PRA Members, Thank you for your vote.

[barnstorm2]

I learned at Mentone that I had won a seat on the PRA Board of Directors.

I am still learning a lot about what the position entails.

I would like to thank everyone that voted and supported me.

My first board meeting was Friday (through Saturday morning..). I had not realized that it would run into the night like it did. I feel for the people that came from other timezones! My wife seemed to mumble some choice words when I woke her up, returning to the tent that night....

I am learning the ropes and don't know much about all of the procedures and responsibilities yet but I did manage to bring a few items to the table.

The complete board meeting minutes are being sent to Rotorcraft magazine. It seems like that would be a lot to print. As an after-thought I was thinking that perhaps the web site might be a better place to publish it.

The board meeting started with a presentation by John Rountree (All_IN) on the software system he would like to help create for the PRA. He has discussed this in detail here on the forum so I suspect many people here know the premise.

It seemed to me that the board was duly impressed and after the presentation we discussed how the project should be implemented.

I won't bore you will all of the details, but I would like to share the motions I brought before the board so that you know what I am doing and I can get some feedback from the membership.

I proposed that the PRA membership fee be reduced from $50.00 to $49.95 to reduce the psychological barrier of $50. Ernie suggested lowering even farther to $47.95. After reviewing the PRA's expenses we found that $47.95 was not feasible and the motion passed unanimously to change the price of PRA membership to $49.95.

A discussion had come up in the past about Life Memberships. Life Memberships are a financial burden to the PRA as they get "free" magazines and postage so long as they live. The system was implemented back in the 1950s and there are HUNDREDS of life members that are costing the PRA $$$ in printing and postage. The number of life members is so great that it was actually described as a 'financial burden' to the PRA.

I suggested that a postcard be added to an upcoming issue of Rotorcraft magazine that would require Life Members to respond, indicating that they are still alive and interested in rotorcraft. Currently we have no idea how many Life members have passed on but still get the mag or have moved on to other hobbies and no longer value the free subscription.

My hope is that we can save the PRA money by sending life membership magazines only to those that are still alive and active in rotorcraft.

The motion passed unanimously.

My only other official action to add to the discussions, was to nominate Rusty Nance for PRA President 2009.

The vote was done by private ballot so I don't know what the numbers were but Rusty won.

Rusty will continue on as PRA President for another term.

I am grateful, proud and honored to work with the other members of the board and now that we have several board members that are active on the forum I think communication will be at an all time high.

Please feel free to make suggestions to me via email at: gyro.pilot@yahoo.com

.

[gyro-3xio]

I'm sure you will do a great job.

I believe you are correct, communication is a big item.
Let's hope it goes both ways, i.e. we the group dialog with you too.

Enjoy the experience.

Jim.

[cgmg]

Tim,

Congratulations for bringing two very good ideas to the table.

The Life member suggestion may save the PRA more than people think. My guess is you will hear back from less than 25% of the Life members.

Keep up the good work!

[Resasi]

Congratulations Tim, you have been contributing to the movement for a while now nice to see some recognition.

[All_In]

I got to congratulate Tim in person! For the record; I could not be more pleased!
It's hard for me to think of a better person to represent us and Tim's skills have already produced results that will automate presentations at next years convention and for now on!!!!

Also please note:
I'm very happy with this BOD's they are really trying so hard, and they have already put PRA in the black allowing the magazine to have some color in every issue from now on.

[Kevin_Richey]

...A discussion had come up in the past
about Life Memberships. Life Memberships are a financial burden to the
PRA as they get "free" magazines and postage so long as they live. The
system was implemented back in the 1950s and there are HUNDREDS of
life members that are costing the PRA $$$ in printing and postage. The
number of life members is so great that it was actually described as a
'financial burden' to the PRA.

I suggested that a postcard be added to an upcoming issue of Rotorcraft
magazine that would require Life Members to respond, indicating that they
are still alive and interested in rotorcraft. Currently we have no idea how
many Life members have passed on but still get the mag or have moved on
to other hobbies and no longer value the free subscription.

My hope is that we can save the PRA money by sending life membership
magazines only to those that are still alive and active in rotorcraft.

The motion passed unanimously.

.

Tim: I have some comments regarding the Life Memberships, since I am
one of "them".

