Reasons!

[Dean_Dolph]

Okay, in another thread, I made reference to REASONS and said I had a story to tell about them. I had passed this story on in an email recently to several people including the PRA BOD. I've extracted the REASON part of the email and I'm pasting it here. After reading this, don't be too surprised if you start looking for REASONS when you don't understand something rather than saying I wonder what that is all about or why did that happen. There is always a REASON. Now on to Dean's story!

I worked for Shell Chemical for 40 years; the last 25+ years in a R&D facility here in Houston. Somewhere about 15 - 20 years ago the management of our particular part of the business thought it was a good idea for everyone to use the Franklin Daytimer. I suspect missed meetings, meeting and discussion details being lost or misunderstood and no formal means of scheduling individual work was the REASON for this. In other words everyone did their own thing. This came about during the time that corporate America was buying into doing the job the right way, every time, and meeting or exceeding customers mutually agreed to requirements.

So, we were all issued Franklin Daytimers by a Franklin sales rep. The rep distributed them at a day long class on how to use them.

The rep told a personal story about REASONS to reinforce the idea that time planning was important as individuals and to the company. He also mentioned that time was the only thing that we really own and the only thing that we can control. And giving our time to someone, or some task, is something that we needed to think about and decide if it was important to do so. He acknowledged that there was a risk involved and possible consequences if we didn't grant the boss some of our time! But it was our decision to make.

The story about REASONS he told goes like this and I'm going to attempt to tell it in his words as he told it. Remember this is a personal story!

"I was working as a sales rep for a fairly large mid west company and was sent to a Franklin seminar to learn how to use their daytimer.

The facilitator was almost through with his daily presentation when he told us that in order to get the most value out of the daytimer that we needed to remember the REASON why they were at the seminar. And to demonstrate how important REASONS are and how much they impact us, he called on me to join him on stage.

He said, 'I'm going to describe a scenario and I want you to give me your response. We have gone to the top of a 100 story building where there is a taunt line strung between it and the building across the street. I want you to walk across that line to the top of the next building. Will you do it?'

" I answered, no way!"

'Well, what if I offered you $10,000 dollars to do it, would you do it then?

"Not a chance!"

'What about $100,000?'

"There is no amount of money that would get me to walk across that line!"

'Not even a million dollars?'

"I just said there is no amount of money to get me to walk across that line!"

'Okay, then let me offer you something else. I know that you have a 7 year old daughter. What if I told you that if you didn't walk across that line that she would die?'

"That stunned me because I knew that he had our personal information but what he didn't know was that we had almost lost our daughter the previous year to an illness. It staggered me and I almost broke down. He could see that and said 'You see, if you have a reason to do something, you will'

End of story. The story teller went to work for Franklin shortly after that. Is the story true? I don't know but it certainly provides food for thought.

I've remembered the story and applied it from then on with the point being if you give people a reason to do something they will. There may be a common acceptance and knowledge of this among my friends and neighbors but it was a revelation that was so simple that I had never thought about it.

What the PRA leaders must do is find and promote a REASON for people to join and support the PRA. We need to eliminate, where possible, the REASONs people don't belong. Think about it; none of us do something or quit doing something if we don't have a REASON. I don't believe we can solve PRA issues without understanding what the REASONS for them are.

Thanks for reading!

[Tina]

So what your saying is that you have to threaten people to give them a REASON? No Dean it should be a VISION.

Dean do you have a vision statement for the PRA? This is what people will relate to is a vision and working towards that. Threats and Reasons is not the key, VISION is and where you want the PRA to accomplish, then people will help you with seeing that vision takes place.

I helped re-start Chapter One and we all did not have the same REASONs for starting this club, so I ended up quiting because of that among other reasons. I said good bye because their REASONs was not my REASONs. Our vision could have been the same but we did not start out with a vision statement that would have helped.

You first need to establish a vision we all like to be apart of and that will be the REASON for any one to join no matter what our different REASONs are.

