for easy access to the junctions of my EGT & CHT senders where they connect to the thermocouple extensions.

The instument pod connections are only for instruments ....nothing that can cause an in-flight failure of the engine. The kill switch ones are more important!

[Dirtydog]

CLS447 :
Looks like a good crimping tool. Once I get mine running I am going to redo the wires with some 18 gauge wire. Make it much neater that what it is now. I still trying to smooth out the tail Stab. I want to paint it this weekend for sure.

Sorry about that I though your carbs were not going one straight!

[CLS447]

The bummer with the whole thing is ....yesterday I noticed that the notches I had cut in my carb unification plate are not really where they should be now due to the carb "retilt". I'll see what I can do with them later.

We had a learning session with the crimper yesterday morning......It works great, & I don't believe that even a drop of solder will be needed.

I looked at the pins supplied with the Rotax.....they are not round like the molex pins but crimp the same way.

I'll be taking some pics of the 1/2" conduit piping job I have come up with for this gyro.
I picked up the fittings last night. I want to fit up as much as I can, & then paint it black before final install.

I will be making another order from Spruce for the wire & connectors & some bolts.
Then I will start the final wiring.

I have to make sure this pipe doesn't get in the way of my extended range fuel tanks, because I may want to add them onto this machine again.

I have mounts for these tanks on my SxS but won't be needing them on there for a while.

The gyros have swapped places under the hoist & I am collecting my thoughts on the SxS. It is coming back to me about where I was......


PS........DOG, ENJOY THAT CRUISE & don't fall overboard !

[Dirtydog]

CLS447 : I might come back looking like this! I am ready for a little time away for here to collect my thoughts! :twitch:

[CLS447]

I started running the pvc conduit & made sure that it would not interfere with the AUX tank mounts.

Then I had a visit with Dan McGee & his daughter Tori . It was her 19th Birthday. We talked gyros for a while & he headed home.

I went back to bending & fitting pipe. The junction box will be for sender junctions. The lower tee will pick up the 4 temp sender thermocouples.

The upper LL will get the rest of the motor wires.

It was a little too cold so I went home. Larry Boyer asked my over the phone if I wanted to fly to Frederick MD today in his Eurostar. I said yeah. I am waiting for his call this morning. I better get ready.

We will be going for breakfast with Steve Osborn.


PS HAPPY BIRTHDAY TORI ! Hope you had a great time last night !

[CLS447]

I also weighed the single seater today. She's pretty much complete but bone dry.

I use the Thrustbuster & a digital scale. They are pretty close.

[CLS447]

No pics today....but I did some more stuff.

Tommorrow I'll show you what I did !

Why can't they build an Aircraft Spuce here in Reading, PA !

I better start studying for my Flight review.

Chris Burgess.....How about a preview of what to expect ?

[CLS447]

I got my stuff from Spruce but my tach/hr meter did not get here yet.

It is done & reset back to 0. Now it will function with the CDI ignition.

I got some 18 gauge wire in black & red....nice stuff! I got ring terminals(amp) & some shrink tube. Also some adell clamps.

I have the issues with the lower drive unit ironed out. I had the drive wheel spacer shortened so the wheel lines up with the drum.

Instead of 2 short 3/8" bolt for the lower drive pivots.....I had a spacer made & got 1 long bolt to go right through both pivots. So the prerotator should be complete!

I had some extra tygothane pulse line from Lockwood(thick wall), so I used it to go from my 2 stroke oil filter to the pump. This eliminated the need for the 90 fitting & 2 clamps.

I like the new location of the oil pump & cable but.....

Damn starter rope is in the way....I went around it with the pulse line.

I'll take some pics of the new route & see what you like better.

A swivel fitting or something...would have been sweet on that pump! I did not feel like messing with the oil pump.

Maybe I could just grab it with a pliers & TWIST it !!!!

[CLS447]

Here are the pics of that stuff.

And me BEFORE the haircut, Saturday morning.

Installing the new molex connector on the instrument pod.

I got 2 different types of adell clamps from spruce DG & WDG. The Wdg are wedge type they really hold tight. A little too tight for my fuel line. They are the gold band with blue markings.

Spruce got it all !

[CLS447]

Me after the haircut.

Molex pins crimped, then soldered, Then shrink tubed.

Then snapped into the listed holes.

My trusty Dewalt & rolling machine with a $12 can of American Spirit tobacco. Next week that same can will cost $25 !

