How to Make a Better Magazine

[ToddP]

Ralph Taggart recently made a post suggesting that the decline in PRA membership might be directly linked to the decreasing quality of the magazine. So lets here what people have to say. What would make a better magazine for you?

[StanFoster]

Todd: I am very satisfied with the magazine. I really like the articles dealing with aerodynamics...stability...etc. More articles on individuals and their machines would be nice.

Stan

[ToddP]

Here are the things I like to see. Good coverage of the fly-ins. Lots of pictures and a nicely written article.

New technology, I love to read about advances in the gyroplane world. I think we should be reading more about the New Sparrowhawk design, The Monarch and Butterfly.

Manufacturers - Lets see some stories about the manufacturers. We've all contacted these people but lets see some stories about how they got started, why the were driven to the designs they make today.

Completions - This is without a doubt my favorite part of kitplanes magazine. Lets have it in our Rotorcraft magazine. Lets have some pictures and details just like kitplanes.

Ask the experts column - Lets have a column to ask the experts questions about building techniques, setup etc. If no one writes in, there are plenty of good questions here on the forum, pull from these.

Those are my ideas

So while I'm on a roll, I'm going to talk about what I'm tired of seeing.

Endless articles about aerodynamics, pitch stability, the dangers of gyros. I certainly appreciate that Greg Gremminger has a deep in depth understanding of gyrocopter physics but quite frankly, I've never made it through one his articles. I understand that this deep technical writing is appealing to some, but I can guarantee that less than 20% of the members ever make it all the way through one of those articles. Also, how much ink has kitplanes magazine used to talk about the dangers of experimental aircraft and how many people have been killed by different models?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't we been through the Ortmayer training series once already? Is this a repeat just to fill pages? Lets have some articles from people that recently went through training, what worked for them or didn't.

I'd like to see an article about Ernie and his blades. How did he come up with the design, whats involved in making them, how are the tested, setup tracked etc. etc.

Lets have some articles about setting up our machines. How about a good article on doing a hang test or even the double hang test.

How about an article on stringing your blades with a side bar on how to sling your blades.

People love to talk about engines, lets have some articles on alternative power plants. Lets have some articles about how to maintain our Rotax Engines. How about a good step by step guide on decarboning your rotax head.

I would be happy to contribute, heck I'll write an article about the forum if they want.

I kind of got on a roll there...who's next?

[gyroblackwell]

Points concerning the magazine that were brought up at the general members, life-time members, and board meetings are as follows:

many asked that some of the older articles from past mag's be reprinted for the newbies. only one per month though.

one comment was less pictures and more articles.

more articles on manufactures, and what they sell.

more articles on club events, flyins, who's building what, etc.

less articles picking on a certain design, or lack of proper equipment ... enough with the stab comments. CLT comments, we all know and understand. (I feel that any newbie that asks about these features will instantly get an ear-full from any PRA member that has been around for longer then 6 months! )


I will post more as they come to me. Alot was discussed, and now the proof will be in the writings of the PRA mag.

[Dean_Dolph]

Todd, it is my belief that the PRA leadership would welcome your assistance in several areas (your name was mentioned at Mentone, were your ears burning?) and since you have started this thread then I'm going to assume that you will compile what is collected and send it to Rick Gilley.

Now, there are some things that you mentioned that you don't care for that I do. How will that issue be resolved? It is already recognized that the mag isn't going to satisfy 100% of us 100% of the time.

It was suggested before, and again this year, that there are technical articles from years past that are still relevant and should be recycled for the benefit of our new people. New tech articles are what I want to see and you have addressed that in your list. That and builders tips.

We need to remember that there is the issue of the expense of publishing the magazine so it can only be so big and color is expensive. It has only been in the recent past that the mag even had color. I'm hoping Rick will write an article explaining how the mag is put together and what the costs are. In my conversation with him he didn't get specific on cost but some of the details were eye openers.

I can see from your list that there are items IMO that could be a regular feature and others that would only appear occasionally.

I don't believe that the Ortmayer articles have been recycled. It just appears that way because there are so many of them. If you are right then I would agree we don't need a recycle.

Okay, it is time for you to start on you mag article :D

[ToddP]

I know we're not going to all agree. Half my reason for throwing out the things I don't care for were to find out if others did.

I've already sent off an e-mail to Rick Gilley telling him about this thread and asking him to join us. I hope he will. Reading the PRA website in regards to the magazine, it sounds like he is very receptive to receiving articles.

[Dean_Dolph]

Tim, you are now in a position where you can have an impact on what direction the mag takes. It is my understanding that there were problems in the past with the mag not following the path the Board preferred. Rick indicated to me that what we want is what we will get, within reason of course.

We all need to remember that the PRA and its mag serves an international membership and like Ralph has mentioned in another thread, most members do not belong to a chapter or otherwise interact with other PRA members. Consequently we can not assume that all members will get the necessary info. Thus there is a responsibility to pass on all safety related info, which includes the stability issues, via the mag.

The club and other local activities are valuable and are part of our communication. But for them to appear in the mag that means someone local needs to write them up! The mag editor is just that, the editor not the author of articles.

[Screw]

Screw-In

I like the pictures. Some of the reading is very dry, and old. I guess differant needs for differant speeds.

Some ideas for spicing up the mag:

1. Gyro Calender! Gyro of the month kind of thing with all the details on that particular gyro. "Snap On" Calendars would be a great Calender to duplicate with gyros. Enclude upcomming events in the calender. Wait! Since the mag comes out monthly, do a Gyro centerfold with the next months calendar of events!

2. Gossip column! Get exclusives on our favorite members to include scandels! Love life, affairs with other gyros.

3. Get new advertisers that will do work like paint, fabric, engine rebuilds! Based on current advertising, I know RAF, Groen Bros Aviation, Rotorflight Dynamics, but I can't find anyone who will make me a tail, cover it, or paint it!