[Tina]

Vision and Mission Statements that Work!
Successful organizations know that it takes more than a good plan to succeed in business. It takes an empowered organization, focused on realistic goals, with impassioned leadership. It takes vision. It takes consensus. It takes a sense of purpose!

"Good business leaders create a vision, articulate the vision, passionately own the vision, and relentlessly drive it to completion."

Dean I looked on the PRA site and could not find a Vision or Mission statement? You write what the PRA is but no Mission or Vision?

May I suggest that we all take part in coming up with a Mission or Vision statement that every one can agree on?

[All_In]

Vision and Mission Statements that Work!
Successful organizations know that it takes more than a good plan to succeed in business. It takes an empowered organization, focused on realistic goals, with impassioned leadership. It takes vision. It takes consensus. It takes a sense of purpose!

"Good business leaders create a vision, articulate the vision, passionately own the vision, and relentlessly drive it to completion."

Dean I looked on the PRA site and could not find a Vision or Mission statement? You write what the PRA is but no Mission or Vision?

May I suggest that we all take part in coming up with a Mission or Vision statement that every one can agree on?
Right on, first rough draft is almost finished taken from desires in another thread, as it's always the first thing you write!
Can't write a marketing plan unless you know where you are going!
Hope everybody will help with the rewrite!
John

PS
Dean it's true if you give people a vision with a doable goal, that will give them the reason, add the tools needed and direction and as you imply it is very powerful.

[Heron]

My reasons to join the gyro movement:
The joy I feel when they fly I want to share!
The importance of these machines for transportation in certain places.
The moment we are living is right for gyros against gridlock.
To acomplish this thing I need an ever growing group with more of everything: pilots, machines and instructors.
My vision of 25 years ago took shape, I have flown it and seen it fly, many told me that was impossible 6 years ago, not true we have proven . . .
I can build a safe, fast and reliable aero-terrestrial vehicle, to get to one of those you need to get to know gyros . . .the other leg of the journey you already mastered!
PRA is sitting rigth on top of this events, our president have been the test pilot for some of these machines.
Show them the future . . .they will come!
Heron

[JEFF TIPTON]

I would have to disagree that the PRA does not have a vision. In the bylaws it has a mission statement that has merit. The purchase of Mentone gave the PRA a place for museum, a small one at this time but it has one.

The first two purposes are the hard ones to accomplish.

PURPOSE

1. To encourage, aid and engage in scientific research for the improvement and better understanding of the art of flying by an individual and the science of vertical lift aeronautics.
2. To foster, promote, and popularize education in rotorcraft among it's members and the general public.
3. To establish and maintain a rotorcraft museum and air education center to contain exhibits of historical and scientific interest.

http://pra.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=129&Itemid=68

[All_In]

I would have to disagree that the PRA does not have a vision. In the bylaws it has a mission statement that has merit. The purchase of Mentone gave the PRA a place for museum, a small one at this time but it has one.

The first two purposes are the hard ones to accomplish.

PURPOSE

1. To encourage, aid and engage in scientific research for the improvement and better understanding of the art of flying by an individual and the science of vertical lift aeronautics.
2. To foster, promote, and popularize education in rotorcraft among it's members and the general public.
3. To establish and maintain a rotorcraft museum and air education center to contain exhibits of historical and scientific interest.

http://pra.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=129&Itemid=68
Thanks this helps a great deal!
John

PS

This is really so easy with all of your help!!

[Dean_Dolph]

I would have to disagree that the PRA does not have a vision. In the bylaws it has a mission statement that has merit. The purchase of Mentone gave the PRA a place for museum, a small one at this time but it has one.

The first two purposes are the hard ones to accomplish.

