Helicycle Hatchery

[TPYJR]

Hi Stan,

Here is a panel with the map2000. I have pics of panels with the Garmin
also. I'm leaning to the Garmin myself right now, I have a couple and
I think the future support might be better? You can also add collision avoidance
to the unit. But, I really like the looks and size of the map2000. What to do? What to do?
Tom

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0kim7/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/Panel1.jpg.w300h221.jpg

[utahgyrocop]

Tom,

Nice Panel!!!

[StanFoster]

Tom: You are just another reason I like to think out loud here. I like that panel layout and it has me thinking.

I still prefer the airspeed and rotor tach at the top.

I love that Airmap 2000 ....it fits in the layout nicely. The Helicycle has plenty of panel real estate to do about anything you want.


Thanks for that nice picture.


Stan

[StanFoster]

I am just getting ready for my next shop night coming up. Here is a half door and frame....and a frame for a full door getting test fit. The outside of the flange will be cut off.

I have some hinges to make...latches....plexibonding...riveting.....lots of fun stuff coming up.



Stan

[PR_Arecibo_DC]

Stan, your helicycle is comig along pretty good... Times goes quick... How you doing on your Helicopter Training?

I am still in Baghdad... got extended over here for few more months...but as soon I get the chance and get back to the US I will star again on the hobby.... I decide to go with the Rotorway A-600 Talon, I want those 2 seat....This one is going to take more time to acomplish but as soon I get back I will take 6 months off, no work, no boss, good sleep and a lot of flying...

Take care and keep the good work...Be Safe

Jose

[brett s]

Coming along nicely :)

I like the rotor tach & airspeed at the top, what I'd personally change is moving the other engine gauges on the right ride of the GPS beneath the rotor tach - easier to quickly scan them all.

[StanFoster]

Brett- You are correct having the engine gauges on the right all together. I was just basically showing where my 3.25 inch and the 2.25 inch gauges went. I am not sure exactly what gauges I will have, but instead of squeezing in another 2.25 inch instrument, I will double up the oil pressure and oil temp gauge, and my voltage meter with something else. What I am almost certain of is the ASI and rotor tach at the top in their own 3.25 inch gauge- and the Airmap 2000 as shown. Stan

[StanFoster]

Jose- Good luck with your Talon project! That is a nice helicopter. I am starting my R22 training right after Bensen Days. I will hit it slow but steady as I wont have my Helicycle finished till late spring of 09. Stan

[StanFoster]

Here I am starting on making the half and full door hinges.

The round tapered pieces are the door latche housings.. I had 7 of these that needed their 1/4 thick bases cut down.

Stuff like this can eat up the clock unless you devise a safe way to cut these accurately.

I drilled out an oak block for a tight fit...then secured these latch housings
with two screws. You dont want these turning into missiles coming out of that miter box! I was able to duplicate the plans to these housings very quicky and accurately. Fout chops with the saw....back out two screws...insert next housing...and saw.

More sawing pictures next post.

[StanFoster]

Grinding these would have taken much longer...and the housings would get hot. Nothing like the miterbox .....just so the aluminum is held securely!


Stan

[StanFoster]

More details of the door hinges. I cant leave out any detail now on this Helicycle build...because when I am all done...I am going to burn a build cd and it should help future builders all the head scratching I have to go through. :twitch:

I had to make 90 degree bends in the aluminum...so I made a poor mans brake out of some oak blocks. These protected the aluminum from the vice jaws...plus I had sanded a small radius for the aluminum to bend over.

When they are all bent...I then sanded them with a strap sander in my drill press. I dont want any sharp marks making stress risers. Would want a door to come off at 110 mph.:eek:


Stan

[Arnie Madsen]

Stan, your helicycle is comig along pretty good... Times goes quick... How you doing on your Helicopter Training?

I am still in Baghdad... got extended over here for few more months...but as soon I get the chance and get back to the US I will star again on the hobby.... I decide to go with the Rotorway A-600 Talon, I want those 2 seat....This one is going to take more time to acomplish but as soon I get back I will take 6 months off, no work, no boss, good sleep and a lot of flying...

Take care and keep the good work...Be Safe

Jose
Jose
I hope you make it home safe and can start building.
When you get a chance , you should start a thread about the machine you are considering. I would like to hear all your thoughts on deciding about the Talon (or whatever you decide to build). I follow some of the Rotorway forums but most of them are completed machines or else the builder sites are available only for registered kit owners.
I would sure appreciate hearing your side of it as you make your plans and decisions. Think out loud on the forum for all of us to read . Something like that. If you want . Many thanks.