The way the mag reads is very dry to me. Don't get me wrong, there is great info in the mag, but it's written in a very dry way. Kinda like the Air regs (Written by lawyers for lawyers).

My thoughts.

Screw-Out

[ToddP]

How about a monthly - "On the Web" column. Simply a column that sums up some of the discussions on this forum as well as the Australian and UK forums.

[PW_Plack]

Rotorcraft appears to have fallen into the trap of carrying articles enjoyed mostly by the small circle of people who contribute them, and the circle keeps getting smaller as a result. There are only two basic points of appeal left, pictures, and in-depth technical discussions.

Personally? Here goes...

I'd like to see what gyroplane enthusiasts are doing with their machines. Not just the Andy Keech / Dr. Bill record attempts, but the mustering, the informal cross-country flights and fly-ins like SX Days. After all, did you build your machine just to talk about building it, or to fly it somewhere?

I'd like to see a monthly, step-by-step breakdown of a flight plan for a challenging cross-country, somewhere we'd all like to go. Many gyro pilots get little practice with communication, so include details on how to interact with towers, ground control, and ATC in controlled airspace.

I'm fascinated with the new avionics technologies, which are becoming less expensive all the time. I'd love to read reviews of them, and examples of how they're being used.

It seems as if engine failures are a more common hazard to most gyro pilots than thrustline offset issues, so let's have some coverage of how we can make them more reliable. I'd like to read a question-answer session with a Rotax expert on how redundant fuel pumps should be configured.

As for the back issues of Rotorcraft, all that history should be archived and indexed on the PRA website, not dribbled out an article at a time in the new magazines. (I don't think there should be a charge for this...PRA should do it to restore its own credibility.) Perhaps the new issues could have color covers, maybe an insert, and the rest of the pages be in black-&-white, to save money.

Now, tell me...would we be having this discussion on a PRA forum? ;)

[scottessex]

I think members should submit articles. Articles about building your gyro, your first solo, improvements that you have made etc. Most people are busy, but perhaps some member submissions of 500 words or more, would be nice.
I will start documenting my Suzuki conversion, with the plan to do an article when it is finished. :)
I might even put an ad in there for gyro painting, as soon as I get the spray booth set up. :)

[Chuck Irby]

I agree with most of the aforementioned changes, but especially with those listed in Todd's post #3 and those listed in Paul Plack's post.

[Caribean_gyro]

The articles get too long to be published. mine took 6 month. I will like to see the Web function as it was ment. convey information and link enthusiast around the world. There is more inf activites and involvement in this forum that in any other place.

If you know your article will be posted in the web and evenmtually in to the magazine this will motivate you to write them. Hell it will give you inputs faster and you can correct or improved the article before it goes in to paper.

That is my 1.5 cents
ChuckP

[Rando]

I wrote an article about a model gyrokite called "GyroRaptor". I purchased one, fly it whenever it is too windy to fly my Dominator and have a blast with it! I thought that members might enjoy reading about it and maybe purchase one since it is a good way to show other people how a gyroplane works. I have no connections with the designer, just a satisfied customer.

The article and photos were never published. That was my first and LAST article that I will submit!

http://www.ezdenver.com/gyroraptor/

[barnstorm2]

As stated at Mentone, the editor has to have articles submitted in order to publish them. Submit the kind of articles you want to see and they will get published and we will all be the better for it.

As some of you may know I submit articles to Rotorcraft every month and I am always looking for topics that are both interesting and hopefully helpful to the readership. I however do not have the expertise to cover most highly technical articles.

Todd mentioned that he does not like "Endless articles about aerodynamics, pitch stability, the dangers of gyros" and I have heard that this is a VERY common feedback. However, Paul says he likes the " in-depth technical discussions" so we have to have a well balanced mix.

I would love to start doing some product reviews. If a couple of you guys would join me in a 'reviewers' series I would like to contact mfgrs about loaning us some product and each of us ( at least 3 ) would try the product, write a BRIEF pros/cons and compile each of the reviews into an article.

If someone would like to see something written, have material but don't have the time to write it up email me and I would be happy to co-write the article with you.

[Ralph]

(1) First off, we can completely dump the color. It is VERY expensive and was introduced when our membership/circulation numbers were very strong. We are not competing with other publications and I would bet that most members would prefer an additional issue or two each year to fewer issues in color.

(2) The magazine cannot function without member input. Paul strongly solicited input in ANY form. You could send in some sketches of a few photos and scrawl something on the back of an envelope. Paul would turn it into an article under your byline.

(3) Do a better job with fly-in reports. Now we have a few big color shots and miss most of the gyros that were there. Use to be that we had smaller photos, but almost all the gyros on the flight line got pictured. It was a great incentive to attend fly-ins if you knew your machine would be in the magazine. Given how few machines are actually showing up these days, that will make the job much easier then it used to be.

(4) Have more personal building and flying stories. That is the kind of stuff that keeps the dream alive and it is also highly readable by anyone. Most of us do this for the sheer adventure of it all and some of that should come through.

(5) Cut back on the snake oil pitches. This last issue had a whole page devoted to the Hofstra CD. It posed as an article but, in fact, was an ad. A few issues back it seemed half that half the magazine was devoted to a coaxial helicopter that was still in development. It was one continuous flow of hype, straight from the company's PR desk. Do we want to know about what's being developed? Sure, but dont flood the magazine with a huge promotional piece posing as an article.

(6) Safety and technical stuff is essential, but use creative editing to lighten the material up and make it more readable. Nobody likes to be lectured to, especially for 4 or 5 pages!

(7) Current issues are flooded with useless "white space", in part to obscure the fact that there is comparatively little stuff in any particular issue. Go ahead and firm up the issues with some older stuff (some of which is superior to what's being put out today) until it is possible to jump-start the flow of fresh material.

(8) Look over some of the issues of Mel's "Fly Gyro". He had some great ideas - including his "chats" with designers and others.