PURPOSE

1. To encourage, aid and engage in scientific research for the improvement and better understanding of the art of flying by an individual and the science of vertical lift aeronautics.
2. To foster, promote, and popularize education in rotorcraft among it's members and the general public.
3. To establish and maintain a rotorcraft museum and air education center to contain exhibits of historical and scientific interest.

http://pra.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=129&Itemid=68Ya, got it Jeff! Now that wasn't hard was it?!!

[M._Springer]

The By-Laws mission statement of PRA Chapter 1 declares that,
Object , ( REASON )

1. The object of this club shall be to promote the general interests and welfare of all persons engaged in the construction and flying of Rotorcraft in the greater Southern California area, and with particular attention being given to beginners and to aid in so far as possible the national program of Popular Rotorcraft Association and other PRA activities, looking toward the continual advancement of rotorcraft aviation in all it's phases in the United States.

2. Purpose : In furtherance of this purpose and object but not in limitation thereof, the Club shall endevor:
(a) To provide for the exchange of worthwhile ideas in regards to the construction , flying, amd safety of Rotorcraft.

(b) To provide Events and Meets with all special or local interest groups with PRA Chapter 1 conforming to the policies of the PRA and to the FAA regulations.

(c) To maintain standards of operation and safety procedure which will insure the continuance of Rotorcraft flying and educate enthusiasts to carry on the hobby-sport in a safe manner with due regard to the rights of others.
.................................................. .

That always has been and will continue to be Chapter 1's REASON for existing. Chapter members fully support Ch. 1 by-laws, so yeah, Tina left Chapter 1 because her REASONS didn't coincide with those of chapter 1.
Chapter 1 is in full agreement with and support of the clearly stated mission or REASON of PRA.
Marion Springer
Chapter 1 President

[tadgyro]

The By-Laws mission statement of PRA Chapter 1 declares that,
Object , ( REASON )

1. The object of this club shall be to promote the general interests and welfare of all persons engaged in the construction and flying of Rotorcraft in the greater Southern California area, and with particular attention being given to beginners and to aid in so far as possible the national program of Popular Rotorcraft Association and other PRA activities, looking toward the continual advancement of rotorcraft aviation in all it's phases in the United States.

2. Purpose : In furtherance of this purpose and object but not in limitation thereof, the Club shall endevor:
(a) To provide for the exchange of worthwhile ideas in regards to the construction , flying, amd safety of Rotorcraft.

(b) To provide Events and Meets with all special or local interest groups with PRA Chapter 1 conforming to the policies of the PRA and to the FAA regulations.

(c) To maintain standards of operation and safety procedure which will insure the continuance of Rotorcraft flying and educate enthusiasts to carry on the hobby-sport in a safe manner with due regard to the rights of others.
.................................................. .

That always has been and will continue to be Chapter 1's REASON for existing. Chapter members fully support Ch. 1 by-laws, so yeah, Tina left Chapter 1 because her REASONS didn't coincide with those of chapter 1.
Chapter 1 is in full agreement with and support of the clearly stated mission or REASON of PRA.
Marion Springer
Chapter 1 President



"Aman " to that
Teddy

[Udi]

Vision and mission statements are not a reason for people to join or quit an association like the PRA. Vision and mission statements should help the leaders and active members to focus on a common goal and drive the organization towards that goal, but it does nothing to promote membership.

The only thing that promotes general membership in this kind of organization is perceived value. i.e. every member asks themselves (consciously, or not) - what value do I get for 1. becoming a member, 2. paying my dues, and 3. giving from my personal time and energy.

Everything the PRA does (and sometime doesn't do) adds or detracts value in the eyes of the members. This perceived value is very personal - everyone have different set of expectations. Some may be content with just a magazine - some may want a monthly magazine in full color, some may be interested in how the PRA is representing them in Washington, and others may be most interested in how the PRA is driving safety improvements for this sport.

We know the PRA is not excelling in any of the above - and so when a member think that the value they get from the PRA is no longer worth their time/money/energy - they quit. If a newbie don't see value in joining the PRA - they will not join. Very simple.

