Hello from a new member

[Brian Jackson]

Greetings all.

I've been lurking this forum for a couple of weeks and decided to join. It's great to see the level of support being given to the GyroBee design. Having been a past member of the PRA (attended the Bensen days fly-in at Brookville, Ohio in early 90's), I've never lost my enthusiasm or desire to build a gyro of my own... "someday."

Well "someday" has arrived on schedule, and based on the safety and design criteria I've decided to invest my energies pursuing Mr. Taggart's GyroBee design. Though I haven't begun fabricating parts yet, I'm in the process of learning all I can about it, which includes a 3D Solid CAD model to familiarize myself with its construction.

I read somewhere else on this forum that a gentleman (engineering student) had a 3D model in SolidWorks. I'd be anxious to speak with him about Axle & Cyclic Control dimensions.

Being that this is my first post here, I just wanted to take this opportunity to formally introduce myself. I figure that way I can plead ignorance or "dain bramage" in case I ask a ridiculous question. :D

I began a new business back in 1999 doing 3D Aerial Spherical Photography. That's a fancy way of saying I hang out of helicopters with a camera. You can check out some of our work here (http://www.rotopix.com). We've done quite a bit of this type of imaging, mostly for Economic Development departments of local & state governments.

Part of what makes the GyroBee (or a gyro in general) financially practical is that it can be used in part of our business as a photography platform. Thus it becomes a business expense for tax purposes. The fact that a GyroBee, plus the intense flight training that must accompany it, can be done for little more than twice the cost we spend just on helicopter time to shoot 3D's for an average city, makes it attractive but conjures some interesting questions...

Granted, part 103 ultralight regs don't allow us within a certain radius of ATC airports, etc. But what is the boundary between "cities" and "rural areas?" Much of what we produce is over rural areas to be developed. Does our legal flight area stop at city limits? And does altitude affect these legally flyable areas? If anyone here has experience with these FAA rules I'd greatly appreciate any feedback.

Didn't anticipate being so long-winded, but thanks for reading.

Respectfully,
Brian Jackson

[Chuck Irby]

Welcome aboard, Brian. It's good to have you with us. Incidentally, to be a member, in good standing, it is a requirement that one suffers some sort of "dain bramage".

[Curran3]

Brian,
Welcome! You will enjoy building and flying the Bee. You might want to do a little checking if commercial usage is your goal. The FAA has some strong feelings about using ultralights and/or experimentals for commercial use. They can ruin your whole day if you run afoul of them. Build it for the sheer joy of flying about as cheaply as there is.
Curran in Jacksonville, FL

[Brian Jackson]

Thanks for the replies.
Actually, "commercial usage" is not my goal... it looks good on paper. My love for gyros both precedes and exceeds any commercial application. It wasn't until recently that I even considered merging the two. I love flying for flight's sake. It just seemed a logical progression to take my camera along. Is the FAA and/or the IRS really that interested in how my photos were produced? As long as I obey the flight rules?

[Friendly]

Well, neat web site, don't let Stan see it. He is already into curved stairways , he will start posting those curved pictures that move and I will never get off the computer! oophs...welcome to the forum ...forgot my manners...

[PW_Plack]

Brian,

Welcome to the forum! Remember, a GyroBee can also be built as an experimental, allowing you to add some reliability enhancements. There are gyroplane pilots who've published photograps snapped from their experimentals, but the restrictions on ultralights, not the least of which is the 5 gallon fuel limit, could make them impractical for this.

I sense that you're a very capable person. Not because of your awesome website or professional-looking avatar, but because you claim a skill we all wish we had...

When you can, share the details on how you made "someday" arrive on schedule!

[Brian Jackson]

Thanks Friendly and PW Plack,

I understand the fuel limitations of UL's versus Experimentals. Fortunately we operate within a small radius for any given project. And to be quite honest there's something nice about leaving the flying to someone better during the photography. Lord knows there's enough stuff to think about while airborne. My wife would agree.

I sense that you're a very capable person. Not because of your awesome website or professional-looking avatar, but because you claim a skill we all wish we had...