(9) A "Completions" section would be great. Nothing helps more to get through the complexities of building a machine then seeing others finishing up and enjoying success.

(10) Maybe there are some areas, such as engines, where you could have a regular column or two. A Questions column would also be great. The editior would not have to answer all the question - many, particularly the technical ones, could be farmed out to folks with real answers.

There are lots of other possibilities, but a successful magazine has to be diverse, readable, lively, and entertaining.

Ralph

[Chuck Irby]

I totally agree with Ralph.

[Rando]

Why can't Rotorcraft be sold at the magazine rack in bookstores? I would think it would increase membership and revenue.

[Chuck Irby]

Randy, I suspect that too few would be sold. It would probably be a loosing proposition.

[barnstorm2]

I would NOT want Rotorcraft to go black and white.

Rotorcraft has published all but ONE article that has been submitted since the new editor has taken over.

Everyone who has finished a machine since the begining of this year send me a photo and details. I will write the story.

[Chuck Irby]

Tim, if it would save a lot of bucks to print the mag in b&w, and the website was what it should be, then we could see the machines in color on the web site. Just a thought.

[barnstorm2]

Chuck,

For you and me that is great, but Fourm members are a minority of the membership. The magazine is a big draw for members and pictures are high on the list of things people like about the magazine. Reducing the quality of the pictures reduces the magazines most popular aspect. IMHO B&W picts would reduce the magazine to 'newsletter' status.

[Heron]

You guys rock . . .more power to you!!
A Chapter's Corner would be nice.
Gyro Pearls for the bloomers.
This Forum sinopsys and highlights will give subjects if they don't have the articles
Introduction of the chapters (new, projects and progress)
. . .but it is not a bad magazine I liked it!!
Heron

[Ralph]

Tim:

People to not join the PRA because the magazine is in color. It is nice but it is a luxury. Take a look at some issues just before we started adding color and see if you can honestly say that current issues are of higher quality. Dump color and you can have more pictures and/or more issues. Build the membership back up to 5K and you can put the color back. If we were competing with other publications, it might be different, but we aren't! It is substance, not glitz, that will rebuild the membership.

I have no intention of beating up on Rick or anyone else who is working to get the magazine out each time. Rick inherited a mess that had developed over a number of years. On the other hand, if you are going to rebuild the magazine, you should have a clear sense of priorities. This thread can be useful in hammering out a consensus. If a consensus can be reached as to what is most important, it would be foolish to ignore it.

Randy:

Right now we can print essentially as many issues as we need each month. If we were to go to magazine racks sales, you have to print a lot more (with no sure idea about total sales) with additional distribution costs. Unless the publication is an astounding success, you go broke very quickly. Most new special-interst magazines go under after the first few issues.

Besides, if we did succeed, I could buy the magazine and NOT join up. That is why you will never see EAA magazines out there for general distribution.

Ralph

[KenSandyEggo]

I had a similar experience as Randy when I sent in a photo tour with awesome photos. They're still on my website in the photo section under "Bay Pics." I did a narrative about what each pic showed. My article was published, but with only 2 miniscule photos. The narrative made absolutely no sense without the photos. Of course, that was 2 or 3 editors ago, so maybe I'll try again.

[ToddP]

I think we all need to give Rick the benefit of the doubt here and submit some articles. Even if you were shunned in the past, give it another try.

[barnstorm2]

Remember that digital photos must be of high resolution. Photos that have been published elsewhere ( even on the web ) are a potential hassle to publications so don't send anything in that you have posted or submitted elsewhere.

[MGman]

1. I agree with some other comments above about publishing some of the inputs from the Forum members - since the magazine is international, even some of the inputs from Australia and other countries. Some of Birdy's descriptions of his mustering experiences are not only hilarious, but very informative about another way of using the Gyro. Many of the other inputs and comments are also informative, humorus and entertaining.

2. Many of the pictures posted could also be useful for the magazine - many are awe-inspiring and really show the better views the gyro can have over other types of aircraft (slower and prettier views).

3. I personally would like to see articles focusing on maintenance and maintenance tips - similar to articles done in bicycling magazines. Although somewhat dry, this information goes to the heart of safe flying - keeping your machine prepared and reliable at all times - good maintenance can save your life.

4. I'd like to see articles comparing the performance of various gyros - similar to Road and Track magazines - develop common performance criteria for gyros similar to automobiles 0-60 speeds, braking distances (maybe climb rates, hp to weight, reliability of the machines, purchase/build costs, etc.). The various manufacturers could be asked to participate and the articles could provide valuable information for people who are looking to purchase a gyro (in addition to the wise council of this forum, of course :-))

Dave

[Dean_Dolph]

This has been discussed at the Convention before and was again this year. The problem is getting distributors to distribute and retailers to retail! PRA has tried and haven't been successful in making the arrangements.

People have made membership gifts to libraries of various sorts, school and etc., and guess what, they get borrowed and are never returned! This is not surprising, the gyro is an intriguing machine.

One of us should think of a scheme to get the mag to the general public and make a profit for the PRA.

[PatONeal]

Sell them for $5.00 an issue on the website.

Pat O'Neal

[PatONeal]

Offer them on E-Bay
Take a small ad in the EAA, AOPA Flight Training, USUA, etc. mags.

Pat O'Neal

[Dean_Dolph]

Ralph, there is no doubt that color pictures are not a requirement but they do provide more detail than B&W for those of us that look for new innovations or how others have built their machine. And in my opinion color photos do add to the quality of the mag. I admit I would miss the color photos but we need to be pragmatic and do what is necessary in the short term to keep the organization solvent.

It is hard to say how right you are about people never joining the PRA if they could buy the mag off a newsstand. It might be a trade off since there are those, like you mentioned in your Mentone forum, who would just like to belong to the organization because of the camaraderie and etc. and still join.