Hearing that those who put a rather large chunk of money into the PRA in
the past are now considered a financial burden makes it seem very unfair to
those who helped support the PRA in the past.

I have read similar comments in the past on this forum and wondered why
nobody expressed otherwise.

When I had been a PRA member for a couple of years, I decided to send
in my $300 for a Life Membership for two reasons. First was that I
calculated that I would definitely be interested and involved in rotary wing
flight for many decades, and I had seen the yearly amount jump from $15,
to $18, then to $22. I saw that 14 years away, my membership would be
free thereafter, if I was willing to give a much larger amount now.

It had also been printed with each issue where the dues were explained that Life Memberships might be asked to pay for postage in the future.

Second, I deduced that the PRA needed the financial shot in the arm by
offering these memberships, receiving a large infusion of cash from each person who chose to do so.

Additionally, the value of these Life Memberships was appreciated by the PRA, since voting rights for board members was reserved for Life Members.

It was a financial sacrifice for me to send in that $300. My wife had
informed me several months earlier that she wanted a divorce and I was in
a financial bind with me having an additional household to pay for, in
addition to child support. And, the next month after I sent in the amount, I
lost my job!

I feel that the Life Members who stood up for the PRA in spirit as well as financially, were given the rewards of voting privileges and free membership after a decade and a half away.

When I have viewed the names of other Life Members, when they were occasionally sent out, I saw many of the old timers who have made the PRA what it is. Board members and PRA elected officers are also included. I suspect that many of the board who each more recently added $1,000 into the treasury to help the budget crunch are mostly, if not all Life Members.

I believe that the Life Membership should still be offered! It would provide a goodly amount of cash infusion into the coffers to enable the PRA to move forward into attracting more members. This could be done by providing more attractions for members, such as all color in the magazine, better content in such, and financial incentives for PRA members, such as insurance, scholarships, and affinity credit cards that could be fund raisers for the treasury, etc.

The idea to stop sending ROTORCRAFT magazine to those who don’t respond to the postcards is a good one, but calling the Life Members a financial burden is wrong, since they stood up for the PRA.

Start charging the Life Members postage, since that was always mentioned as a possibility in each magazine under the rates category.

I think that if it weren’t for the Life Members paying a large chunk of change in the past for future benefits, the PRA wouldn’t have survived as long as it has.

[Thumpernator]

Tim,

I Second what Kevin said. The Life Members sure weren't a burden when the PRA was promoting them. Instead of trying to get the Life Members to pay postage for the magazine (which BTW, was not mentioned or even suggested the year I became a LM), why not put the magazine on the internet, available only to Members, with the option to quit getting the paper version. You may find a lot of the non-burden members opting out of the paper copy.

[GyroRon]

I thrid what Kevin said even though I am not a life member myself.

I personally think the PRA needs to grow beyond a magazine subscription, which is what it is to many people at this point. I have tossed the notion around several times to several people, that I believe making the magazine viewable online only at a reduced rate would bring in more money overall then trying to get more people to pay 50$( or 49.95$ ) per year for a magazine with 6-8 issues.

Offer a membership at 20-25$ per year that grants you status as a "PRA Member".... Gives you a slightly reduced rate at PRA sponsored functions such as the Mentone convention.... and gives you access to the PRA website which could have a digital version of the magazine viewable there. I believe you would triple the number of members easily by doing this.

[barnstorm2]

Thank you very much guys!

Kevin,

I don't have time at the moment to give you a complete answer with all of my thoughts on this issue.

I understand that giving a chunk of money in a lump sum for the lifetime membership was a sacrifice for most life members.

I was not around when the life membership program was started many years ago. Thus I don't know what the situation was when it was implemented.

I can assure you that I do not want to see a loss of commitment and support from the PRA to the life members nor do I want to see the life members stop supporting the PRA.

What I do know is the situation now. And that situation is that we have a large body of members that are costing the PRA postage and magazine subscriptions.

If (and I suspect strongly that this is the case) a percentage of life members have passed away and the magazine intended for these members is being treated as junk mail or some of the past life members have gone on to other interests, then we are spending considerable money on a wasted effort.

The post card reply will let us know how many life members are still interested in actively participating in the PRA.

The idea to stop sending ROTORCRAFT magazine to those who don’t respond to the postcards is a good one, but calling the Life Members a financial burden is wrong, since they stood up for the PRA.