PW Plack: I'm not sure what skill you're referring to. If you meant the photography thing, thank you. We've worked long and hard develoing the techniques. But we'd be nowhere without the amazing piloting skills of Brian Riley. I'm just some photographer with a dream to fly.

You also asked about my "someday." Everybody's got one. Here's mine...

Last month I discovered my wife was NOT pregnant, my dog DIDN'T have rabies, my job at the office WASN'T being outsourced to India, and I DIDN'T have Irratable Bowel Syndrome. Life is great, right?

Wrong. One can live their entire life over the safety net yet still die miserable without having ventured anywhere beyond their safety circle. There's something about reaching middle-age... For me, I refuse to put off my ambitions anymore. I'm either gonna do it or I'm not. Simple as that.

By the way, my "Avatar" is Bob Ross. I watch him every Saturday morning on PBS. He puts me in a well-needed coma.

[ToddP]

Brian,

Welcome to the forum. It sounds like things in your life have lined up, so its time to build and fly. The forum is a fantastic resource. If it weren't for a forum very similar to this one (and no longer online), I probably wouldn't be flying gyros today. That is the reason I built this. We've got a great group of people here that are more than happy to answer all your questions.

My standard answer for people when they ask about some of hobbies etc.

"I don't want to be 75 years old talking about all the things I wish I'd done"

[Chuck Irby]

"I don't want to be 75 years old talking about all the things I wish I'd done"
Great line, Todd!

[CLS447]

Welcome Brian & go for it! Is that really your picture? I think that was a PRA convention not Bensen Days.

Right on Todd!




Don't want to hijack thread, maybe we should start one on this...... Can I do arial photos for a side business & write off the cost of my new gyro? Or how can I use my gyro as a writeoff?

[Brent_Brown]

I was going to say something about Bob Ross putting me to sleep. Now add a little Brown right here.

[Mike Hook]

Brian,

Welcome , you will find all the answers you need here including the meaning of life. LOL Just forward those request to Ron. Seriousily thou I just was listening to the Tim Mcgraw song ( Live Like you were Dyin. ) There is a lot to that and I think that most of the folks in here kinda lean that way in life.
Good luck on you endevor

Mike

[KenSandyEggo]

Brian, here's someone you may want to contact as far as taking commercial photos from an experimental. Chuck Feil has published several photo books taken from his gyro. I believe there is something about the gyro being incidental to the photo shooting or something like that. He'd be the man to talk to. I don't know if the below info is current or not, but it's a start in contacting him.

Chuck Feil
7 Lincoln Avenue
Scarborough, Maine 04074
Phone 207-885-9778
Fax 207-885-9146
Email Chuck Feil cfeil@maine.rr.com

P.S. Loved your site. The photos are awesome.

[PW_Plack]

Brian, the skill I'm talking about IS making "someday arrive on schedule!

[sauer38h]

"Is the FAA and/or the IRS really that interested in how my photos were produced? As long as I obey the flight rules?"

Dumb as it sounds, they are. In coastal Massachusetts (my area) a fellow who routinely used an ultralite (fixed wing) to scout out shoals of fish for the local commercial fishing fleet eventually got his butt barbecued by the FAA. If you're using anything related to your UL as a business expense for tax purposes, you've just sent a red flag to you-know-who. I'd advise you to stick to all the laws - not just the ones which seem sensible. Also, don't forget insurance issues for an experimental used in a business. The insurance situation is worse than the uninitiated can imagine. Not to say it can't be done, but it takes fortitude.

wfw

[Brian Jackson]

Thanks everyone for the sound advice. Think I'll build a gyro just because I love flying and keep the business separate.

Hey, one other thing... I'm planning to order the raw materials for the GyroBee from StarBee Gyros shortly, and was doing some research in various types of metal finishing. Some of the brackets I'd like to powder coat with a coal-black wrinkle texture, but the mast, keel, boom and axle struts I'd like to use what's called a "bright dip" finish. It's a type of tinted electro-chemical finish that produces a specular (mirror-like) surface that will look like polished/buffed copper or brass, depending on the dye. Has anyone ever used this type of anodizing on their gyros? And would there be any metalurgical properties (strength/stress) issues with using it for gyros? Thanks.