[Dean_Dolph]

Pat, obviously the purpose of the ads would be to entice new members. But to date ads have only been minimally effective and they are costly, even small ones. I think the only ad still running is the one in Kitplanes. The web site, when it was in its prime, was what pulled in new members. Offering issues on the web site, when it is back to speed, at a premium price has some merit.

The places you mentioned to place ads are areas of aviation where the people think us rotorcraft people are one card short of a full deck so I have my doubts if an ad placed there would be effective.

[Heron]

I used to yell at passers by when towing the Dominator to whatever place we went:
"Go to www.rotorcraft.com!!" sometime me and Hector just hook the trailer up and rode to A1A on a sunday afternoon just to expose our hobby.
Ralph's point in downgrading to B&W is a good one, we can all rally around the motto "help us bring the collors back!"
We start by having "magazine buddies" I buy my yearly subscription through a member till I decide to join myself (lets say 3 years span?)
If every member gets one buddy, we double the number of issues printed and lower the costs.
Ill bet my almost senior ass that we can double the membership in less than two years with minimal costs.
Now, you want to talk web page? Let me get the pink stuff first . . .it is a joke!!
Heron
reading back on the pics subject, select pics with some meaning, we have this forum's gallery and should have PRA's gallery to watch pics galore with better resolution and downloadable, we can also have the magazine downloadable for a price.

[PatONeal]

Having been in the printing business for over 30 years I'm familiar with the additional cost of printing in color. Yes, it is more expensive. Yes, it's worth the money. Color, conveys a much more professional and successful image than black and white.

There are ways that it MAY be possible to save money on the actual production cost of the magazine without getting rid of the color. I would certainly be willing to do whatever I could to assist in that area.

That being said, I believe the best way to improve the magazine and the PRA in general is demonstrated right here on this forum...active participation by the membership.

Pat O'Neal

[Caribean_gyro]

There are 47 PRA chapter. the magazine gets out 8 times a year SO we can request a report from 6 chapters on every publication. Also we can start listing how many members per chapter or state and at year end what was the mebership increase percentage. Is a duty of the chapters to meet every month and bring more members.

How many send reports? I remeber 1 or 2 chapters use to have a news letter and I got copies. Every chapter by-laws state "have to meet monthly. Then take pictures write some notes get them in a CD.

Now MR editor since you will be flooded with articles can you use the forum to let the people know when is there contribution expected out. Giving datelines for receiving data for press cutoff will help.

Is sad to get a guy motivated and then dont see his article or as Ken said 2 pictures. I have a flying every 3 month. I even have video's running of several of you guys from the states. Next time I will have some subscription form to get them in the PRA.

CHuck Peterson :cool:

[Brian Jackson]

During my trip to Mentone for this year's fly-in, I met with Gary Goldsberry and Glenn Bundy to volunteer my services in helping get the PRA website up to speed, and keeping it updated. I believe that the PRA site and Rotorcraft Mag. should work collectively to compliment each other. Links from the Mag. to the site could provide more in-depth information to continue where an article leaves off, for example. Color versions of all magazine photos, extended interviews with builders, and more "ask the experts" Q & A that the magazine could not accommodate that month.

I see a plethora of possibilities where the new PRA site would not only stand as a brilliant resource on its own, but become a logical extention of the publication itself... Sort of an "expanded" version of Rotorcraft Magazine. Where the magazine may only publish 1 or 2 photos and a paraphrased version of someone's submission, the Site could carry the full-unedited version. Just a thought.

Regards,
Brian Jackson

[gyroblackwell]

Sounds great rotopix!

Anything that we locals can do to help this along ... please just ask. As I mentioned before, If you need any help on your build please let me know. Chapter 81 has a small collection of parts that we like to provide for the guys that give of there time to better the PRA and the sport!

If you would like to come to our chapter meeting to discuss the website, and your ideas, we would love to have you! We will be meeting Aug. 14th at the mentone airport. people start arriving at 9:30am to do some building on the club gyro projects. The meeting officially begins at 11am

Hope you will come down and visit with the group!

[Brian Jackson]

Hi Tim.
Wow, sounds great. I'd love to attend, and appreciate the invitation. The 14'th is on a Saturday?

One thing that we might want to take into consideration this early on in the PRA's new site development is a division between "Public" content and "Premium" content. If casual visitors (non-members) can freely download/view the bulk of Rotorcraft Magazine's contents, then what's the incentive to join the PRA? It would seem logical that the site has a member-access area where the meat of the in-depth articles and premium content reside, requiring a password perhaps derived from one's PRA member number or something similar.

A lot of online publications have truncated or condensed versions of their hardcopy articles for visitors (newspapers are a good example), but to get the full story, beyond what the magazine covers, requires a membership. I feel that it should be balanced with enough free content to make the site informative and enjoyable for new visitors. But it would be interesting to hear what others feel about the idea, and where the division between public and premium content should be.

My gut tells me that new visitors and non-members would spend a lot of time in a photo gallery, with descriptions of the various machines. Is it a kit? Build as you go? Link to a manufacturer's site? How many are flying, etc. I also feel this would be a great area to re-publish many of the articles that previously ran in older issues of Rotorcraft. That information is pretty much "public domain" by now anyway, so why not go to the source?

I would not, though, think it wise to post Accident Reports, etc., on the site's Public Access area, since a newbee might assume Gyros are unsafe... Kinda sends the wrong message. However, I feel that any safety reports (e.g., a part recall/replacement bulletin) would be of great benefit for non-members that are currently flying in affected machines. But again, it could just be a simple Alert with a link to that manufacturer's safety notice page. That's right in line with PRA's philosophy of "Safety First."