Start charging the Life Members postage, since that was always mentioned as a possibility in each magazine under the rates category.

I think that if it weren’t for the Life Members paying a large chunk of change in the past for future benefits, the PRA wouldn’t have survived as long as it has.

I agree that the life members stood up and sent in money when it was needed. Although, I suspect some looked at it as a way to SAVE money if they planned on being in the PRA for an extended length of time.

Was the life membership system like the PRA eating crop seeds instead of planting them? Was it a future benefit for long term members but future penalty for the PRA? Perhaps a cap should have been placed on the number of life membership positions before it grew so large? I don't know. I try not to confuse 20/20 hindsight with judgement of past situations.

What I do know is this:

The PRA can't help the life members by wasting effort and money on members that are no longer alive or no longer wish to be active.

I suspect many of those life members that are active, want the PRA to honor the spirit of the life membership and act in the best interests of the organization.





.

[barnstorm2]

Tim,

I Second what Kevin said. The Life Members sure weren't a burden when the PRA was promoting them. Instead of trying to get the Life Members to pay postage for the magazine (which BTW, was not mentioned or even suggested the year I became a LM), why not put the magazine on the internet, available only to Members, with the option to quit getting the paper version. You may find a lot of the non-burden members opting out of the paper copy.

I think this is an option worth exploring and it is being explored in what ALL_IN is proposing to contribute. Things are in the beginning of the planning stages and I am interested to see how they develop.

The bottom line is however, we can only do what we can afford to do and sometimes to do things right changes don't happen over night.

As mentioned the life membership holders tend to be the older founding crew of the PRA and they have a high percentage of non-computer users I bet.

.

[All_In]

Hi guys there may be some misunderstanding; no one, Tim included, wants to reduce lifetime members benefits. All he's really suggesting is an audit of who is alive or not in a long term comma etc. Tim knows and appreciates your current participation with PRA and all of us learn from your experience which makes it more than worth the cost as you are one of our most valuable assets.

If we don't become profitable we are going to lose PRA. That Tim's real concern trying to help PRA and all lifetime members too. If PRA goes belly up, it won't matter much.

But there are many things just beginning that you will soon see and if we all help it will be very easy for us not to worry about the postage for lifetime members anymore. Please give us a chance.

However please understand Tim's audit needs to be automated and done every year as our demographic are in an age group that really does require this. No one can afford to mail things to dead people?:noidea:

[Pam Bundy]

Tim & John,

In the 10 years that I worked for P.R.A., the past treasurer and I did this very audit with the Life Members a few times. There was only one Life Member that we found that had passed. Actually, he had just been killed in a Gyro accident when we contacted his household (widow). That was a disturbing phone call. :Cry:

Anyway, what I did to find out who to contact about their Life Memberships was take a look at the list of Life Members in the database, recognize who were active members and then sent a pre-typed email to those Life Members that the P.R.A. had email addresses for, and sent the rest of them the same letter by mail. There were those who sent back saying that they were to old to fly anymore but, they still enjoyed reading their P.R.A. magazine. When the P.R.A. stopped selling Life Memberships, and I quit working for the P.R.A. in 2006, the Life Member count was 218. In 2007 the treasurer of P.R.A. purchased a Life Membership for $1000. That would have made the count 219.

My point to all this is that the past treasurer and I were surprised that there weren't the numbers of deceased or non-participating Life Members that we thought that there might be. We attributed it to the work of the US Postal System with the P.R.A.'s Periodical Mailing Permit. Anytime a member moves and puts in a change of address at their Post Office or a member passes away and their survivors contact their Post Office with a deceased notice, those Post Offices would return notification back to the P.R.A. Most of the time the P.R.A. Office was notified directly by the member's family.

I think that another less costly way to contact the Life Members about their memberships would be to publish something to this regard in the next issue of the magazine as opposed to doing a separate Post Card mailing. Which, by the way, P.R.A.'s mailing permit does not include special postage pricing for Post Cards, unfortunately.

What are your thoughts on this matter?

Thanks,
Pam Bundy

[fiveboy]

I think Thumpernatprs suggestion of making the magazine an online members only affair is an excellent one.