Respectfully,
Brian Jackson

[landman]

My Barnett is showing up as a business expense for my real estate business. Two years now. How about the business of giving flying lessons in an ultralite. If I own one and rent it out to you to fly around in for practice, assume it is a single place and I am on the ground with a radio. Is there a problem?

Martin

[Doug Riley]

Martin, yes, there's a problem. If you're an AFI/BFI/CFI authorized to give instruction in homebuilt/ultralight gyros under the PRA or ASC exemptions, you can allow your student to solo your 2-place TRAINER and accept money for it.

The exemptions don't allow renting out single-place machines for teaching or any other purpose.

[nsheryka]

I read somewhere else on this forum that a gentleman (engineering student) had a 3D model in SolidWorks. I'd be anxious to speak with him about Axle & Cyclic Control dimensions.



LOL
I do believe that may be the first time i have ever been called a "gentleman" in my life!!! thanks!!!! (i just turned 21 this past week, spent it in vegas too!!!)

I am building the gyrobee in Solid Works, right now i have the frame, rotor head, and landing gear done and assembled in virtual reality. I was going to post some pictures of this, however i have been having trouble with the photo export feature of my bootleg copy. I will eventually both finish the complete model and post pictures.

I have not started on the cyclic yet, as i cant seem to find a good set of plans, except for the pump handle cyclic on the lonstar gyro website. Anyone know of a good cyclic blue print? if i cant find one.. i just damn well may design my own.



Hey, one other thing... I'm planning to order the raw materials for the GyroBee from StarBee Gyros shortly, and was doing some research in various types of metal finishing. Some of the brackets I'd like to powder coat with a coal-black wrinkle texture, but the mast, keel, boom and axle struts I'd like to use what's called a "bright dip" finish. It's a type of tinted electro-chemical finish that produces a specular (mirror-like) surface that will look like polished/buffed copper or brass, depending on the dye. Has anyone ever used this type of anodizing on their gyros? And would there be any metalurgical properties (strength/stress) issues with using it for gyros? Thanks.



I am a member of my school's (university of Rhode Island) Mini Baja team, which is a team that engineers and fabricates a small, off road, amphibious car that runs off a brigs and Stratton 10 hp engine to compete against other schools. Is has a frame work built out of one inch chrome moly tubing that we "bright dipped" to completely coat in chrome (if i can find some pictures i will post them later). The metallurgical effects of the material after this process were negligible, as was the additional weight (it puts on a layer of material approx 2 or 3 thousands of an inch thick). If you can do this, it would look nice!!!!

[Brian Jackson]

Thanks Nick. My concern is primarily focused in the mast area with regards to stress and fatigue. If the bright-dip process (chemical) alters the hardness or tensile strength of the aluminum in any way, even slightly, I will abandon the idea. It's simply not worth the risk. If indeed it only "adds a layer" of material, then I'll pursue the finish. What might be OK for an ATV could be deadly on a gyro without exhaustive investigation and metalurgical data.

Hopefully I'll be building the "Copper-Copter"! Sure would be pretty... the numbers will decide.

[nsheryka]

I dont think it really effects the hardness of the material to any measurable degree, what it will do is change the dimensions of the piece. This would be fine on the landing gear (not a precisely machined component) however it may adversely affect the mast / keel / cluster components if you were planning on doing this, depending on how accurately you machine them.

Although it shouldn’t effect the strength of the overall design, it may however make your bolts not line up as well as they did before.. or lead to premature failure due to vibration (I would NOT do this to the rotor head).

I would however, not be willing to risk your life for you on my knowledge alone.. so if you are planning on it I would defiantly research it.

[Brian Jackson]

Here (http://www.pioneermetal.com/bdanodize.html) is a brief description of the Bright-Dip process. I am contacting their engineers to get some preliminary data regarding the tensile effects of this particular type of anodizing. I'll post what I learn.

Brian