On a personal note, one thing I'd love to see in the Magazine is a section called "Work Spaces". Kind of a "Builder's Corner" of sorts, but focuses on the workshops themselves. Each month or two there could be a 1-page narrated pictorial of a particular builder's workshop, with a focus on creative solutions to common problems. For example, many new builders (including myself) only have a 1-car garage shared with years of clutter. It would be interesting to see some of the creative ways that other builders make the most use of available space, or how they mount their equipment to facilitate working with lengthy tubes, or even just creative ways they've found to store their raw materials.

A "Work Spaces" section could also key in on ergonomics as well. What have other builders done in their shops to increase workflow and productivity? Are there simple garage door mods, or creative ways to tilt the airframe such that our gyros can be moved freely in and out without hitting the mast? As a newbee myself with the common dream of building a great gyro, these tips-&-tricks would be very beneficial. It would dispel the myth that one needs a huge workspace and a CNC setup to build a gyro. In fact I heard of one gentleman that was building his gyro in a 2-bedroom apartment. I can relate... I started building a wooden Mini-Max fixed-wing in just such a space. It's amazing the ingenuity that builders develop when blending their flight dreams with their living parameters. Proof positive that the spirit of flight knows no bounds.

Respectfully,
Brian Jackson

[Gary_in_Orygun]

Don't let Brian get away. Those are some good ideas. I belong to EAA and AOPA, and those organization's web sites and magazines are first rate. I would love to see PRA grow to a point and have enough manpower to put out something like they do.

[Dean_Dolph]

Brian, the usual practice for organizations web sites is to have a member only section. In fact the EAA does this.

If the public side can be kept enticing enough with the proper hooks that cause people to want to know more then it should help generate PRA growth. However I would keep the downloads on the members only side and let that be one of the enticements. Put just enough photos and summary descriptions on the public side to intrigue people. The exception is specific safety issues that should be available as a PRA public service.

I personally think this is a good idea with a lot of upside potential.

[Brian Jackson]

Mr. Dolph,

I agree entirely. The safety articles would be better served on the Public Access side, reinforcing the PRA's commitment to safe flying whether one is a member or not.

By the way, it was very nice meeting you at Mentone. I very much enjoy your input on the forum, but it's even better being able to meet someone in person and shake their hand.

Cheers,
Brian Jackson

[Dean_Dolph]

Hey, Brian, I know I'm old enough to be your dad but don't remind me! Trust me, I don't need it!:D

[Brian Jackson]

Hey, Brian, I know I'm old enough to be your dad but don't remind me! Trust me, I don't need it!:D

Ok, "Dean." :)
Sorry, it's an old habit done out of respect. But hey, never underestimate the power of Dadhood. Here's mine (http://www.tommyjames.com), and he rocks! Unfortunately he doesn't share my passion for flying... probably from too much time on the road waiting around in airports? :p

Also Dean, you mentioned at mentone that you have 2 GyroBee kits lyingin in your garage. Any idea when you might consider putting one together? I know you hold the record for longest PRA membership without actually building/flying a gyro, but it'd be great to parallel our projects and compare notes along the way. I was just curious what's preventing you from getting motivated to put one of those kits together.

Take care my friend.
Brian Jackson

[Dean_Dolph]

Brian, unlike a lot of people I have always needed a lot of elbow room when I had a project. Consequently I have plans underway to build a new house and part of that project is the BIG workshop I've always wanted. Pencil hasn't been put to paper as far as the cost goes so don't really know if is will happen but should make a decision soon.

[rehler]

Brian,

YOU DE MAN!

You could be the best thing to happen to PRA in a long time. I sure hope you and Glenn Bundy do get together. Glenn is a great asset to the PRA but is over worked. The new magazine editor seems like he is full of action and will do a lot to improve the magazine. If you could help them improve the PRA web site, we'll be in high cotton!

[Frank Zarzycki]

I miss the PRA magazine of the 70 & 80's the technical how to do articles, the fly in coverages and the what the member is building or completed. Isn't it suppose to be an organization of sharing knowledge so everyone can benefit.

Frank

[gyroplanes]

Brian, Is your dad really Tommy James?
A guy in our gyroclub bought (or sold) a gyro to Tammy Wynette's brother some years ago.
And, speaking of musicians and gyros, did you know Mickey Dolenz, of the Monkees, had a Bensen gyro?

[KenSandyEggo]

....of "and the Shondelles?" Did you know that John Travolta's first plane was an Ercoupe? I have a photo. It and $1.50 will get you a bus or trolley ride to downtown Sandy Eggo......depending on whether you're closer to a bus stop or a trolley station. (Go to bed, numb-nuts!) O.K., ma....I'm going already. Good night everyone. Where are my bunny slippers ma? (They're going to be up one of your sphincters in a minute!) Sheesh. Old ladies aren't as laid back as they used to be.

[Whirlydog]

I wouls like to reiterate something Ralph Taggart said:

"For most members, the only significant benefit they get and expect from their dues is the magazine. For whatever reasons, the quality of the magazine has been declining (and that is putting it mildly!). When Paul Abbott was publishing, I could not get from the mail box to my front door without opening the magazine. Now it can sit around for weeks until it gets read. Our peak in membership corresponded to the best quality for the magazine. I hope the present staff can turn it around, but it is a tough job.

Bottom line is:

(1) People get scared as hell about the stability issue and, with all the bickering, it looks like we don't understand the aircraft we fly. That's hard on dreams!

(2) The magazine is no longer worth the cost of a year's dues

As a result, our silent majority of non-flying members just stop renewing. You can screw around with BOD issues until the cows come home, but unless you REALLY fix the magazine the PRA is in big trouble."


Last year they cut the number of magazines put out per year and now they are wanting to raise the price of a membership. AS Ralph stated most PRA members joined the PRA to get the magazine. I know that is the reason I first joined. If the PRA raises the price without giving something more in return, I am afraid that they will loose even more members and will ultimately loose more revenue than they will gain by the increase of dues.

I think that increasing the number of editions per year is just as inportant as increasing the content. How many members did they loose this past year after they reduced the number of editions?

