Helicycle Hatchery

[laflyboy]

Hi Stan, I will try to post the process of putting my turbine back on. This will be my second time to install it, so it should be a pretty easy task. I had to pull the turbine off once before when the front main gear seal came out. We had to take the gear case apart in order to change the seal. We then machined an aluminum retaining ring that we installed over the seal to prevent it from happening again. If you see oil temps above 170-180, you will need to contact Blake about how to fix it. To my knowledge, their have only been a few engines with the temp problems, but it is a fairly easy fix. If you ever want to talk about it, you can call me.:peace:

[Arnie Madsen]

Hi Stan, I will try to post the process of putting my turbine back on. This will be my second time to install it, so it should be a pretty easy task. I had to pull the turbine off once before when the front main gear seal came out. We had to take the gear case apart in order to change the seal. We then machined an aluminum retaining ring that we installed over the seal to prevent it from happening again. If you see oil temps above 170-180, you will need to contact Blake about how to fix it. To my knowledge, their have only been a few engines with the temp problems, but it is a fairly easy fix. If you ever want to talk about it, you can call me.:peace:

Many of us here on the forum really appreciate your information and knowledge David. Thank you.

Arnie

[akoschier]

flyboy-

would you mind telling some more what happened to Mr. Tom's engine - when did it happen, what broke, what needed fixing- anything else others might learn from?
avk

[StanFoster]

avk- I asked Blake about this Thursday. I was curious myself as this is rare. He said he had been having some oil pressure issues, and a seal leaked, and basically ran it without oil pressure for 12 minutes. Stan

[animal]

HI Stan. I was just wondering were you have your Pitot tube and Static port is located?

I just ordered a L shaped pitot tube and cessna static port for the Commuter H-1B from aircraft spruce..

I will be mounting mine thru the floor board just under the nose. but not decided where I will mount the static port.

[akoschier]

OK Stan.
Still surprising since Tom Sled ran this engine for well over 100 hours with no mis-hap.
As for the front oil seal which has been coming out at least one other time (which Doug blames on oil build-up in the gearbox) my fix if necessary will be an external pressure relieve at the oilfilter, returning excess oil to the tank. I'll set this relief a few PSI below oil supply pressure which will result in a lower oil pressure but still plenty high compared to specs. min.
Don't think though this will be necessary since my oil pressure was only around 40 PSI when I ran the engine on my stand and I think remembering that those who had temp problems had oil pressures much higher.
My seal has an external retainer held by two -10 screws tapped into the gearbox - so whatever happens it will not come out- plus I have a low oil pressure warning (idiot light) should I loose oil any other way.
avk

[StanFoster]

avk- I was just thinking today of installing a red light in the dash next to my oil temp/pressure gauge. Are you able to tie into the wiring going to the oil pressure gauge to do this?

Could you post sometime your oil seal retaining mod. When I get my turbine..I may as well put some kind of retainer while its out of the ship.

Blake said it was kind of a long story with the oil issues. I dont know what all is involved.

I will probably hook up the extra long aluminum tubing for cooling the gearbox oil. I remember reading that the oil temps shouldnt get above 190 as the metal around the seals will expand too much.


Stan

[StanFoster]

Tim- My pitot tube is out in front just under my chin window. The static port is located where B.J. said to put it...in the belly.


If you spend a couple of hours of scrolling back.....you can find the pictures of both. :D



Stan

[Redbaron]

Looking good stan, I worked on the bee a good part of the day so my arm is pretty tired! :D

[laflyboy]

Hi Stan, Blake is in the process of installing something like what avk is talking about. He is installing a pressure relief/bypass valve just down stream of the oil filter that will bypass the excess oil above 35-40 psi to the oil tank. He ran my engine on Thursday and said it worked perfectly. In trying to fix my previous oil temp problem, Blake installed a small spacer in the relief valve on the planetary gear in order to keep in from dumping oil into the main gear case. By doing this, it increased my oil preasure to around 80-90 psi. Blake said that he felt it would be much better to regulate the pressure externaly rather than taking the spacer out. From what I have been told, there should never be more than a few ounces of oil in the bottom of the gear case at any one time. If you end up with more, you will get the high oil temps.

David:peace:

[StanFoster]

David- Is this procedure going to be done to all the turbines...such as mine that Blake is working on now? I am on a fast learning curve here. I cant wait till I have the turbine in my shop where I can look it over!


Stan

[laflyboy]

To my knowledge, this is only being done to mine. This seems to be a rare issue with these engines, as far as I know there have only been a few with the high oil pressure and temp problem. I would not worry about it until you get your engine installed and running. If it happens, it won't be hard to fix with an external pressure regulator. As far as the front seal, Blake said that he was looking at a fix for that, but not sure if it will be for this engine run or not.

David :hail:

[akoschier]

Stan,

Based on Tom Sled's experience the oil pressure sender should not mount directly to the transmission as you see in BJ's video but remote to the frame, connected by a flex hose to the transmission. Toms issue were erratic oil pressure readings caused most likely by vibes. Every ship I looked at at Homers does this.
My sender is mounted under the frame in vicinity of the landing gear attachement aft of the fuel pump.
The sender T's off two separate oil pressure switches. One connects to the Hobbs to get engine running time - Hobbs only counts when there is oil pressure - i.e. the engine runs, and the other is a low pressure warning switch (automotive) which comes on around 7PSI and triggers an idiot light and audible alarm. The low reading can be confirmed by the reading of the gage. Both switches came from ADAP, around 10$ each.
7 PSI should never happen and will be an indication of something else wrong like low oil.
or whatever and still not fry the engine.
I'm currently out of the US and forgot my camera/computer cable back home.
Will get a spare and send you a picture of the seal retainer plate which keeps the seal in place. Picture is in camera.
Gary Nolan just sent me a pic of his fix which will work as well. I'ts an angled screw through one of the alternator stator attachment bosses which hits the forward seal container face and prevents the seal from backing out.
Maybe simpler than my fix.
I did talk to Blake about my thought of having an external oil pressure relive at the filter instead of choking the oil supply to the pump by squeezing the line which is what Doug does at check-out time - I was told. He felt that would not be necessary if the oil pressure is around 40 which is where mine runs. I will nevertheless plan for it. Less oil in the GB in my book is better since all lubrication in there is pressure fed anyway and more sloshing oil only causes foaming and heat build - up
avk

[StanFoster]

Akoschier and David- I appreciate your inputs here. I am taking notes on this oil pressure info. Not having the turbine in front of me makes me at a disadvantage understanding what all you are saying...but I am learning a bit at a time.

Once again this Helicycle thread is not at all about what Stan knows...but what Stan should know. This is great information and thanks again.

I now am going to have two more idiot lights next to my pressure gauges. I can just see being so wrapped up in the exhiliration of flying the helicopter that I may need a light coming on instead of a little needle moving behind a round piece of glass to get my attention!


Stan

[laflyboy]

Stan, the warning light on my list as well. Also I believe Hap Miller installed set screws thru the stator attachment bosses also. I was only able to install the retaining ring because I had the gear case apart and the front shaft was out. I regret not having taken pictures of the inside. The gears in our gear case are really very nice and very heavy duty.

David

[akoschier]

The Gears in your and my case were made by Solar and very well.
BJ built a smaller and lighter box.
avk

[akoschier]

Pic of seal retainer.
Done with engine installed.
Drilled and tapped into GB seal support through pulley drive flange holes.
Per Blake casting thickness is about 0.5 in in the location- drilled about 3/8 deep and used bottom tap.
Limited space for lockwiring which is why it looks the way it does.
Thinner wiring strand might have been more conforming.
avk

[StanFoster]

avk- Thanks....I will do something similar to my turbine before I install it. Maybe it will be a little more accomodating out of the ship.

Stan

[timdrnec]

I have a couple of pictures from what I think is Gerry Nolans ship but it's the same fix that Hap made to his Turbine. Pretty clean and simple. Originally based on something Doug Schwochert did I understand...

[StanFoster]

Tim- Thanks for your reply. Lots of good stuff to chew on here.


Stan

[laflyboy]

Stan, was talking to Blake this evening, and it looks like my engine might be ready to ship Wednesday. We also talked about the front seal issue and I asked him if they had come up with a fix, and if I understood him right, they were fixing the problem on the gear cases that they are working on right now. He said that they are tapping 4 screw hole around the outside of the seal and then will afix a washer that sits over the edge of the seal. This should work like avk's fix. You might ask about it the next time you talk to Blake.

[StanFoster]

David- Thanks for the update on Blake doing that seal modification. I was talking to him myself but forgot to ask about the seal mod. Thats one less thing I will have to do. I told Blake I am going to install some warning lights to show low oil pressure. Should get my attention sooner.........I am looking forward to tou getting your turbine installed and flying. I would start a thread about all your experiences getting your ship back into the air, and the flying affterwards. That will be interesting to follow! Stan

[laflyboy]

Hadn't thought about that, but will give it some serious thought. Like you I am also looking forward to getting my turbine and getting back in the air.

[laflyboy]

My engine was shipped today:whoo: I also found this information on a regulator for running dual alternators on one engine or even two engines. http://www.amplepower.com/products/sarv3/index.html. If anyone knows anything about these, please let me know. I am going to call the company to see what they will tell me.

[StanFoster]

David- Great news that your turbine is on the way. You installing yiur turbine would make a good thread all by itself. I am trying to keep this thread specifically on one complete build, from the first shipment, until my first flight. Then I will put this thread to rest except for residual comments. Once my Helicycle hatches out, it will be out of this Helicycle Hatchery thread, and I will start a new thread with finally flying this machine. Even though I have a lot of patience, I think I am approaching my outer edges of my patience envelope. Stan

[StanFoster]

I installed two warning lights next to where the turbine engine oil pressure/temp gauge goes...and the transmission pressure gauge. This instrument panel is so easy to lay outside and do any changes to....such as installing these two additional idiot lights. That fourth picture, if I was flying, would show my chip detectors were showing action in both the transmission and tail rotor gearbox....and that I have low oil pressure in both the turbine and transmission. Time to set this baby down on terra firma!

The color of these photos isnt right...the top left light is an amber one and is lit now showing there the chip detector in the transmission is showing activity. The right amber light is the same except this is for the chip detector in the tail rotor gearbox.

The two vertical lights are a bright red and they will come on when either the turbine oil pressure or the transmission oil pressure lowers to less than 10 pounds. I like gauges for seeing trends and actual oil pressure...but I may miss a needle moving silently behind the glass.


The last two pictures are the transmission temp sending unit. The wires coming out of the sender were small...and I wanted to protect them. I encased them inside that 1/4 clear fuel line. I heated the end of the fuel line making a nice elbow where the sender screws into the transmission. I then also put some shrink wrap around it. It is secureiely encased and zip tied along the frame to where it was attached to a ground and the sending unit wire.


Stan

Stan

[animal]

Stan I had not asked this before I don't think, does your helicopter have a twin tach for the engine and Rotor R.P.M.?

I was trying to spot your tach,but only see what looks like an automotive style tach,is that in the top right? and if so how do you know your RPM range?

I just got a set of gauge marking decals from aircraft spruce yesterday, they come with yellow green and red arches .once I have mine running I plan to mark the ranges on the tach so you will be bale to glance at the ranges. the set was only $2.95 if you don't have any already.

the warning lights look good. you use to be able to buy peizo buzzers from radio shack, I had one wired up in my Dusty 2 helicopter where it would come on when you lost oil pressure. just a thought if you want a warning alarm also they were about an inch and a half round with mounting ears.

looking forward to the day that puppy fires to life and we get to see it flying.

[StanFoster]

Tim- The top right gauge is the rotor tach. It is already marked for the rotor speed range. My picture isnt close or clear enough, but the tach has the operating range marked 605- 635 rpm.

The turbine tach will go in that rectangular hole on my lower instrument panel. The turbine speed is controlled by a governor....so I wont be needing a gauge that splits the needles.