=========

STAN
Dont burn your fingers on those hot metal parts !!!! Never mind , I know you are safe , I count your fingers every night in your photographs still see all 10 there. Pretty good for a guy in your trade.

You have a good blend of woodwork combined with aluminum to fabricate your parts. Pretty smart ideas. I manufactured 500 aluminum grill surrounds for some farm machinery a few years ago. There were something like 4000 different pieces to be cut with a rotary saw. I hated the cutting part. Bullets would fly sometimes. Wish I had used your ideas. Oh well , got them done & still have all my fingers too.

[PR_Arecibo_DC]

Arnie, you bet... I already deside to go with the Talon.... It took me a lot of work trying to convince the wife but finally she give me the ok... I should be back home by June... I will place the order some time between June 27 and July 13... that is my time frame to go to Arizona and visit the Factory and place my order in person... I will star contacting Rotorway in the next few weeks to schedule all that...

Take care...

Jose

[StanFoster]

Arnie- That was a major job you just described and you have to practice safe methods also. I have always respected my fingers, they have a major influence on feeding me! I am still inclined to not saw aluminum with my table saw and miterbox. Movement is what you have to be sure doesnt happen, even with wood. I ALWAYS have eye and ear protection when sawing, stand clear of the projectile area, use push sticks when I can, cut with a sacrificial piece of wood that has full contact on the bottom, and sandwich some sacrificial wood on the top side of the cut when possible. I do have a dependable gut 'danger' indicator, that usually I listen to. When I dont, I either get a good lesson or at the least scold myself for doing something I am not comfortable with. Its just like flying, if I am tense or uncomfortable, then I need to stay on the ground. Stan

[StanFoster]

More gnawing on the door frames. I have the first window clecoed in and I am now adjusting the perimeter gap before I bond the window and frame together and rivet it as well.


I learned something about drilling plexiglas. I am using a #30 drill for my countersunk rivets. If you take a scrap of plexiglas...and just drill a hole in it with a sharp bit....then bend it with pliers....it will snap right across the hole without much flexing. But......if you dull the drill bit by spinning it on concrete....it melts itself through...and doesnt make stress risers. I tried another scrap and it will bend much more before breaking. I did not know this when I installed the windshields in my last two gyrocopters.:rolleyes:


I was getting ready to countersink...and noticed that my countersink was a standard 82 degree woodworking one. So I ordered a 100 degree one from Aircraft Spruce.


The last picture shows the interior view of the collective side door. I do not have any spacers around it as yet...as I am just now starting to cleco the door track for proper spacing. My thinking is to have it tighter at the top as the door hinges at the top leaving the gap bigger where its needed at the bottom while the door closes.

B.J. designed some real cute door latches for this which the last series of pictures from yesterday shows some parts.

Stan

[Jtravis1]

A uni-bit also works very well for drilling plexiglass.

Be careful with the rivets if BJ did it like he did the rotorway ones. Many of the doors develop cracks. I decided to leave the rivets off and bonded the plexi to the frame with west system epoxy thickened with micro. It was held together with clecos until cured. I removed the clecos before the epoxy was fully cured and cleaned them up.

Some others use scotch weld 2216 b/a. Both work very well and you would have to break the frame before you break the bond.

[StanFoster]

Justin: Once again you are a wealth of knowledge. This is weird.....I was experimenting with some rivets on some plexiglass yesterday and thinking how the epoxy should hold it on its own. But...I am trying to stick to the plans....however I trust your experience seeing some Rotorway doors cracking around the rivets had me post that question on the Helicycle builders forum.

I installed the two windshields on the last two gyrocopters I built. The first one was riveted and the SparrowHawk was bolted on. Whenever I would wear my polarized sunglasses....I could see stress circles in the lexan around each rivet,....but none around the bolted on ones.


Justin....thanks....I am holding off on the riveting until I get some feedback from other Helicycle owners.

Akoschier: Do you have any input on this?

I have plenty of clecoes!

Stan

[StanFoster]

Justin- When you cleaned your clecoes, was there a particular solvent you used on the slightly cured epoxy? The epoxy that is supplied with the doors has a nice 40 minute working time. If I decide not to use the rivets, I will experiment to see what the window of time is for pulling the clecoes. Stan

[Jtravis1]

Stan,

I always use acetone. It seems to work OK. I try to say away from MEK. Nitrile gloves are a must and will still eat away if exposed to enough acetone.

But another thing I have done worked real well too. Bar straws, the kind that people use as stirrers in mixed drinks, fit perfectly over 1/8" clecos. They also flex enough to allow the cleco pull in.

I cut them down to about 1" and put them over the ends of the clecos. I then inserted the clecos and left them in place till the epoxy cured. Usually the cleco will come out and the straw will stay behind. With a pair of pliers the straws come right out with a twist.

