Turnout at Mentone?

[gyromike]

Maybe I missed it, but does anyone have any attendance numbers for the fly-in at Mentone?

Number of machines?
People?

[Dean_Dolph]

Mike, the attendance and number of machines were down noticeably from last year and last year was down from 2002. This was really unfortunate because a pilot would have had just about as beautiful flying weather as can be imagined.

Chuck Roberg commented about the need for a minimum of 1000 new members in another thread and I commented in another thread about the need for more and younger members. I believe that with Tom Milton as the Chapter Coordinator that we will see a concerted effort, cheerleading if nothing else, to get the Chapters to try and grow the membership. It has to start with the Chapters. Tom scheduled a forum for Chapter reps and guess what, no one showed up! Our, the PRA, problems aren't going to be solved until we look past our personal and local chapter needs and help PRA Central!

Secretary Glenn Bundy made the statement that if each of us would just sign up one member that we would be back in the black since it takes somewhere in the neighborhood of 3600 members to break even. Prez Goldsberry said he had been in touch with other aviation organizations and they are having the same problem with a drop in membership, which I know some of us had also heard. No one knows if it is the economy or other reasons. Ralph Taggart made the observation, in the forum he moderated, that the reason the EAA was pushing for the passage of the Sport Pilot rule was because of a aging membership that was losing their medicals and that, if I remember (or heard!) correctly, within three years of losing the medical people dropped their membership. Who knows if that is also impacting the PRA.

The answer to PRA's financial problems, and for the matter many other problems it may have, is a growth in membership. The stronger the organization is financially, the more it can do for the members and the more the members can do for the organization and the more the more the organization can do for.….. The ole cliché that there is 'strength in numbers' is an understatement in this case.

[Brian Jackson]

Great post, Dean.

For me, the problem has been 100% financial. I joined PRA years ago, and lately have been wanting to renew my membership and support, but couldn't afford to. Granted it's only $35 US per year, which doesn't sound like much, until they threaten to cut your electricity.

My engineering job went out of business for lack of work shortly after 9/11, and since then the job market in my area has diminished. We've had a little coming in from our RotoPix business, but things have been incredibly tight for us. That's why I have to build my GyroBee project one nut & bolt at a time. I was very thankful after the Mentone RotoPix shoot that Joe Swanton was kind enough to gift me a year's PRA membership as a thank you for the work we did. (By the way, the virtual tour will be finished by this weekend!)

I believe that many others are in the same boat as me, and that when the economy improves we will see a direct correlation in membership. That and marketing/promotion I feel would help attract new members most of all.

Regards,
Brian Jackson

[Dean_Dolph]

Yeah, Brian, those that have never experienced a financial drought, or have forgot what one was like, have difficulty relating to the choices that have to be made. Your response at least validates the idea that the economy is playing a part in PRA's problems. Lets hope that this situation passes soon and works out for all of us.

[Heron]

I have a few ideas, any takers?
Heron

[Dean_Dolph]

Heron, you have to become a PRA member first! Then feel free to offer your views to the board of directors. Their email addresses are in the magazine. That is not to say that you can't offer them here but being a member will add some credibility.

[barnstorm2]

As some of you recall I and others here are sponsoring a ROTARY FORUM PRA membership drive. A full page ad is in this Rotorcraft issue and the last issue.

When I get time I am going to look into the cost of doing a bulk mailing to all of the PRA membership as well. We have had some great prizes donated we just need to get the word out!

[Udi]

The root cause of membership loss and the lack of attendance at the Mentone convention is, in my opinion, the lack of good communication from the PRA leadership. The PRA is not only losing members, it is losing whole chapters!

Much of the problem has to do with the Mentone Airport BOD controversy. Also, many people didn't want to come to Mentone after some influential people, in more than one state, were not treated right by the BOD.

For most of the membership, attending the convention requires a significant investment of time and money. If people don't feel warm and fuzzy about "the PRA at Mentone", they are not going to make the effort.