Stan

[animal]

Tim- The top right gauge is the rotor tach. It is already marked for the rotor speed range. My picture isnt close or clear enough, but the tach has the operating range marked 605- 635 rpm.

The turbine tach will go in that rectangular hole on my lower instrument panel. The turbine speed is controlled by a governor....so I wont be needing a gauge that splits the needles.




Stan oh ok cool, I was wondering how much control ya had to do of the Turbine, so thats why I was asking. as for the Rotor tach, I could not tell how it was marked from the Photo,good to know it is factory marked. that will be part of the fun of the Commuter, my gauges just had a single red line on each tach. I want to learn the full range high and low and mark them.
now to just get it started so I can have my CFI buddy start testing it for me.

I am kind of sick today,pain meds from surgey kicked my butt, has me real dizzy. but I did pull the helicopter out for more photos and to make room to check my friends car engine when he gets here.

[StanFoster]

Tim- From what other Helicycle pilots have told me...the governor does an excellent job keeping that turbine just under 62000 rpm. I have seen several aggressive collective inputs and never heard a surge. The governor is right there putting the extra fuel in. Everyone seems to be satisfied with it. There were some RFI problems initially with some...but I believane those bugs have been worked out. When I get my turbine...I have a few questions to ask some others. I need the turbine to look at to be able to ask the right questions.

Stan

[ylf]

Come on turbine! We need to get this thread moving again!

[StackemUp]

Come on turbine! We need to get this thread moving again!

I was thinking the same thing, a little to quiet around here

[StanFoster]

Thanks for the enthusiasm for my turbine to get to me. I share that enthusiasm!

I am going to hit the ground running when it arrives. Its supposed to be here early Febuary. I will call them at the end of the month to see if its going to be early Febuary.

Meanwhile....I am doing other things like building stairways.


Stan

[67november]

I am going to hit the ground running when it arrives. Its supposed to be here early Febuary. I will call them at the end of the month to see if its going to be early Febuary.

Stan

I suspect you mean March not Feb.

[StanFoster]

67- That was my attempt at humor. I am going to call them the end of Febuary to see if its still going to be here early Febuary.

ha


Stan

[67november]

roger that

[StanFoster]

Robert- I tried finding the hood bearing pictures in this thread, but decided it was just quicker to take new ones with my cellphone.
Here are two pictures showing where I tapered the hood bearing bracket to fit the hood rather than just stack shim washers as suggested. The rotorshaft is biased one degree to the left and this bearing holder must be within 0.005 of an inch to being square to the rotorshaft. Plus, the hood bearing top plate is not perfectly level...it isnt intended to be. You can see the varying tapered thickness of the hood bracket flange where it mates to the white hood bracket plate.



I am not a machinist, but scribed this hood bearing bracket, then carefully used a Dremel tool followed by hand filing. I ended up using one very thin shim washer and was very pleased that it measured only 0.002 of an inch of being square to the rotorshaft......and a bonus of that tapering handcut fit is much more pleasing to the eye than a stack of various height shim washers on 3 of the 4 bolts. My turbine is being finished and will soon be shipped. Stan

[MichaelS.]

Hi Stan this is my 1st post here been stalking this forum for several weeks while thinking about a helicycle your thread has been inspirering thank you. I thought I would return the favor, this web site is for a college team that has built a fadec with touch screen monitor for the t62t32 turbine they list the parts and description of how. Best part of all less than 1500 dollars for all. http://ucturbocats.com

[StanFoster]

Michael- Welcome to the forum. Thanks for your interesting turbine site. Sounds like you have a good grasp on the T62. I called the factory today and my turbine is assembled and balanced. They are assembling my transmission now. I was told it would be 2 more weeks . Its getting closer. IStan

[StanFoster]

I talked to Blake at Eagle R&D yesterday. They have my turbine all balanced and assembled...and are not working on my transmission. 2 more weeks and it should be ready to ship. I am now starting to get re enthused....

I think I have been fair to them. They arent trying to ship it out on schedule...but to ship it out correctly done ...whatever time it takes. I will go with the latter.

They have purchased a vibration analysis machine that has been giving them a learning curve. It breaks down the 1 per rev vibration that the rotor has when its out of balance....but also picks up vibrations from the 16 turbine vanes that are spinning at 61500 rpm. Just one vane kicks out out a vibration of around a million per minute...or 15-16 thousand a second. Plus this vane is running across a bunch of airfoil shaped stationary vanes on the diffuser....I forget how many...but that would also create a vibration around 250,000 a second. Small noises...but this new machine separates all these different vibes. If I think about it..I will get the name of the machine and post a link to it.


So....if I get my turbine this month...I will have it ready for the factory checkout before Bensen Days.....and its even possible the checkout will be done. But that all depends on how my schedule works with Doug Scwocherts schedule.
Stan

[StanFoster]

Just a follow up to my last post. I just googled vibration analysis machine...and came up with this interesting company. If this is relatively inexpensive....I could see sending this company vibration readings taken from their handheld device...and getting a database started. It would be nice to at least have a vibration analysis done every annual.....


Stuff like abnormal bearing wear.....turbine rub....carbon buildup...or whatever would show up.

The T-62 turbine is such a work horse and has a long history of very few issues. Vibration being the major reason for the failiures that have occured. I think this would be nice cutting edge technology to use to acquire a data base history on my turbine. .......if it is reasonable.


Think this would be a good idea?

http://www.burdickbros.com/vibration.html


Stan

[Kandace]

Woo Hoo! Getting closer to logging some turbine time!

Way to go Stan!

Kandace

[animal]

Cool deal Stan, the closet I get to smelling karo burning is my portable heater..lol

looking forward to reading of your flights in this baby, you have worked hard and the end pay off is going to be years of fun for both you and us readers.

[akoschier]

Stan,

I sent my turbine back to Blake since the vibe signature was out of spec.
I had a guy from the company bring some diagnostic equipment which we used to do the check. Blake did a re-balance but I have not checked since.
If you can put your hands on some reasonable priced stuff I think its a good idea.
From what I could glance from the picture of the device it gives you a frequency scan which is what you need to pinpoint where the vibes com from (rotor,oil pump,fuel pump,speed reducer etc.
From what I have seen before, basic stuff goes for 1.5K plus.
Less would be fine.
I bought some older R&D equipment on E-bay for 500$. Its a little more cumbersome to use- you have to manually tune in filters to single out the dominant frequencies but should work as well.
avk

[MichaelS.]

Hi Stan since you are almost done with your build now could you list and or recommend tools used or needed to complete the helicycle. Such as I used this but would have been better with this. Thank you

[StanFoster]

Michael- I have to thank you for posting here. I receive all kinds of private messages, e-mails...and phone calls from lurkers that never post...but tune in to this thread. It makes me shake my head the interest and number of hits that has occured.

I will try to answer your question about what tools I would recommend....or would do differently. Please remember that I am not a machinist and do not own a lathe, cnc machine...milling machine ...etc. I however am very stubborn about wanting to do as much as I can with my hands with what tools I have.

For instance...cutting out the doubler plates for the rotors. There are 16 plates to cut out.... I had a few ways to do this. A simple jigsaw...and a disc sander will do the job nicely....or a router and a template will work. What I was surprised with were a bunch of guys all lining up to have these parts cut out with someones water jet.... Again...I loved most of the building of my Helicycle...and I dont understand wanting to farm out these simple and fun tasks. I will probably be offering to cut out these doubler plates in the future....I will just use a router and templates...they will be very accurate....and my clients wont have to mess with these. I guess it will be my gain and their loss.

Other tools that I have that I found very handy are a rotary laser. I use this to accurately layout my driveshaft alignment....laying out reference marks on the cabin....and several other uses.

Hand tools needed would be various files...rasps....good set of wrenches....allen wrenches...clamps....belt sander, finish sander, miter box, table saw.

Drills....and 1-60 drill bit set...along with some letter drill bits.

My dremel tool was very handy. Cleco pliers...and lots of clecoes in different sizes.

Soldering gun...along with lots of various sizes of shring tubing to provide "stepped" relief for the soldered connections.

Inclination gauge, levels, angle gauge,

Michael, this is just a quick reply off the top of my head. I am sure I can think of many more small tools.

But...I think the biggest tool is to have patience...and to just think everything through on the build. You will soon see you have LOTS of time between shipments...and it is a very enjoyable build. By having patience...and doing a lot of thinking....this will improve the quality of your build. I have found that posting almost every step here on this thread not only reinforces my memory of each step...it also occasionally draws some comments from wiser more experienced people. I have gained a lot of good advice...and have found myself rethinking things...and even changing things I had already done. I never want to come across like I am the supreme authority on the Helicycle...because I am just a fledgling learner. I do however consult with what I know are "supreme authorities on the Helicyle" I also am in constant contact with experienced builders and flyers of this nice helicopter...and I just want to be at their level someday.

If you have any questions..please ask away. I will try to give you some advice I have either learned by experience or from someone else.



Stan

[StanFoster]

Now that my turbine is getting close to arrival...I have been reading more about it. I have a nice maintenance and an operating manual. At first sight for someone that isnt very acquainted with a turbine..it looks like something belonging to an alien spacecraft. It is so interesting studying the complexities of basically a much simpler engine. The more I educate myself, the more I am liking this engine.

Here is a good link from an Army study course that has the basics as far as the inside of the engine...the airflow patterns...etc.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/accp/al0993/le7.htm

For the ones as interested as myself ....this is excellent reading.


Stan

[MichaelS.]

Hi Stan found you some more goodies, as I do not yet have a helicycle. I was surfing the Internet and found a place called WPS turbine : http://www.ideamillproducts.com/div_wps.html they claim to made T62 hybrid turbines that are more modern and lighter than than the -t32's. I have not contacted them but here you go more turbine stuff to taunt you. :drum:

[StanFoster]

Michael- Thanks for the link.

Some other tools that I just thought of are a good wire crimper...wire stripper.

My 12 inch disc sander with a tilting table is awful handy.

You will also need a 37 degree flaring tool for the hydraulic lines.

Bench vice with jaw protectors is used a lot.

I mentioned earlier my miter box. I have a 12 inch slider..double compound miter box..with an 80 tooth carbide blade. It cuts through the aluminum like butter. Just have smaller or thinned pieces sandwiched between some 1/4 inch luan and you will be fine.

The table saw with luan also is very handy cutting out nice staight sides in the aluminum. If you want to do a little digging in the over 1500 posts....I have every tool I ever used pictured in this thread.

Stan

[StanFoster]

I found something to do.....put some warning stickers by the tail rotor. That will stop people from walking into my tail rotor....yep...surely will!



Stan

[Passin' Thru]

I found something to do.....put some warning stickers by the tail rotor. That will stop people from walking into my tail rotor....yep...surely will!



Stan

My goodness! I surely hope so! :eek::)

[animal]

Stan,with stickers that small, you need one that says, if you can read this while running your already dead.

[StackemUp]

I found something to do.....put some warning stickers by the tail rotor. That will stop people from walking into my tail rotor....yep...surely will!
Stan

Can't say you didn't try.
And damn! even your tail boom looks sexy, your heli is a girl isn't it? :o

[Passin' Thru]

Can't say you didn't try.
And damn! even your tail boom looks sexy, your heli is a girl isn't it? :o

With curves and swooping lines like that, it's gotta be a gal! :angel:
But don't tell his wife!:lol:

[StanFoster]

Tim- Funny.....I can see someone walking up trying to read what the word says....then whapp..........right in the head! Darn, does anyone realize what a human skull can do to the dynamic balance of my tail rotor? Plus it would take a good hour to clean up the tail boom.


Stan

[animal]

Tim- Funny.....I can see someone walking up trying to read what the word says....then whapp..........right in the head! Darn, does anyone realize what a human skull can do to the dynamic balance of my tail rotor? Plus it would take a good hour to clean up the tail boom.


Stan
I know, hate it when body parts throw off my balance. and have you ever tried to clean blood splatter? I have danger in 3" letters on the tail of the Commuter H-1B ,can't say they ain't warned.

