Sport Pilot

[Rando]

FAA ISSUES SPORT PILOT RULE: Yesterday, the Administrator announced the long-awaited sport pilot rule. “We want to make aviation safe and affordable for recreational pilots,” she said. “This sport pilot, light-sport aircraft rule reduces the barriers to becoming a pilot and an aircraft owner while assuring that safety will always be the priority.” To further explain what the rule itself is all about, we’ll let excerpts of her remarks at the press briefing tell the story:

“Effective September 1, the FAA begins to certify sport pilots and their aircraft. …
Today, there are about 15,000 of these unregulated aircraft being flown in the United States…. Within some very tight operating guidelines, the average person will be able to fly one of these light sport aircraft with a minimum of 20 hours of instruction and flight training…. These pilots will earn a certificate that enables them to fly during the day when there are three miles of visibility at altitudes below 10,000 feet. And they can carry one passenger as well.

“The big difference comes in the cost. The typical private pilot's license costs approximately $9,000 and generally takes months to achieve. With the new sport pilot certificate we’re announcing today, it can be $2,600 dollars…. In return, the pilot gets the benefit of certification standards for the aircraft, maintenance, inspection, training and flight reviews that previously were unavailable in this industry.”

At one point in the press briefing, the Administrator announced that the sport rule was “long in coming.” As I understand it, the rule was first proposed by industry in 1988, and for years the FAA was hoping the issue would go away because initially we didn’t even agree these aerial vehicles were “aircraft,” and they surely didn’t fit into any of our traditional operating or certification regulations. Finally, in the mid-90s when it was clear these “whatever-they-were” and the growing enthusiasm for them were not going away, we started discussing ways to fit them into our regulatory scheme, and yesterday was the culmination of that long journey. If the sport pilot rule were a well-aged Scotch it would be just about ready for drinking.

Randy Olson

[Rando]

go to: http://www.faa.gov/newsroom/

for all the details!

Randy Olson

[Chuck Baltzer]

Can anybody answer this question? The Light Sport Aircraft Synopsis posted on SportPilot.org states; "...light sport aircraft may be used for sport and recreational flying, instruction and rental..." <p>If I have a commercial pilot certificate, does this mean that a person can "rent" the aircraft, and "hire" me, as a commercially rated pilot, to fly him where ever he'd like to go? <p>In other words, can a commercial pilot buy a Light Sport Aircraft and legally start charging people money for rides in the aircraft? <p>Thanks in advance for any response. -Chuck Baltzer

[rfi]

Chuck,
That is true that an instructor can buy a Special Light Sport Aircraft and charge for instruction in the ship and also rent it out.

If you have an amateur built experimental aircraft (not LSA) you can hire an instructor to teach you in your own ship but there is a "catch 22" in that passengers can't be carried until the time is flown off on it, so you would have to hire someone qualified to fly off the time.

The Special Light Sport Aircraft (factory built) gets away from the catch 22 problems.

[Chuck Baltzer]

Ok, but let's say that we're not talking in terms of flight instruction, but that a commercial pilot simply wants to buy a LSA and start charging people for rides, just like he could do in a Cessna 172?<p>Will this particular scenerio be legal? If so, this could truly be revolutionary- scenic rides, air taxi, shuttle rides, photography, airport service flights, patrol flights, search and rescue, pipe-line patrol, transportation to remote areas ect., and all the pilot needs is a commercial certificate and a new LSA?<p>Also, thank you Don for many years of a great magazine, I looked forward to reading Home Built RotorCraft magazine every month (as I'm sure most subscribers did) more than any other magazine. -Chuck Baltzer

[KenSandyEggo]

I think the renting refers to a CFI renting to his or her student. If I'm wrong....never mind.

[rfi]

Wrong!!!!!!! Anyone will be able to rent Special Light Sport Aircraft to anyone that is qualified to fly them. Notice that I said "Special" LSA which means factory assembled ships ready to fly which also means that gyroplanes will not be available in that category.

AAI was very disappointed because gyros were not included since they wanted to build ready-to-fly gyros. I don't think any of the other gyro manufacturers except probably Magni are interested in building "Special" LSA gyros. Magni already builds ready-to-fly gyros under the European Microlight category.