Kind of like a cleco condom:D. Worked well for me.

[StanFoster]

Justin: I just received a message from Homer Bell. He advised me not to deviate from the instructions.....to use the 1/8 aluminum rivets as supplied...and that no one has had a bit of problem. The countersunk head will not overstess the plexiglass. He said the epoxy does not "melt" into the plastic.....

So...once my countersink comes...it will be back to the original plan.....but thanks for your input.


Stan

[StanFoster]

More build pictures from yesterday. I want to repeat myself in that my intent for this thread is not to show every bolt that is going into my Helicycle...but rather to document the whole build process so that future or current Helicycle builders can have a easily accessible forum to access and see in chronological order the whole process.

I would love to have access to such a thread right now from a previously built Helicycle. So.....the word is getting out and I am receiving quite a number of e-mails from helicopter guys that are just visitors here on this forum.

Anyway....here is a shot of one of my two doors all clecoed and ready for the rivet/bonding process as soon as my countersink arrives.

There is a picture of one of the half doors

The last ones are the latches. The collective side half door gets three of these....the collective side full door gets four of them. Both the right side half and full doors are to be bolted on. But I am going to make quick tach pins like I did for my SparrowHawk doors. There will be marginal days where I will want to fly with a full door on the right...and just a half door....cold days of course both full doors....and warm days...the half doors will be on.

I have learned a little bit more about the aerodynamics of why the full doors arent as fast as the half doors. I couldnt understand at first but now I read that the full doors need turbulence generator strips applied to the front edge of the doors.....and the results are now the same speed as the half doors. Apparently this trips the laminar flow around that slick cabin and reduces the drag to bump up the speed. Originally the half doors produce 7-9 mph increase over no doors at all....while the full doors would only increase the speed 2-3 mph. But now with the turbulence generator strips....the speed increase is on par with the half doors.

I found these little turbulence strips on my plans....and I will of course post pictures of them when they are installed.

Stan

[tsled]

Hiya Stan,

Looks like you are doing a fine job on your build. You mentioned in one of your post that you wished there were other sites on the Helicycle, I have had mine up for over 3 years now at:
http://www.helibuilder.net/
and a short 2 minute movie a friend took of a take off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGsncUuhRe4
Keep up the good workmanship and ifin you do have any questions the Helicycle builders Forum has tons of great info and tips.

I started out by building a Bandit gryo and also flew RAF and an AirComand, lots of fun but the Helicycle is that times 1,000 !!! You gona love it.

Fly smooooooth, fly safe, ENJOY!
Tom...

[dennisu]

Hi Stan

Just joined the forum and I noticed that you were setting up the control linkages and were making sure that you had the right amount of movement at the input end. I found that it is better to just install the controls and then when the output device is attached to finish the stops for the controls. I worked at getting the 2 7/8 inch movement of the tail rotor pitch control cable but when I put the tail rotor gearbox and rotor on and with the pitch slider making a full travel from the rotor hub to the tail rotor gearbox the amount of cable movement was less than 2 7/8. On the cyclic roll control stop also I worked at getting the amount required and again it is more than necessary once I had checked with the swashplate in place. This required thickening up the stop bolt because I had already ground off the tabs to get the amount called for in the specs.

Dennis
Builder 3-23

[StanFoster]

Tom and Dennis: Thanks for your first posts on Rotary Forum!

Thanks also to you both for your comments. I am noticing Helicycle guys all over and glad you are here now.


Dennis: I have just initially set the 2 7/8 inch travel on the tailrotor drive...and the other controls are set "roughly". I know that what counts is actual movement "at" the rotorhead and "at" the tailrotor later on.

I am on dialup...but will see if I can access your site without much frustration.

I know the Helicycle builders group has a wealth of information... but getting anything like a picute takes F-O-R-E-V-E-R! I have the satellite internet guy coming next month to fix this for good for me...I cant wait.

I would love to hear some of your build and flying stories. I am really looking forward to flying this helicopter next year as I hear so many good feedbacks from this helicopter.

Stan

[StanFoster]

Tom, Dennis, Akoschier--or any other Helicycle owner-

Do you guys have the auxulliary fuel tank installed in your ship?

I have a bunch of other questions but I have to get out the door.


Thanks....

Stan

[TPYJR]

Hi Stan,

Here is a question to go along with the aux. tank, for the
Helicycle guys. What sort of fuel burn rate (GPH) are you
experiencing?