[MichaelS.]

Stan I found an awesome helicycle build site www.Juanr.com

[StanFoster]

Michael- Thanks for that Juans site......however, I have it in my favorites address section! Very nice build....and I can tell you several others.


Stan

[MichaelS.]

Please do tell the more the merrier

[Richard]

Michael,
The helicycle build site www.Juanr.com is like you said, a great site with tons of valuable information and pictures on his building progress.


Stan,
Any chance you could share the list of other Helicycle sites you mentioned yesterday?


Thanks all,
Richard

[StanFoster]

Richard- I meant I knew of several other fiinely built Helicycles ,but I am not aware of any sites as fine as Juan's. I was talking to Stu Fields about renewing my subscription to the Experimental Helo magazine. Stu is also building a Helicycle. He mentioned that he does the dye penetrant tests on the turbine components for the Helicycle, and he had performed mine. He said he has done 85 turbines and has only found 2 that showed minor cracks. Stu is the utmost perfectionist and it further shows to me that thee Helicycle has the best people at the critical areas. Just as with Doug Schwochert doing my factory checkout and flying my Helicycle for the first flights. I could not be more pleased with his professionalism and having him getting me started on proper rigging and flying the Helicycle. Stan

[StanFoster]

I was just sitting and staring at my Helicycle trying to invent something to do to it....and thought...hey, I need to grind some detents into my plexiglass winter door. There are four latches that have to be retracted to open door. They are spring loaded and remained latched...unless you hold them open while opening the door. You kind of half to slightly spring the door to keep them open.

I decided to just take my Dremel tool and grind out an L-shaped detent to hold the 1/4 inch latch pins as they are held open. The latch pins rotate and all I do now is pull them out of engagement...rotate them into their detent, and it makes it simple. I also will have less chance of an engaged pin scratching my door frame now.

I am going back to staring at my Helicycle to see if I can come up with something else to do on it.


Stan

[Chuck Roberg]

Tisk tisk tisk, For turbine where art thou..............

[Kandace]

Tisk tisk tisk, For turbine where art thou..............

I KNOW! This is crazy. I'm getting the DT's for Stan!

Kandace

[choppergabor]

Stan just wanted to thank you for the Purple polish tip. Great stuff. I went ahead and ordered the first step deoxidizer from the same company selling these now together with the purple polish as step 1 and step 2. Love the stuff :) Thanks.

[StanFoster]

Chuck- I definately will be at the Ultralight safety seminar this Saturday. My turbine as of last Friday is still 2 weeks away from being shipped....."hopefully"

I just read a good article about Eagle R&D in my last Expermental/Helo magazine. There are 5 guys working for them, they do all 40 of the shipments in batches. Right now they are balancing the turbines and assembling the gearboxes. Stu Fields actually did the dye penetrant test on my turbine and compressor wheels and other turbine components. I am not about to climb on them now ....especially when they are balancing my turbine wheel! It wouldnt do any good anyway. I knew this was a strung out deal when I signed the contract....thats why I cant gripe too much. I figure once I get the turbine.....then its not far off before I will have it ready to burn kerosene.

I would be watching the curling matches at the Olympics anyway instead of working on my turbine this week , if I did have it. ha


I have decided to put a building blitz on when my turbine arrives. I want it ready for the checkout before I come down to Bensen Days. I have lots of time to achieve that goal.........if I get that turbine soon.

Stan

[StanFoster]

Latest news on my turbine. I have been been asked at least 50 times the last month.....

As of today....its 3 weeks away. I must be in a time warp. I have totally changed my goal for having it ready for the for the factory checkout by Bensen Days. I just now will be ecstatic if I only "receive" the turbine shipment one day before leaving for Bensen Days. Its how I have to deal with it. I was on the phone today an Blake thanked me for being so patient and not yelling. I just said I wasnt going to yell at him while he is finishing all the finesse details that they do out there. If there is one part I dont want rushed...thats the turbine/transmission assembly they are doing now.

Absense makes the heart grow fonder......they say. Oh well........


Stan

[animal]

Don't feel bad Stan,at least you don't have a Helicopter that is complete except timeing and then praying that it runs, sitting in your shop. of course I still can't fly it yet.

[Arnie Madsen]

One day your turbine will arrive Stan , and just think , unlike building stairs , you will not have to wait for glue to dry during the installation.

I agree with your letting the factory do it right and according to their own schedule. I have never met a good craftsman who purposely delays a customers order. Any delays usually have your best interests in mind throughout.

You still have amazing patience and just to make you feel better I actually watched some curling during the Olympics. There , I admitted it ! My favorite was the Norway team with the bright multi colored pants. Never has curling been so exciting .. :)

The USA - Canada Hockey was top notch. The US team was one of the best out of them all and I actually cheered when they got that goal in the last 20 seconds. I am glad Canada won in overtime but to me the US was certainly worthy of gold.

When your turbine arrives in 3 weeks or so , we will be getting out our stop watches to check your installation speed. We know you have been practicing for it between curling games. Until then your loyal fans wait patiently as well.

[mitt11]

Put the stop watch away, quality is the factor not speed. I'd rather see you make it next year than not at all.

[choppergabor]

LOL Stan you got Arnie too watching curling!!! Well we all have our weaknesses....
:) It is going to be hard to leave for Bensen days knowing you have the T62 on the shelf waiting to be installed.... But again, you are a balanced man you can handle this :)

[StanFoster]

Gabor- As much as I want to get my Helicycle finished, having it delivered even as late as the day before Bensen Days will not even make me consider staying home and working on installing that turbine. I will be pleased as punch knowing it is in my possession and awaiting my hands to get on it. Blake has a tremendous job of seeing that all 40 of these turbines and transmissions are built meticulously. EVERYTHING so far has been absolutely georgous, the rotorhead deserves to be put in a glass case, they did such a nice job machining it. I have been 2-3 weeks away from receiving my turbine since mid November. I am patiently awaiting when I am told it is only one week away. Stan

[mitt11]

Looking forward to see you fly your new heli Stan. A turbine is a meticulous piece of equipment. I do work on rebuilding steam & gas turbines, and the new gas turbines now have special coating on the blades to prevent them from burning up. We can,t touch them with are bare hands as the oils and slight acid our bodies secrete will create a burn spot on the blade. Which can cause an imbalance and eventually vibrating apart, this can happen very quickly at the rpm they turn. The units we work on are huge and a 1/4" nut drop inside one of these will destroy the unit. They install vibration sencers to shut them down automatically to minimize damage. I've seen the results, not pretty.

[StanFoster]

Mitt- Sounds like you are really into hi-tech turbines. I would love to have your experience working on them. I will say I am glad my Solar T-62 turbine is not critical with how you touch the turbine wheel, which I will be! It is a very forgiving workhorse type engine and hot starts are not near as likely with it as turbines in other helicopters. The day that truck delivers my turbine will be a holiday. Stan

[Resasi]

Stan from the time you intrigued us all by beginning on your new mystery project it's been a bit like watching a fine whiskey maturing in the barrel. And we all know that when it's time has finally come it will be all the more appreciated in the tasting.

I think a long slow build like this constrained by the delivery of parts has to have allowed a deeper examination of all the components, how they have gone together, and for much higher standards of finish to be obtained, than might have otherwise have been the case.

I would bet that you have been able to think deeply about the assembly and to tweak, improve and fine tune it all. In fact Stan, the whole machine will be worthy of being put in a glass showcase by the time it is completed.

[StanFoster]

Leigh- Thanks for your comment. You hit the nail on the head about a constrained delivery of parts causing a more detailed examination of the components. If you recall...or dig back in this thread, I have mentioned several times that although I would prefer the 4 shipments to say be over a year period instead of 2 years, having them all dropped off at once instead, would have been too overwhelming for me. I cant stand seeing stuff sitting in a corner without getting my hands on it. That would be too much too soon.

This has been a very laid back build...and I NEEDED a lot of time just to think about how I wanted to do certain things. This extra time I know has allowed me the time to do extra things that I probably would not have done if all the parts and the turbine were sitting in a pile at my feet.

I feel there is very little I would have done differently on this ship, and can think of several things I would have done over had I not thought it out. One example is my panel layout. Every Helicycle is different, we all have our pet necessities. My priority #1 in my last 3 gyros and this helicopter was to have a centrally located GPS in my panel. This is even more important to me in this helicopter as I wont be as hands free as flying my gyro was. There are several other examples of stuff I just plain and simple needed to think out.

Other things I needed time to work out were how to run my wiring neatly and correctly.


Waiting for something like this turbine does indeed add a lot of value to it when I finally do receive it. I had to go through a very long wait just to get scheduled for my helicopter checkride. I soon realized the longer I waited, the more value that license would have to me when I did get it. I cant explain what a nice feeling having that rating feels ...EVERY time I think about it. I have no doubt I will be extra fond of my turbine when I do have it also.

Stan

[Resasi]

It really is a great pleasure watching quality dreams unfold in an orderly fashion, and, very good of you to have us all along.

[StanFoster]

Leigh- Thanks.
I missed your last post fro several days ago.
. I can't put a price on the nice comments from people such as yourself and many others throughout this thread. I enjoy watching other build threads, and I appreciate the tenacity many have shown sticking with me on my build. I would have thought the interest would have seriously dwindled down . Many here have a lot of patience putting up with most of my time NOT working on my chopper, due to waiting on parts. I assure you that when the turbine arrives, there will be no more waiting, but just sleeves rolled up and the final assault to complete this chopper and start feeding my Turbinator some JetA. Stan

[Timchick]

Can't wait to see that tubine on.

[earthbnd misfit]

What is it with curling that allows cheating by rubbing the ice with brooms. Thats like going for a put and making a groove in the green to help it.:rolleyes:

[Resasi]

That's not cheating, just another skill set adding another dimension. Team work and having a good ice rubber.:)

Besides grooving greens screws up the green. Rubbing ice not a problem, refreezes smooth quickly, good as new in a jiffy.

[StanFoster]

I have to look at the positive side of things...I would not know near as much about curling had my turbine arrived. I think that sport will "sweep" across America someday.

Stan

[StanFoster]

I posted this earlier....but decided to go ahead with a DeWalt powerplant. I am anxious to get into the air.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9VLlrlopoo



Stan

[animal]

Stan, you worry me..lol

[StanFoster]

Tim- I am starting to worry about me too!

Stan

[j bird]

Stan, you must be going stair crazy!

[Vance]

I felt I should remind you that according to post 1592 it should be one more week for the turbine delivery Stan.

We are all on the edge of our keyboards in anticipation of the flurry of activity when the turbine gets to your shop.

I think I can hear the tires on the gravel driveway now, maybe the turbine is early.

Thank you, Vance

[Resasi]

Guess we are all a bit on the chair's edge with anticipation.

Maybe some Monkey Bread will divert the attention.:)

[StanFoster]

Vance- Thanks for reminding me....I forgot what I was waiting for. ha.

You are correct....two weeks ago...the new estimated time to be shipped was 3 weeks....which is one week from now. All I know for certain is that each day that passes, I am one day closer.


I am burying myself in other activities. There is so much to do in this world if you are interested in a lot of stuff. Someday I will be back to work on my chopper.

I have been flying through your posts thanks to you and Ed. I am in debt to you two, and cant wait to start returning pictures of me going nowheres when I start hovering.

Stan

[StanFoster]

I called about my turbine today. I received the news that it was still 2 weeks away. I had a serious but cordial discussion after hearing that expected news. I try to dwell on the positive, and I indeed extracted 3 gold nuggets from todays conversation.

1. Some of the delay has been due to a redesign of the turbine engine mount. The previous :elicycles have a small issue with keeping the drive pulleys parallel as the belts stretch and wear. This new and meticulously cnc designed new mount offers an easy and infinite adjustment to keep these pulleys parallel for a longer range of adjustment. This was a major reason a big smile cracked across my face hearing that. My production run #5 is the only ones to receive this nice upgrade. It will be offered as an upgrade to other Helicycle owners. This alone t makes my long wait much more palatable.