There is a magazine called ReelScreen that is the industry rag for Documentary TV and thats what they do. It affords better color, better layout options, quicker delivery, an increased sense of being a members only value added proposition that is exclusive, and even could have embedded links to streaming video in it. It will also reduce the cost of producing the magazine by a huge magnitudes of order. If the members who dont have computers cant see the mag then thats the price of progress and saving the org.

I think this should be seriously considered and not glossed.

Reducing the membership fee is opposite the direction needed.

There are also a host of other ways to increase revenue which I have suggested ad nauseaum but which fall on deaf ears. Seems its easy to complain but few are willing to do anything that is outside the box or a call to arms.

Tim I think its GREAT that you are communication the way you are and soliciting ideas to implement.

Thanks

Fiveboy
Future life-long member whether life-long memberships exist or not.

[barnstorm2]

Thank you Five!

I agree but it is a complex issue and task that is going to take a number of educated steps to achieve. The age distribution of the PRA membership is not one that is conducive to quick computerization. All_In has a project on the way that will get us started though.

Pam,

The postcard is not to my knowledge intended to be sent as a separate mailing.

Also, it is not just a matter of finding out who is still alive but also who intends to remain an active participant in the PRA.

The last life member meeting consisted of only a handful of people.

The life members include people that I would consider the founders and the keepers of the PRA for many years.

There are many reasons that we should know the level of activity and participation of life members, besides just the postage and printing issues.

It is good to know we should not expect to see a large drop out due to deceased members though!

[Pam Bundy]

Also, it is not just a matter of finding out who is still alive but also who intends to remain an active participant in the PRA.

The last life member meeting consisted of only a handful of people.

The life members include people that I would consider the founders and the keepers of the PRA for many years.

There are many reasons that we should know the level of activity and participation of life members, besides just the postage and printing issues.

It is good to know we should not expect to see a large drop out due to deceased members though!

Tim,

I'm not sure of what you mean by "active participant in the P.R.A.", but the active participation that I experienced at any given time over the last twelve years was only about 20% of the whole membership. Whether it be at a Life Membership meeting, a General Membership meeting or members exercising their right to vote. A few years ago, the lack of participation of the Life Members is what helped the Board of Directors of P.R.A. decide to expand the pool of possible candidates to run for the BoD, by allowing members to be eligible if they had been a member for 5 consecutive years or more.

As to your thoughts of "there are many reasons that P.R.A. should know the level of activity and participation of Life Members", I totally agree. Especially since the Life Membership doesn't hold the same prestige that it once used to.

I agree with you that SOME Life Members could be considered the founders and keepers of P.R.A. for many years, however, Glenn and I have always gotten into a debate on this subject, because I always felt that there was some serious oversight of recognition of the real members of P.R.A. Members with two, three, or four digit P.R.A. numbers (like Paul Bergen Abbott) for instance, being yearly dues paying members for over 35 years. Now those are the keepers of P.R.A. for many years.

I would like to hear your thought on this matter.

Thanks,
Pam Bundy

[garybuster]

Hmmmm... and now the reality of the GG Mentone legacy is only beginning to raise it's ugly head...

Ok... the board chose to follow GG's lead to purchase the airport with the funds we had/ and were receiving for a 10 year timeline... and now the board is having to tighten their collective belts to pay the bills...

Seems like we've stolen from Peter to pay Paul... now ya gotta live with it. NOT going to debate if we should or should not have taken on the financial burden... BUT, I'll be DANGED if I'm going to feel bad about the financial woes of the group when we were SCREAMING at the top of our lungs about the fiscal INSANITY of GG's pet project. (Our perception, of course!)

As I recall... Lemmings over a cliff best described the fiscal responsibility of that timeline.

I agree to trim the fat from the roles... even the digital mailing would be fun for a bit... but a hardcopy magazine is the essential calling card of our organization. Can't get the digital copy's readability to spread through an uneducated population the way a magazine laying on the coffee table can.

The REAL financial "burden" we deal with today actually occurred in an administration a decade ago.

Gary Buster
Tyler Texas

[All_In]

Hi Gary were are going to have both. The mag is safe and only going to get better with more color photos. The the hard copy portion of the online Mag probably will only be available to Members after logging in. There will be different and other material available to all on the on-line Mag for non-members too.
The final from is not SET at all and must be approved before we can tell you or even know which version it will be.
This is a low priority, so it might be a while. But it's coming!!