Chuck, I am not sure if Special LSA aircraft can be used for all of the commercial ventures that you mentioned. And, even though we have sold Homebuilt Rotorcraft magazine, I will still be regularly writing the Rotorcraft Power column and probably other articles on a random basis

It may be five years before the FAA looks at gyros again and decided whether or not to include them in the Special LSA category.

[KenSandyEggo]

Don P., while taking a break from counting his money stuffed in old Bull Durham bags, shouted: "Wrong!!!!!!!" Hey! You were supposed to "never mind" me. :o

[rfi]

Sorry for being so blunt, Ken. And, I haven't had a sack of Bull Durham since I was a kid. We used to hide it in a ditch near the house inside Prince Albert can.

One other note on the Sport Pilot scenario. Don't ever take a medical exam for Private Pilot if you have any doubts. If you have failed a medical you will have hell getting approved to fly under Sport Pilot rules. Just let your medical expire and revert to Sport Pilot. You can fly forever as a Sport Pilot if you have never failed a medical.

[KenSandyEggo]

I wasn't offended, Don. Just joshing a little.

[scott heger]

I think the biggest problem with Sport Pilot is with the "annual". My understanding is you have to attend a 120 hour course to be able to do your yearly annual inspections. Short of doing that, you can only do some normal pilot maintance, no modifications, etc, without a certified mechanic. I built my SportCopter experimental kit in far less time than 120 hours, and was able to easily get the repairman's certificate for it without any formal training(right or wrong). Many A&p's don't want anything to do with light aircraft, and I think many new owners will be in for a ugly bill every year at inspection time. So much for cheap flying.

Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel, Ca SportCopter N86SH

[Chuck Baltzer]

If a person already has a private pilot certificate, does this automatically qualify him/her to receive a Sport Pilot Certificate without any further training or tests? <p>This would be a nice bonus for private pilots, to be able to just mail in some paper work to the FAA and then receive their Sport Pilot Certificate without the added time, work and expense of more tests and training.<p>I'm not sure if it's going to be that simple.

[Ralph]

Chuck,

If you have a Private certificate you can get a Sport Pilot certificate just by filling out the paperwork.

Ralph

[Rando]

What would be the advantage of doing that?

[Rando]

I guess it would be advantageous if you can't get a medical anymore?

[Ralph]

The best example is when you feel you may have trouble renewing your medical! If uncertain*, don't try for it. Just let it lapse and fly on your Sport Pilot certificate with a "drivers license" medical.

Ralph

* If you are denied or revoked for an existing medical, they will force you to jump through a lot of additional hoops until they tell you if you qualify.

[Chuck Baltzer]

Well, I'm not sure if there's any other advantage except for the medical advantage, but that can be a very great advantage for a person that needs it.<p>I was curious about this (automatically qualifying for a Sport Certificate by having a Private Certificate) because several years ago an aquaintance of mine said he tried to get a new certificate called; "recreational" by using his private certificate to automatically qualify, and he was told that recreational was different from private and that he'd have to retrain to obtain such a rating.<p>That whole situation doesn't make much sense, and I'm not sure if he was really telling the truth. But it is good to know that a private pilot can get his Sport Certificate right away and not bother with the medical certificate if he figures he does not need it (a private certificate) for the type of flying he'll be doing.

[ahancock]

Does a private pilot have to apply for a sport pilot licence or does a private license without a medical default to sport pilot?

[cgmg]

I have two questions related to the rules. A friend of mine just became a Trike BFI, and according to him, if you do not already have an Ultralight pilot's license prior to Sept. 1, you will not be able to avoid the dual training requirement, even though you already have training hours in your logbook.

My wife and I are scheduled to take our Ultralight pilot's license tests on Sept. 11th or 12th. Is this going to be too late to be able to avoid the dual training requirement?

The other question is: If we get our gyros certified with an N-number, and get a Repairman certificate, prior to applying for Sport Pilot, can we avoid the 120-hour training requirement for annual signoff?

Hopefully someone out there can answer these questions, as my two knowledgable sources are both at Oshkosh right now.