Tom
Build #6

[StanFoster]

Tom: I dont know if you get the Experimental Helo magazine..but the last issue had a nice article from Jim Little about his 1575 mile cross country flight in his Helicycle last summer. Jim is 210 pounds..and he has the auxillary fuel tank. He was burning right at 13 gallons an hour ,,,but...was clicking along around 105 mph. The turbine will burn less than that...but Jim was pushing it and Helicycle just loves to cruise fast. The higher fuel consumption is somewhat offset by the high speed its capable of cruising at.

Stan

[TPYJR]

Hey Stan,

I was going to ask you if you got Experimental Helo too. I like the article in
question. I just wish that the company would deal with the fuel fill issue.
I know it was originally designed to take 100LL, but she's Jet A now. Be nice
if they made the fill the right size. So we wouldn't have to rig stuff up or get adaptors.
Would be interested to know how consumption change with altitude at a given speed.

[StanFoster]

Tom: I have seen a few modifications to the top fuel tank to receive the large Jet A nozzle. It looks like a simple mod to do.

I dont know the fuel consumption figures at altitude...but it has no problem going to 11,000 feet. It maintains full power at a high altitude...but at what altitude it starts backing off 100% ...I dont know.

Are you getting the half and full doors? auxillary tank? powdercoated frame?

I know you have a long wait....but I have heard too convincing of testimonies from the Helicycle guys that will make your wait worth it.

Stan

[TPYJR]

I think I'll do half and full doors. Yes I qualify for the aux tank, luckily
no diet needed!! :lol: Would like to find a way of increasing my fuel load.
Given my weight 145, I've got a little margin for cargo or fuel.
I've seen all the tank mods out there. I'll add a link to a mod on top of a mod for you, not sure if you've see this one! Nice build site.

http://web.mac.com/timdrnec/iWeb/Site/Entries/CCADEF82-58D9-4737-BE26-F30FAE6E5C12.html

I'm not getting the airframe powder coated. With drilling and scratches I think
you negate the pros of powder coating. I also read somewhere, that the
coat might disguise cracks or other problems that may occur over time with
an airframe. I think I'll do a basic prime, fit all the drilled airframe parts and
then have the frame painted. And I'm not anodizing anything critical do to some findings that it my add to metal fatigue. I'm attaching an article form Exp Helo, by Stu Field. Article it available at there web page:http://www.experimentalhelo.com/

[StanFoster]

Tom: Thanks for that link. About the only place I can access with my dial up is the Helicycle builders site....and then getting any pictures is ridiculous. I am basically on my own with my Helicycle build. Two big reasons I am posting all the little details here are 1. other builders on dial up can at least see lots of pictures easily....and 2. I have a place I can review stuff I have done...and can follow along with the degrees to set stuft etc...and its a good review for when you have to change out something...the order of the stuff you have to take off is easier seen.

I modified these door latches for the full doors. You are supposed to have an L-shaped latch that protrudes through a narrow slot through the window. Thats of course so you can latch the doors from the outside. I was thinking that when I get inside...there isnt enough to grab on to like the half doors have. So I brazed on a little 5/8 inch tab...making it a T shape...and that will make operating the latches much easier. I am sure this has been done before....and probably better ideas than this....but like I said...with my dial up I am on my own.:twitch:

HEY....please keep sending links to anything pertaining to the Helicycle or T-62 turbine topics. Thanks.....:yo:


Stan

[StanFoster]

T-62 question: The stock configuration has the fuel shutoff if there is a voltage failure. Many of the guys (after the factory checkout) change this so that its fail safe....meaning it takes voltage to shut the fuel off. Can anyone...Justin maybe? elaborate more on this? I hear that nothing needs to be done to the wiring harness.....just some leads changed and a few jumpers. I wont be wiring this till later in the year....but am gathering information ahead of time.

Thanks for any responses!

Stan

[Jtravis1]

Yes this is a great idea.

I believe that Homer had a lead come lose on the NC (normally closed) solenoid and it caused a forced landing....several others too.

I believe that most people are changing the solenoid to a NO unit. I will look into whether or not they are changing the whole unit or modifying it.

[StanFoster]

Justin: Thanks again for all the effort you put into my questions. I am rat holing this info....and will reconsume it at a later time.:D


Stan

[akoschier]

Stan,

I'm still running the Hirth which at 6GPH does fine with the 16Gals of the standard system.
The area behind the seat is take up by a luggage compartment so if I ever put in the turbine it will be with side tanks as seen on the builders site.
avk

[StanFoster]

avk- I have the aux tank and with its high cruising speed, and how most of my flights are 1.5 hours or less, I will be able to fly my missions just like I did in the SparrowHawk, but 25 mph faster. Stan

[StanFoster]

Does anyone have a worn out Solar T-62 turbine they want to get rid of? I am wanting to get my hands on one just to take it apart.