[gyro-3xio]

[QUOTE=barnstorm2;243830

A discussion had come up in the past about Life Memberships. Life Memberships are a financial burden to the PRA as they get "free" magazines and postage so long as they live. The system was implemented back in the 1950s and there are HUNDREDS of life members that are costing the PRA $$$ in printing and postage. The number of life members is so great that it was actually described as a 'financial burden' to the PRA.

I suggested that a postcard be added to an upcoming issue of Rotorcraft magazine that would require Life Members to respond, indicating that they are still alive and interested in rotorcraft. Currently we have no idea how many Life members have passed on but still get the mag or have moved on to other hobbies and no longer value the free subscription.

My hope is that we can save the PRA money by sending life membership magazines only to those that are still alive and active in rotorcraft.

The motion passed unanimously.]



Tim,

This next comment is not against you. But rather a rather dismal viewpoint of PRA.
I am only an insignificant newbie. Member of PRA for only 2 years.

Reading the first paragraph above is somewhat un-nerving.
"They are a burden to PRA since they get free mags and postage as long as they live."

Huh???

They PAID for it...... up front!! There is nothing free about this!!

PRA offered it, the life members parted with their hard earned cash to support PRA. Perhaps even at a time when they had kids, mortgages, new to their jobs, etc. It probably was a big deal for the new Life Member back then too. Each of them parted with their cash because they BELIEVED in PRA and it's cause.

This (for PRA) is a "having your cake and eating it too" scenario.

Surely someone on the BOD has consulted with a lawyer about honoring life memberships. I bet you have no choice but to honor every one of them.

If a said life member bought a life membership and got killed in a car accident 2 or 3 years later, would PRA have gone to the widow and said, here is 80% of the deceased life membership & returned it? I think NOT.

However you look at it,....it "appears" that PRA is begging Life Members to rescind their relationship with the PRA for PRA's benefit. (if they are still alive)

Doesn't this sound rather "screwed up." (had another {choice} word for this)

This would be the same as if I sent in my dues for January 1st, and then PRA decides to send out a post card in June of that year saying, "Hey Jim,...We would like to know if you're still active & want to continue to receive your "free" magazine? ....
The difference here is only the length of time involved in both situations.

Postage is the cost of doing business. Why doesn't the PRA go to it's local utility in Mentone and tell them that the hydro bill is a burden?
I assure you, whether it is hydro or postage,... the results will be the same.
PRA will take a hit in the groin in either case.

That is my rant. Thank-you for listening.

Keep up the good work Tim.

Jim.

[TomCarlisle]

Hi Dave and Gary. It's good to hear from you. This whole thread sounds exactly like the problems faceing Social Security! When you pre-pay for something, you expect it to be honored!

[StanFoster]

Of course the life members contract should be honored...and gratefully! They kicked in a large sum of upfront money, to boost the PRA, in return hoping to at least break even by being alive long enough to make their "red" investment upfront..turn into an investment in the "black" down the road.


Most hands on sports membership rosters are getting older and greyer by the year.

I joined the NMLRA...national muzzleloading and rifle association when I was 29 and considered young. I loved being associated with other people that built their own rifles from scratch and competed with them. I quickly noticed that our group was dwindling each year....and it still is in a death spiral.

Same situation here in the PRA. There just arent enough of the hands on types out their in our young generation. Perfect examples of these hands on types that "get er done" are Matt Novotney, Adam Helwich, Nick Costa, Ron Awad, and many others here that are hands on and loving the rewards of building their own flying machine. But....there just arent enough of the new generation coming on that have acquired the passion of working with their hands creating something.


Somehow we have to expose our passion for this awesome sport to the younger set. Many of us here go to fly-ins...do demos....many give rides.....etc....promoting this sport.


I am optimistic that with the new efforts by All-in....that our bottom line will increase through marketing...and this can then feed back on itself with more advertising of our events and get this well kept secret out to the world...so they can participate and enjoy.

Stan

[barnstorm2]

I agree with you that SOME Life Members could be considered the founders and keepers of P.R.A. for many years, however, Glenn and I have always gotten into a debate on this subject, because I always felt that there was some serious oversight of recognition of the real members of P.R.A. Members with two, three, or four digit P.R.A. numbers (like Paul Bergen Abbott) for instance, being yearly dues paying members for over 35 years. Now those are the keepers of P.R.A. for many years.

