PRA Convention

[rustynance]

I realize Bensen Days isn't even over yet but it is definitely time to start planning and soliciting volunteers for Mentone.
I'll list just a few of the areas we need help in should anyone like to volunteer.
Concession Stand (We desperately need help here. Any help for any length of time would be much appreciated.
Grounds Prep
Awards (need judges again)
These are only three of many. Anything you can do to help is welcome. Jane Feldman and John Gillmore are the convention chairpersons this year and I expect great things from them, but they need your help.
With hard work this convention can be even better than last year. May be some very interesting forums this year (don't want to let the cat of the bag before it is trapped.)
Sorry this is disjointed but too many irons in the fire and not enough firewood.
Thanks in advance.

Rusty

[B. Jackson]

I discussed this at great length last night with my girlfriend before committing.

Please mark us down as a Concession Stand attendant for much of the convention. I make a mean hamburger and am extremely friendly with all patrons. If someone would be kind enough to let us sleep in their facilities all will be solved.

May I request one simple thing? Would someone there in a 2-place be kind enough to reward her efforts with a Gyro flight?

I've been trying to explain to her the beauty of this form of flight since we met. First hand experience might save a lot of dialog. I do have a funny feeling she'll be joining our passion after that. It's her personality, and one I've come to love so much.

Regardless, I'll be there to cook for people if you'll let me, and I guarantee my burgers are the best you've ever tasted. I take pride in everything I do. I can imagine no greater service than feeding the ones whom have taught me so much.

Let me know.

Cheers,
Brian

[CSmith]

I hope to attend the Mentone meet this year and I would be glad to help in any way that I can. It sounds like a great way to meet some people and give back a fraction of what I've gained since joining the PRA. The only hitch is that I won't know for sure if I'm going until around July.
Best Regards, Clayton

[CLS447]

Brian, how much can you do with a frozen burger patty ?

I am sure your help would be appreciated!

As for those facilities.....If I go , you are welcome to use my spare tent. Hotels are a bit of a distance from the airport.

[Dean_Dolph]

...... As for those facilities.....If I go , you are welcome to use my spare tent. Hotels are a bit of a distance from the airport.Ha, that's only because you can't follow directions and get lost in the corn fields!

[barnstorm2]

May I request one simple thing? Would someone there in a 2-place be kind enough to reward her efforts with a Gyro flight?



I would be happy to give you both a ride in my Twinstarr if you so desire.

.

[B. Jackson]

I would be happy to give you both a ride in my Twinstarr if you so desire.

.

Thank you, Tim! Looking forward to meeting you.
Regards,
Brian & Kathi

[B. Jackson]

Brian, how much can you do with a frozen burger patty ?

I am sure your help would be appreciated!

As for those facilities.....If I go , you are welcome to use my spare tent. Hotels are a bit of a distance from the airport.

Thank you very much. Kathi and I are eager to meet you. BTW, the secret's in the sauce.
Cheers,
Brian & Kathi

[rustynance]

Brian, Appreciate any help you can give. I'll let Jane and John know.
Thanks again,
Rusty

[PW_Plack]

Brian, how much can you do with a frozen burger patty ?

C'mon, Chris, be patient. He can't answer until he's finished modeling the patty in CAD software!

[CLS447]

Good morning Paul , You just caught that now ? It's in the CAD & the sauce !

It's gonna rain here all day, I wished I was In Wauchula !

[B. Jackson]

Brian, how much can you do with a frozen burger patty ?

C'mon, Chris, be patient. He can't answer until he's finished modeling the patty in CAD software!

After running FEA and shear/tensile calcs (for ease of chewing) I'm confident the prototype (beta version) burgers are within parameters of human consumption. Raytraced some preliminary 3D renderings, but still working on randomization pattern for the sesame seeds. Should be nice and juicy by production date.

[GyroRon]

Rusty, another idea I wanted to discuss before your board meeting at Bensen Days is a possibility of a " perk " to PRA members by allowing a discounted rate for admission and camping at PRA fly-ins. Even if this means going up on the rate to non PRA members to make up for it.