2. They also modified a front seal securement fix to eliminate it from coming out. There has just been a couple that popped out and it is attributed to higher than spec transmission temperatures. Now none will ever come out.

3. My rotorblades are being machined today and will be shipped the end of this week. That was my next and last concern having to wait for these after my turbine is installed. They will now be here next week and I can do my tip weight installationan, and some root end work, plus polish my blades. They received my last turbine temp gauge that they were waiting on, and my remaining instruments will be shipped also. So, I am really getting enthused as I soon will have my rotorblades and my turbine delays are going to be worth the wait with the new upgrades that I will receive. Great news! Stan

[choppergabor]

I'd love to have someone to take a video of your face when the packages finally show up! After all it was worth the wait. Patience is a .....bitch or was it virtue? :) Happy for you big guy!

[Kandace]

Whoo Hoo! More Helicycle Build Thread!

Kandace

[jcarleto]

Kandace,

No..this is the "Waiting for the Turbine" thread. We know that the turbine will arrive in just two weeks...we just don't know WHICH two weeks. I'm willing to make a prediction:

The turbine will arrive..............


............


............


...........


in two weeks </duck> </run> </hide>


Sorry , Stan :D

[HobbyCAD]

Some of the delay has been due to a redesign of the turbine engine mount.

Stan, I just got back from South Africa, had to attend to some business. While there, I went to see some HeliCycle guys. I enquired about that last crash, where the guy had engine trouble, that ended up in a hard landing. Doug Schwockert advised it was some rotor setup, but was going to post factual results, once available. He never did, but in SA, I was informed it was an engine mounting failure.

Now you know why they are most probably delaying batch #5, and why that batch is the 1st to get the modified engine mount. It's a quick response to a potential failure. Good on them to react so fast. One cannot always expect them to be up front, owning up the latest delay is due to solving a flaw, no-one wants to admit their product had a problem. I think you will see some AD coming out for the other machines.

[StanFoster]

HobbyCad- Thanks for your post. This may very well be the case. I look at it as them taking care of business...and providing this improved modification...for whatever reason. Its not always good business telling everything you know about your product. They are taking care of it...and it makes the waiting worth it.

But....just getting those rotorblades done this week removes that uncertainty that I wasnt looking forward to enduring ....till after my turbine arrives. Now I will have my blades and all the work done on them....and have that part ready for the checkout.

I am getting there.......


jcarleto- your post is in jest....no need to be sorry. I am actually sorry I have strung everyone here along on my turbine wait. Had I known it was going to be till April,...I would have stopped bringing it up. But, when I am told two weeks....I get all lathered up, until lately. Right now I am excited about the rotor blades and my instruments coming soon....and I wont get excited about my turbine until I hear that it has left the plant...and I can track it. Then I will get my turbine install videos out and start studying.

Stan


Stan

[jcarleto]

Stan,

Yes, that post was in jest. I am, none the less, quite sorry you are having to deal with the timeless delay. Many of us have, at some time in our personal or business lives, experienced the absolute frustration of waiting for something important and very dear to us without the benefit of control or even reasonable or predictable expectations. It is mind bending, and even the distress it causes is something on which you cannot get a firm grip.

So...yeah...I made a joke. Little else can be done until the beast arrives and the waiting is over. It is something to help pass the time. We're all pulling for you and your machine and its ultimate completion. Meanwhile, we (I'm pretty sure I speak for nearly everyone) are all pleased to hear the progress reports and help share in the frustration as the dates stretch. It isn't new to most of us, and we all wish the waiting was over for you. Don't be sorry at all for "stringing us along." That's silly.

<another joke>...besides, we're all glad it isn't us waiting</end joke>

Hang in there! Good news is only a matter of time.

[StanFoster]

Jcarleto- I am so glad its only 2 weeks away.... Now I am joking....ha. I have to walk on eggshells here....ol Blake might be reading this...and my turbine could go to the back of the line.

I do try to turn my waiting time into something productive...like building stairways so I can afford this thing. I need those l-o-n-g breaks so I can get back to work. It is very hard to come in early and "just" work on my chopper for "only" an hour. I remember one time I came to the shop at 5:30 a.m.. and "promised" myself to quit on it no later than 7 a.m. I dont wear a wristwatch and got carried away and went into the stairshop to see if it was 7 a.m. yet. I was surprised it was 10:30 a.m.! I said to heck with it....I may as well kill all morning on the heli.

Stan

[gyro]

Stan, you and George Clooney have somthing in common. It's going to take you both two weeks to get what you need.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4r4U-y5WJs

[StanFoster]

I have been looking for a collective grip .....forever....and figured someday the right one would jump into my hand. I was at the Harley shop getting a new battery for my bike...and just happened to be looking at yet another pile of handle bar grips. I noticed one looked like it would fit my 1.125 inch collective. The guy let me take it and go try it....and it fit snug as a bug. I bought it and put some adhesive on it..and slid it on. The chrome bottom end mates up perfectly with the aluminum knurled knob....

I was able to check that item off my list..


Stan

[CLS447]

Nice choice ,Stan ! I actually have an extra set of those.....spongy, right ?

[Master Roda]

Stan,

That's funny, I looked at the pics first and thought: "Harley Grips". They look great!!

[utahgyrocop]

Very classy Stan...now all you need is a turbine!
Stay safe

[Arnie Madsen]

Cool. I think the early Hillers used actual Harley grips with the name molded into the rubber.

Looks good Stan.

[StanFoster]

I like the fact also that the handgrip was made in the USA. Eagle R&D try to supply all the parts made in the USA. I want to put a sticker on my Helicycle, Made in the USA, and be very proud that it is. Stan

[choppergabor]

One more thing done :) What happens when you pull on that stick? :)

[StanFoster]

Gabor- Let me try to explain. That lever is what is called a collective. When you pull on it..... I know you wont comprehend this...but the collective..."collectively" adds the same amount of pitch to the rotor blades via control linkages...and heres a new foreign word for you Gabor....a swashplate.

Gabor....we can sit down with a pad and pencil and Bensen Days and I will try to explain in simple turns other controls....like cyclic...pedals.....etc.

We can get in your 269 and I will go over the stuff that I thought you knew.

ha...




Stan

[choppergabor]

Oh that would be great Stan! I am so grateful for everything I can learn. WHat do you serve the Squash plate with? Is it like a side dish thingy? :) LOL (we are almost there my friend few more weeks :))

[StanFoster]

We can also invite Jay along and discusss politics too. On second thought....never mind. See you at Bensen Days.....and I will show you what a squash plate is at Solomans Castle.


Stan

[StanFoster]

Gabor- This is a class just for you....ok? You asked what happens when you pull on the collective. I added two pictures showing what happens. When you pull on the collective....it goes up. The pictures document this very clearly. More lessons as needed.


Stan

[choppergabor]

Wow that's so cool. So te other stick in the middle is the gear shift right?

[Master Roda]

Oh man....You guys crack me up.

[choppergabor]

Stan you really got me on that one. That ain't a so called "collective"! You prankster! That is your parking brake silly. I can see your gas pedal and the brake pedal too. The gearshift. I do like manual trannys too myself. How many gears? DO you have overdrive on that baby? Soooo now I am puzzled cause I can't see the clutch pedal. Is it half automatic? Come on man let us in on that thingy. We all wanna know. I bet it's partially automatic..... Does it come with and emergency blinker too?

[StanFoster]

Gabor- It has one gear....all belt drive...called a slip-o-matic transmission. You pull up on the parking brake....and push forward on the gearshift.....it will keep accelerating till the belts start slipping, usually around 110 mph. If you want to go faster....you simply tighten the belts past B.J.'s specks...and it will go even faster. It definately has overdrive....what you have to do is drop that parking brake....go down hill.....and then pull back on the gearshift .....and the tranny will go into overdrive....you can watch your tach redline then. Then you just apply the parking brake until the rpm's are back into the normal drive range. Gesshh Gabor.....we will have to have a talk at Bensen Days.


Stan

[choppergabor]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh OK it makes sense now! Darn thing got me confused for a sec. Yeah I have a feeling you wanted to talk to me...... Just don't be too hard on me. I don't know a whole lot about these things that's why I am asking ya know. It's for everyone's benefit though..... LOL Larry :) He did didn't he?

[StanFoster]

Gabor- I edited my last post....and answered your question about how many gears it has. Please read....and go study some helicopter books. You will never become a helicopter pilot if you dont. Build you a nice book rack next to your toilet..go buy a "Helicopter flying for Dummies" book.and go eat something that doesnt taste fresh. Then you may know something.... ....ha.

Stan

[choppergabor]

ROFL you bad a$$ LOL. Love yah man...............

[StanFoster]

I posted a picture showing my transport wheels. These are fine on concrete...but takes a team of mules to move this helicopter across my rock driveway or sod. I need some serious "off roading wheels" so I can pull this beast out to fly. The wheels I have now are only 8 inches in diameter and are very skinny. I am putting on some 13 inch wheels and fatter tires. The extra diameter and width should make it roll out easy.

I am making a set of transport wheels with a lever that will lock it down and raise the skids 2-3 inches off the ground. I did the math on the leverage...and each wheel will have around 300 pounds to lift. I am figuring around a 3.5 inch length fulcrum centerline of weight to centerline of pivot. Then I will have about 20 inches of handle to leverage on. Setting up a ratio of 3.5/20 = X/300 shows I should have to use 52.5 pounds of force to lever the skids off the ground.

This is just in my head right now...I bought some my tires and wheels, pipe, and some grade 8 5/8 inch bolts to assemble my off roading wheels.

I will post pictures when I make these in a day or two.

[akoschier]

Stan,

You might consider a duplex pair of wheels - like what some guys had a Homers.
Much easier to move ship on grass.
Check your photos.
avk

[StanFoster]

AVK- Thanks. I saw the doulies last year. I will see how easy this rolls out over my rocks. I am planning on pouring a round helipad this year just so I won't even have to roll my heli in any mud and mess up my hanger floor. My tires are much larger diameter than the dual wheel ones I saw, so that should help. But, I can easily make a douly out of mine later if I need to. These transport wheels will only be used at my place as I will not trailer my ship anywhere. If I can't fly there, I aint haulin it! I was planning on flying to Homers this year, but I have to have my 40 hours flown off by then, and be comfortable making such a long flight in a new strange ship. Mentone I am flying as its only 121 miles. Stan

[Arnie Madsen]

I have always found that a hard tire (lots of air pressure) rolls a lot easier than a low pressure soft tire.

[StanFoster]

Arnie- Good point. The transport tires for the R22 I was flying always looked half flat...they didnt want to put anymore air in them. I would have had them blown tight.

When I found these tires yesterday, there were some other choices of the run flat type that didnt need air. But they were spongy feeling and I pushed on one on the floor real hard. I definately went with the ones that could be pumped hard as a rock.

I am getting out to the stairshop early Monday morning...and after I get some stairstringers mortised for Tuesdays work....I am going to fabricate my transport wheels...and try them out. I will post pictures later tomorrow.

I feel I have a real simple design that several may just decide to make their own.

Stan

[Arnie Madsen]

A lot of small tire assemblies call for 15 psi max pressure thus the high rolling resistance. Whether helicopter dolly wheels , wheel barrows, cutting torch dollies , I always go to about 30 psi. I always wear a face shield or goggles in case it blows while inflating but have never had it happen yet. Don't try this at home but if you put 50-60 psi in your car tires you can push it with one hand on level ground.. At 30 psi you need both hands, both legs and a couple of neighbors.

The next most important thing is to align the wheels as straight as possible. Toe in or out is more drag than soft tires. Many heli dollies are designed to be easy to attach & remove which also subjects them to mis-alignment.

Steel wheels have very little rolling resistance (railroad).