Stan

[StanFoster]

Akoschier: I am getting ready to make the turbulence strips for the full doors. My plans are vague on the dimensions of these. It shows the angle to bend it but not clear on the length. I still think some vortex generators placed on the rivets would work nice. I may just fashion me some and experiment a little. Its no big deal changing them out later. I am leaning towards making some U-shaped with a divergent sides....and place 4 or 5 of these on the doors leading edge to trip the laminar flow. Its got to do something I would think.:D



Stan

[StanFoster]

Still waiting on Aircraft Spruce to send me that countersink bit. I havent had anytime to work on the latches the last few days until late today.

I am fitting the latch pins to the half door first...then they get set into position and the cabin holes drilled. Later I will place the full doors into position and reverse engineer their holes by using the cabin holes. This way my half doors and my full doors will use the same strike plates..

They have to share the same hinge bracket on the cabin...so this stuff has to be approached with thought first...instead of a drill.:wacko:


Stan

[akoschier]

Stan,
If I'm not mistaken its over 80% or the door height as seen from the slip stream in high speed cruise. (around 4 degrees rotor forward pitched)
But best give Blake a call and ask him for a Fax/sketch.
I'm currently on my way to Nassau and cant look into my pics.
avk

[akoschier]

Stan,
on another note, flying with full doors I would make some provisions to be able to dump the fixed door fast.
When BJ had his accident earlier on when he flew into the high tension wires he wound up lying on the side sliding over ground. he had half doors so getting out was not an issue.
If one winds up lying on the door side one might not be able to get out in a hurry when the conditions require it since the door facing up is bolted in.
Think about it.
Happy building,
avk

[StanFoster]

Akoschier-Thanks for the tip on the door latches. I had not thought of trying to escape through the fixed door if I was layed over on my left side. I had however planned on making quick tatch pins for that door as I want to change back and forth quickly between the half and full door. But what I had in mind would not be egress friendly. If I came up with some overcenter latches AND some safety pins, then I would have a tight door with the safety pins assuring the door wont depart should the latches pop loose. I have PLENTY of time to plan this mod! Thanks again. Stan

[MikeSherman]

Stan,

Is the documention of the kit poor? I understand there are videos of each section of the build and assembly drawings; however, I read of many builders not having the info they need when they need it. I don't like the idea of taking notes while watching a video so I can go out to the garage and build it. No - I shouldn't have a TV and DVD in the garage either.

If I were to buy/build a $40k kit, I would expect to have a decent documentation packet. Full assembly drawings, bills of material, etc. I feel the videos are for reference and getting the "overall big picture" of the build but should not be used as the primary source of data.

I have contacted Carolyn at Eagle, offering my services as a Mechanical Engineer to help with updating their documentation package. I have the tools and ability to create very nifty 3D solid models along with their corresponding BOM's. With a bit a effort, I could produce a nice drawing package to include with the kit.

Carolyn was not interested stating that the FAA needs to approve of all documentation that goes along with the kit. The process can take 6 months to approve. I'm not part of the Eagle R&D, so I don't have any idea of their business plan, however, I don't see why you wouldn't want to have a complete documentation packet.

I work for cheap with side projects like this because it interests me. She was not interested. Oh well.

I have started building the Helicycle in 3D on my computer. There are enough pictures floating around to get a sense of size of the parts. As I hit milestones on the build, I'll post pics for everyone's viewing entertainment. Maybe if I finish it in time for Homers, I'll bring it on a laptop to get some feedback.

Stan - your build is looking great! I look forward to each installment. Thanks.

-Mike

[timdrnec]

Hey Stan,
Beautiful job so far! Actually made me register for the forum, the better to follow your progress...
Mike, the documentation isn't bad exactly, there are full prints and inventorys of all the sub-assemblies, it's just that the video contains the bulk of the actual assembly instructions (nice really, monkey see/monkey do...). The original disks were difficult to navigate which sometimes made finding bits of information a challange. There is a set of aftermarket DVDs that are a LOT better. These should be released as the official factory disks soon...
If you have a technical question, or in your case an offer of technical assistance, you should talk to Blake not Caroline. He would be in a better position to evaluate and impliment your offer. And even if he isn't interested, the Builders Group is as active and involved as anything I've been apart of and operates almost as an extension of the Factory. I know that I would certainly be interested in talking with you about the 3D modeling and more electronic documentation of the kit. Feel free to contact me off list if ya wanna talk about it...
timdrnec (at) mac.com

Can't wait for more reports Stan! Thanks for taking us along for the ride...

[StanFoster]

Mike: I think your 3-d rendering and documentation would be a great help.... The Helicycle is a very nice kit...well packaged according to tasks....and the videos are good. I would like to see a builders manual like my SparrowHawk had. There are voids in the information...which is good and bad. I found it just makes me think harder.....and common sense helps fill in the gaps.