To be honest, other than a magazine there is not alot the PRA offers for the 50$ dues we send in, the more you can offer for the money the better the reasoning is to join or renew..... just my two cents.

[route66]

Ron, a good question about perks for PRA Members.
The sad thing I have seen is the PRA is just trying to exist and has us in survival mode and any perks are out of the question.
There are a handful of energetic members who work hard for PRA, but as you can see even with their efforts the group is on a down hill slide. There is 2295 Forum Members and probably twice that in lurkers yet only 1400 PRA Members, Why? How can we get more involved in making it better?

[GyroRon]

It is simply too expensive for most to want to be a member anymore. I personally want to support the PRA, but I am having a hard time justifying 50$ in dues. I don't really care if I get the magazine or not. I would rather send the PRA 20$ and get nothing, than to send in 50$ and get the magazine.

[gyromike]

Yep.

$50 is getting steep.

Isn't the airport paid for by now? If so, that should have freed up some funding for the magazine. We need more articles, a snappier layout, and most of all we need to market it outside of our group if we want more members.

Ron, why not write an article about your new gyro? Add a few pictures and a flight review.

[barnstorm2]

Everyone who took photos at B-Days should send a few into the PRA for use in the Mag and web site.

I completely agree with Mike. Ron, you should write up a build report and send it in with a few photos!

.

[GyroRon]

To be brutally honest, I am just too pressed for time and I am too lazy right now to write a article.

Plus by posting my build progress here I have been able to reach 3 to 10 times as many people as the magazine reaches.

I don't think Rick is hurting for articles. If he was I think he would post here and ask for submissions. There is decades of past magazines that had great articles he could easily reprint that would be good fun reading.

I think the problem is the PRA hasn't the money right now to allow more content in the magazines.

I was looking forward to being able to log onto the PRA website and view old back issues and what ever happened to that?

[Dean_Dolph]

.....To be honest, other than a magazine there is not alot the PRA offers for the 50$ dues we send in, the more you can offer for the money the better the reasoning is to join or renew..... just my two cents.To be honest Ron, you are ignoring that the PRA has provided you with the privilege of flying a safe gyro. Who do you think has provided us with the info that has led to safer machines? Does the names of PRA members Chuck Beaty, Doug Riley, Greg Gremminger and a host of others ring a bell for you?!!

If Dr. Bensen hadn't started the PRA then the gyro as we know it would have long disappeared as a viable recreational machine let alone the developments by Jay Carter and the Groen Bros. These last two have their roots in the PRA!

And what about your gyro pilots license? How do you think you would have acquired one if it hadn't been for the PRA?

The fact is that paying dues to keep the PRA alive, well and growing is partial payback for all that came about before you got involved, or alive for that matter. And if you hadn't noticed the magazine has started to move back to where it was before the organizations financial crisis. Oh yeah, in case you missed it the following was in a recent issue of the magazine. With the exception of the 5209 exemption it is still all true. And loss of the 5209 exemption was mitigated by the PRA with the letter of deviation package for the CFIs.

WHAT IS THE BENEFIT OF JOINING THE PRA?

1. The PRA is the only organization dedicated to Gyroplane Safety
2. The PRA is the only organization dedicated to gyroplane education.
3. The PRA is the only organization to offer gyroplane training by certified flight instructors under an FAA exemption.
4. The PRA is the only organization that offers a rotorcraft focused magazine.
5. The PRA is the only organization that the FAA recognizes as the source of amateur built rotorcraft technical expertise.
6. The PRA is the only organization that offers political leverage with the FAA.
7. The PRA is the organization that the FAA is expecting to provide the reasons to grant gyroplane SLSA and LSA category status.
8. The PRA is the organization that the FAA is depending on to improve the gyroplane safety record.
9. The PRA is the only internationally known rotorcraft organization that has a continuous group of volunteers dedicated to maintaining an organization for rotorcraft enthusiasts.

