Carter Copter rotorhead

[MAX711]

The Carter Copter demonstrator (modified Monarch gyro) says it has a mechanical automatic blade pitch mechanism...

"To improve the safety of the aircraft and simplify operation Carter developed a mechanical, rotor pitch controller. The controller initially holds the rotor pitch flat to minimize the hp required for take-off. When the pilot is ready for take-off he engages the controller. From that point on - through high-speed flight, vertical landing, shut down and the next vertical take-off - the rotor pitch is completely automatic with no pilot input. In order to keep the initial take-off Gs down the rate of pitch increase is also controlled. In addition, to stop the very high inertia rotor a brake had to be installed."

Does anyone know how this works? If it's mechanical, it can't be that sophisticated, I'm guessing something like a mechanical speed governor? Weights fly apart at high rpm, change the pitch of the blades, blades slow down. As the blades slow down, pitch decreases, blades speed up again. I'm guessing it's a good thing to have constant rotor rpm during all phases of flight?

I sure wish they'd start selling some of their cool technology, I'd love one of those Monarchs with 150 foot jump take-off! They've obviously got the molds for the carbon fiber rotors, why not start making and selling a few.

[Gyro_Kai]

Hello,

I had the honor to "test-fly" an X-plane flightsim model of the demonstrator.
The pitch change control is achieved hydraulicly. I'll try to dig up the documentation during the weekend. Basically, when released, the pitch goes from lift-neutral (slightly negative) beyond flight pitch in order to develop the right kick, and then reduces to in-flight pitch and stays there. It is highly sophisticated indeed and required some extra outside programming (in PHP) to even simulate it.

Kai.

[Dean_Dolph]

The Carter Copter demonstrator (modified Monarch gyro) says it has a mechanical automatic blade pitch mechanism...

"To improve the safety of the aircraft and simplify operation Carter developed a mechanical, rotor pitch controller. The controller initially holds the rotor pitch flat to minimize the hp required for take-off. When the pilot is ready for take-off he engages the controller. From that point on - through high-speed flight, vertical landing, shut down and the next vertical take-off - the rotor pitch is completely automatic with no pilot input. In order to keep the initial take-off Gs down the rate of pitch increase is also controlled. In addition, to stop the very high inertia rotor a brake had to be installed."

They have a couple of demonstators and the one based on the 'Butterfly' called the CarterGyro Demonstrator/Trainer does a vertical jump takeoff but I don't believe it changes pitch in flight. The quote you posted is for the 'real' CarterCopter.

The jump takeoff on the CarterGyro Demonstrator is for takeoff only and has to be prepped on the ground each time. It uses high inertia rotor blades to sustain the jump. But these blades resist yank and bank manuevers because of the high inertia.

PRA prez Rusty Nance demonstrated this machine at Mentone '07 several times a day. And there is a Utube video clip available. I believe this is the link. If not then just do a Utube search.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55cFpRycdKI

[MAX711]

They have a couple of demonstators and the one based on the 'Butterfly' called the CarterGyro Demonstrator/Trainer does a vertical jump takeoff but I don't believe it changes pitch in flight. The quote you posted is for the 'real' CarterCopter.

The jump takeoff on the CarterGyro Demonstrator is for takeoff only and has to be prepped on the ground each time. It uses high inertia rotor blades to sustain the jump. But these blades resist yank and bank manuevers because of the high inertia.

PRA prez Rusty Nance demonstrated this machine at Mentone '07 several times a day. And there is a Utube video clip available. I believe this is the link. If not then just do a Utube search.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55cFpRycdKI

You may be right Dean, but the quote was from the website referring to the modified "Butterfly" technology demonstrator. Here's the direct link and another quote below a picture of the Butterfly..

"To enable jump takeoffs, the aircraft has been modified with the Carter propeller & the two-setting Carter prop pitch control mechanism, the Carter designed mechanical pre-rotator, and the Carter rotor with automatic mechanical pitch control."

http://www.cartercopters.com/ctd-t.html

I'm pretty sure they're talking about the modified Butterfly, but maybe its a mistake on the website.

[Dean_Dolph]

You may be right Dean, but the quote was from the website referring to the modified "Butterfly" technology demonstrator. Here's the direct link and another quote below a picture of the Butterfly..

