Raf2000 blades!

[joeheli]

I have a friend that is plannig to buy the Raf rotor blade on a Raf2000 but we heard that the old blade was NO GOOD! . Has some one try the new Raf blade? or what blade do you recommend for the Raf2000? :confused:

[StanFoster]

I have the new blades. I traded in my older style last winter for the new style. I had until Dec. 31st to do so. I am quite pleased with them....the others developed small cosmetic cracks. I have never personally flown the older ones.

Stan

[KenSandyEggo]

Jose, the older ones were poorly made in that they were inconsistent. The filler from root to tip was haphazardly installed, with thick spots, thin spots and "No-spots," places where the blades were actually hollow. I saw one cut open. Myself and many others had jack-hammer vibes, from mild to severe and impossible to remove by balancing, tracking, etc. A lot developed cracks, including mine. Knowing what I know about RAFover the last 6 years or so, I wouldn't buy 10 dollar bills from them if they were selling them for 5 dollars. You can't go wrong with Sportcopter blades for the heavy gyros.

[Caribean_gyro]

I will sell you mine make a reasonable offer

[Brian Jackson]

Ken, I never knew that. Man that's frightening. Having read the reports on some of the earlier RAF accidents, is it likely that blade failure could have been the cause? Mangled blades are typical for a gyro crash, but how would an accident investigator know if the blades failed in flight? I remember reading about an incident where a long-time pilot (transport and RAF) was witnessed pitching over to the left and crashing in a near-vertical plunge. If memory serves, one of the rotor blades departed the airframe and was found 180 feet from the crash site. It's hard to imagine a prop strike since eye witnesses reported he was flying straight & level. Granted my knowledge of gyro flight dynamics is limited, but blade failure would seem a worthy candidate. Or am I way off?

Respectfully,
Brian Jackson

[KenSandyEggo]

That's a good question. So far it's been assumed that the blade breaks were due to the blades striking the tail and/or prop. Most show evidence on the blades, prop and tail, but if one didn't????? I don't know if that's ever been the scenario.

[bones]

For what its worth my older brother was killed when his r22 lost a main rotor blade in flight and we found that blade about 200 metres away without a mark on it, and he was only about 100' up when it all started to happen, and as a result the other blade went balistic and cut the rest of the chopper into about ten pieces including the tail boom into three pieces alone, so if the blade was a long way from the crash and with out knowing anymore i would stick my neck out and say that the blade let go.

[joeheli]

Bones ,I am really sorry about your brother!

[bones]

Yeah Joes was a bit of bitch, that was four years ago now and only just got back into flying again, but life has too go on, just got to be as safe as possible, the only thing that i may add to it also is just before the accident happened we were talking about a shake that started as well as the two rev one that was there all the time, of course nobody found it how ever if the blades were x rayed it would have shown up because in the end the blade was only hanging on by about half as per the stains inside the crack, so just pay attention to the feed back through your stick i guess, and if there is something unusual happening that doesnt go away, especially if you fly on another day with different conditions and its stil there and or is getting worse, have it checked very thougherly, the reason that i say on another day ect. is as you probably know that cross winds and other conditions will give feedback, so i guess 'listen and feel' what the machine is trying to say..

[KenSandyEggo]

Mark, I too am sorry about your brother.

That sounds like excellent advice to me about "listening" to your stick. If you think about it, the stick is like the bottom of a funnel and a lot of everything above gets transmitted through it. I just read about a similar R22 crash. The pilot was adjusting something because of a new vibe he felt, but on the next flight he just fell out of the sky. The ship rolled left and then headed straight down.

I couldn't find the one I was thinking of, but here's some of a similar one from NTSB:

"The pilot contacted the control tower at MTC stating he was nine miles south of MTC and he was transitioning through their airspace en route to the Ray Community Airport (57D), Ray, Michigan. The tower issued a squawk code to N103MH. The pilot then reported to the tower that he was experiencing some vibrations. The tower controller asked the pilot if he wanted to land at MTC and the pilot reported he was going to continue to 57D. Shortly thereafter the pilot contacted the tower stating he did not think he could make it to 57D and he wanted to turn around and land at MTC. The controller stated N103MH was two to three miles northwest of MTC at this time. The controller declared an emergency for N103MH and cleared him to land on the south side of the airport.

Witnesses stated they saw N103MH approaching the airport from the northwest. They stated the helicopter was approximately 200 - 300 feet above the ground, flying straight level, and fast. The nose of the helicopter then dropped approximately 60 degrees and the helicopter descended to impact with the terrain."

[Aussie_Paul]

There seems to have been a problem with the r-22 blades due to some owners not keeping accurate records to avoid rotor blade change outs!!! It seems like you cannot cheat with r-22 blades. Pity the poor people who buy the machine thinking that it has only done 1/2 life on the blades when it could be close to change out time!!!