I do not think for a moment you will use steel wheels Stan , but if you ever decide to build a wooden helicopter I attached the plans below: .... :)

A little birdy told me you have been turbine vacuuming your house and we need to get you back out to the shop building something.... :)

I have been itching to post these for a long time........

[StanFoster]

Arnie- What's the scoop on the wooden 47? That is neat! You have it right on the toe in or out. My Air Command was terribly hard to push on concrete. It wasn't until I noticed severe tire wear that I placed some long straight edges along the wheel rims and discovered they had a 3 degree toe in. I adjusted a landing gear brace and got them parallel. I could push it with a finger easily. My Helicycle has 4130 pipes welded to receive my tranport wheels. I am going to sight through these tubes across the left and right side they are attached to. I figure if I can sight the hole through them, and these look in line, my tranport wheels should be parallel if I jig them up squarely and weld them. I am going to use my drill press and drill a5/8 hole through both sides of a heavy 1.5 inch pipe. I will then insert grade 8. 5/8 inch bolts in these holes and weld them. These stub axles should be square doing it this way. I can adjust ant toe in or out simply heating and bending slightly, but I really think I won't have to do that. I can't wait to make these tomorrow afternoon. Stan

[Arnie Madsen]

SHANNON GOFF is the artist. A couple of additional pictures here:
http://susannehilberrygallery.com/smrpk2/goff/helicopter.htm

Your wheel mount plan sounds good Stan.

I think it was you who had mentioned you could get different static thrust test results on your gyro depending on tire pressure. Back at that time my mind wandered off wondering how much gyro takeoff distance is affected by things like tire pressure & alignment. It would be an interesting topic for someone to tackle some day.

Anyway , look forward to seeing your new wheels in a few days.

[StanFoster]

Arnie- I lied....I was going to come out to the shop extra early and get my staiirwork done...but instead manufactured , painted....and then tested my transport wheels. They always say a job well planned is already half done....and I finished these by 9 a.m. this morning.

The ground outside is fresh from an inch and a half rain, and its also the spongiest it will be the whole year. I rolled the helicopter out on the rocks with ease...and it also pushed nicely in the squishy sod. I of course am missing the rotorblades and the engine....but it was impossible for me to do that with the other tires without 24 gallons of fuel on board also.

I posted some pictures...so anyone wanting to follow along on the math process...here goes.

The first picture shows the centerline of the pivot axle is 2.75 inches off the floor. The 2nd pictures shows my wheel has a radius of 6.75 inches from the axle centerline. The offset distance between the wheel axle and the pivot axle when added to the 2.75 inches has to be more than 6.75 inches...or the pivot axle wont slip into the pivot tubes which are welded on the frame. I wanted around 1/4 inch ground clearance...so I used an offset of 4.25 inches...which should have the tire 1/4 inch off the floor when inserting the pivot axle into the pivot tube. Any more ground clearance just increases my offset of 4.25 inches which directly transfers to a larger force needed to lift the helicopter.

With this 4.25 inches offset, this leaves me with a 19 inch leverage arm. Each of these transport wheels will be lifting around 300 pounds...so setting up a ratio of 4.25/19 = X/300 ......cross multiplying shows that the 300 pounds acting on a lever of 4.25 inches equals 1275. You then divide 1275 by the leverage arm of 19 inches...and it comes up showing that I will have to use 67.1 pounds of force to lift the helicopter when the two axles are level...but less than that as I am starting to lift it. That sounded reasonable to me...so I went ahead and made them....painted them, and again was pleased to see they lifted with ease.

I installed some eyebolts with rings that easily hook over the rear of my skids...securing the leverage arm. I can adjust the height easily by turning the nut on the eyebolt. I have more ground clearance now...and I was very satisfied with this project. It is now 9:30 a.m and I have to get some stairwork preparations done for tomorrows out of town work.


Stan

[bking]

Stan,While you are still waiting for the engine Build your self a heliporter or landing pad. then all ya' gotta do is hook the lawn tractor(tug) to it and pull it out.

[StanFoster]

Here are a few more shots of the transport wheels.


bking- This pushes real easy..and doesnt need a lawn tractor to pull it out. Besides....I would have to make a third wheel for it.

I will pour a pad when I have the time. Stan

[ylf]

Looks good Stan, nice and simple! Also, if you find it takes a bit too much down-force on the tail you could swap them side to side and with the lever toward the front the axles will be pretty close to the balance point, you'd just need to switch from a ring to a hook.

Mike

[StanFoster]

Mike- Thanks.

I believe if I turned them around forward....ithe axle would be in front of the CG....then it would be rocking back on the tail stinger. But, if its slightly behind the CG, it would be worth trying. I will know more after the rotorblades and engine are installed. I love the rings that hook on the skids, but of course could go to J- hooks.


Stan

[bking]

Stan, I wasn't talking about a belly porter something like this. http://helicopterlandingpads.com/ I think most of the commercial ones are like 8'x8' 3" channel iron a deck wood or steel 4 to 6 wheels a hitch to pull it. Or if you got to have the coolest pad in town put up a pinicle on the hanger.

[Resasi]

Awesome Stan. Just awesome.

[StanFoster]

Bking- I see what you mean on the tug. It really does push nice and I will have a heli-pad poured in the near future. I am thinking of a 10 - 12 foot diameter circle to set down on just off the corner of my hanger. I figure its better to have it off diagonally from the corner than square off a wall . This will minimize any recirculation effects from the outflow hitting the building and recirculating. The pad will be about 30 feet away, so I shouldn't have any problem. I could see if I were square to the side of a building my rotors injesting more debris. Stan

[Arnie Madsen]

I sure like the ring hooks. Pretty clever and I like the adjustable option too. All I ever got to use was an over-center affair that you removed the pipe handle to do each side and then you either carried the handle , or set it in the cockpit , or left it on the shop floor ,or forgot where you left it , and always worried it was still sitting on the cargo net after takeoff.

:).... if a grown man was allowed to get excited over a set of dolly wheels ..... then I just did .... :)

[StanFoster]

Arnie- These wheels wont be flying with me...too heavy...I will have my smaller ones safety pinned into place whenever I fly to an airport where I will want to roll it around.


Stan

[StanFoster]

My rotorblades are on their way from Idaho......yippee!! I will have something to gnaw on when they arrive early next week.


Stan

[CLS447]

That's great news ! I forgot they had your blades.

What were they doing with them ?

[StanFoster]

Chris- They had to machine down my aluminum block that is bolted and bonded to the 16 doublers I had to cutout..and bond to these rotorblades. I did that work last August , and made it priority#1 in my shop. I had to get these blades back to Idaho so that I was in the next machining group that they run. They wait till about 8 sets of blades are in...then they machine them all. I shipped them Sept. 1st of last year....so you see why I did not want to miss the next machining run. It is entirely possible to have my turbine installed and then wait 6 months for the blades. Its all in how the timing plays out.

I was ecstatic to find out my rotorblades will now be ahead of my turbine. That leaves just one major hurdle left to receive.

Here are some pictures. The first is the rotorhead with the blade grip. The others show the bonded doubler plates that I finished in my shop last August. It was a very intense period of time to get those all done , and try to do the best that I know how. These doublers are very crutial to the making the blades last 2000 hours.

The last picture was taken Sept 1st as the Conway truck was leaving with my blades. Next week the same guy will be returning with them.

Stan

[choppergabor]

OH man! Stan those look beautiful! Wow. They last 2000 hours? Wow. Unbelievable. So next week you are going to get them back huh? Hopefully no upgrading on the blades ..... Not like the turbine deal ya know ....... :) I am very excited to see them returning back to you :)

[CLS447]

I remember you doing such a great job on them. I can't wait to see the pics of what they did to them. Thanks Stan.

Stan, does Dewalt make an18v nail gun that really drives 16d nails ? I thought that I had seen one & now can't find it .

[StanFoster]

Chris- I have that gun. I love it! Thank-you DeWalt! Stan

[StanFoster]

Gabor- Thanks for the compliment. I loved doing those doublers and bonding them. I can't wait to put a mirror finish on them in the next few weeks. I have put my heart and soul into this chopper. The blades are designed for 2000 hoursm. Mark Whistler has
700 hours on his ship with no problems.
Stan

[Resasi]

Just thinking about that neighbor of yours Stan. With this baby it wouldn't be a question of flying past his pickup it would be hovering over his pickup.

But I seem to remember you saying he was past all that now so maybe not.

That machine would qualify to be put in a gallery as a work of art, just love the curves on those blade doublers. They sort of remind me, in a way, of the curves on the leading edge of a Concords wing. Smooth flowing complex curves.

[StanFoster]

Leigh- Thanks. Those smooth sinuous curves of those doublers were made from a pattern . I used double sided tape and cut them all in a group, ground and filed them together. There should be neglible weight difference between them. As far as that farmer, he and his friend on the side are still into extraciricular co-ed wrestling. In a helicopter, I would now be able to be at a distance that would not cause undo hazard to person or property. So I could now hover fairly close to them while they are in the middle of one of their wrestling matches. I however am going to leave that sleeping dog lay. I forgave him in my mind, taking Vances advice of not letting him take up real estate in my head. All is well and I have very little resentment towards him for the damage he did to my property. The tough part was knowing it was him, but not being able to prove it, and thus not being able to take care of business in a legal way. He fell and hurt himself last year, had to see a speach therapist, and I can honestly say I felt sorry for him. That's when I knew I had forgiven him. Stan

[StanFoster]

Gabor- You must have not been on the forum back when I did the doubler bonding. If you go back to page 72. plus or minus.. in this thread....you can see what was involved. I reposted some clamping pictures here. I have a lot of clamps for stairwork. My name is Stan, and I am a clamp abuser! There, I feel better getting that off my chest.

Stan

[StanFoster]

Blake from Eagle R&D called me today giving me the tracking number for my blades that are enroute from Idaho. He then mentioned the turbines are getting close...the transmissions are all done. I reasked an old question....Will my turbine be started before its shipped? Blake mentioned that they dont normally test any....but they have new balancing equipment and they are going to spot check several.

I had to jump on this one. I mentioned that I would love if my turbine was one of the spot checks. Blake said he would. He is going to make sure it is very smooth. That was good news to my ears. I would like knowing that it was pre-checked before the factory checkout. He said that have almost no problems...but they decided to do several spot checks.

I am getting anxious...and if I can just have that turbine sitting in my shop before Bensen Days....that will be fine with me.


Stan

[StanFoster]

I received my governor today along with some gauges and msc. stuff. I have a little to chew on now......

Stan

[StanFoster]

I had some parts shipped yesterday and I gnawed on some of them this morning. First order of business was installing the black and red button switches. The red engages the turbine starter, then the black one turns on the start fuel solenoid and pumps fuel into the fuel nozzle. This also turns on the exciter which causes basically a spark plug to have a fast intermittent spark that ignites this start fuel. These are held on to a certain rpm and then......whoomphhhhhhhhhh....the 6 main nozzles are turned on and out comes smoke and fire....and then that sweet ever increasing pitch of the whine of the turbine as it spools up.


Moving over to the left side of the cyclic...you can see I now have a switch next to the fuel valve. This is a DPDT switch that when pulled up....will turn on the power to the electric motor driven screw that starts tightening the drive belts to the main rotor. o When pushed down...it reverse polarity to the electric motor and disengages the clutch. There will be two red buttons installed next to this switch....one red one is run through a resistor and basically slowly engages the rotor clutch belts as they have to mate with the output of the transmission . After a little bit....then the other red switch will be pushed and this gives full current to the electric motor as it then engages the clutch. There is a 300 pound overcenter mechanism that positively locks the clutch into gear....and a micro switch is tripped turning on a green engagement light in my dash.

There will be a black button that will disengage the clutch when shutting down....and likewise , another micro switch will indicate when the screw drive is at the bottom of its travel.....and this will kick on a red disengagement light in my dash.


The last pictures are my turbine oil temp/pressure gauge being installed and wired in.....plus the exhaust gas temperature gauge.