So, those who feel personal responsibility for promoting the PRA should ask themselves - what can we do to add VALUE for the members? How can we get the most bang for the buck for adding value for the entire membership. Is spending money on the Mentone facility is adding value to the majority of the members? Is the national convention adding value to the majority of the membership? Is printing a colorful magazine adding value to the majority of the membership? Is taking a stance on gyroplane safety adding value to the majority of the membership?

Resources are limited. Concentrate on those actions and activities that add most value to your members. You don't know what the members want?

ASK THEM!

Udi
p.s. this forum is of so much value to so many people that they ask themselves - this is free, why should I pay money to the PRA? Here we can socialize, get technical help, learn just about anything we need, find flying buddies - what's the PRA good for? PRA leaders - take a good look in the mirror.

[Tina]

The By-Laws mission statement of PRA Chapter 1 declares that,
Object , ( REASON )

1. The object of this club shall be to promote the general interests and welfare of all persons engaged in the construction and flying of Rotorcraft in the greater Southern California area, and with particular attention being given to beginners and to aid in so far as possible the national program of Popular Rotorcraft Association and other PRA activities, looking toward the continual advancement of rotorcraft aviation in all it's phases in the United States.

2. Purpose : In furtherance of this purpose and object but not in limitation thereof, the Club shall endevor:
(a) To provide for the exchange of worthwhile ideas in regards to the construction , flying, amd safety of Rotorcraft.

(b) To provide Events and Meets with all special or local interest groups with PRA Chapter 1 conforming to the policies of the PRA and to the FAA regulations.

(c) To maintain standards of operation and safety procedure which will insure the continuance of Rotorcraft flying and educate enthusiasts to carry on the hobby-sport in a safe manner with due regard to the rights of others.
.................................................. .

That always has been and will continue to be Chapter 1's REASON for existing. Chapter members fully support Ch. 1 by-laws, so yeah, Tina left Chapter 1 because her REASONS didn't coincide with those of chapter 1.
Chapter 1 is in full agreement with and support of the clearly stated mission or REASON of PRA.
Marion Springer
Chapter 1 President
Marion, that is good your finally going by the By-Laws of the old Chapter One I am glad to hear that. When I was part of this club you did not follow the By-Laws and I had to point that out to you many times. You even wanted to re-write them to your liking.

Marion and Teddy we should have set down and been in agreement what our mission or vision was for this club from the beginning then we all would have been on the same page.

We all started this club for different reasons. You two had different reasons then I did in the end. Lets just say you both wanted to leave some people out of future fly-ins, to me very important people that started this club and I could not stand to hear this from you both and quite. We did not see eye to eye on things and communication was difficult.

Moving forward I am glad to hear you both do not feel that way any longer and maybe on the right track so please do not continue to push me into telling people why I left the club. It was a big part of my life for 1 year and I put a lot of work and soul into it, so it meant a lot to me at one time.

I will from time to time bring up things about the club like I did here but do not speck for me our put words into my mouth so I have to defend myself once again. I moved on now its time for you both to do the same thing. :wave:

[All_In]

@Udi
Hey buddy!!

Very well said, excerpting parts for the business plan.
Thanks,
John

[Heron]

There´s been some reluctancy in joining this Forum as an ASSn. by PRA, since the RAF Thing started the relationship with our Forums have been inexistent, I think last year a link was placed at PRA site pointing to this Forum.
Now PRA can have 3 voices:Web site, News letter and RotaryForum!
As we are very loose in presenting ideas and sometimes plain loose canon I understand the position with the PRA guys (top brass)
But it is time to get out there with all we are and can and corral the outsiders to our neck of the aviation woods.
I have seen non believers change when they first saw the Golden Butterfly and after one ride there was no coming back . . .gyrowise is easier than selling a PRA membership.
"Get on our site and register, bring a friend and receive a voucher for a demo ride at one of there fly-ins" (follow list of places and ride givers)
What is wrong with the picture of 4 friends going to a fly-in and getting 4 rides for the price of one? Of course after the first 15 minutes (if they like enough) they will be back on the line for a first 30 minute lesson.
Heron