We are a nation obsessesed with quantity vs quality, Just look at the number of all you can eat buffets that have increase over the last 20 years. When I was a teenager Albuquerque could boast of around four, Now I can pick almost any major street in town and find at least four.

As Ralph said, "For most members, the only significant benefit they get and expect from their dues is the magazine." If we are going to raise the price of this membership what are we going to promise to give them in return?

Quality might help in keeping the current members around but, but quantity would do more to keep exsisting members, members, and bring in more new ones.

Todd I also wanted to say that I liked your ideas of sections for the magazine.

Shawn

[Dean_Dolph]

Shawn, the PRA thrived and grew for years with only 4 issues a year. So quantity only has minimal impact. What has happened is that we have got use to a certain number so losing any hurts. Would you accept 18 issues a year if they each had only one black & white page? Not likely.

Quality counts.

[Heron]

Was there a discussion at Mentone an what the scoop from insiders?
I expect to live to be 80, so there are 27 years ahead, lets see how many more it will take till we can listen to the news that something was discussed and from that, a plan emerged for us to participate.
There are enough suggestions to start another magazine . . .sheesh!
Heron

[Whirlydog]

No I would not like 18 mags a year of two pages each. But I would like them them on time. The last one I just got last week was for June-July and it had an entry form to go to Mentone and places to stay etc. and I thought what a waste of pages, Mentone is already over.

Also another idea for the magazine, since the price of membership is rising, I think a section of what the PRA is doing for us would be nice. Call it "PRA in action" or something. People need to know that they are not just throwing their money away. I can do that easy enough at the local casino. At least there I have a chance to get something back for my money.

[mceagle]

I believe the best way to improve the magazine would be for all the members to get off their behinds and send in as many articles/photos as they can, and not just rely on the editor to source a few articles. Members get well and truely sick and tired of seeing most of the contributions from a specific area or group.
If the Editor had ten times the articles/photos that they could use, then they could put out a really interesting magazine. Clear photos of some interesting new innovation or idea means more than ten photos of some gathering.

[Dean_Dolph]

You are right Tim, I'd bet the editor would like to be in the position where he could pick what he uses instead of just what he has available. And then if he comes up short he has to find something to fill the pages, which in the end it turns out the members don't like anyway.

[PW_Plack]

We get spoiled by the internet. Here, anytime you have something to say, you type it and out it goes. If you submit something to the magazine, it won't get published unless the editor believes it's relevant and well-presented. The reaction of some people who don't make the editorial cut is to feel personally rejected and not try again.

Before you whine, ask any professional writer what his submission-to-acceptance ratio has been!

It might be worthwhile for an editor to lurk here, watch for potential magazine articles, and invite the posters by private e-mail to submit them. Some follow-up for submissions which don't get posted, with tips on what the criteria are, could help people over the rejection issue.

[Brian Jackson]

That's a great idea, Paul. Do you know if Mr. Gilley reads this forum at all?

[Heron]

R.P.
I think they all read this forum, and if they don't shame on them . . .there is nothing better out there, as a vehicle for info in the GyroDom.
The very day one of them gets in here and post some "official" word, I will pay my dues and become an up to date member!
Lets go "official lurkers" make my day and another number on the ranks . . .
Heron

[gyroblackwell]

I just got off the phone with Rick Gilley, and "YES he does keep an eye on the forum"

Heron, You need to give up on the "membership carrot" that you keep trying to dangle out there in front of us. If you want to be part of the PRA membership then by al means DO-IT! But to keep dangling that out there and using it as leverage is getting old!

Rotopix,

Gilley Is "pumped" about the ideas you have presented. I am going to give glenn a call today and see what I can do to help get this ball rolling. I would like to get together with you when you have time and take a look at how the website will be layed out. Rick will be sending me back-issue info for publishing on the websit. I will also contact Pam, and see what I can get from the local archives.

Tim

[Brian Jackson]

Hi Heron.
Like you and many others, I also think this forum is an incredible learning resource, and I'm so thankful I stumbled across it. Its value to newbees like me, and to the experienced designers, builders and pilots I've come to admire are immeasurable. That's why I'm surprized by not having seen more PRA staff names in the regular postings here.

Is Mr. Gilley, the new Rotorcraft editor, a gyro pilot himself as opposed to a hired gun for the magazine? Sorry if that's a dumb question but I'm still familiarizing myself with this forum's, and PRA's, membership.

Thanks,
Brian Jackson

[Brian Jackson]

Oops,
Sorry Tim. I didn't see your post before I hit the reply button.

Yes, It would be an honor to meet you, and kick around some ideas. Thank you for the opportunity. By the way, I'd love to get some hands-on experience helping out with one of the Gyro projects at Mentone, under direction and supervision. I'm pretty skilled with micrometers, drill presses, etc., but gyro building is a whole new art form for me.

Respectfully,
Brian Jackson

[Dean_Dolph]

Heron, you seem to think that there is an obligation from the PRA leadership to not only visit this forum but to participate. The fact is no one has that obligation including you and me. I feel that they do have an obligation to know what the membership desires are but how they find that out is up to them. It is also up to them to determine how and how much they can give us.

This Forum is a pure grassroots operation and I think the leadership takes advantage of what is posted here. The results might not satisfy you but since you are not a member you really don't have any right to complain. This particular thread is dealing with how to make the magazine better with grassroots input, pure and simple. Your not joing the PRA isn't going to make or break the organization consequently you have no leverage, zilch, nada!

[gyroblackwell]

Brian,


It's a deal! Can you make the chapter meeting on the 14th? bring your stuff, and I'll bring mine! Look forward to working with you!