[GyroRon]

What happens next week with the tobacco? I usually buy Doral menthols by the carton and they are usually around 20-22 bucks a carton. Last time I bought some about a week and a half ago they had gone up to a little over 30$ a carton and the clerk said another big hike is coming in May. I need to quit and this may be the motivation to finally just do it

[CLS447]

Ron, I guess it's just PA gone nuts with the tax. Now their even gonna hit the loose tobacco.

I'm not sure what a pack of smokes is gonna cost here but I will let you know.

All this tax the smokers pay & we have no place to smoke.

I guess that we are EVIL !

[scottessex]

Ron, the federal tax per pack of smokes is now $.39 Wed it is going up to $1.01 per pack. In addition to the hike tobacco just had by the Mfgs.

Don't worry Chris, they really do want you to smoke, because the new tax is supposed to pay for children's free health care.

If everyone did quit, they would have to tax something else to make up for the lost revenue, perhaps.

Just bend over and grab you ankles because it's just beginning.

[CLS447]

I hear you Scott !

I got my tach back & installed ! Finish up my conduit , finish wires , fill her up & break her in !

Won't be much longer.

[CLS447]

Working on the wiring....

[Dirtydog]

You should have said something RON I saw them down in St. Lusia for 15.00 per carton!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Couple of the girls I ran it to! Wife told me to wipe my chin off.......

[GyroRon]

Look how white them legs are!

[Dirtydog]

GyroRon : Hey I have been like the bear in the winter time hiding. No not really the girls had panty hose on I just forgot mine... Ron! not only that this was the 1st stop St. Thomas on our 7 day trip.:)


CLS447 : Hey your coming along fast. Back from the fun and time to get back to work. The wife came looking for me yesterday after i got home and I was in there repairing a spot on the tail. She said " I guess I should have know where to find you now" Opps.

[CLS447]

I had alot of fun with those Rotax connectors yesterday! Came out nice.

All the wiring shieldings are landed on the engine ground bolt. I used a #10 wire to go from that bolt to the airframe also.

The lighting coil wires go only to the Kuntzleman Smart Strobe. I taked to Dick K. yesterday & he said that would be fine. Look for him at Sun n Fun.

The only thing I might have to redo is the thermocouple polarization.....if no reading....switch the connections.

[CLS447]

She is ready to fire up ! Safety wired everything & wire tied stuff. Set up carbs & cables.

Tommorow....bleed oil pump, premix 5 gallons to 100/1 ratio, tie her down, turn on chokes & pull the rope.(oops...turn on key )

Check instrument operation, set prop pitch & prepare for the break-in.

[StanFoster]

Chris- You always do top notch work. Always first class.


Stan

[CLS447]

Thanks Stan ! I hate to have to do things over.

I feel relieved that it is about finished. The 447 treated me so well for so long, I want to get another 20 years from this engine.

I can't wait to feel this new engine getting me up to 500ft before I leave the airport.(I hope).

I will register the warranty today & possibly do the break in procedure. I need to do some studying & call Chris Burgess about my flight review. I hope to be sharing a hangar with Larry Boyer at his airport.

I hope to be going places I have never been in this gyro before.(faster too )

I will consider installing the extended range fuel tanks on this single place. I have mounts on the SxS for them but it might be a while before I need them on there.

Now I will be able to spend more time on the SxS & maybe learning to fly my RC chopper. Of course I still have home projects for those rainy days.

Every time I see my brother, I tell him about your Helicycle project. He had money down on a 3rd run machine & then just backed out. I think he could have sold his spot.

I wished he would have built one. He now has a Night Rod Special & is back into riding like he never rode before......go figure ?

[CLS447]

She fired right up ! I think I have one bad CHT sender the other was reverse polarity.

Took a bit of running to get the oil through the tubes. Using 100/1 fuel for break-in.

Set prop pitch for max of 6500rpm. Will run in at next chance.

[CLS447]

Well, no rain fell today, so I did the break-in procedure.

It went great, nothing broke or flew off & went through the prop.

Gotta go....more on this later...Here are some pics..

[CLS447]

OK ...recap time....

1. The oil tank was full prior to engine break-in (small tank) Should be good for 2 tanks of fuel but will probably carry small refill bottle with unless I get a bigger tank.

2. Ivo prop setting was about right with no adjuster tension on the cams. In other words the prop pitch is right for this engine right out of the box !

3. I have one bad CHT sender.

4. Burned about 3.5 gallons on the break-in.

5. Small air bubble under the oil filter bothers me.

6. Prop is invisible !

7. Air speed indicator show zero when not flying.

8. 503 cannot pull out 2 1/2" Hilti drop in anchors at full power !