[chuter]

The way I understand it, if you certify your aircraft as experimental, you can get the repairman's certificate that people have been getting for experimentals, and work on your aircraft without training since you built it.

Does this sound right? That's what I'm planning on doing, so I hope it's right.

[Ralph]

(1) If you have the Private you will have to apply for the Sport Pilot - you automatically qualify but they will not issue the SP certificate without an application.

(2) The 1 Sep 04 date for the Ultralight Pilot registration is uncertain. I do know if you have a BFI after 01 Sep and want a Sport Pilot CFI, you will need extra dual on a sliding scale that runs out about 3 years. If you had the BFI on Sep 01 then there is no additional dual as long as you finish the rest of the requirements in a timely manner. I suspect that a similar system will be in place for pilot registration. I would follow the situation on the ASC website since they have the largest pool of registered pilots and BFIs.

I haven't looked in detail at the repairman qualifications so cannot comment there. I would guess however that the training requirement applies to working on certificated LSAs. Experimental LSAs will probably involve your automatically qualifying to work on your aircraft if you were the one who built it.

Ralph

Ralph

[Chuck Baltzer]

Ralph, sorry to bug you with so many questions, but where could I get one of those applications for getting a Sport Pilot rating added onto my private certificate? Thanks- Chuck Baltzer

[Ralph]

They probably don't exist yet. The FAA is expecting to start issuing the new certificates around the first of the year.

Ralph

[Chuck Baltzer]

Hi, I haven't been on the Rotary Forum in over a year, has anybody found out how to get a Sport Pilot rating added onto a regular Private Pilot Certificate? Are there any special papers to fill out? Are there any Rotary Forum threads covering the subject? Are there any web sites with the necessary information? Thanks in advance for any replies. -Chuck

[OldOneEye]

Chuck, go to http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/sport_pilot/media/sp_certification_brochure.pdf. This will givew you the answers you are looking for.

Earl mahoney

[Chuck Roberg]

The best site for information is the EAA Sport Pilot site at www.sportpilot.org (http://www.sportpilot.org)

Take some time going thru the site. It sholud answer most of your questions.

[OldOneEye]

Chuck, you may have to "right click" the link, download it to disk and then open with Adobe Reader as it is in pdf format.

Earl

[Chuck Baltzer]

Thank you Earl and Chuck. I have carefully read through the above web sites and found the more generic answer that "A private pilot certificate will automatically default to a Sport Pilot certificate when a private pilot is flying a Light Sport Aircraft". This is not exactly the question that I was asking: What I'd like to know is whether a certificated private pilot can get a Sport Pilot rating added onto his or her private pilot certificate just by mere virtue of the fact of already being a private pilot. Specifically- what forms would a person need to request from the FAA, as Ralph mentioned in his post of 07/29/04 (see above), in order to qualify to have the Sport Pilot rating added onto his or her already existing private certificate? His or her certificate would then read something like this:

Airplane- SEL
Rotorcraft- Helicopter
Sport Pilot

Again, thank you in advance for any response that anybody might have relating to this question. -Chuck Baltzer

[Chuck Roberg]

Oop's sorry Chuck, I'll try to answer as best I can.

Since you already have a pilots certificate. This will act as your Sport Pilot certificate when you are operating under Sport Pilot rules. In other words you will not get a new certificate stating "Sport Pilot".

So if you are a F/W pilot, you can let your medical lapse and continue flying Light Sport Aircraft.

If you also fly Gyro's but never added the rating but want to add the Sport Pilot for gyros. Then you will need an instructor's endorsement for a check ride. Then another instructor to provide the check ride. Upon sucessful completion of the check ride the instructor will endorse your logbook for Sport Pilot Gyroplane and whatever class gyroplane you took the test in. The instructor will also submit the required paperwork to the FAA. But you will not get a new certificate stating "Sport Pilot". All add on categories and classes are done thru logbook endorsements.

So if you want to show someone all your ratings. Instead if just pulling out your Pilot's certificate, you'll have to pull out your logbook(s) as well.

[Chuck Baltzer]

Aw...man!! Bummer! I wanted to add "Sport Pilot" onto my certificate. (I already have Airplane and Helicopter.) My goal was to be able to pop out my certificate and show it to people and have it read- Airplane- Helicopter- Sport Pilot.