I believe that the membership problems and lack of attendance at Mentone are a direct result of the actions (or maybe lack of) of the PRA management. I know that the BOD members and Gary are investing much of their time and money in this organization, but they are failing to communicate wisely with the majority of the membership. Most people don't know and thus can't appreciate the work done by the PRA BOD.

Stop the bleeding before you start a transfusion of new blood!

Udi

[Heron]

Good point Udi!
I am a member and with a heart too! I just could not send my fee, priorities . . .
But since than I paid one more year to Sunstate (member of a chapter is not a Member, does this makes sense?) and joined the Texas Rotorcraft Association, that is no longer a Chapter, and all of you together can not convince me this is right.
I spoke with the President Pearson and told him my views on this . . . if PRA wants that chapter back it has to go after it!!!
Now . . .if someone not a member wants to help and volunteer, will that person be accepted? Or the fee is tantamount for the BOD to listen?
When and just when someone does something to show concern with this situation and presents his views and ideas to this Forum I will scratch some buck and pay my fee, not rejoining, just been up to date.
I do not believe they will listen to anyone out or their group . . .
Heron

[nsheryka]

I am quite young, and just joined the PRA this year (21 years old).

What troubles me is that there are not really any local chapters. The closest one is in NH, which is quite a distance for me to drive to meetings.

I would love it if there were a chapter in the Mass/Conn/RI area

[Dean_Dolph]

Oh no, Udi, now you've set Heron off again! After 45+ years of dealing with basketball refs I thought I was all finished with that but then here comes Heron bringing the ref mentality to the Forum. :eek: I going to post two replies because I don't know how to say things in two words or less.

Seriously, I believe you are right in that there is a serious lack of communication within the 'Family' as MJ would say. And at Mentone this poor communication was a topic of discussion. Everyone was in agreement that communication needs to be better. This is nothing new, it has always been a problem. Will the problem be addressed? Beats me! But it has been highlighted and since we have a couple of Board members who participate here I suspect it will get some air time.

Communication is a two way street. If one party decides to quit presenting their side and goes off and starts pouting then communication ceases. Everyone wants to blame the PRA leadership when all involved have equal responsibility. A Chapter disassociating itself says more about the Chapter and it's leadership than it does about the PRA leadership. Lets face it, a chapter is local with local agendas and loyalties. If a chapter member, especially one that is highly respected, is perceived as being placed in a defensive position or under attack then the natural response would be a protective one. But that is where good leadership comes in. Disassociation isn't the answer. You can't solve problems from the outside. It is hard to swallow pride and ask for your seat at the table but that is what needs to happen.

And then there are perceptions and getting the whole story. What are the facts? What is the truth? We have no choice but to accept what is presented but when peoples emotions and perceptions come into play then things get more than a little cloudy. Did the Board treat someone unfairly? Maybe, who really knows but how was the Board, that are also part of the family, and our friends, treated? And then what is fair? Did the people who supposedly were treated badly bring it on themselves? Did the people that had responsibility to the membership, local or international, live up to it? Did they violate the members trust? Again we will never know because of perceptions and biases. I've seen what was presented here and heard what was said at Mentone and it is my belief that the poor communication already mentioned is the root of the problem(s).

[Dean_Dolph]

I don't know how to assess the drop in membership or the poor Mentone attendance. I think it is more complicated than just the actions and the poor communication within the organization. This forum probably supplies most of the communication within the rotorcraft community and depending on how the PRA poll conducted here is interpreted, there are probably about 500 PRA members registered out of the 2600 or so PRA members. And not all of them are members of a chapter so what is said here may or may not get spread around. I know in our chapter that there are still people that don't use the Internet. This means that the majority of the members probably aren't even aware of the controversies. You are right about the time and money the leadership contributes. Glenn Bundy let it be known the he personally spent $2300 last year on the PRA. But the time these people put in is even more valuable.

The bleeding will stop when we, the members, accept our responsibility to enhance the communication. We have the means to communicate thru this forum and by email with the board. Lets not transfer that responsibility to the PRA Board.

[Ralph]

If we focus on a gathering like Mentone or BDs you lose track of what is really going on:

(1) MOST members of PRA do not FLY gyros and NEVER will. They are, however, fascinated about them and dream that, one day, they might!