I have all my holes filled now.....even the "future" transponder hole now has a black plate covering it and I will for now stick a little clock on there.

Next project this morning is my governor box to install. The governor is the brain box to keeping this turbine operating in its correct parameters.

Stay tuned, more to come.


Stan

[StanFoster]

The last half of my mission this morning was to install the governor box...and then locate and mount the nutplates for the governor box cover.

Nut plates are fun to put on, but can be annoying until you know how to do them correctly.

I drilled my governor box lid with a drill bit that just goes through one of the nut plates....in this case it was an 1/8 inch bit. I layed out the backplate that the nutplates were to be riveted to....and drilled these 1/8 holes. I just then used an 1/8 bit to align the nutplate and then drilled for the small rivets. After all these holes were drilled...I then went and over drilled the hole that the screw would be coming through into the nutplate. I also drilled out the coverplate holes for the right size for the screws. It all lined up nicely.

Next was drilling the mounting holes for the governor to bolt to the backplate to. I made sure it was clear of the inside of the governor box...then marked and drilled the holes.

Next it was off to my elaborate paint booth, which is a piece of 3/4 plywood....and some rattle cans. I have had real good luck with Krylon paint....and its easy to touch up.

I am off to babysit my little grandaughter , so you all have a very blessed Easter.


Stan

[alectejas]

Stan, how much headroom does your helicycle compared to an R22? I know I fit in the R22, but that helicycle looks kind of tight.

[scottessex]

Stan too bad you didn't have a nut plate drill jig, but it looks like you were able to overcome the obstacle. :D
Looks great, Nice article in the new mag too.

[choppergabor]

Same to you Stan. BTW that is not babysitting it's called allowance :)

[alectejas]

OR anyone else's thoughts ( of course) I have read 36 inches for the helicycle but I'd like to know how that compares to the R22.

[StanFoster]

Alectajas- The R22 definately has moor headroom. I am 6 ft. 2. and there is plenty of headroom for me when I am in the Helicycle. It can handle a 6 ft. 6 pilot. Stan

[StanFoster]

Scott- I should have bought one of those nutplate jigs back years ago. But, I have done so many of them the way I mentioned, its kind of fun. I know its probably kind of crude, but it works! Thanks about the magazine article. I am going to go into much more detail in the next article, but I need that turbine to write about. There is a lot of interesting stuff with that turbine, at least to me it is, and I am really learning a lot about it. I have a lot left to learn also. I can only imagine what lifting off into a hover is going to feel like. I remember oh so well what it felt like to go fly my SparrowHawk the first time after building on it for 5 months and 503 hours. This Helicycle is going into 2 years and 2 months and will be around 600 hours. I have never looked forward as much as I have towards flying this machine. Stan

[Friendly]

Stan,
I like post that not only tells someone what they did, but also shows them how they did it. Thanks for all the pictures and construction comments

[PR_Arecibo_DC]

Stan, the project is looking awesome... Cant wait to see you flying it...

Jose

[HobbyCAD]

Stan, I'm not part of the HeliCycle owners club, but I would sure like to know if other owners are not desiring a more automated start cycle. You mention the black and red switches you have to individually switch, I presume the turbine start cycle is all manual. This manual cycling seems to be very much outdated. My T62-32's were a lot different, they had fuel pressure switches that gave a fully automated start. You having to hold in a starter, then switch on the start injector and exciter at the correct moment, add main injectors at the correct moment, remove the start fuel and exciter at the correct moment, while monitoring TOT, to get it started, it's so simple to have it done automatically. My -32 had additional fuel pressure switches that all you had to do, is hold in the start button. This simply kicked in the starter motor solenoid. The engine spooled up, and fuel pressure in the fuel rail rises. At the correct RPM, the correct start fuel pressure made the start fuel pressure sensor switch on, it switched on the exciter, then the start fuel injector solenoid. With start fuel and spark present, this lit up the engine, spooling it up more. At the higher RPM, the higher pressure fuel pressure sensor switched on, it made the main injector run solenoid kick in, more fuel injected, thus spooling up more. At that point, it kicked out the starter motor solenoid, and removed the start fuel solenoid. You could now let go of the start button. If the TOT ran too hot, i.e. a wet start, it disconnected the run fuel solenoid. Only if all went well, the engine kept running. Why is this not being implemented to the HeliCycle engine. An automated start should keep the turbine temps in check, with a manual start, you can get it to run away during a start cycle. It's the temp spikes at start that cracks up the turbine.

Just my 2-cents worth of wondering ...

[Resasi]

You have certainly had quite a time to build up that hunger to get it into the air Stan. It will be all the sweeter for it though.

Happy Easter to you and yours.

[StanFoster]

Hobbycad- Many of the automatic sequences you mentioned are part of the start up that the Helicycle uses. There is an air line that sends ever increasing pressure from the compressor section to a fuel control valve that controls the amount of fuel going to the 6 nozzles.
This is done automatically, and not manually like you suggested. This is a very easy sequence to learn the manual part of it. My observations would have me wanting to keep it the way it is setup, by controlling the easy stuff manually, while the harder and more critical stages are automatically controlled.
The manual part you mention is not near as complicated as you described. I however am speaking from observations and my own questioning. I have been told that a hot start has to happen on purpose. Someday soon I will be able to tell you from personal experience how easy it is to start. My only experience is observing dozens of starts and it looked to me to be very easy to accomplish. Maybe someone with actual Helicycle experience can chime in here and agree with me or add some cautionary tidbits of information to enlighten some ignorance I may have on this topic. I have learned a lot here in this thread, and will no doubt learn a lot more! Stan

[brett s]

As used in CH-47D's it's fairly automated - 3 position switch, off/run/start with it being spring loaded from run to start. Flip to "run" for 3-5 seconds, then hold at "start" for 2 seconds & let go - that's it. There's an indicator on the master caution panel for "apu on"

Older Chinook versions had the same 3 position switch but required you to hold the switch at "start" until it reached a certain rpm, ignition & start fuel was controlled manually. No monitoring of temps even there though, there was only an rpm gauge.

[StanFoster]

Brett- Your description of how simple it is to start mirrors what I have observed. In a few months I will be able to answer from experience. I have directly asked how easy it is to have a hot start that and I have been told its tough turbine and its hard to hurt it if you keep the simple starting ritual consistent. Stan

[StanFoster]

Jose and Leigh- My computer was intermittent and was skipping around. I just read your posts. Thanks. It felt good doing something again on the Helicycle. My rotorblades are do to arrive anyday as they left Idaho Thursday. I have tip weights to install...some root end work,,,,and then I will be polishing them. I have a little more wiring to do as they are shipping more switches. I would guess my turbine will arrive right after this work is done. So,,,,I am not anticipating too much delays from now on.


Stan

[StanFoster]

I received my rotorblades today...and this is a major milestone having those back. The fit of the blade grips to the rotorblades is perfect. You have to use anti-sieze on all the surfaces. I slipped them on and it was a close fit.


The last picture is the governor box installed with the governor inside.

Next up I have some work to do on these rotorblades and more components are being shipped.

My turbine arrival status has now changed from "in about two weeks" ..to 'soon' !

I have enough to chew on....but my stairwork is priority for a few days.

Stan

[Vance]

She is a great looking helicopter.

You are doing a great job and you are an inspiration to us all.

I have often prayed for patience but I have been unwilling to wait for it.

Thank you, Vance

[animal]

Looks good Stan, can't wait to see it with the Blades mounted.

To me mounting of the blades has always been a milestone.

[StanFoster]

Vance- Thanks. It is a pleasure to have some more progress being done again with more parts to gnaw on. Tim- Thanks also. The rotorblades actually won't be installed until the factory checkout. That's when I receive my elastomeric bearings for the rotorhead. I wil be installing the tip weights, finishing up the drag links, and polishing the blades. By then my turbine should be here. Stan

[choppergabor]

Oh yeah! Looking good. She is going to be blindingly shiny :)

[StanFoster]

Finally some wood in this chopper! I had to make the root end plugs, epoxy and countersunk screws for their permanent attachment.

The tip end plugs were also made, but they wont be installed until after the 12 oz. tip weights are permanently installed.

I traced the airfoil pattern...and ground away what didnt belong, then just took an 8 pound sledge and drove them in......ha....just kidding. These were slowly ground down so it was a nice push fit....I didnt want the airfoil shape at the tip end to be changed. I drilled the pilot holes into these blocks first for the screws...then drilled the aluminum skins and countersunk them for the wood screws that along with epoxy hold these into place. The tip blocks weigh around 1/2 ounce and I was told they exert 18-20 pounds of centrifugal force. The 12 ounce tip weight exerts over 700 pounds.


Stan

[ylf]

Stan,

How are the 12oz tip weights secured to resist the 700 pounds trying to pull them out?

Mike

[kstorm32]

Hi Stan
I have been following your build, and what a great job.how long did it take to get all the parts from eagle ?

ken-

[StanFoster]

Mike- Good question on how the tip weights are going to be secured. I will be temporarily installing them soon. There are several large screws that work in shear to hold these weights in. The will be right behind the wooden tip plugs..but of course the tip plugs are not holding these energy boosters in.


Ken- Thanks....I cant answer how long it took me to get all the parts, until my turbine arrives. Then I will have all the parts! My first shipment arrived in February of 2008.


I forgot to mention that these root and tip plugs will have three 1/4 inch holes in them for ventilation.

Stan

[kstorm32]

Stan-What do you think of the MH-1,I talked to john and he had said that if everything goes good they might have kits for sale in a year or so.I will be buying a kit this year and wanted to wait till i see how the MH-1 does.the mini 500 had alot of problems but anything can be fixed. And it looks like John and them might be the people to do it.

Ken-

[StanFoster]

Ken- I can't say I am a good source for information on the MH-1 . It looks like it flies nice on the videos I have seen. I was really looking forward to getting to see it in person and fly it at Bensen Days. I personally have a rule to let a new machine be flown for 5 years before I invest in one. Not trying to put a damper on any MH-1 sales, but that is my way of letting others work the bugs out, and there are always upgrades made in those first 5 years. I waited on the Helicycle 5 years before I bought one, and I was pleasantly surprised receiving the latest upgrade to my engine mounting system. The group 5 I am in now all have this upgrade, and it is one reason my turbine has been delayed. Stan

[ylf]

Stan,

Are the tip weights an optional addition? I don't recall seeing any screws, besides the ones holding the plugs in, on the Helicycle blades I looked at when I was at Homer's last year. Maybe I just don't remember them, I'll have to go look at some pictures.

Edit: Never mind, I looked at some other build pictures and I now see the two large screws that hold the weights in the back channel of the leading edge.

Thanks,
Mike

[StanFoster]

Mike- The tip weights are held in with three 1/4 X 20 bolts. One in from the top and two up from the bottom. The tip weights are not an option, but a standard integral part of a rotor system designed for very goor autorotative characteristics. I know how to fly an R22 and everyone tells me that there is a lot more energy to play with. Those tip weights provide a lot of that. I will soon be giving first hand flight reports rather than 2nd hand. Nothing like experiencing it yourself. Stan

[StanFoster]

I received my last instrument this morning.....the digital tach that will be reading ou 62000 rpm someday. Its the rectangle one just above my top row of switches.

I had pre-cut the hole trusting Blakes measurements over the phone. I almost never do this..but I did....and was aprehensive about it until it slid in very nice and snug. Now if I had something to let this take the pulse of!

Its going to be tough to work on this the next several days as I am out of town finishing a stairway before Bensen Days.


Stan

[StanFoster]

Mike- Heres a clearer answer to your question about the tip weights. The 12 oz. tip weight will slide down inside the spar, and after all the work on the blades is complete...these will be secured with those 3 screws I have pictured. The tip weights will be one inch away from the end of the rotor, leaving a 1/4 inch space behind the wooden tip plug. Energy in motion! I incorrectly calculated the energy of these by using 8 ounces.....they are 12 ounces...and each tip weight is pulling out with a force of 962 pounds at 610 rpm. Thats some serious power!