Benefits of the PRA:
• PRA maintains the 5209 Experimental Gyroplane Exemption. Without that exemption, training to fly gyroplanes would be much less available and likely much less organized and effective. The safety record of flying gyroplanes would likely be much, much worse. Through the PRA 5209 Training Exemption, the availability of gyroplane certificated Instructors is growing, removing the traditional impediment to timely and effective development of safe pilots.
• The PRA is the understood representative for the gyroplane and Experimental Rotorcraft community. The FAA, the EAA and other aviation organizations and authorities turn to and expect PRA leadership in safety and training. The PRA works with regulatory and other institutions to address issues impacting, related to and benefiting the sport of gyroplanes. There is no other sport rotorcraft entity to which these other organizations can turn to with the same credibility and expectations. The PRA represents you, the Experimental rotorcraft flier and enthusiast, and especially you, the gyroplane pilot.
• The PRA members roster includes a wealth of resources and expertise in the technology of gyroplanes. The PRA and volunteer members work endlessly to improve the safety and growth of the gyroplane industry and sport through its Rotorcraft magazine and website. It is through PRA efforts, mostly voluntary from our depth of expertise resources, that gyroplane safety has been much improved in the last decade.
• The PRA has been instrumental in the inclusion of gyroplane pilots in the New US FAA Sport Pilot rules. Because of PRA efforts early in and throughout the development of the Sport Pilot rules, gyroplane pilots are able to take advantage of the Sport Pilot rules, such as flying without medical, and more readily available training and licensing.
• The PRA has been instrumental in the development of the Light Sport Gyroplane ASTM standards. These standards are influencing and educating the industry and the sport in the technical issues to avoid the traditional safety issues of PIO, buntovers and other traditional gyroplane safety issues. The ASTM standards, largely because of PRA and member input and expertise, are influencing gyroplane safety and growth.
• Articles and resources in the PRA Rotorcraft magazine and on the PRA website provide instructional and technical aerodynamic information to educate fliers in important material and information to help them make more informed and safer decisions. Knowledge is safety, and the PRA is a large bank of knowledgeable individuals sharing their information to help members more safely enjoy their sport.
• The PRA and its Chapters provide a network of local, national and international gyroplane enthusiasts for beginners and experienced fliers alike to converse with and learn from at various meetings and event gatherings.
• The PRA provides a close and enthusiastic social network for the growth and enjoyment of all its members to share their mutual passion.
• The PRA provides and maintains reference resources for safety, training, regulatory issues, chapters and members.
• The PRA, with its growth programs, has identified exciting new projects and expectations whereby it may become an even more useful resource for Instructors, Students, and general sport rotorcraft enthusiasts. These include website enhancements to provide more in-depth reference resources, printed material archives, and member's discussions and communications.

[Dean_Dolph]

.....There are a handful of energetic members who work hard for PRA, but as you can see even with their efforts the group is on a down hill slide. There is 2295 Forum Members and probably twice that in lurkers yet only 1400 PRA Members, Why? How can we get more involved in making it better?The downhill slide has stopped!! Now, it is up to those who care about continuing to enjoy amateur rotorcraft to step up and promote the PRA.

I'm not in the mood to be nice about this after reading Ron's post so I'll say the reason that we have 2295 Forum members and all the lurkers and only 1400 (not sure that number is correct!) PRA members is because the world is full of freeloaders and loafers!

There I've said it and I feel better!

[Dean_Dolph]

It is simply too expensive for most to want to be a member anymore. I personally want to support the PRA, but I am having a hard time justifying 50$ in dues. I don't really care if I get the magazine or not. I would rather send the PRA 20$ and get nothing, than to send in 50$ and get the magazine.What, $50 is too expensive! Cut back one trip a month to McDonald's and you pay your PRA dues and be healthier besides. You can't get a better deal than that!