(2) MOST PRA members do not belong to a local chapter.

(3) MOST PRA members do not attend fly-ins.

(4) MOST members could care less about the politics of the organization (just count the ballots!). Membership peaked with exactly the same leadership we now have - that doesn't matter.

For most members, the only significant benefit they get and expect from their dues is the magazine. For whatever reasons, the quality of the magazine has been declining (and that is putting it mildly!). When Paul Abbott was publishing, I could not get from the mail box to my front door without opening the magazine. Now it can sit around for weeks until it gets read. Our peak in membership corresponded to the best quality for the magazine. I hope the present staff can turn it around, but it is a tough job.

Bottom line is:

(1) People get scared as hell about the stability issue and, with all the bickering, it looks like we don't understand the aircraft we fly. That's hard on dreams!

(2) The magazine is no longer worth the cost of a year's dues

As a result, our silent majority of non-flying members just stop renewing. You can screw around with BOD issues until the cows come home, but unless you REALLY fix the magazine the PRA is in big trouble.

Ralph

[ToddP]

I've been watching this topic go back and forth for several months now and I believe Ralph may have just nailed it. Very simple but I think he's right. I'm going to start a new thread: How to make a better magazine

[Dean_Dolph]

For most members, the only significant benefit they get and expect from their dues is the magazine. For whatever reasons, the quality of the magazine has been declining (and that is putting it mildly!). When Paul Abbott was publishing, I could not get from the mail box to my front door without opening the magazine. Now it can sit around for weeks until it gets read. Our peak in membership corresponded to the best quality for the magazine. I hope the present staff can turn it around, but it is a tough job.
Hey, Ralph, succinct and to the point! You boiled it down nicely; however the board and communication issues are important and a not to be ignored factor. Oh yeah, you forgot to mention what you brought out during your Mentone forum that another member benefit is that the PRA is our only political muscle.

I agree with everything you have said about the magazine. Paul was a tough act to follow but it would have been nice if his efforts would have been at least duplicated and sustained. I mentioned somewhere on here that I had a lengthy conversation with the mag editor while at Mentone and I think we are going to see an improvement in content (no, I don't get any credit!) although it may be slow. I was having the same problem with the ASC mag which for me was even worse than PRA's until they finally had an editor change.


People get scared as hell about the stability issue and, with all the bickering, it looks like we don't understand the aircraft we fly. That's hard on dreams!
Hmmm… I'm not sure I agree on this one! It has taken us awhile but it is my belief that the efforts of C. Beaty et al over the Internet are paying off. The incidents and fatalities appear to be down and there seem to be fewer negative out right disagreements on what constitutes stability. The fact that there are now ASTM standards to apply should soon make the issue a mute point. Soon, I realize, is relative.

[rehler]

Todd and Ralph,

You are right but I believe in this day and time the internet has gained even more importance than the magazine. I brought up the PRA web site at the Mentone general membership meeting and learned two things: (1) Gary Goldsberry said that most new members come from the PRA web site. (2) For this last year there has been no PRA web site - at lease not one worth viewing. It didn't even give information on the Mentone convention! This contributed to the lower attendance.

The person in charge of the PRA web site (Bundy) stated that he was working 12 hours a day and just did not have time to work on the web site. He asked for help. He and the PRA need someone to maintain the web site. If it was brought back to what it used to be a couple of years ago (before they “up dated” it) and was interactive so you could join the PRA on the web site (PayPal) and had the contents of each month’s magazine on it (charge a subscription fee or be a member to view it), then it would bring in new members. I firmly believe the PRA web site is the key to solving the membership and fly-in attendance problems, and it will bring in younger members (computer literate) which will bring the PRA back to life. We just need someone or a group of members to have the time and interest to manage it.

Todd, I hope you don't get upset with me, but I suggested that they contact you and see if your forum could become part of the PRA and perhaps be combined with the PRA web site. I hope they do contact you and follow up, as your experience and abilities could really be of help.

