View Full Version : Introducing the Golden Butterfly
07-22-2004, 07:45 PM
Check it out in the Light Sport Aircraft display at Oshkosh 04.
07-22-2004, 08:11 PM
Wow, that looks great. I had no idea a two place was in the works. It appears to have the g-force landing gear, is this true? Has it flown? You've been keeping this one under wraps obviously. Very Nice
07-22-2004, 08:24 PM
Looks very sexy.. i like it
one question: does not look like very much is holding the empennage at the top to the rest of the frame.. how sturdy is this part?
07-22-2004, 08:30 PM
Wow!!! nice looking machine. Neat way to fold the mast forward.
07-23-2004, 09:01 AM
Too Bad that landing gear will not fit on the Sparrow Hawk!!! No place up front to mount the arms that stop fore and aft movement.
07-23-2004, 11:11 AM
Looks like the rear seat pilot could hurt himself if he fell out of the seat on the ground (up high). Nice seating arrangement though if you want to cruise into your local drive-in theater.
matt thats a sweet looking machine
07-23-2004, 03:56 PM
Very, Very Nice and Innovative!
07-23-2004, 05:04 PM
And wow!! what a beautiful exhaust!!! Who suplied that Larry? Oh, thats right it was me!!!!!!!!!!
Don't they say "take advantage of the situation?"
Fine job Larry.
07-23-2004, 06:09 PM
Where does the mast fold? It looks like it folds at the top, but what good would that do?
Also I am not a big fan of that style nose pod. It looks cool but it doesn't look like it will keep the wind off the pilot very good.
The engine package is very nice! Neat tail too.
07-24-2004, 03:09 PM
And who are those cool looking dudes atop my gyro? :D
Finally . . .it looks beautifull guys!
Tests? Numbers? Videos?
I know. . . I know . . .I am feeling like a first time uncle too!!!
Ron: Is you patron saint St. Thomas? the one that needed proof?
Heron (feeling proud)
07-24-2004, 03:21 PM
Not funny! Your just jealous. Would'nt it be nice to have altitude before you left the ground. Once you go high you don't go back. Just ask Ken J. I remember him making fun of us sitting high.
I just don't understand why they put that high tech landing gear on it and use an electric motor for a prerotator. Surely they can come up with a better prerotator, maybe barrow some more of that Carter technology for that area too. Then the machine can be S.T.O.L. instead of just S.L. Just wondering. :)
07-24-2004, 05:23 PM
I am only a local gyro guy who has been witness to a lot of neat gyro stuff, and on occasion I get to fly some neat stuff too. I don't have any answers for anyones "whys" or "how comes." Please email Larry Neal for all your question and/or concerns. Of course you won't get any answers for at least two weeks since he is partying it up at OSHKOSH! :)
07-24-2004, 06:06 PM
Geez, Mike. You're like an elephant. You never forget.
07-25-2004, 09:02 AM
I resemble that remark( need to lose weight). :)
07-25-2004, 10:05 AM
You know that I just meant the memory part, Mike. Don't get me in more trouble.
07-26-2004, 12:26 PM
I was just kidding.
07-26-2004, 07:51 PM
. . .and I was thinking something else . . . :eek:
07-27-2004, 03:59 PM
I learned at Mentone that CarterCopter created a different landing gear design for the Butterfly than the one Larry chose to install. Apparently he had his reasons and own ideas.
07-27-2004, 07:18 PM
There is no Carter Copter landing Gear, it is only the shock absorber!
The gear is Larry's creation alone. The other landing gear was just an exercise that never was tested in real flying conditions.
I will have to nail my fingers to my desk!
07-27-2004, 09:50 PM
Heron, I know that what is installed now is not a CarterCopter creation. But they DID design one for Larry that utilized their smart strut. Just because Larry didn't use the design doesn't negate that.
07-28-2004, 06:39 AM
I like Jay Carter Jr. a lot. He is a good engineer and his ship is going to help gyros to get to the point they deserve.
All the time we had personal encounters, Jay was a gentleman, friendly and forthcoming. He gave me many insights on his work and I was honored to participate in some deep discussions.
The landing gear he designed was only an exercise, never intended to be flown.
One day we can post the pictures and all can see what it was and what his intentions were.
A Butterfly frame was put together just for those tests and the static pressure tests where the frame took 3.000 pounds of hydrolic pull. NOt a problem other than scratching the paint where the belts ran.
The G-Force is the landing gear, was the landing gear and will be the landing gear for the Monarch and the Golden, lets keep our ears open for the tests, it is a much heavier ship.
There are other shocks for testing and option, all of them work good with the suspension and do the job, so far CArter's is the best, but it is custom made, you can not buy it at your regular distributor.
When I comment the PRA situation, I enfaticly say: I heard this or that, not my info, but here is my opinion and it will be a fact for me when proof is presented and my opinion will certainly change when I hear the other side . . .if that is going to happen one day, I am just a member unimportant and foolish.
Talk is free, thinking is precious, getting informed is wonderful!