9. Now that engine is cool, I can retorque heads & exhaust manifold.

10. I kicked in the new prerotator without blades. Should be good for 400 rrpms !

11. Now I can see if I get any radio noise with the new wiring.

12. Call Chris Burgess about getting my flight review. My older brother would also like to get some time with him !

13. Go over whole machine again.....give her a bath & annual inspection & get ready to FLY, FLY, FLY !!!!!!!

Did I miss anything? Any Questions ?

[CLS447]

Today (HAPPY EASTER TO ALL ! ), I will be helping my brother install a new tire on his Night Rod Harley. He got a no mar tire changer & a wheel balancer. I don't know why !

I always get a tire , remove my wheel from my bike, & pay the bike shop $20 to do the tire change & balance.

Anyway, I refilled Larry Boyers' water neutralizer with calcite yesterday(anyone else have acidic well water?) Then we went to see the new home for my gyro. I will be sharing a hangar with Larry.

It is a fantastic airport ! I got to sit in Larry's Eurostar airplane & play with all the switches & gauges on his dash. Then we removed the engine cowl & got to check out a gorgeous 912S engine installation. Let me just say that it is PERFECT ! We also checked out his gyro a bit. It was raining all day. At his house we also checked out his freind Paul's RAF gyro which is getting the carbed 2.2 upgraded to a FI 2.5.

Then he gave me some ground instruction on how to fly that stiff wing. He also helped me with something that I have never really got to do.....Radio talk !

Then we decided to go for lunch. Larry was kind enough to buy & we stopped at a bar/restarant right outside the entrance to the airport. One of my favorite beers was on tap (Victor Hopdevil) http://www.victorybeer.com/hopdevil.html

& I had a great Reuben with fries. This will be my favorite stop after a great evening of flying! On the way home the skies cleared & the sun came out.

First I will retorque my cylinder heads & exhaust manifold, then today I hope to see if my new Icom handheld works well. I am not sure if I got the patchcord for my single seat setup or my Dual=com setup. I already have an extension antenae which I hope not to have to use. But radio noise is my big concern right now.

I have a couple of things that need tidying up & got to do some logbook stuff, but hope to talk to Chris B. tommorrow.

Has anyone had a gyro flight review lately ?

This thread will soon be coming to an end for me & the SxS gyro will be getting all the build attention.
But the little single seater will be getting all the flying done ! That was fun !

PS Our friend Andy has moved his SH1 build to a hangar at Lacaster airport. He wants me to come & help him get er done ! I am hoping to be able to fly down there in my gyro for Saturday work partys & then fly home in the evenings. Great goal for this summer !!!!

[StanFoster]

Chris- I always like reading your posts......always uplifting......and filled with quality. Ol Larry is a special guy...isnt he?.........Hey, I know why you needed a 503.......its because of that big smile that is AlWAYS on your face, it causes more drag!! Cant wait to see your flying report for your SXS, that is really coming together as a sweety machine Chris! You are so particular with everything you do. Thanks for sharing. Stan

[CLS447]

You are right Stan ! Maybe I should use a full face helmet.

Sorry I missed your call & did not get back to you yet. If I don't hear from you , Have a great time at BDs !

I will be getting serious on that SxS build !

[animal]

Looks good Chris. great job. nice detail work.

[CLS447]

Thanks Tim !

Well today I broke out the radio gear. New Icom A14 with patch cord for my dual com.

I WILL be ordering a cord for my single place helmet.

I had a pulsing noise that coincided with the strobe flashing. I unplugged the strobe light output & it stopped. It was showing RX on the screen, which of course means "receiving".

It did the same thing to my Radio Shack hand held CB.

I will call Dick Kuntzleman tommorow & see what he thinks. Maybe ground the driver box to the frame or sell me a new improved strobe or throw the damn thing in the trash! I like to have a strobe though.

The good news is there was no engine noise & I didn't even install the resister Iridium plugs yet !

I AM GOING TO HAVE A FUNCTIONING RADIO !!!!!

I do not like the RAM mount I have for the radio so I will be looking for a new RAM cradle. Anyone know of the best cradle for that radio ????

I have to take my mom to the hospital for her second knee replacement tommorow.

[GyroRon]

Check the squech on the radio, if you turn it up some the Strobe noise might go away.

I took my Dremel tool with a sanding drum to my Ram universal " Clip on " radio mount, and trimmed it down to fit the radio better, fits like a glove now and radio is very secure just with the clip

[Timchick]

Looks really nice, Chris. Here's a photo of my radio mount.

[CLS447]

Ron, thanks ,I did not try that ! I have the universal clip on mount, Can you show me how you modified it ?

I checked out RAM's website & ended up confused. I was going to call them today.

Tim, I consdered a leg mount, but only if I have to.