[Dean_Dolph]

......Plus by posting my build progress here I have been able to reach 3 to 10 times as many people as the magazine reaches......Yeah, but will the info be easily available years down the road?
......I think the problem is the PRA hasn't the money right now to allow more content in the magazines. I believe you are right up to a point. The financial bleeding seems to have stopped and now it is a case of laying out the plans for the future.

......I was looking forward to being able to log onto the PRA website and view old back issues and what ever happened to that?Again, it is a money thing.

Although volunteers are steadily working to make this all happen, it is going to take some time.

Why don't you start donating one yard's mowing money a month to the PRA and solicit others to follow your lead and make this type of project happen sooner? Or you can do what those of us that are on a fixed income do and show some patience and wait.

[CLS447]

$50 is getting tough, I agree!

Noone ever responded to my post under PRA.....

I should have become a life member a long time ago, Then it would be free now.

What is the deal with that ?

[Dean_Dolph]

$50 is getting tough, I agree!

No one ever responded to my post under PRA.....

I should have become a life member a long time ago, Then it would be free now.

What is the deal with that ?I have no idea why the life member category was created in the first place other than it might have been done at a time when the PRA needed an infusion of cash. But from that point on it has been a drag on the finances since the 'free' magazine costs money.

And that drag continues until us life members die off or do the right thing and start contributing our $50 dues. Life membership is no longer available and a reveiw/modification of the bylaws (hopefully done soon!) should reflect that.

If I read my notes from Mentone '07 (no guarantee!) then at that time there were 265 life members and 1435 paying members.

Someone mentioned to me at Bensen Days '08 that it is not the $50 as such but that it wasn't 49.99! It was pointed out that psychologically the whole number, $50, has a larger impact than $49.99 and we never see products sold at the whole dollar amount because of that. True? Have no idea!

I've pointed out in my response to Ron that this is a case of priorities. Do smokers stop smoking so they can afford to fly? Do people stop going to McDonalds so they can fly? Etcetera, etcetera!

The fact that we are presently having a financial crisis in the U.S. is, in part, because our citizens have lost the ability/desire to live within their means which means establishing a budget. They want everything they desire ‘now’; not tomorrow but now and screw the consequences! So, if people are having a difficulty finding money to fly that means they give up the idea or they cut back some where else. Oh mercy, mercy!

[GyroRon]

Dean, I send in $50 to the PRA as dues. For that I get a magazine. I do not really care if I do not get the magazine.... I would like to support the PRA as much as the next guy, but I want to know my 50$ is going for something more than a magazine I really don't care if I recieve or not.

As you know I am chapter president of PRA chapter 13... I can tell you that the PRA has not made any form of contact in quite a long time with our chapter and has not offered any kind of finacial assistance to our chapter that I am aware of in quite a long time or possibly never.

I do not know what the money ( dues ) is being used for other than the magazine and website. I do not mind sending in $50 per year in dues, so as long as I see VALUE in this $50.

This means either I am directly benifitting from the $50 - such as a kickass magazine I can't wait for it's arrival in my mailbox - which due to the internet and the easier and faster way to get info I do not care if I get a magazine, or discounted rates on camping and fees at PRA national or regional events, or a hat or flight bag like AOPA, or something.... anything I can touch and feel and see the Value in that $50.

Or let me see value in the $50 by showing me how the board of directors and officers have voted on and decided to use that money in a positive way - or many different ways - to further promote the sport. Personally the magazine I do not think promotes the sport, no more than our chapter 13 newsletter promotes the sport in our local area.

I told 2 or 3 board members at Bensen Days that I am not sure if I will renew at $50. I would gladly renew at $20 and forgo the magazine, just to put $20 into the PRA bank account to do whatever with. We will see.... $50 isn't much money but It is enough to buy about 42 Mcdonalds double cheeseburgers - tax included and I eat alot of those so

[barnstorm2]

Dean,

Personally, I don't have a problem at all sending in $50 to the PRA.