Tim

[Heron]

There it is, the ugly face again!!
Tim . . the carrot is rotten and no action, I am a zilch, a big nada!!
Dean . . .why than should I join? Will I have special treatment if I pay 35 bucks or the same old runaround?
I had problems getting in, not one e-mail answered in the year I was a member and I have presented many suggestiond to make it better. For free!
When I see change I will change, or it did not make any sense.
Meantime I presented several people to the PRA I do not know how many joined, some people just passing by.
I am working for the PRA, or are you becoming obtuse?
Show me that you are not by explaining why an association with more than 2.000 members is in financial difficulties? Maybe we have a genius amonst us that can explain that.
We have interacted to all of those members that come here and are one of us.
And I hope soon enough all of us will be PRA in fact as well, because in right we already are, because of our love for gyros.
Keep explaining stupidity, it makes lots of sense.
Heron

[gyroblackwell]

Heron,

No ugly face here! All I am saying is enough of the "IF Then statements"
If you do this.... THEN i will do this ...!

I cannot speak for your past problems with the PRA ... I only hope, and will do my best to make sure that all members of the PRA get what they want from the club, the mag. and the board. As a board member, I will do my best to help all!

This thread was started to help do this ...... Tell ya what Heron IF you will join the PRA and help further this sport THEN I will post the Financial report for 2004 that shows where every pennie of your (actually my money, since you are presently not a member) was used, and why the PRA is in a crunch right now. :eek: I will help you to be the PRA member you always wanted to be!:D

Thank you Heron for bringing members to the club!

It's all up to you!

:rolleyes:

[Brian Jackson]

I'll do my best Tim. Unfortunately I have nothing to bring except my talent, enthusiasm and willingness to learn. I’ll contribute my blood and sweat to the Chapter projects if you’re willing to teach me some building practices.

Thank you,
Brian Jackson

[Heron]

Us Tim . . .us!
and ok . . .you win . . .as the first one that asked I will pay my dues and rejoin even though I never left, just did not pay the fee!
And you know what . . .with that last post of mine (ugly) now I have no choice but join! Enough talking lets see some action . . .
Yeah right like I am to going to shut up . . .:D
. . .and Sensei . . .I love you and think you are bright, ok?
Heron (preaching to the desert)

[gyroguy]

Interesting posts... but, you know, there is no Rotorcraft magazine. What you call Rotorcraft magazine is the effort of one guy, Rick Gilley. What you see in the magazine is whatever that guy can cajole, beg, or get from other people. The magazine you hold in your hand is what PRA can afford to print.

I agree the magazine is PRA's most tangible membership benefit. I don't agree that decreasing quality of the magazine is the primary reason for the decline in PRA membership numbers.

Since 9/11, discretionary income has plummeted. For some, luxuries like PRA membership went with it. There are other reasons for the PRA membership drop. These include members getting older, the difficulty of finding flight instruction, etc. Add your favorite reason. You're probably right.

People on this forum made some imaginative suggestions on how to make the magazine better. Some said you'd even try sending an article to the magazine. So, did anybody do it?

Rick Gilley has a limited number of writers he can count on. I've seen little from the magazine's chapter coordinator, technical editor, technical training committee chairman, ultralight editor, or members of the PRA board of directors. Few PRA chapter officers, PRA chapter newsletter editors, or rotorcraft kit, engine, and accessory manufacturers write articles.

Things can get desperate. Rick asked me to write an article on Oshkosh because he knew I went. He'll use some of my Mentone pictures, because they're available. The key point is--editors must put together magazines with what they have--not what they'd like to have. And they can't use everything.

I'm a PRA member, volunteering as PRA Safety Guy. I write a safety column for each issue. Rather than give you gory details about the most recent fatality, I try for preventive medicine with a little humor.

Writing is hard work. It's not like Internet posting. That's like comparing a postcard to a short story. It takes me about 10 hours to write and edit a column. I throw out most of my ideas for columns.

Technical writing is even harder work. Most of the people who can repair an engine cannot write an article telling how they did it. Fewer can take the close-up photos needed to illustrate their story.

You don't have to be a PRA member to read the magazine, critique it, or write for it. Believe it or not, there are people besides PRA members who know a lot about rotorcraft. And--I hope--some of them can write, too.

Okay, it's time for me to step off the soapbox. I'll do so and make a request. Be a do-er instead of a talker. If you send a story or pictures to Rick Gilley of Rotorcraft magazine, post a note to this forum and say you did it.

FYI, On 8/29 I looked at this post, which was a sea of grey matter (in more ways than one). So I've put spaces between paragraphs. That's the only change, except for this note saying I did so.

[quadrirotor]

At the end of 1999, i sent to Kathryn Fields an article arguing the article of R.W. Prouty (october 99 issue) on a comparaison between helicopter and gyrocopter...With calculations and so on...A full day of work...I sent this article two times...It was NEVER published (without any feedback). :mad:

[donshoebridge]

From talking with Rick, he's always looking for articles that he can publish. Therefore, the magazine is what WE as potential contributors make it. If we don't send articles to him, then he's left with junk to print. Most everyone here on this forum could do a better job of contributing to the magazine by doing a small story about themselves and how they got started in gyros, and what it takes to become involved in gyros. And yes, I'm guilty of it too. So many of the issues concerning the magazine quality starts with us, the potential contributors.

I have been asked by Rick three different times now to write an article about my Hornet. I've started it, but I'm not completely sure what I should put in it. How about the rest of you guys... What do you want to see my Hornet article focus on?

[Heron]

How is the improvement movement impacting those that actually will incorporate the changes?
Your number 2 question is a good one: why not having a tour starting at Mentone and Bensen Day going to the major EAA events?
Some time ago I suggested spliting Bensen Days in two weekends so one can be a dual visit for those close by (SNF to BD and vice versa)
Heron

[donshoebridge]

Heron,

I'm going to start a new thread to discuss my idea #2.

Don

[Hognose]

. Did you know that John Travolta's first plane was an Ercoupe? I have a photo.

LOL. Is that the one that I took at Tom Reilly's place at Kissimmee? That photo is a collectors' item now as the original was a victim of Hurricane Charley! Maybe it's worth two bus rides in Sandy Eggo now.