Stan

[Resasi]

Nothing exotic like depleted uranium then Stan?:)

[StanFoster]

Leigh- No depleted uranium! That is some heavy stuff. I am the type that if 12 oz. is better than 0 oz. why not put 12 pounds pounds down that spar? Once you get the blades up to speed....you could shut the engine off....pull collective and go fly for awhile! ha



Stan

[ylf]

Thanks for the pictures Stan, very clear now.

[StanFoster]

I just posted these pictures in another thread directed to Chuck Beaty for his opinion. I precisely balanced my rotorblade on two fulcrum blocks spaced exactly parallel to the leading edge...until it was perfectly balanced. I then placed the tip weight in its channel....and noticed that the centerline of this 12 oz. tip weight was right over the balance point...so the chordwise balance does not change with the addition of the tip weight.

The balance point is exactly 2.0 inches from the leading edge...and the chord width is exactly 7.25 inches. This means the chordwise balance is at .2758...or slightly over 27.5%.

I had to file a little to get this tip weight nestled all the way to the front of the channel in the spar. This satisfied my curiosity and I can at least give someone an answere where the chordwise balance is.


Stan

[kstorm32]

Stan
Does Eagle sell the builder's video's to people that are thinking of buying there product?

Ken-

[StanFoster]

Ken- Call Eagle R&D at 208-466-4120 and ask them if they will sell you a set. If they wont....contact me and I will sell you an extra set that I have.


Stan

[kstorm32]

Thanks Stan ill do that...Also I would like to hear about if you get to fly the new MH-1 at Benson day,and what you think ..

Ken-

[StanFoster]

Ken- The MH-1 isn't going to make it to Bensen Days according to what I know. Some necessary upgrades are being done and I am not the one to say what these are. Stan

[Aviomania]

Stan, Are the blades hollow after the spars or do they have some ribs inside?

[StanFoster]

Nicholas- They are hollow behind the spar. They feel heavy and the skins are much thicker than any blades I have had. You could bump them on a bench pretty hard without creasing them. I know they wouldn't have creased like my blades did on my SparrowHawk and others that ate a pre-rotator belt. They just feel very tough and look like they are well made. Stan

[Aviomania]

Thanks Stan.

Most probably they use 2024 skins

[Aviomania]

and i have to say.... Excellent workmanship!!! :first:

[StanFoster]

These blades are accumulating lots of hours. Mark Whistler has over 700 hours on his Helicycle blades, is one of the heavier pilots, and has flown his Helicycle higher thsan any other at 12400 ft. +/-. The pilots all tell me they are performers, are very smooth, and have a lot of extra autorotative energy. Those minute rivets on the trailing edge add redundancy and very little drag. Stan

[StanFoster]

I tell the good and the bad. I had some good stuff to post here about successfully installing my tip weights....those marvelous pieces of 12 0z. masses that produce over 960 pounds of centrifugal force. Well, what holds these little energy creators in place are 3 1/4 x 20 bolts. Simple enough. I located them precisely 1 inch from the blade tip, drilled an 1/8 inch hole in one....took it out and drilled the hole in my drill press with a #7 drill like a 1/4 x 20 bolt takes. I then anchored this tip weight into place...and flipped the blade over, and located the two bolts on the bottom. Simple enough....then I tapped these holes out. Last step was to use an 82 degree countersink and slowly countersink and keep checking so that the head of the screw is ever so slightly high above the airfoil. The smoothness of the airfoil , especially on the top here needs to be just right so as not to lose any lift here. I will slightly dress these down when they are permanently installed and locktited in. The rotorblade will be balanced by grinding weight off the heavy end on one of these energy bars.

All was fine...I finished the first one...and now its do it again on the other blade. I tapped the first hole...countersunk it.. anchored with the top screw...flipped the blade over and marked with 1/8 pilot holes again. I took the tip weight out for just two more easy taps. This is either I had a neanderthal moment...or my USA made tap was defective. I honestly think it was a neanderthal moment...because I was walking that tap in and out of the first holes I did probably 25 times each hole. I BROKE the dang tap off insided the tip weight! I tried my best to work it out...but its still in there with some screwed up threads. I already called the factory to have them send me another one. Its not expensive at all...but whatever, even if I was successful getting that broken tap out...any threads screwed up would be forever on my mind. I dont need to be doing anything half ass on this machine.

You win some, you lose some. This was a minor loss. I could see had I been tapping it with the weight insided the blade....and if it broke off then.....now...that would be major!


Stan

[j bird]

Been there, done that, good thing in a relatively cheap, uncomplicated part.
You wonder how many taps are broken in large industrial machining.
Any way, I just have to say, your a truly talented craftsman!

[HobbyCAD]

...or my USA made tap was defective. I honestly think it was a neanderthal moment...

...or perhaps the lack of (correct) lubrication? I don't see any of it in your pictures. When one little steel swarf suddenly jams up the thread, it locks up the tap in an instant.

Lubrication for normal steel is easy to find, have any of you guy's tried Violet colored Methalated Spirits, the ones you get from Ace Hardware, on aluminum? It works like a bomb, it makes tapping threads a breeze, cutting it with a saw as easy as cutting through wood. It's the best lubricant for aluminum work I have ever used.

[StanFoster]

Hobbycad- I most certainly used oil, regular thread cutting oil. Give me a break. I just am admitting I muscled too hard on the tap. It had been awhile since I had tapped some holes, and I got too torquey on my wrench! But I most definately used cutting oil. Stan

[choppergabor]

Stan my friend this had to be the direct result of the moon....or the lack of it....or maybe there is something in the city water..... I had my fair share of messing up this week too :). No biggie. I break taps by the dozen hahaha. It's all good. It only shows you are in good shape. You can still muscle down a friggin tap :)

[CLS447]

Stan , you were getting excited......one more & I am finished...type of thing. Sounds like something I would do.

No biggie !

Next time use some lube.....ha ha .

[StanFoster]

Chris- You hit the nail on the head. I started out slowly working that tap through that iron bar, and even really watching it as the tap starts through the other side. I pay particular attention to how far the T handle has turned when it gets to tight to torque any more. I will see the handle stopping at 4 o'clock, back it out, clean the chips off, put a few drops of oil and run it in again. Then it may go to 5:30 this time, back it out, clean it, etc. But after doing all the first taps correctly, I just had a neanderthal moment and bulled my way through. I need a mistake every once in awhile to slap me back into using my brain muscle more than arm muscles! I am installing my drag links this morning, and these are a set of holes I have to be precise on. I will use number drills to sneak up on my final hole size . The drag links have a very important job of keeping the lead lag adjustment dead on. Stan

[CLS447]

We will give you one ! Don't do it again.

I wish I had your patience, now do a good job today, Stan !

[StanFoster]

Chris- I have always thought you had a lot of patience. Everything you do is so detailed and first class. You show having a very high level of patience with how you handled your engine problems. Then all that nice particular detail you do. You are very patient. Stan

[CLS447]

Coming from you Stan that is a big compliment!

I feel .....do it right or don't do it !

Have fun at BDs !

[karlbamforth]

Stan,

After breaking many taps, especially tiny little 3 and 4 mil things I was shown to grind a groove into the shaft of the tap half way between the square drive and the cutting thread. Its a weak point so when it snaps you still have a little of the shaft to grab and unscrew it.

An alternative is to get the tap spark erroded to remove it.

Of course in something this critical and at a low cost, replacement as you have done is probably best.

[StanFoster]

Karl- That is a very clever tip...thanks! You make it break at a point where you can at least grab ahold of it. Spark erooding? That sounds interesting. I figured someone would mention a way to get that tap out. If that tap had broken off inside the rotorblade...I may be asking you more questions. Breaking the tap is another good lesson to me that I tend to be very cautious and tenacious with the first new task, but when I have another one to do...I have to be equally as patient.

Stan

[StanFoster]

This mornings mission was to install the drag link plates to the root ends of each blade. These come with 1/8 inch pilot holes drilled. You lay them out as per plans...then start at the inner most bolt and drill an 1/8 hole through the bracket,...then the blade and out the bottom bracket. You have to freehand the drill to be perpendicular to the chordline of the blade...not the sloping surface of course. You can tell if you are ever so slightly coming out the bottom hole a few thousandths off... but it doesnt matter as long as you patiently progressively work larger number drills through the holes as you enlarge them. I went in ever increasing number drill size up to 3/16...and then bolted it. A vise grip secured the drag link plates to the plan...and then each hole was progressively drilled larger. These drag link plates cant have any slop...as these have considerable loads that maintain the alignment of the blades. Very crucial...and one just cant start popping the final hole through these brackets for the first boring.

I was happy with the tightness of the brackets on the first blade. Next I had to adjust the brackets by putting them in a vice and slowly twisting them parallel to each other and for a nice tight fit for the rodends that will go into them.

I finished the first one and was well pleased. Now I had another one to do...and I am fighting a genetic defect that wants me to just go do it in about 1/4 the time. I learned from yesterdays neanderthal moment...to try my best and act like its the first time I have done it.

It went well....but did take about 1/2 the time.

I then sanded them and am applying paint to them right now.

Stan

[Brian]

Stan in my shop days I have broke a few what i do now is put the tap in my dewalt battery drill set the clutch to a very low setteng just enough to do some cutting but not to drive it all the way at one time. Use a cutting fluid depending on mat run it in till the clutch slips back it out relube and run it back in continue till you are thru. With a little practice this method has worked for me for years. I have probably taped several hundred holes this way and not broke a tap. You should check your tap it has to be in new condition good luck brian hebden

[StanFoster]

Brian- I definately have DeWalt drills with clutches. I may try that next time.


Here I installed the final switches for engaging the rotor clutch...and disengaging it. There are two red buttons...one engages the clutch slowly at the initial start up through a resistor...and the other red switch runs the screw on the clutch to full engagement.

The DPDT switch when flipped up is for operating the red engagement buttons. When the clutch is full engaged...there is a 300 pound overcenter mechanism that locks it in...and a microswitch is tripped turning on an engagement light in my dash.

When the DPDT switch is flipped down...then the black button at the bottom is manually held on and this drives the clutch screw to disengagement. Likewise at the bottom of its travel...a microswitch is turned on..and a disengagement light comes on in the dash.

There is a little 5 amp breaker next to the switch running this. By the way, those labels by my fuel selector are cheesey......they are temporary until I find the right looking labels for all these switches. Next project is to start polishing my blades...... To be continued..

My data plate was just installed....and Kim Byrns is the one to see for laser engraving. She did another nice job...as her first one was lasering my switch lights in my panel.


Stan

[Brian]

Stan I had a dream last night I see awards for a helicycle at mentone hope I am there to see brian hebden

[StanFoster]

I have my drag link plates painted...and wanted to temporarily install them. I had the problem of the top and bottom surfaces of the airfoil sloping towards each other at a little less than 12 degrees. That meant my bolt heads would be off a little less than 6 degrees. You can see the gap under the bolt heads at the trailing edge. Not acceptable to just draw up the bolts and letting them bear down on one side only. This doesnt look good....isnt as strong...and it tends to bend the bolt to conform to the sloped surface.

I decided to bevel grind the washers under each bolt. The washers are 1/16 inch thick...and 7/16 across. I needed a taper from full thickness to just about a 1/64 of an inch on the thin side. This made the top side of the airfoil fit almost perfectly....the bottom side only needed about a 1/32 ground off on one side.

I tried my little magnet...and held it up to my disc grinder....and talk about hitting a home run at first bat. This worked perfectly. I soon ground 6 top washers with a sharper taper.....and 6 bottom washers with a slight taper.

They now draw up nice and evenly.... The bolts will be replaced with ones that are an 1/8 longer...as they are just not quite through the locknuts yet.

You can look at the first and last photos and see the improvement! This kind of stuff is not in the instructions. We are on our own on a lot of this finesse stuff.....letting improvisation show us.