[All_In]

...
I have seen non believers change when they first saw the Golden Butterfly and after one ride there was no coming back . . .gyrowise is easier than selling a PRA membership.
"Get on our site and register, bring a friend and receive a voucher for a demo ride at one of there fly-ins" (follow list of places and ride givers)
What is wrong with the picture of 4 friends going to a fly-in and getting 4 rides for the price of one? Of course after the first 15 minutes (if they like enough) they will be back on the line for a first 30 minute lesson.
HeronThis works in real life I have sold Whale watching plane rides that sold a lot of flight lessons, to people who were afraid to pilot an aircraft.
John

[Dean_Dolph]

Udi, any way you paint it you still end up citing reasons to either join or not join.

And why ask?

This Forum generates enough info to form an opinion on what value should be added and where the focus should be. And I’m certainly not suggesting that communication through out the organization doesn’t need improvement. And when I say the organization I mean from the individual member on up.

You, at least, mentioned the intangibles where most just zero in on the magazine. It seems that few want to accept that the intangibles have as much or more value. I guess people would rather have a bare Hershey bar in their pocket on a hot Texas day than one with a wrapper.

When you say that we are not excelling in ‘…..any of the above’ that depends again on a person’s perception.

I happen to perceive that the PRA is, and has, done an excellent job representing us in Washington. I also perceive that safety has also been pushed in various ways and most shortcomings can be laid at the feet of individuals. PRA members Chuck Beaty, Doug Riley and you, among others, should be perceived as contributing to safety. The Safety Guy, as a PRA rep, has certainly tried to help promote safety.

While many don’t feel that they can contribute to promoting the PRA, all should still feel the responsibility to do so. Some can, some can’t but we all have that responsibility.

And for others who have commented, it isn't a scare tactic or threat to point out the possibilities, if the PRA isn't available to mitigate situations that could develop. Just think of the PRA as that ounce of prevention that precludes the use of a pound of cure.

[Tina]

I totally support the PRA because that is all we have as gyro pilots, like it or not.

When anyone asks me about gyros and want to know more, I tell them to look up PRA.org. Not the forum! I would hate to scare them off because of our rants that we get our selfs into on this forum.

I would like them to get the basic information first then when they like to see what its like being a gyro pilot in this world, come to the forum. We are as diverse as any community out there and have our own opinions. But it is a learning place also along with human tragedy and humility.

[Udi]

Since all PRA members get the magazine - the easiest way to get feedback from members is to include in the magazine a one-page survey asking people to rank their expectations from the PRA. Let the members tell you what is really important to them and what is not. The questions will have to be drafted carefully if you want this to have any real value. I don't believe that what you read on this forum really represent the wish of the entire PRA membership.

Regarding safety, I think the PRA has done a big mistake by not taking a more clear stance -- as an organization -- on safety. The work Chuck, Doug, me and others are doing on this forum is not for PRA. Although I am a member of the PRA, I don't represent the PRA. As far as I can see, except for endorsing the stab a few years ago, the PRA is silent on safety. Even the articles in the magazine are not the voice of the PRA, they are just member articles. The PRA would publish ANY article.

There is one (the only one) CFI - Duane Hunn, who is permanently based at the PRA headquarters in Mentone. Duane is instructing in one of the most unstable gyros in existence and a known widow maker. What does that say about the PRA commitment to safety? Talk is cheap - I want to see where the PRA stands thru actions.

Look, Dean, the membership has dropped by a lot for a REASON (actually multiple reasons). Do you know the reasons, or do you not? It wont hurt sending letters to some or all past members and asking them why they left and what the PRA can do to get them back.

Udi

[Gyro_Kai]

A politician here once said:

"If you have visions, you should go, see a doctor"

I like "mission" better.