So- what you're saying is that if a pilot already has any kind of rating, then he can never get a "Sport Pilot" certificate, per se? (I understand that he already qualifies to fly the sport planes and gyroplanes with his private certificate, but he can't have "Sport Pilot" printed on his certificate?)

What a bummer... I was really looking forward to that!

[Chuck Roberg]

Get a Sport Pilot CFI rating. Then you will get a second certificate showing Sport Pilot CFI. :)

[Chuck Baltzer]

Well, that's not exactly what I had in mind- I was under the impression that if you had a private certificate, then you could just get the words "Sport Pilot" added onto your certificate- no additional training and no additional expense (except for the fee of having a new certificate printed).

But I suppose...that's not the case?

[Robert G. Stark]

A private pilot rating is a higher rating that includes sport pilot. A sport pilot license WILL NOT have catagory and class on it. Your logbook entries cover that. IE if you got your private pilot in a Cessna 150 or a Cherokee 140, your check ride log book entry is good for Airplane, tricycle, over 87 VH. If you have a tail wheel endorsement, that will cover Tail wheel over 87VH. If you have a sea plane rating, that is good for Sea (airplane) over 87 VH. If you want to fly any of the others all you need is a CFI endorsment. This is all if you want to fly as a SPORT Pilot with only your drivers license as a medical.
Feel free to ask questions on this. I have been to the FAA school on sport pilot, I give programs to EAA chapters, FAA seminars and other on the Sport pilot rules.
Bob Stark

[Chuck Roberg]

I understand what you want to do. But it's already implied if you have higher privileges then the lower privileges also apply.

Such as, I have a commercial gyroplane certificate. My certificate states only Commercial Pilot Gyroplane. It does not state Private Pilot Gyroplane. It's implied that since I have Commercial Pilot privileges I also have Private Pilot privileges.

For a definitive answer. Go back to the EAA site and submit your question there. You'll get an email answer back in a few days.

[Robert G. Stark]

IF YOU HAVE A PRIVATE PILOT CERTIFICATE, YOU CANNOT GET A SPORT PILOT CERTIFICATE, YOU ALREADY HAVE ALL OF THE SPORT PILOT PRIVILEGES.
Bob Stark

[Chuck Roberg]

Robert. Why are you SHOUTING??? :rolleyes:

[Chuck Baltzer]

Well, for anybody who's interested, I sent the question to the EAA and here's what they had to say-

Hello Charles,

You do not need to make any changes on your existing pilot certificate in order to operate at the sport pilot level. The FAA will not print anything on your certificate, nor will they give you a separate sport pilot certificate. You simply use your existing higher-level pilot certificate as is. So, the specific answer to your question is no, a private pilot cannot have "sport pilot" printed on his/her certificate. It remains unchanged.

Hope this helps!

Joe Norris
EAA Aviation Services
EAA Aviation Center, Oshkosh, WI
888-322-4636, extension 6806
jnorris@eaa.org

I don't think this is much of a surprise to anybody at this point, but (once again) it puts the issue to rest. -CB

[Robert G. Stark]

I was not trying to shout, I just forgot to turn off the capital button. Besides, I really wanted everyone to see and know.
Have a Great landing.

[gyroplanes]

We have a window of just over 2 years to get factory built gyroplanes and gyros that don't meet the eligibility requirements for Experimental Amateur-Built into LSA certification.

If the gyro meets the definition of LSA it is eligible (unless it is a legal part 103 or has been previously certified)

The important thing to note is that they WILL NOT have to meet the ASTM standards. Some folks think the ASTM standards apply to all LSA aircraft and it isn't so (even though there are some of us that wish the standards would apply).

The down side is that until there is an FAA approved 16 hour gyro inspection course (we are working on that) and you earned your Repairmans certificate for gyroplane inspection, you would have to hire an A&P to perform your annual condition inspection. That need would arise 1 year after earning your LSA Airworthiness certificate.

I've just returned from OKC, OK. and the FAA LSA DAR school. The list of LSA DARs is growing.