I think the magazine articles are quite a good read and I look forward to receiving the magazine.

Keep in mind the magazine was working under a reduced budget and I think still is.

I strongly agree that the price should be $49.95 as that DOES indeed have a lessor psy value.

I know the PRA does what you listed and more. I think most people that have had some involvement with the PRA understand the value of having the voice the PRA gives us.


Ron,

More value and perceived value is indeed important.

And what did happen to the back issues being available to members on the internet? That would be very cool.

I would be willing to host the back issue mag content for the PRA on the GyroWiki if they need space and members only access.

I get a sticker, but discounts, a cheap renewal spiff, or camping fees would be even better if it could be worked out. If a way could be found to make the promotion at least pay for itself.

The communication with the chapters struck a cord with me. That is something I think we really need and would be great leverage.

It's true that the magazine is not a tool for getting new members. But Chapters are. Your newsletter example is perfect.

I remember that when Chapter 34 would try to contact the other chapters to get a vote on the Ken Brock award they give at Mentone each year it was a real pain and some chapters did not even respond.

Any ideas from your perspective as chapter pres as to how to mount a communications network between the PRA and the chapters?


.
.

[Rick Whittridge]

Ron, Thank you for showing your dark side again! I am not amused with your taking on the way the PRA is being run. You like to see yourself on the cover of the PRA mag with some sort of image as someone that is involved with the PRA as a LEGEND or ICON but in reality to me you are all about yourself! You are not my HERO! We have plenty of heros in the PRA that have spent life long efforts to keep this sport alive that have spent more than your EGO to insure that there will be a place to fly & be safe. Get over yourself or move on! The EAA dues are 40.00.
PRA is 50.00. I am a member of both & could care less if it was 100.00 ea. Our rights to fly are at risk in this country every day with the FEDS watching & changing things we are lucky to just be able to fly!

[Dean_Dolph]

Yup, Tim, you are right! As I've gotten older I've come to realize that 99.99+% of all problems are ones of communication; either the lack of or just poor presentation that isn't understood.

I don't need to be told that chapters don't respond to inquiries; I live with that every day! And I don't know what to do about it. There is no leverage and I haven't come up with an incentive. People only do things when they have a reason to do them. You would think that pride in their chapter, and the fact that with out them the PRA doesn't survive, would be incentive enough but apparently not.

I do get newsletters from some of those that put them out but I would forgo that if they would just create an article for the magazine. While the magazine doesn't promote the PRA, it should be considered an organization maintenance and sustenance item.

I think the answer to the question about what happened to the magazine archives on the Internet lies with the PRA web site development. As I understand it, this was/is a feature of the 'members only' section that is part of the overall plan. But just as the magazine is still under financial constraint, so is web site development.

Tim, your offer, while very considerate, isn't really the answer. I personally believe the PRA 'stuff' should remain with PRA organs such as the magazine and the web site. GyroWiki and this Forum are not official PRA sites and I believe that is good since the PRA doesn't have to be responsible for what gets posted in either place.

Like Ron, I had an opportunity to talk to a PRA board member or two at Bensen Days. And as usual, I had a list of items that I would like the board to consider. Unfortunately I never got the list in before the board meeting.

There was one item on the list that I would like feed back on.

I'm suggesting that in order to help with communication and to assure the chapters that they are a big part of the PRA, that each board member serves as an assigned chapters rep on the board. In other words each chapter would have a rep on the board that they could communicate with to express their concerns or suggestions.

As chapter coordinator I would like to be kept in the loop but I don't need to be in the middle of the chapter to board communication.

It is time that the board members understand that this isn't an honorary position but an elected one where the electorate expect year around work on their behalf. They may all understand that but the membership doesn't get any communication from the board so how do we know what work they are doing or plan to do? What are the PRA projects, who is responsible, who has the action items and what are the projected timelines? I don't think it is unreasonable for the membership to expect answers to these questions.

[GyroRon]

Rick it must have been past your bedtime when you posted cause I am not sure what you posted makes sence.