I have enjoyed the build so far.....and my first stage is winding down. Once I get the doors on...and install the windows....the cabin will come off and get painted.

Then it will be a few months before my transmission and tail rotor come in.


Tim: Welcome to the forum! Its a wealth of knowledge all the different rotorcraft topics.

Stan

[MikeSherman]

After a couple hours of messing around...

I won't ruin Stan's wonderful build, so if there is interest I will start my own thread.

-Mike

[utahgyrocop]

Stan,

As always the build is looking good. Keep it up.

Mike, about the 3d pictures...WOW!!!

Very cool to say the least.

Neat stuff all the way around.

BTW my Sparrowhawk build is on hold, got my daughter married off last week now it is time for sprinklers in the yard. I will get back to it as soon as I can make some time.

Stay safe!

[Arnie Madsen]

After a couple hours of messing around...

I won't ruin Stan's wonderful build, so if there is interest I will start my own thread.

-Mike
Yes please Mike , start a thread on your 3-D drawings , We need you here. Especially guys like me who are still drawing by pen and napkin.

Welcome to the forum Mike , I look forward to seeing more of your work , looks like you have a lot of talent for 3-D.

Thanks
Arnie
Bell 47 G2

[StanFoster]

Mike- Your 3-d work is awesome. Please feel free to post as many of those in this thread if it pertains to the Helicycle. That just adds more quality!



Heath- I will be looking forward to your SparrowHawk build pictures...but I can fully understand the other duties that come first.


Stan

[dragonflyerthom]

Stan

Looking GOOOOOD. I like what you are doing with the doors. Nice.

[StanFoster]

Tom: The doors and latches are time consuming to get them right. The latch pins holding the half doors dictate the positioning of the latch pins for the full doors. I am shut down on them until Aircraft Spruce gets me that countersink bit I have been waiting on over a week. Maybe I will have it when I get back from Bensen Days.

I sat in it with the doors both in place and it has plenty of side room.

I also am going to refabricate my latch pins as I need to make the part that protrudes through a slot in the plexiglass a little longer...plus I will individually cut them so that each one has the same amount to grab. Some of this stuff just has to be done on the fly.

Stan



Stan

[StanFoster]

Some last minute pre-Bensen Days door fiddling. Its taking me awhile to play a tune on these doors. I am struggling...but getting there. For me....this has been the hardest part of the build messing with these doors. Now that I have some experience....the next set would go much quicker.

My door latches for the full doors for one thing will be remade. After seeing the exact lengths for the protruding handle...and the latch...I will make each one to specs now. I made them off the plans...and they are a tad short....plus I got this idea that I wouldnt be able to grasp them from inside the cabin...and I made a T-handle out of the full door latches. MISTAKE... its easily grasped without my T-handle. So a quick remake, had to anyway because of the length....and this part will be done.


Stan

[StanFoster]

Mike: Do you happen to have a 3d view of the whole Helicycle...or a direct front and side view? I have been trying to get such drawings from the factory...but no response yet.



Stan

[MikeSherman]

Stan,

I'm making my 3D models from pics I find on the internet. They are very roughly scaled since I don't have a physical Helicycle to take actual dimensions from.

I find little bits of info here and there from the internet. The overall frame height, width and length, the blade NACA profile, etc. If detailed dimensions are not available (like 98% of the parts), I simply guess and adjust until it looks good.

If someone would be interested in feeding me dimensions, that would be very helpful. For example, I could use frame tube diameters, skid and hoop diameters, main grip dimensions, etc.

Worked on it a little Saturday.

[StanFoster]

Mike: I will be glad to give you what measurements you need.....however....I dont want to create a monster task for you. Just ask what and where...and I will measure.


Stan

[timdrnec]

Hey Mike,
I have a 4th round ship and have been converting _some_ of the parts into CAD files primarily for manufacturing purposes. Happy to send you what I have and work with you on the rest. A 3D representation of the Helicycle (with dimensions that are accurate...) would be a great help in a variety of ways. What program are you using? What format would be best?

Tim

[StanFoster]

Tim: Once again guys like you and Mike prove what a variety of talented people are on this forum. You guys with your cad experience would be a big help to Eagle R & D with some Helicycle drawings. Feel free to post anything you want pertaining to the Helicycle here in this thread as this thread is showing there is MAJOR interest in this topic just by the overwhelming number of hits its getting.

Stan

[MikeSherman]

Tim,

I've already grabbed what you had available on your website.

Your website updates look great! I really like how clean the control rods came out!