Here is what seems to be the best one that I found for my radio ????

http://www.ram-mount.com/CatalogResults/PartDetails/tabid/63/partid/082065077045072079076045085078052085/Default.aspx

I also want to get a longer "arm" or maybe a flex arm.

Ron this is the one I have now.....Is this the one you modified ?

http://www.ram-mount.com/CatalogResults/PartDetails/tabid/63/partid/082065077045072079076045066067049085/Default.aspx

[GyroRon]

Yes, that is the one I have. Take a look at the picture in the link you posted. What I did was the top of the mount where the clip is supposed to clip over the plastic piece..... I removed alot of the material off that piece, from the top, making it less thick. I am talking about the part that has " RAM " molded into the plastic, I cut it down to where the top of the piece now is about in the middle of the word RAM, and even made a deeper cutout in the middle where the clips spring parts are, to hold the radio centered and to keep it from wanting to slide around left to right.

I did this mod because the radio was not long enough to even reach the bottom part of the mount ( where on the backside the ball screws on ) and the backside of the top portion was too thick for my clip to fit properly. I studied it and decided to just start grinding with the dremel till I either ruined the piece or got a good fit. I ended up with a perfect fit. Just took a little time. Matter of fact, thinking about it... I used a 1 inch wide belt sander to take most of the material off and the dremel just for the notch in the center

[CLS447]

Thanks Ron, I will have a look at that. I might go with something different, I don't know yet. I got my patch cord ordered today !

Talked to Kuntzleman.....He said to hook up the strobe to a 12 volt battery & use the radio as a noise detection device.

I may end up replacing the output wire to the actual strobe light with shielded wire.

He said just try a clip on ground wire to the driver box to see if that helps any.

I WILL figure this out !

[GyroRon]

Chris, do whatever you want. I didn't find a better Ram mount holder for my radio so I had to make that one work. As I have it now, it couldn't be better. Just had to take away some material. My radio is also a Icom A-14

[CLS447]

Ron, if you read this , Could you please post some pics of the mods to your RAM cradle, with & without the radio mounted.
What else does your radio system have? (antenae, cords, power, etc. )

How is it working for you ?

BTW....The 503 kicks ass !!!

[CLS447]

Ron & all ......I have modified my radio cradle as you suggested. I still don't like the results. Please help !

It needs something else because the radio will easily lift up on the cradle.

Tim C. .....I am really considering your setup.

Here are some pics of the new addition to our family.....Daisy !

The other dogs have taken to her real well already.

I was going to take the camera flying with me last night to get some shots of my new territory, but I went flying with Larry B. in his Sport Star plane & by the time we got back I only had a little time to fly my gyro.

I really like his plane ! I am really loving the 503 on my gyro....it'll fly at 20mph & I can get 70 out of it . At 70 the prop starts to really unload & overspeed. She likes to cruise at 50.

[Dirtydog]

CLS447 :
Looks good! I hope to get there soon............:yo:

[Timchick]

Chris,
It looks like there's a lip on the belt clip. Could you wrap a tiny bungee cord over the lip and down around the ball mount to hold the radio down in the cradle?

[CLS447]

Tim , thanks for the suggestion. I will get it done eventually & it will be secure. I figured that Ron did something special that I was missing.

What GPS are you using ? My birthday is right around the corner & I feel that I have been a good boy !

[Dirtydog]

CLS447 :
My birthday is right around the corner & I feel that I have been a good boy !

I thought that was if you wanted Santa to bring you something:suspicious:

[Timchick]

Tim , thanks for the suggestion. I will get it done eventually & it will be secure. I figured that Ron did something special that I was missing.

What GPS are you using ? My birthday is right around the corner & I feel that I have been a good boy !

I have a Garmin GPSMAP 195 I picked up off ebay. It may not be as fancy as the new ones but it works great for me.

[CLS447]

It's been quite a while since I flew the 503. I need to get back to the airport. We need some GOOD weather for a change !

[CLS447]

Well, the great weather is here & I have been tearing it up ! Tonight I dropped some fuel at a private strip. I got there real quick & didn't need fuel so I flew my neighborhood & buzzed a few friends houses. Then stopped at the private strip & refuel. On the way back I passed on a touch & go at another airport & headed back.

Lots of traffic right at sundown.....glad I have a radio now !

Man, I love that gyro & it just don't get any better than this ! More of this weather is on tap for the whole weekend !

Let me try something.....http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?encType=1&where1=Limerick%2c+PA&FORM=MIRE

Oh well it didn't work . Expand the map & click on aerial & see if you can find my airport !

I love these Bing maps !

[CLS447]

Bringing this back from the dead.