Do I like seeing myself on the cover of the Magazine........ Sure, don't you?

Do I think that now that someone chose a picture of me to put on the cover that I am now obligated to send in dues no matter how I feel about it? I think not.

The more I think about the PRA and how it is run the more I don't like it. The board meetings are private and what is discussed is not made public to the members. There is no meeting minutes posted on the website or in the magazine.

And to be totally frank, I was pissed off when I made some suggestions to a few board members before the meeting and then when I asked after the meeting, was any of my suggestions discussed I was told they couldn't talk about it .......... Yet I find out later that they allowed a non board member to sit in and be a part of their meeting.

All I am saying is I want to see my $50 go to more than to fund a Magazine. I am not saying the magazine is crappy, or anything negative about it, just that I get all the same info in it faster and easier through the internet, so to get a magazine with the same stuff in it is redundant.

I have a EAA membership and see tons of value in that $40. They truely do lobby for experimental aviation.... they have discounted services.... good EAA programs.... and as a EAA chapter president I can tell you that they do a TON of stuff in the way of chapter support.

I understand EAA has huge membership numbers and tons of money to work with, the PRA doesn't. I don't expect the PRA to equal the EAA.... But I would like to see the money go to something more than what it is being spent on now.

Alot of you guys are just using the same ole reasoning for blindly sending in dues.... such as Deans post #19. That is fine, and I want to send in money too for the same reasons.... This is why I have no problem sending in 20$ and getting nothing tangible for it. Just the satisfaction that I contributed to the cause and to be able to still call myself a member.

But to send in $50, it is kinda of steep when you have almost no communication from the board, and what little communication there is the things promised don't materialize, board meetings are secret and held behind closed doors, and as a member I have the burden of " The PRA is you " yet I can not attend meetings to suggest this or that or offer official help to see things happen.

And I am still steamed that last year at Mentone, instead of discussing business and getting things done, the board spent valuable minutes discussing how I was flying and riding my scooter at the convention, and could they kick me out of the convention cause I was falsely accused of cutting someone off in the pattern. How this was allowed at all is beyond me, and the fact that after the meeting I was considered Guilty till proven innocent extremely upset me... And I am supposed to send in my dues and just be happy doing it. Sure

[animal]

The EAA dues are 40.00.
PRA is 50.00. I am a member of both & could care less if it was 100.00 ea.
See but there lays the point PRA is more then EAA,and EAA offers it's memebers so much more for the Money. I am glad you have an extra $100.00 to spend on Club member ships. but alot of us like my self just can not afford it.
I have some old back issues of the PRA magizine. and yeah it was intresting to read, but not $50.00 intresting. fact is unless a lot changes I probably won't get to make many Gyro Fly-in's and these High gas prices are not helping it any.

I am glad alot of you have $100.00 to spare. I don't.

$50.00 or even $49.99 is just to much.

If it was around $35.00 I might would concerder it.

[barnstorm2]

See but there lays the point PRA is more then EAA,and EAA offers it's memebers so much more for the Money. .

Tim,

What EXACTLY do you get out of your EAA membership other then a magazine?


I am sorry to come off brash but in a way you are freeloading on those of us that do support the PRA.

Even if you are not a member the PRA is still defending our (your) rights to fly, representing us (you) to the FAA, providing a rally point and well known respected voice with a deep history to the FAA and the outside world.

Just like the EAA does for fixed wings and warbirds. **

Why not only join the EAA? Because frankly gyros could go away and they would not give a ___. Over the years the EAA has primarily become less concerned with the budget home-builder and mainly responds only to high priced advertisers and owners of multi-$100,000K machines and warbird owners.

The PRA is the only org with OUR (and your) interests at heart as a gyro home-builder and pilot.

If there are no current issues threatening gyro pilots should you stop supporting the PRA? NO! We will never again be able to create an organization that has the clout, recognition and relationships that the PRA has and once you know about a threat it is FAR too late to start organising a community if you don't already have one.