Vision sounds like "world peace".

Mission is more like "Achieving better international relationships by exchanging pupils and students to get an in-depth mutual understanding of the other people's culture and view of life for current and future generations".

The first is the standard Miss World statement, hollow and with no effect.
The second is the mission statement of organizations which actually DO something, like AFS or YFU, to the same end.

Kai.

[All_In]

...
Look, Dean, the membership has dropped by a lot for a REASON (actually multiple reasons). Do you know the reasons, or do you not? It wont hurt sending letters to some or all past members and asking them why they left and what the PRA can do to get them back.

UdiCalling current and past customers is one of the best marketing tools there is. Adding this as a regular duty, to the plan in our other thread!
John

[Dean_Dolph]

......I don't believe that what you read on this forum really represent the wish of the entire PRA membership.Maybe not but some of the people here do get involved, members or not. I can tell you after wearing the chapter coordinators hat for some time that there isn't much communication from members in this organization. And that is with direct contact where a magazine doesn't have to be picked up. I can't speak for the decision makers but I'll take my chances here.

......The work Chuck, Doug, me and others are doing on this forum is not for PRA.Sure it is! ...... Although I am a member of the PRA, I don't represent the PRA.You guys certainly rep the PRA as much as anyone else. You don't have to be part of the management team to represent the PRA. Every PRA member that participates here and at events represents the PRA. Some of it is poor representation but.....take the good with the bad, I guess.

As far as I can see, except for endorsing the stab a few years ago, the PRA is silent on safety.How 'bout the work that the guys on the ASTM team are doing? Don't you think that is safety related?

......Even the articles in the magazine are not the voice of the PRA, they are just member articles.Well, of course they are just members articles. And if members aren't the voice of the PRA, who is? ......The PRA would publish ANY article.Uh, don't think so! Apparently you haven't heard about the people that have complained that their article didn't get published. This is one of those times that I wish I had I saved Forum links or emails that had examples of article rejection.

There is one (the only one) CFI - Duane Hunn, who is permanently based at the PRA headquarters in Mentone. Duane is instructing in one of the most unstable gyros in existence and a known widow maker. What does that say about the PRA commitment to safety? Talk is cheap - I want to see where the PRA stands thru actions.Hey I agree! I raised this issue as soon as I heard about it. I'm not sure what the arrangement is with Duane at the moment. It is my understanding that he isn't acting as the airport activities manager any more. And what does it say about PRA members that don't vote in the BOD elections or those that do and then vote in someone that flies such a machine. Maybe as a group, we aren't as safety conscious as we would like to think.

Look, Dean, the membership has dropped by a lot for a REASON (actually multiple reasons). Do you know the reasons, or do you not?No I don't! But I think the dialog on this Forum provides a clue. I say I don't when I've been bombarding the BOD for years with items I personally felt were a problem or could solve a problem. That doesn't mean my items had any merit. ......It wont hurt sending letters to some or all past members and asking them why they left and what the PRA can do to get them back.Hey, an exit poll of sorts would be good!

And it has been suggested several times. But with postage heading in the same direction as gas it would get to be expensive and then the thing that really makes it expensive is the time involved. But if you want to volunteer to either spend your time to manage this project or do the actual work youself then propose it to the BOD. Like as has been said, talk is cheap. Getter done!

It would be interesting to see what kind of response you would get. We get little thru the chapters but then there are those who have dropped out that are angry and anger is a wonderful energy source. So, you might get answers from them even though they might skew the conclusion some what. But, the organization can only make decisions on what it thinks is valid data. It can't wait until it is proven.