07-28-2004, 08:23 PM
Jay designed a strut incorporating Carter technology for the Monarch single place. It is currently on the Monarch that Carter bought from Larry. The strut can be obtained from CAT(Carter Aviation Technologies). At this time no definite price has been set. No strut has been designed for the much heavier 2 place. A large truck air shock is currently installed. The 2 place prototype has not been flown, so the final choice for the strut shock has not been determined.
Mad Max II LTC
07-29-2004, 08:52 AM
HI Brad, thanks!
Are you guys having much fun?
MIss you all . . . :(
08-04-2004, 10:04 PM
The strut is ingenious. I like the way it gradually meters out the air in a steady deceleration.
I saw both Larry and Brad at the Butterfly/Carter booth. The Golden was the ONLY gyro in the sport pilot display. There was also a South African guy from Carter there, an interesting cat. I hope I have his name ratholed somewhere, cause it ain't in my skull.
Gyros were not well represented at Oshkosh. Greg Gremminger and Darren Twellman were there with their Magnis, and Ron Herron was there with the Radial Little Wing. RAF and AAI had large and small displays respectively, and were flying at Fondy. I went to AAI to put a deposit on a S'hawk before the price went up, and they wanted 50%! Don't keep that in checking so I am still a free agent and not locked into a sale.
08-04-2004, 10:49 PM
Oh yeah, the Golden looks awesome in pictures but it is really awe-inspiring in reality. That sucker is BIG! The prototype is registered as an ultralight trainer as the owner wants to take UL instruction in it.
08-05-2004, 04:00 AM
Thanx for your Oshkosh report Kevin. Was Carl Schneider not there?
08-05-2004, 04:13 AM
That's one big mother of a gyro. :eek:
I'd git a nose bleed just sit'n in it on the ground. :D
08-05-2004, 04:53 AM
Carl was at OshKosh. I seen him in the ultralight area and said Hi to him . He was in a hurry going somewhere, so we didn't get to talk.
08-05-2004, 05:14 AM
It has a NHC Planetary Redrive. Is Larry going to start manufacturing them again or will there be differn't redrives on the production kits?
08-07-2004, 02:22 PM
He will be putting them for the Suby powered machines that he builds. No plans to put them on the market at this time. Later,maybe? Unknown.
Mad Max II LTC
08-07-2004, 06:37 PM
Kevin, at EAA/Arlington last year, AAI required a deposit on purchase to get a demo ride!
08-08-2004, 10:53 AM
AAI was giving demos at Fond Du Lac. $50 a pop the only requirement.
Mad Max II LTC
08-10-2004, 10:07 PM
Thanx for your Oshkosh report Kevin. Was Carl Schneider not there?
De nada. Report is what I do. I regret to say I don't know Carl Schneider. At the risk of sounding like a dumbass, who is he?
I got to spend VERY little time on Rotorcraft... I had to cover everything from the Beech Spar AD to aeromedical to spacecraft, to warbirds.
As I said I went to put a deposit on an AAI and they wanted 50%. By the time I got home I had other aircraft on the hook... I can only fly one at a time but I am still looking to do a deal for a gyro, 30+ hours of training, and onsite (their site) builder assistance.
The AAI cabin is almost too big for me... a very tall man could fit there as long as his height is mostly legs more than torso. I have to put the ground adjustable seat way forward.
"STOL? The rotor is the ultimate high-lift device." -Jay Carter Jr.
08-10-2004, 10:15 PM
Brad and Paul,
I think that's technically an "introductory instructional flight" to keep them legal in Part 91. If you could have put a $50, or $5,000 deposit on a S'hawk I would have done it at OSH and followed up with the rest once i got home.
The Golden is awesome but not far enough along for me. If I could have two gyros I would want an enclosed 2-seater and a Monarch.
08-10-2004, 10:51 PM
Hi Chuck, Carl was there with a gyro representing PRA and flying when it was rotorcraft time. He is a very personable fellow and a great representive. He has a very inovative autogyro that garnerd much attention. Thank You, Vance
08-11-2004, 02:58 AM
Thanks Kevin and Vance. Yes, Carl's machine is a one-of-a-kind machine that will also carry a small passenger to speeds of probably 120 mph, or better, and he is a very likable guy. I'm sorry you didn't get to meet him, Kevin.
08-11-2004, 04:47 AM
Carl is the guy who uses full size bicycle wheels on his gyros. He also drives a weird looking, rare, motorhome. Let me see if I got some pics here.....
Well no I couldn't find one on my harddrive. Think Dominator gyro with mountain bike wheels and you got Carls machine.
08-11-2004, 06:30 AM
Here's a not-so-good shot of Carl's machine:
08-11-2004, 06:49 AM
Thanx Mike. Is that a pretty old shot taken before the tail was painted? It looks like it was taken at Bastrop?
08-12-2004, 08:40 PM
Mike, I have a friend who went to Osk. and took pictures, I don't know how to post them but I will email them to you and you can if you like. Enjoyed the visit and I have the garage leveled and covered in plastic , ready for concrete.
08-12-2004, 08:55 PM
The picture was taken at Bastrop, but I don't recall when or by whom.
Here is a link to a thread I wrote on posting pictures:
I enjoyed the visit also. I meant to respond to your email, but got sidetracked. I'll send you something tomorrow.
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