I'm using SolidWorks for the CAD software. It's great software. I've been using it since 1997. I can import just about any file type. For 2D formats, .dwg and dxf are easiest.

These might look familiar to you:

[StanFoster]

Mike or Tim- I have a drawing program called Turbocad that will draw in 3D. I only draw my stairways in 2D but if I could teach myself 3D and my program could draw half as good as yours, I would start making a few sketches myself. I mean, hey I wont be flying it till over a year so I may as well be drawing it. Stan

[StanFoster]

Tom: Thanks so much for sending a CD of Homer Bells 2007 fly-in and the Helicycle factory checkouts. That was nice considering me with my slow dial up......I can look at some real action now!:D

Somehow I will repay you....



Stan

[StanFoster]

Justin- I saw your R44, nice flying you were doing! I of course was focused on the Helicycles and those things really are performers. My not flying till newt year will be worth the wait. I will see you at Homer Bells fly-in, cant wait. Stan

[StanFoster]

Last chance to work on this before Bensen Days. I wanted to get my hinges lined up and accurately installed. I used this method on my SparrowHawk doors. I took a threaded rod between the hinge tabs....jammed nuts on both sides of the hinge ear....and placed it into position with the correct 20.5 inch clearance...and parallel between the ears. I was able to slightly adjust the hinges so they would remain in line...or an an imaginary axle line. Thats what the threaded bolt insures. Also....since I have half doors and full doors that share the same cabin mount....they have to be exact. The threaded rod will be removed when the hinges are bolted on.


Stan

[StanFoster]

Just got back from Bensen Days and fortunately there was a turbine powered Mosquito helicopter there. The engine sounded so sweet and very quiet.


I asked sometime ago if anyone had for sale a Solar T-62 laying around that didnt work. I just want to tear into one.


Otherwise....I have to get my butt back on the Helicycle build. I finally received my countersink bit so in a few days I will start the epoxy and rivet process installing my windows in the half and full doors.


Stan

[Dean_Dolph]

Stan, I wish I could remember what the name was for the adjustable counter sink (probably 'adjustable countersink'!!) but it is the fail safe way to get proper depth and properly centered counter sunk holes. The one I have lets me switch bit sizes, most of which are 100 degree, I believe.

I'm hoping that is what you got since it would make the work go much faster and assure you of the quality that you demand.

[StanFoster]

Dean- Thanks for the reply. I did receive my 100 degree countersink and will get back to work on my Helicycle as soon as I get caught up on my stairways. Thats a lie! I am never caught up, but I will work in some helicopter build time soon. Stan

[Racer]

Stan, Nice job by the way on your build.
I think you have set another record, over 15,000 views so far on this build post and you still have a long way to go. Looks like everyone under the sun is looking over your shoulder as you build.
Thanks for letting us all in your shop to watch you work. Todd

[JEFF TIPTON]

Micro stop counter sink:

http://www.ustool.com/usstore.asp?WCI=wciViewItem&WCE=92079s

[David_Hill]

Stan,

Check out this T62 Solar turbine generator for sale on ebay. I think you said you wanted to get one of these to play with:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T62-Solar-Turbine-Generator-JETEXEC-Rotorway-Helicycle_W0QQitemZ110241366051QQcmdZViewItem?hash =item110241366051

David

[StanFoster]

Racer: Yep...there is a lot of interest! I just started 2 months ago today...and its fast approaching 16000 hits. My SparrowHawk build lasted 5 months exactly and it had 20,400 hits. I have always heard this is mainly a gyrocopter site...but I think there are more helicopter enthusiasts out there than I realize. I get all kinds of e-mails...and several phone calls from lurkers that never post.


Jeff: thats a bit nicer countersink that I ended up with. But mine is doing the job.


David: Nice T-62 you posted...but I just need one that inoperable...something I can wrench apart.


Here are some more door pictures. I bonded and riveted the two half doors late this afternoon. I used Scotch 3M fine line tape to make a sharp break with the epoxy on the glass. I had to take the tape off before the glue set...then I will retape it later when I spray the interior of the doors.


Stan

[Dean_Dolph]

Jeff's contersink is similar to the one I mentioned. I don't know about that one but mine can be adjusted in .001" increments. That is because it is designed to countersink rivets in very thin material.

[JEFF TIPTON]

That one is adjustable in .001 increments. Raise the upper barrel rotate it. It has graduation marks in .001. They can also be had with only half the shoe to allow close up or getting around other obstacles. Most have a sleeve bearing and many of the better ones have ball bearings.

[TomSwatloski]

Stan and the rest of the group watching this thread,

I’m any early Forth Round builder of the Helicycle. I am not building at the same rate as Stan here but I guess I have about 50% of the kit finished with about 75% left to do! Seems like the more you get done, the more there is still left to do.