[route66]

A year or so ago, Stan had an idea to contact members who had not renewed their PRA membership. He sent me the lists to contact people from the West and re-introduce them to the PRA and ask why they chose not to renew and maybe try to get them to re-join.
I called over 200 on the list and found that over ½ of them had either moved or changed their phone number. I did talk to over 90 former members and was surprised that 52 said they would renew and it had just slipped their mind. (Reminds me of a couple years back when I called PRA asking where my magazine was and there was a problem with a number on my credit card. Rather than contacting me, my membership had been cancelled months prior.) From my calls to former members my suggestion would be to actively seek renewals. Maybe a big sticker on their last magazine with a renewal card as a reminder and a couple follow-up invoices would help this decline. 30 I contacted had taken up other hobbies and had given up on rotorcraft and did not want to re-join. 5 had passed away and only 3 said they had a problem with the PRA or its members and would not join. I only called the previous members on the list from Arizona, New Mexico and part of Nevada and found 52 who said they would re-join. Whether they did or not I can’t say nor was I equipped to sign them up on the spot. All I could do is point them back.

Stan’s idea of contacting former members could be a valuable tool to survey opinions to assist the PRA with its goals as well as keep the herd together and put membership on an upswing from its decline. I am sure a better system can be designed rather than a couple old guys calling and shooting from the hip to get members back, but my calls seemed to be somewhat effective and encouraging. Just some random thoughts!!!

[Ron E]

I just took a call from a newbie looking for a new prop who recently purchased a RAF 2000 from someone in Texas. It came with a horizontal stabilizer installed. Well, he rolled it up in a ball last week during a solo flight. Apparently he was not injured, but he now needs new rotor blades, a prop and some other things. This incident occurred during a landing attempt.

He told me that his gyro CFI, using the Brewton, AL airport, made him REMOVE his horizontal stabilizer before he would provide him any flight training. This particular gyro CFI has lost at least 6 students due to their death to PPO's, according to others on this forum.

The HS was not installed at the time of the accident.

It is my understanding that this gyro CFI advertises his services in the PRA magazine and on the PRA website.

I found this on the PRA web site, at this link:
http://www.pra.org/index.php?view=article&catid=49%3AInstructors&id=48%3Aunited-states-cfi-list&option=com_content&Itemid=2


Dofin Fritts, CFI-gyro, 5209 exemption
6081 Four Star Rd
Molino, FL 32577
Phone: 850-587-2504
Cell: 251-867-9446
Email: gyrocfi@aol.com This e-mail address is being protected from spambots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
Alabama and Northern Florida.
Trains for all makes and models. Trains in an RAF 2000


This incident illustrates the REASON I have not yet joined the PRA !!!

The PRA just looks the other way.

.

[All_In]

@Bradon
Real numbers like that are so valuable to me, anymore member's experiences like this please post them, they help.
The automatic email noticing and billing program will help with the ones that don't move etc.

You ask a question on any subject and you get great answers back,
John

[All_In]

@Ron
There is rarely a time in my life where I don't see 30 or 100 solutions for any one problem.
But yours, there was no answers coming in, only questions.
Forget the PRA for now, if this guy is killing folks I'll go to the FAA if you have any real proof!
He needs to be stopped, today!!!!
PRA would need the same proof but we need to go to the top, if your shy I'll do it just PM me and have the student call me.
John

[StanFoster]

Brandon: I remember that well....I volunteered at Mentone 2006 to call the past members list and see what the main reason was for not rejoining...and what would it take to have them rejoin. I received the list and I like to delegate out such tasks. I took Illinois/Indiana....and started a thread asking for volunteers to take on the other states. You Brandon had probably the most effort of us all. I called 50-60...and had 0....zero...nada.....luck. Either disconnected numbers...or answering machines which I left a pleasant message on. Not one response back... I am not a telemarketing type...and hang up on EVERY call that comes my way. I just am that way. So,,,after these useless efforts on the phone...I said to heck with it....I just got on the forum and gave away two memberships. My stairshop and the PRA benefited far more that way than me waisting anymore time on the phone. I am a positive type of person...but realistically....this is not the answer I thought it would be. The PRA can benefit far more from me if I just spent my time in the stairshop and donated my shop rate for the same number of hours wasted on a phone.