Stan

[utahgyrocop]

Stan,
That gives new definition to the term attention to detail. Thank you again for sharing. Can't wait so see it flying.

Stay safe.

[choppergabor]

Neat idea with the magnet Stan. :) I always learn something by watching your crafting! BTW 2 more days!

[StanFoster]

I thought I would experiment with polishing one end of a rotor blade. I bought a 7 inch polisher...variable speed so I can run it slow and not heat up the aluminum. I did one set of doublers as that is the most work...started with 150 grit,..then 220....320.....and then 400. I was going to go to 600, but I got out the polish just to see what happened. It takes a lot of elbow grease on these blades before the power is applied. Once these blades are polished like a mirror....they will be easy to maintain with frequent polishing to get the bugs off. Its going to take probably a daily on each blade whenever I get going on them.

I am glad I decided not to paint the blades....no paint to worry about coming off....changing the balance...

Stan

[animal]

Wow,very nice, wish mine looked that good.

[Resasi]

Stan that is Concourse D'Elegance standards.

Pretty to see such fine workmanship.

[jcarleto]

Stan,

Yeah man! I bet you'll have bugs lined up for miles and miles waiting to be the first one to smash into those bad boys!

[choppergabor]

Wow you could shave in those. Who needs mirror?

[lanichol]

Would you consider a clear coat?

[StanFoster]

Thanks, I really appreciate the nice comments. Nothing special going on here , just trying to execute patience. Larry, a clearcoat may work, I don't know at this time. But this polish that I bought from Ernie Boyette is great stuff. From what I understand about polished aluminum, once you have a mirror finish, routine minor polishing will keep the bugs off and the shine on. I won't have any problem polishing a rotorblade. Stan

[Resasi]

Guess that 'purple' stuff is good then.

[StanFoster]

Leigh- No product will replace good preparation. This purple stuff cuts down and polishes nice, but if you first don't do a lot of careful sanding by crosshatch sanding, then sand with the length of the blade, before going onto finer and finer grits, , you aren't preparing a good base to polish.
If you don't do these steps first, you just have a wavy surface , shiny but with polished scratch marks . I just for the heck of it started polishing with my buffer and the purple stuff. Oh, it was shiny, but with undulations going on, and polished scratches. Polishing is just like most anything else. You get out of it what you put into it. Few things in life are different. A little extra time at whatever you are working on usually turns a good job into an excellent one. Too many times the "baby" is right there, just waiting for someone to put the extra effort delivering it! Stan

[birdy]

Bloodyell Stan, you have the patience of a saint mate.

Bugger the turbine, chuck a 914 init and go like ell. ;)

[Vance]

You are extraordinarily fastidious Stan!

What is the latest published fantasia on the engine delivery date?

Thank you, Vance

[StanFoster]

Vance- The latest update on my turbine arrival? The last time I asked about it,..Blake asked me when I last asked him. I thought about it and said....5 days. He said....You are 5 days closer to getting your turbine!

I went away in ignorant bliss ....happy with what was very true information.

I have enough to keep me busy for 10 days after I get back from Bensen Days. It should be another 10 days closer by then!

I have reached another level of patience from all this. I have learned to find other things to do on my chopper that I probably wouldnt have done. If this were all scripted out...and I am not the author....it seems to be well written.


Stan

[kstorm32]

I feel like a crack head waiting for my next fix....Ill pick up his turbine just to see the post of it in his fine chopper.I want more!

Ken-

[StanFoster]

Back from Bensen Days...and just had to touch something that is going to fly me soon. I spent a little time polishing these blades.

After trying a few techniques...here is what I came up with. I went over the blades with a random orbit sander with 150 grit...going up and down until all the marks underneath were replaced by 15o grit marks. You can see the little parentheses the sander makes. Repeat with 180, then 220, then 320, then 400. I then polished and it almost looked perfect...but I could still see ever so small, very vague minute swirls.....so I the hand sanded straight back and forth with 400 grit...until the swirls were gone...then same with 600 grit...then 800 grit. Then I power buffed at slow speed with the Purple that Ernie Boyette sells....great product! It was good enough for me. Any more perfection would have required exponentially more work. I am not a finatic.....as I just want to have a nice mirror finish that I can maintain easlily by using the Purple polish Ernie Boyette sells.

My tip weight arrived that replaced the one I neanderthally broke a tap off in.....so I may find a few minutes to fix that today.


Stan

[StanFoster]

One down...one blade to go...



Stan

[Monte55]

Schweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. I love shiny stuff. Good job Stan.

[ckurz7000]

Awww shucks, when is the friggin turbine going to arrive at your doorstep?!?!?!??

I admire your Zen attitude, Stan, because I'd be royally pissed at Eagle R&D if they are repeatedly unable to meet expected delivery time to within half a year or more! I would at least expect from them to come clear and tell me: "We are sorry but because of ...... (fill in blanks) ...... your turbine is going to be delayed by 6 months."

Sorry for the emotional burst ;)

-- Chris.

[StanFoster]

Chris- If I thought there was some shady , deceitful actions going on delaying my turbine, I would be livid. I know they are good folks, everything shipped so far is just meticulously made. This takes care, and extra time. The only fault I have told them personally is that they are too optimistic on their shipping dates. Sure, I want that turbine badly, and I find myself almost numb thinking about it. Waiting will just add value to it once it arrives. It won't do me one bit of good ranting and raving trying to get someone to rush quality. Anytime I have ever tried to rush quality, I failed. Its rare to succeed doing so. I try to dwell on what positive has come out of these long waits. It gave me more time to think how I want to do things, change a few things, and not be rushed doing them. I have acquired another level of patience. I have found I need to work on my impatience towards others asking me when am I going to get my turbine! Ha. Once I receive my turbine, the numbness will go away and A serious push to completion and first flight will follow. Stan

[StanFoster]

I have decided to draw a line in the sand with this thread. I am not going to post anymore in this thread until I have pictures of my turbine in my shop. I will be polishing my other rotorblade and then installing them. This thread has been drug along too much by little baby steps . Once the baby is delivered, I will resume posting. Anyone that knows me has no doubt my next reply here won't be UNTIL there is a Solar T-62 turbine delivered to my shop. This shouldn't be anymore than 2 weeks away! Ha Stan

[choppergabor]

Oh yeah! 2 weeks....sure.....yep.....aha.....2 weeks.....that's it! No moooo. :)

[All_In]

Yep 2 weeks for sure this time buddy.:confused: :suspicious: Hahahahahahahahaha :Cry:

It is sooooo shiny!!!! I like shiny!

[All_In]

145K hits on this thread, WOW!!!!!

[brett s]

You're a more patient guy than I am - it's not the total amount of time that would piss me off, it's the "two more weeks" thing over & over when they know the odds of making that are near zero. Just tell me a realistic date & stick to it!

[animal]

wow those blades shine, when ya run out of things to do come down to n.c. and you can polish mine... :)

I dought mine would ever look that good.

[kstorm32]

Stan,

You have one of the most documented threads ever of a Helicycle,And i hope you keep the posts up.I have contacted them about a contract with Eagle R@D and they say that ill get everything within 16 months. After seeing how long its taken you I might put it on hold,

Ken-

[StanFoster]

I have lifted my self imposed ban of posting in this thread. My turbine has arrived and I can now continue posting. Thanks everyone for the continued interest in this thread even while it was dormant for 2 months. The hits were still adding up at an average of 1200 a week without any new inputs. I cant tell you how much I appreciate it.

I have to stay in a methodical mode to do this right....so making Mentone is very unlikely. I have plenty to chew on now.....I am overwhelmed right now...and I dont need or want the "fly it to Mentone" pressure.


Stan

[All_In]

It's getting real and fun now buddy!!!!

This rocks!!!

She looks BAD A$$!

[animal]

Congrats Stan, now get that baby installed.

[choppergabor]

:) YAAAAAAYYYYYYYY I told ya the boys could see your house LOL. Happy for you.

[StanFoster]

I have already called Blake and told him what a superb looking job he did on the turbine. Everything they touch is very nicely done. I have total confidence that they took their time making sure it was done right.

There were a lot of reasons why the 2 weeks took 6 months. I have stated all of them throughout this thread. In hindsight I needed a lot of that time to layout how I want to do stuff...and I had all the time in the world to do it. I have many many days of work already done, because they were so kind to honor my request of shipping what they had ahead.

I am very impressed with this company, and my opinion never changed from a lot of the comments that a wait like this naturall would generate.

My dad was really getting concerned......and he just figured I had been taken. If I had thought for a fleeting second that there was an improprietry going on....I would have flown out there and talked to them.

Anyway....thats history.....and now on to my build....which by the way, is going to have no deadline to meet. I have enjoyed this build a lot....and I am not going to get my panties in a knot trying to make Mentone. Its not going to happen.

Stan

[kstorm32]

Looks good Stan

I did not no they made Jet A formula.Can't wait to see all the new pics


Ken-

[StanFoster]

I am preparing the gearbox for painting. You can see the bottom drive pulley and the lighting coils behind it. I took this off and taped the most off.

The one picture with the felt tip pen pointing is showing an upgrade that keeps the seal from backing out, which happened on one or two. Its a simple fix consisting of washers held by small screws.

I took the starter off taped the rest off.

John - I am so used to using blue tape that I didnt use the tin foil like you mentioned. This stiuff just rips right off.

It sure feels good working on the turbine.


Stan

[StanFoster]

Here it is taped off. The last pictures are a major reason the turbine took so long getting here. Time had to allow a new and better engine mounting system, that keeps the drive belts parallel while they wear or are being adjusted. Very nice components...one has a spherical bearing in it.

I am glad the group 5 I am in have the latest greatest engine mount. They will be offering this in the future as an upgrade for the other Helicycles.


Stan

[Jason O]

Hello Stan,

Are you going to put tape over the bolts and cap screws (or remove them)?

Jason

[PR_Arecibo_DC]

Stan, I am very happy for you... Please make sure that after all this time...you get your well diserved FUN....

[StanFoster]

Jason- Good question. I didnt tape the bolt heads because I am putting in some sacrificial bolts...just to hold the gearbox together...then I will have those nice black bolts contrasting on my whiite epoxied gearbox. I did the same on the main transmission...put is some hardware store bolts..then put the nice AN bolts to doll it up. I have been guilty of painting bolts and nuts...but not this time!


Stan

[StanFoster]

This is the clutch engagement system. The electric motor runs the screw to engage or disengage the drive belts. The parts with the tuff rubber on them are part of an over center apparatus that locks in 300 pounds of pressure. Micro switches are activated at both ends of the screw drive which trips my engage and disengage lights on my dash.

The drive screw is run by a DPDT switch....and when you start out engaging it...the first button is used which is limeted by a 10 ohm resistor......then after partial engagement....the other switch is pressed which feeds this motor the full 12 volts for more rapid engagement. Pretty slick and simple in my opinion.


Stan

[PW_Plack]

I am glad the group 5 I am in have the latest greatest engine mount. They will be offering this in the future as an upgrade for the other Helicycles...

Stan, my understanding is that the engine mount upgrade cannot be retrofitted to earlier Helicycles because the required mounting points on the engine were machined off to save weight.

Perhaps they'll develop a different mounting scheme for Group 4 and earlier?

[choppergabor]

I sure did miss you Stan working on your bird and posting the pics. I am glad to see you back into your old routine :)

[StanFoster]

Paul- its true that my upgrade won't retrofit to the older Helicycles, but Blake told me they were going to come up with a kit so that the other Helicycles can have this easier to tighten system. Its a nice improvement, but something that isn't mandatory at all. The other Helicycles are doing just fine. I like having it though, it made my wait have some value to it. Gabor- It feels good to have the heart of this machine in my hands. I am going to just steadily chip away at it. Lots to do, but I like working on it. Stan

[utahgyrocop]

Stan,
Congrats! Thank you for sharing.
Stay safe!