[KenSandyEggo]

Speaking of communication with the Prez and board members. That bull-crap about not being computer-literate is so much s***! I'm older than all of them, I believe, and if you can read and write you can post. I managed to learn to use computers. For Pete's sake, the letters are printed on the keys. It's pure laziness or avoidance IMO. What better way to communicate than here? It's like they're all avoiding it for some reason and don't want to communicate. Anyone that says they're unable to post here would have to be a real dumb-ass to not be able to figure it out. Mentally challenged kids use computers. Fire away.

[Ralph]

Ken,

I agree that having a PRA web-site that is essentially brain dead is not good for the organization. However, those of us who use the Web tend to overestimate its importance. As of right now, this forum is just short of 700 members - a modest number even by the standards of the current PRA membership.

We have two different issues in play - recruiting and retention.

Back when I was writing for Kitplanes, it was not uncommon to get up to two hundred or more new members when one of those articles came out. At the same time, at least one BoD member accused me of being "disloyal" for writing for Kitplanes. The PRA has a history of being both parochial and defensive. Remember that they even broke the link to the old conference for a period because they were afraid that someone might think they had actually decided something based on all the activity and discussion on the forum.

Sport Pilot is going to bring lots of new people into aviation and we can get a piece of that action if we are willing to reach out in a cooperative way with other, larger organizations. That's part of the recruiting piece.

Retention is all about hanging on to our members and promoting renewals. I still maintain that, for the majority of our members, a lively and entertaining magazine is a huge factor. If you are into the politics of the Board, one might naturally label that as part of the problem. It may be, but what percentage of the membership actually returned ballots? As far as most members are concerned, the Board could be practicing ritual cannibalism (maybe that's what's happening?) and the silent majority could care less.

For as long as I can remember, "family" is a term that has been used to describe the PRA - especially the active subgroup. The family was always a tad dysfunctional but that was part of its charm. Unfortunately, parts of the family now seem ready for civil war and, in terms of recruitment and retention, that is very bad news.

Lots of thing need fixing and we can only hope we have the time.

Ralph

[PW_Plack]

Make this forum part of the PRA? Huh?

How many times has one of us suggested an improvement to this forum, and Todd got it done in a couple of days? How does that compare to the responsiveness of the PRA?

Did I hear that Norm's old forum start as a PRA forum, but was cut loose to avoid legal issues?

Some things work better when they're not run by committees. This forum is one.

[Dean_Dolph]

Ken, I just looked at my clock and it is 12:05 a.m. If I worked for a living I would not be up typing this. If I worked for a living I would not have spent the hours I have to type my thoughts and observations after returning from Mentone. The people that still work for a living do not have the time to spend here like you and I do.

Then there is the fact that some people, not necessarily our leaders, have told me that they type so slowly that they would rather get all their teeth pulled without anesthetic than post here. In other words it is more pain than they are willing to go thru. I'm not trying to make excuses for anyone but I don't believe there is a conscious effort to avoid participating. But there are time constraints.

I was told that Prez Gary will pickup the phone at work at 6:30 a.m. and you can't reach him at home until after 8:30 at night. Someone else already reported Glenn Bundy saying he works 12 hours a day. I know when I've had reason to exchange messages with the Prez that it is Sue that handles the communication. These are busy hard working people and we should feel fortunate that they volunteer their time.

Oh yeah, you may be older that all of 'them' but you ain't older than me!

[Dean_Dolph]

Paul, Norm started his conference independent of the PRA because he was a newbee and couldn't find the info he wanted otherwise.

The PRA web site initially had a link to his conference. But there was so much controversy and flame wars (you missed the legendary Craig Wall!) going on there that Pam Bundy at PRA Mentone was getting a bunch of phone calls complaining because people THOUGHT the conference was sponsored by the PRA. Consequently they removed the link.

Norm provided a secure area on his conference for PRA Board communication. But other than that there was no affiliation.

I agree, I wouldn't want to see this forum as part of the PRA. However, I would like to see the PRA promote it as an educational tool while adding a disclaimer that it is privately run and they are not responsible for what is posted here.

[KenSandyEggo]

Ya got me beat....but not by much. I won't have as much time on my hands soon. I just received my license in the mail and have an interview at Children's Hospital tomorrow.