I would like to hear your thought on this matter.

Thanks,
Pam Bundy

Pam,

I am actually working on a similar project.

I am going to be working with Ernie and Rick Gilley to bring a volunteer recognition system to the PRA. It is still in the planning stages but I expect it will start with a Rotorcraft article asking members to nominate volunteers for recognition.

You could lend invaluable information to this information gathering process. I hope you will take the time to participate!

.

[Mistral]

A hardcopy magazine is the essential calling card of our organization. Can't get the digital copy's readability to spread through an uneducated population the way a magazine laying on the coffee table can.


Gary:
I doubt many have developed an interest in rotorcraft only by picking up a magazine at the local dentist or doctor.
Heck, I have never seen the PRA magazine anywhere in the world but in my mailbox. Not even in the magazine lounge at Barnes & Noble.
And in its current form it would be more of a turn off than a turn on.

[barnstorm2]

I would LOVE to go all digital with the magazine with the option to get a printed version or just print out my own printed version. However, this issue is not as simple as a first glance makes it out to be.

Just some of the issues involved that many are not taking into consideration are:

We here on the forum are all to a greater or lessor extent computer savvy. There is a LARGER portion of the PRA membership that does not frequent the forum and are not happy with the thought of using the internet to get the magazine. When I bring this issue up to PRA members that are not forum members I get a STRONG negative response to going digital with the magazine.

Many computer savvy PRA members (for various reasons) still want to have a printed copy, bound and sent to them.

The cost of printing (per magazine) does NOT go down when you print less, it goes UP. If say 1/3 of PRA members went digital then it would cost us MORE $ then we are spending now to print issues for the remaining 2/3's of the membership. Then of course the people getting the digital membership will be wanting to pay LESS for their membership then those getting a printed copy and wack! income down, expenses way up. Not a good idea.

The way to solve this problem is to increase PRA membership and leverage the PRA web site and publications for promotion and revenue.

John Roundtree's (All_In) project which is backed by the PRA board is a sound first step in achieving this goal.

If all of the well-intentioned posters on this forum would get with John and volunteer some time and effort for his project we can make this and more a reality.

Its is not going to happen overnight and it is not going to be everything to everyone on the first go-around but with YOUR HELP it will happen and it will be great.

.

[All_In]

You and I and most of the BOD is on the same page.

Volunteers are what are holding us back today. We need editors yesterday.

Just so the rest of you know what Tim’s and the BOD’s basic outline is. Final approval by the BOD will be needed but the prototypes are being developed today for approval in all areas.

1) Writing, collecting articles and publishing the Mag will be automated and an on-line version will include even more articles and some past articles. Members will be able to read all of the mag's ever written eventually. Non-members will have to join to read the rest of a current article or past mags.

2) We are going to make the magazine profitable on it’s own with direct marketing Ads by commission salesmen. In 2 years or less the Mag will be a moneymaker on it’s own!! You'll see. Many of our easy plans just starting to take place now.

3) PRA online Storefront = more worldwide profit from sales and PRA members will be encouraged to sell they own products also.

4) Direct marketing of PRA memberships at cross marketing events and Air-shows by local members and recruitment of new members to local chapters with a information pack that will become the $50.00 product we are selling and the mag and other benefits freebie’s for the new members joining.

5) We are automating every bit of labor out of PRA we can. This may not reduce costs but it will make marketing and organization much more effective with auto emails to members etc.

6) Provide the same on-line organization and marketing tools to every chapter and teach them how to market our sport locally.

If you want to be part of the team that really makes a difference then you should join our team TODAY!

That’s just to start!!
We need you!!!!

[Mistral]

Good job, John and Tim. Keep up the good work.
And yes I will contribute whatever useful skill I may have.
My email is of record.

[barnstorm2]

Good job, John and Tim. Keep up the good work.
And yes I will contribute whatever useful skill I may have.
My email is of record.

Fantastic! Thanks!

[Heron]

I would love to have an Assn like PRA (memberwise) and exploit commercialy its potencial.
Tim I would vote for ya! Lots of good options the last elections.
The LM membershil should be by now a small percentage of the entire group. Nothing to worry about.
The electronic magazine is an old aspiratiom of mine . . .no ears so far.
Give me that job and I will take a comission from the profits . . .
I mean the PRA e-commerce and such . . .
Heron