If you can't buck up $49.95 to support our sport and the only significant org dedicated to it then perhaps you need to re-evaluate if you can afford to fly.

Again, I don't mean to make a brash response to you my friend but those are my 2 cents and how I see this issue.

I am all up for finding ways to increase the value of membership and increasing the number of members however, magazine or no the PRA is well worth supporting for both what it has done, does and will do for us (even though most people are not aware of the hard work people put into it as RickW alluded to in his post).
.


**notice I did not list gyros, trikes, and ultralights

[animal]

Tim,

What EXACTLY do you get out of your EAA membership other then a magazine?


I am sorry to come off brash but in a way you are freeloading on those of us that do support the PRA.

Even if you are not a member the PRA is still defending our (your) rights to fly, representing us (you) to the FAA, providing a rally point and well known respected voice with a deep history to the FAA and the outside world.

Just like the EAA does for fixed wings and warbirds. **

Why not only join the EAA? Because frankly gyros could go away and they would not give a ___. Over the years the EAA has primarily become less concerned with the budget home-builder and mainly responds only to high priced advertisers and owners of multi-$100,000K machines and warbird owners.

The PRA is the only org with OUR (and your) interests at heart as a gyro home-builder and pilot.

If there are no current issues threatening gyro pilots should you stop supporting the PRA? NO! We will never again be able to create an organization that has the clout, recognition and relationships that the PRA has and once you know about a threat it is FAR too late to start organising a community if you don't already have one.

If you can't buck up $49.95 to support our sport and the only significant org dedicated to it then perhaps you need to re-evaluate if you can afford to fly.

Again, I don't mean to make a brash response to you my friend but those are my 2 cents and how I see this issue.

I am all up for finding ways to increase the value of membership and increasing the number of members however, magazine or no the PRA is well worth supporting for both what it has done, does and will do for us (even though most people are not aware of the hard work people put into it as RickW alluded to in his post).
.


**notice I did not list gyros, trikes, and ultralights First OFF! I am not a member of EAA , I have a friend that is, and from what I see you get alot more for the $40.00

Second off, it is attacks just like this that drive me more away from joining PRA! Local or other wise.

Look I hate to say it ,but just your responce right there is more reason for me not to join. I like to join a group that I have fun with. to be honest.I have not had much fun when I was in the local PRA.

Just your responce of maybe I can't afford to fly. well thats fine. I am not rich, I just want to enjoy my gyro.and people that makes remarks like you just did,I can already tell is not going to welcome me and is just going to be another person to look down on me.

maybe to someone that has the kind of money you have $50.00 is not much.
but to some of us that have to scrape for every penny we have.then we have to weigh just what does this $50.00 get me.

and as for freeloading as you put it. fact is PRA is doing a piss poor job of getting the word out to the general public about gyros.

This Forum is not PRA owned and it gets the word out better then the PRA does.
also I have to agree with Ron, I don't like the Idea of supporting a club where the memebership has NO say so on whats goes on.

I have Read enough here on the Forum in the past of things like the airport issue, and other things where the membership has no say so, and it also rubbs me the wrong what that I read they allow a CFI to train in and RAF-2000 with out a Horz. stab at an airport that is supposed to promote safety.

to me that goes against the whole safety issue.

It comes off as looking to an out sider. as hey we want safe gyros,but as long as we are makeing money off ya we don't care what you fly here.

thanks again for reminding me the true reason I should not waste my money to be a national memeber of PRA.

as you pointed out I am not good enough to be a member and Maybe I should not persue gyro flight. sorry but I think once my Gyro is done I can aford the 3 to 4 Gal. per hours to fly it. I may not fly it every day or even every month. but it will be mine to fly when I want to fly it.

I may or may not rejoin the local chapter,and it has always rubbed me the wrong way that there is not a true North carolina chapter. Chapter 13 is more SC and ga.