OK, as to the magazine. I have yet to receive one (just joined PRA in June I think) so I can't comment on it. In fact, I've never seen one of the jeezly things. I am a writer by profession, and once I have seen what it has, will contribute what I think it needs (heavens to mergatroyd, that sounds arrogant).

Here's a a few thoughts off the top of my head:

Magazines have columns; how about regular:
- gyros and the law/regulations
- a safety column on recent NTSB/FAA reports (Flying mag has two, "Aftermath" by Peter Garrison which examines a mishap in depth, and another that lists recent probable cause findings. Fortunately, not enough gyros crash to support this in Rotorcraft.
- a column on the entrepreneurs in the industry.
- a historical column. I'm put in mind of the great Peter Bowers pieces that used to run in GA News -- the only reason that thing was ever worth reading. Only with a gyro bent.
- a technical column on less-common or dead-end ideas. "Different Drummer." For instance, the way Brantley does its hinges, or tip-jet helicopters.
- a humour column. Yes, you can do humour in a highly technical or enthusiast magazine.


Brian -- I'm a big fan of your dad's tunes, but Eric Burdon hooked me up with a "Sky Pilot" long-sleeved tee shirt. I bet even if your father doesn't fly, he brags to his friends that you do.

cheers

-=K=-

[Alan Uhr]

I have just finished reading all of the posts in this thread. There is ONE and only ONE way the magizine wll have any or all of the articles and ideas that have been posted here. EVERYONE, take the same amount of time you have spent here posting to the web and write an article. Take 3 photos to support your article and send them in. I used to write 2 or 3 articles a year. They all got published. I have been inactive lately and haven't sent anything in myself. Once I reactivate myself back into Gyros, I will begin writing again. It takes all of US to make the magazine work. There are no professional writers. Rick just publishes what is sent in.
Take 3 photos of your own Gyro, With a good shot of yourself with the gyro. Send it in with your name, e-mail address, what town you live in, how long it took to build how much it costs, any help you recieved from manufactorers and your friends (mention their names), tell how much you fly, where you fly. Maybe have one of your buddies you fly with take a photo of you in the air. Then, Send it in. It will probably get published.
We also need to see all of the faces and Gyros of the people who go to the flyins. Not just the same ones over and over again. I am friends with most of the same old ones I just mentioned. I don't mean to step on their toes but, we must see all of the new and never seen faces in the magazine. If someone sees themselves in the magazine (photo & name) they will be much more enthooosed.
Juat my thoughts,
Alan Uhr FlyingGyros

[Heron]

If someone could get Rick in here we could start interacting with him and he would turn in some kind of coordinator for this effort.
Even if not published the material sure will add to our archives.
Heron

[barnstorm2]

Heron, good idea. I think Rick is pretty overwhelmed with all of the duties he has now so hopefully someone will stand forward and volenteer as coordinator.

Alan, Great post!
Over the past 2 years I have submitted 5 articles to the PRA and 2 more to other flying clubs. The latest of which (new machines) will be in the issue after next. I got the idea for the last article from this forum when people posted what kind of articles they would like to see. As you say it is now time for people to come to the plate and make some submissions.

I don't have the long-term expertise that is needed for some of the requested articles. However, if anyone has the expertise ( but not the time or inclination to write about it ) I would be happy to interview you on the phone or through email and write up an article.

[Dean_Dolph]

Tim, I agree, Rick is pretty much up to his, ah, ears, in alligators! And the first order of business for Heron is to join the PRA! Then he can become the Forum's mag coordinator.

[Heron]

Sensei . . .lets see after Ivan . . .and I keep thinking that Sunstate needs my money much more than the PRA.
I suggest one article: Me and Jucie are going to check those AC4's in Brazil and find out why they do not have many accidents been so HTL (visually) and get the measurements and history on that project. I think it was one of the best machine in its time (25 years ago)
How's that Jucie? (Joo-see-eh)
Heron

[jucie]

Heron, to have a writing published in such a traditional magazine would be a great honor to anyone. Maybe, some day I will have enough knowledge to assume a task like that. I think there are many people at this forum able to write very interesting stuff to fill dozens of issues. I don't know if enough material is missing to put together ticker, more attractive, issues. If that is the case, maybe people don't put apart some time to write, afraid of his writings being rejected (I don't know, I am just speculating). Maybe a clarification about the editor selection criteria would be of some help to motivate colaborators.

Thanks for your kindly sugestion, my friend. Maybe in the future I find myself able to help. Who knows? ;)

[barnstorm2]

Jucie,

I have read your posts. You would do a fine job writing an article. Just write like you would if you were talking or posting to someone. If you want, I would be happy to proof and pre-read any of your articles first if you want to send them to me.

[Heron]

I picked the subject because I like those gyros very much, and we can interview those old timers (don't tell Melo :D ), do some measurements and pics to post here and get this old timers to analyze it (and some new timers like Sir Ron Full MOuth of Carolinas)
That discussion should bring lots of profit for those who own or intend to own one.
Lets get some kind of frame to work with and fill in the blanks.
Heron (in a good mood before Ivan)

[jucie]

These days I was trying to convince brazilian fellows to contribute articles to our local forum. It's hard to convince them, because just a few people judge himself up to the task, the large majority thinks they are not able to write anything useful and pass just reading through all the day. Interestingly enough, now both of you, Heron and Tim, put me at the same situation! Funny, isn't it? :)

Ok, I will try, my friends, just for the fun of it, but I am sure there are too many guys here that could do it better and they also should give it a try.

Tim, I will accept your generous offer. When I find myself with such a candidate article I will send it for you to change whatever you want.

[Heron]

Trying is good! :)
We can be another window for the Forum members, so they can see what is going on in other countries. The guys down under are today a good part on our Gyrocomunity!
And we can tease them to visit Brazil with those pics and fantastic scenery!
Heron