I was the same way during fund raisers for my kids sports. I told them instead of me out "washing cars" for peanuts...I would just rather write a check for $100 and go to the shop for an hour and half and donate that.

Stan

[Dean_Dolph]

Just in case someone wonders what happens when PRA membership is getting close to renewal, I'm going to give you the short version.

There was a time when it was a big problem. But since we have Jennifer back in place where we needed her that is a problem of the past.

What she does isn't as automatic as what I envision that John is proposing but it gets the job done. When the membership gets close to the expiration date (forgot the exact lead time) she sends out notices. And then sends out an expiration notice. But guess, what, people ignore them! Or as magazine Rick Gilley will tell you, people don't send in address changes.

This costs the PRA in lost membership and wasted publishing and postage costs. I understand that the mags that get sent out but can't be delivered gets returned by the post office with the covers torn off. This means that if a member finally does complain about a missing issue the cost of another mag being sent out is added to the books.It also adds to the cost of publishing in that extra issues that normally wouldn't be needed have to be printed to cover that possibility.

I have no idea how many are printed to cover this need but was told recently that about 2300 issues are printed. The number goes up and down monthly. In writing this the question came to mind, 'what happens to the returned issues?' I'll try and find out. Someone remind me if I don't report back in the next day or so. 1st I need to verify that what I've posted about the covers being torn off still happens.

I have the ignoring of notices happen all the time in my local chapter. And since the magazine doesn't come as often as it once did, it takes sometime before they get the feeling that something is missing once it stops altogether. By that time they may have got use to not being part of the group; especially if they are not part of a chapter. Members that don't belong to a chapter never get a local reminder.

A lot of the flack the organization takes is actually individuals not taking responsibility and it reflects on the group as a whole. Guilt by association in other words.

[route66]

Stan, I understand your frustrations with telemarketing. It is not my cup of tea either, yet the findings I learned was that most people I did talk with had actually just overlooked renewing for one reason or another. I have to be honest it took me missing two issues before I called and found there was a problem with my membership. I really do believe that a big sticky notice on expiring member’s last magazine and follow-up notices would help retain a few memberships at low cost.

[All_In]

....

I was the same way during fund raisers for my kids sports. I told them instead of me out "washing cars" for peanuts...I would just rather write a check for $100 and go to the shop for an hour and half and donate that.

StanThat's not your job, Fearless leader! You need to try it, so you really know what it's like for the ones your going to ask to do it.

But you are the cheerleader for our next mission and one of the selectors and directors and enablers for that mission.
Need you to be selecting the next new plan and placing it on the PRA site on a 'Requested Labor List' for a volunteer to head running that program.
That person will then ask for more telemarketing types volunteers to call, and or do it yourself. (But so far people are stepping up)
Each specializing in what they do best, is how we can maximize efforts and skills.

I can build, and repair anything but I'm and very slow at it!
I'm probably not going to be the builder in our group, bummer.

I like the fact that you just did it, we are wired alike!!!!
John

[All_In]

Stan, I understand your frustrations with telemarketing. It is not my cup of tea either, yet the findings I learned was that most people I did talk with had actually just overlooked renewing for one reason or another. I have to be honest it took me missing two issues before I called and found there was a problem with my membership. I really do believe that a big sticky notice on expiring member’s last magazine and follow-up notices would help retain a few memberships at low cost.I have software that will fix this once and for all!
Cheers,
John

[Dean_Dolph]

I have software that will fix this once and for all!
Cheers,
JohnHmm, probably not! Not unless it keeps giving a quick kick in the shins until the notice receiver responds!

[All_In]

Hmm, probably not! Not unless it keeps giving a quick kick in the shins until the notice receiver responds!Well did I mention I'm building a robot!!!:)

Your right, it will only keep telling then, 4 issues to go, 3,2,1,0, and then send a were sorry how could we have kept you as a member survey.
without any labor.
Oh well back to the robot!
John