"To enable jump takeoffs, the aircraft has been modified with the Carter propeller & the two-setting Carter prop pitch control mechanism, the Carter designed mechanical pre-rotator, and the Carter rotor with automatic mechanical pitch control."

http://www.cartercopters.com/ctd-t.html

I'm pretty sure they're talking about the modified Butterfly, but maybe its a mistake on the website.I doubt if their web site has a mistake; it is just the definition of 'automatic' that is in question. And then I could be wrong; it has happened!

What I find interesting about Carter is that they are now talking about producing recreational gyros. I'm more interested in thier prop than anything else. But, I'm not holding my breath until they start producing components for sale.

[Timchick]

Once the pilot engages the pitch control the control "automatically" increases the pitch and then reduces the pitch to flying pitch. The pilot only has to initiate the procedure and then the control mechanism does the rest.

[Resasi]

Dean I've had a deposit down for quite a while now on the Carter two seat which they had said would act as a possible trainer/recreational gyro. I have however received a bit of a downer recently on being told that an expected approximate price for the two place would be $175,000 and not this year since they are concentrating on the 4 seater. This is regretfully a lot more than I had anticipated.

With Gyros like the Xenon and M-22 coming on the scene as tourers with decent X-country capability and a much lower price, one is prepared to forgo the jump TO and Vertical landing. After all strides are being made in more efficient pre-rotation, landing gears and stability at speed without variable pitch weighted tip rotors, tilt masts and complex struts. The age old bugbears of aviation remains cost and complexity

[All_In]

Dean I've had a deposit down for quite a while now on the Carter two seat which they had said would act as a possible trainer/recreational gyro. I have however received a bit of a downer recently on being told that an expected approximate price for the two place would be $175,000 and not this year since they are concentrating on the 4 seater. This is regretfully a lot more than I had anticipated.

With Gyros like the Xenon and M-22 coming on the scene as tourers with decent X-country capability and a much lower price, one is prepared to forgo the jump TO and Vertical landing. After all strides are being made in more efficient pre-rotation, landing gears and stability at speed without variable pitch weighted tip rotors, tilt masts and complex struts. The age old bugbears of aviation remains cost and complexity
Good observations!
IMHO 175K it's not worth it!
John

[autogyro]

It's seems that Carter changed his propeller of his gyro from the following pictrues. Is it ture?

[Dean_Dolph]

It's seems that Carter changed his propeller of his gyro from the following pictrues. Is it ture?Where did you get these pictures? If they are changing the prop I wonder why. The last I heard the patented Carter prop was the first component that was being shopped for manufacture.

[Luc De Keyser]

They took an off the shelf prop for now to speed up testing the rotor and all. They are a pretty small outfit and too many inventions to work out.

[troed@aon.at]

Don´t worry ´bout the Carter-2-seater. Might be that the Austrian Arrowcopter will implement some of the Carter-features and go to serial this year. Since the "proof of concept" was done last year the guys work on their own rotor/prop-system in coop with Eurocopter company in highest gear.

[GyroDoug]

It is exciting to watch new technology being developed. Carter Aviation has been working hard with a passion seen by few other companies. But what they are planning to accomplish is a giant step forward and will not come without a large cost.

It is unrealistic of us to think that they are going to develop this great new technology (that is a giant step ahead) and then be willing to sell off the parts that make it special to us, (at low cost) so we can all take advantage of their work, without having to pay much for it. It just isn't going to happen (in my opinion). If Carter Aviation or The Butterfly LLC is successful at developing and bringing to production a better mousetrap, they are going to expect you to buy the new and improved mousetrap from them so they can be compensated for the years they have spent developing that better mousetrap.

As a group (We experimental gyro builders) tend to try to do things ourselves and do them for less money because we are on a tight budget. There is nothing wrong with that and it often drives advances in our sport. There are some incredible people out there that like to invent and develop and are willing to share their successes with others (at no charge or very little charge) just because they want to see the sport develop and improve. (and they are not trying to make a living at it) However, there are others who are trying to make a living (while pursuing their dreams) and they have to be able to sell something and make some money or they aren't going to be around very long. For them to sell off their "gadget" or whatever it is that makes them special to gyro people at low cost, really isn't very wise if they want to be able to survive financially.

I wish Carter Aviation all the luck in the world and I believe they will eventually come out with a very impressive machine. But I don't believe it will be inexpensive or within my budget. For the most part, if you want to have cutting edge stuff, you need to be willing to learn all about something and pay the price to develop your own improvements. Isn't that what the whole "experimental" category is supposed to be all about?

Just my thoughts :)

Gyro Doug