But you know what.I plan to keep doing what I have been. and that is doing just fine with out being a memeber of the national PRA.

thanks again for confirming that the little guy with shallow pockets is not welcome in your club.
I am now going to go mow a lawn so I can make some money to buy parts for my gyro with.

at one point I was thinking of Joining PRA national when I got my gyro flying. but you have made it clear I should save my money.

have a great day. you sure pissed mine off.

[barnstorm2]

Well, Tim I am sorry you feel that way.

It's pretty hard to see any point in what you have said other then you don't feel you can afford $40/50 bucks.

You stated twice that the EAA offers more but even when asked have not stated what it is that the EAA gives you with the membership that is so compelling?

Apparently it must not be that compelling as you are not even a member of the EAA.

Please note I did not say that if you can't afford a PRA membership that you can't afford to fly gyros but that you might re-evaluate if you can afford to fly.

Being a responsible aircraft owner, operator and pilot is NOT inexpensive. I have given up a number of pastimes to be able to fly.

If it is all you can do to put a few gallons in the tank than I doubt anyone is going to fault you for not being a PRA member until you are back on your financial feet. However, some might fault you for complaining about PRA policies and actions when you yourself have not volunteered your time nor are even a member.

This forum is not tax funded. Many people here have donated to assist Todd and Mike in carrying on the burden of this resource. It might seem free but I assure you it is not. And just like the PRA there are many people that benfit from this resource that do not contribute to it. That does not change the fact that this great forum would not exist were it not for the donations and work by a few for the many.

Apparently you are quite easily rubbed the wrong way by clubs and organisations and that is a shame because it seems you would have a lot of experience to offer.

None of this changes the fact that the PRA has long been fighting for your right to fly, (most recently through the efforts of Greg Gremminger, Ron Menzie and others working with the FAA to secure Sport Pilot abilities) whether you realize it, appreciate it or not. Many might also not realize that keeping the sport safe and legal is promoting the sport.

.

[BUD ONEAL]

The membership elects the board members to run the PRA. The board members cannot and should not be expected to approach the general membership for approval for any thing that they were elected to do. we as general members of the pra should not have a say on running the pra. That is why we elect the members. Can you imagine 1400 differant ideas as how to spend a dollar? If the show is not ran to suit then run for office and try it your way,Won't work, been ther done that and have the tee shirt to prove it.
Bud

[StanFoster]

Animal: Hey...I love reading about your Falcon project. You mentioned that 50 bucks is too much...but you would consider it at 35 bucks. How about if I went half with you...by calling Jennifer and splitting it 25 bucks each if you promise to submit an article on your Falcon project?

I get so much more from the PRA than I give back...and its the least I could offer. I think a nice article from one of OUR newest PRA members showing his dream coming true would be a good catalyst for the magazine.

You would be an asset. Take me up on it...ok?


To Ron, Dean and others wanting the BOD more open. All I can say is that I am working on that very topic.

I was elected by you all to represent US as this is OUR PRA!


Stan

[Brian]

I as one individual can not fight to keep my right to fly a gyro, if the pra were to go away I fear that the the ability to fly legaly would also. So I send in my dues so the many volunteers that are working to help keep my rights can continue to do so. Thank you to all those volunteers.

[Resasi]

Moved to say purely as an outside observer that over the last 40 years having held a US licence and having worked with the FAA during that time, it seems to me that their attitude and spirit of co-operation and friendly encouragement with the smaller side of general aviation has altered.

It now appears far more concerned with regulation and policing than the more friendly times of years ago. With possibly less time to deal with the very small segment of general aviation the gyros represent. This might be due to my mistaken impression, the much larger numbers of light aircraft, more congested airspace, increased complexity in aircraft, or a combination of all of the above.

In my very unimportant opinion therefor, it is only a body such as the PRA that will have any chance at all of representing the incredibly small numbers of private gyro pilots who would simply like to putter around minding their own business, and worthy of support for only that one reason without doing anything else for the subscription fee at all.