There was a fellow who came through our airport for fuel last year. he was just touring around using up hours as he had to change the blades regardless of Time in service the next week.

He had owned it from new, but that did not seem to matter!!!!

Aussie Paul.:)

[bones]

This one he owned for about three years so he knew the history, they were due to be changed in about 15-20 hrs, in acuall fact he was on his last mustering job before he was going to ferry it down for a complete rebuild, he already had all the gear sitting in engineers hanger to it, so after i had the job of selling about $70 000 worth of gear, just one of those things i think

[Hognose]

Robinson helicopters all have times on them, not just in hours but in years. The whole airframe needs overhaul at 12 years and the only way to do it is back to the factory. (Actually they may have a couple of authorized stations now... it used to be back to the factory).

This is not as unusual as people seem to think. (If you have a fixed-wing with a constant speed prop, it probably has overhaul times stated in hours and years, whichever comes first). And Robbie operators like it because they KNOW when they have to have the machine overhauled. For 90%+ of helo operators, they are corporations using the chopper to make money or save time. Therefore, having your maintenance sched be a known quantity gives them a warm fuzzy.

cheers

-=K=-

[joeheli]

Bones: That teach us a good lesson. Sometimes we are really very desperate to go and fly and maybe we see, or feel something strange on the aircraft and we just say "Oh! nothing is goin to happend", and there when things goes wrong. That teach us another thing: Always do a pre- check every time we go to any fly. Because it was in good condition 1/2 hour ago doesn't guarantee you that it will be the same now. Every time you fly, the engine or blade vibrations or metal stress can make some thing get lose or brake.
So if we want to keep enjoin this sport , "PLEASE DON'T IGNORE ANY THING THAT LOOK, FEELS OR SOUND STRANGE" and "ALWAYS DO PRE-CHECKS EVERY TIME YOU GO TO FLY" because if you don't it that maybe will be the last fly you will be doing IN YOUR LIFE!.

[birdy]

That's a bad yarn Bones,sorta brings you back to earth ay. :(

Like when me "J" stick broke.
I knew it was under engineered and even when I noticed that it was "bending" I still thought "I gotta git this fixed."
Then it broke. :eek:
One set of blades,mast,10 days lost for rebuild and the embaressment of hav'n to admit to my own stupidity. :mad:

Just yesterday I was do'n a bore run in the RAF when I heared one of the blades "whistle" as they wound down.Think'n it was just a bit of bark from the shrub I clipped when I took off from the last bore,I didn't think much of it.But when I had a closer look ,one of the end caps was loose,one screw was half out and the other was loose.
Would'v caused a bit of stick shake if it had come off. :o

[Harry_S.]

You're not just *whistlin* there, Birdy.

By the way; do you have any additional washers on the tips, for static balance or tracking?

[birdy]

Naw Harry,thems extruded alu blades,the end covers are trimmed to mass balance I think.

[tiger737]

Hi carrib gyro,am interested in these blades are they raf2000 new design?any price in mind,thanks.

[Caribean_gyro]

if you are going to buy 30 foot blades I suggest sportcopter . I will sell mine when I get a set of sport copters but right now budget is tight. SO I will hve to use my RAF a bit more.
chuckP

[tomhall]

While at Mentone, I made a fiberglass repair to the 1" crack on my RAF blades. Several smart gyro folks said it was a good repair. A gentleman introduced himself to me said he was a composite engineer working for Burt Rutan ! He said it looked good as well. I flew the repair both solo and with da wife along; all was well. I have decided to purchase Sportcopter blades. It's a confidence thing. $4,600 isn't " chump change " but the price has since gone to $5,000. I may fly the RAF blades until the Sportcopters arrive. I will be offering the RAF blades and hub bar for sale in a couple of months. They are 2002 vintage. Tom T. Hall in MN

[Harry_S.]

A sensible decision Tom...of course you can afford that kind of upgrade. :D

FWIW...your RAF blades would probably be good for another 1000+ hours I'm sure the RAF blades will sell but if they don't, they would be a real good set of spares, just in case??


Cheers :)

[tomhall]

I have found a new home for my RAF blades. I shook hands on the phone last night with a gentleman living somewhat East of Minnesnowta. I hope the Sportcopter blades will be delivered as scheduled ( 6 - 8 weeks ). Tom T. Hall in MN

[dragonflyerthom]

Dang Tom Hall, I was interested in those blades. I was just waiting till you had them for sale.. Oh well, congrats on the sale. I thought you did a great job on the blades. Mark at RAF said that RAF blades are within 1 gram weight on both blades.