Any way check out the link below. After the long discussion of the governor and such there are some good pictures of the inside of a T62 engine and gearbox.

http://www.technologie-entwicklung.de/Gasturbines/Solar_T-62/body_solar_t-62.html


Tom Swat
Helicycle Kit 4-05

[StanFoster]

Tom- I want to give you a big welcome to your 1st post on this forum! This Helicycle thread is drawing in more and more helicopter people as it progresses. Thanks for the link you posted. Feel free to comment good or bad about any of my construction methods. I appreciate good advice. If you go back near the beginning of this thread, I stated that my methods arent always going to be the best way but instead are intended to be just an easily accessible chronicological build thread for future Helicycle builders. You will find I post my goof ups along with my successes as this machine gets built. Glad to see you aboard Tom, and I am all open to any advice your experience or chats with other Helicycle builders has given you. Stan

[StanFoster]

Justin: I thought you might know this answer. The T-62 turbines exhaust on the Helicycle is directed to the right. My guess is this is to counter some of the translating tendency that the tail rotor and the torque of the main rotor apply to the fuselage causing it to drift to the right.

Do you know what the thrust of the exhaust is coming out of the T-62? The Mosquitos turbine exhaust goes out into a Y...directing equal amounts left and right. I was talking to the turbine powered Mosquito guy at Bensen Days and he said the exhaust thrust of their turbine is 60 pounds. I wouldnt have thought it was that much but is it really?

Stan

[timdrnec]

Actually its simpler than that. This was quite the discussion a while ago on the builders forum and the answer turns out to be that if the exhaust is pointed to the Left (as one would think might mitigate some of the counter-rotation of the blades...) the TR tends to ingest the turbulent exhaust in forward flight and cause anything from uncomfortable nose twitching to loss of TR effectiveness. If it's pointed Down, it tends to set the field on fire and if it's pointed Up, it's bad for the paint :-). That leaves the exhaust exiting the ship on the right...
I'm not sure what the actual thrust of the engine is but I doubt that it's anywhere near 60#'s...

Tim 4-21

[StanFoster]

Tim and Justin: Thanks for your inputs. I am just freakin inhaling these tidbits of information! I am presently on information overload as I reboot from my R22 lesson today.


Stan

[StanFoster]

The half and full doors are all riveted and bonded.

I have the hinges on the half door and now I just have to use the common hinge pins to align the hinges on the full doors....so that I can interchange them. All the strike plates and hinges have to match between the doors.

Stan

[abe237]

New to this bue need some help from the pros... almost done with a helicycle that had 38hrs on it and a few issues came up. mainly the rotor blade grips may not have bonded correctly. There is a slight bit of space on some edges. Nothing that seems to bother the factory but still mikes out at maybe only .008 seperation and less than .5 deep. has anyone ever had this problem? Any fix?? In 38hrs of flight it has not got any worse but i dont want to find out the hard way it is a serious problem. thanks ahead and by the way i work 5 min from the factory if anyone needs anything.

[akoschier]

Stan,
B.J. was very adamant that the exhaust had to go to the right.
His reasoning was that hot gas going into the tailrotor could trigger hotgas ingestion rotor stall under high pitch with a resulting loss of tailrotot thrust which at the wrong time could be bad news.
He isisted that even on the piston engine the exhaust should go this way.
Its fairly well documented that temperature inlet distortion will cause stall on compressors on highly loaded ones- Firing the gatling gun on the A10 caused engine stalls and flameouts till the gas deflectors were installed and even then there are some do not fire flight conditions.
I assume BJ had some experience which made him make this request.
Some guys int he pilots do not believe this ( BJ is no longer with us and thus cannot yell) and one tried to fly with the exhaust turned the other way claiming some benefits- as far as I know he did switch back though.
avk

[StanFoster]

abe: Hey, welcome to yet another 1st time poster here on the forum. I am enjoying this thread drawing in some helicopter people! If you have any pictures of your Helicycle...I would love to see them.


avk: I am intending on pointing the exhaust where B.J. wants it. I thought maybe it was partially due to offset translating tendency...and I am sure there are some pounds of thrust going to the right that would make a little difference ....but thanks for your explanation of the main reason being about the hot gas ingestion. I am also curious what all is involved in bonding the blade grips. I basically know you have to curve them a little. I am finally on high speed internet...but just havent researched this process as of yet. Can you briefly describe whats involved? Thanks


Stan

[TomSwatloski]

Stan,

I’m half way through bonding my blades right now. I have the bottom of both blades bonded; still have the tops to finish. The process has five steps. Step One is cutting out four doublers for the top and bottom of each blade root. (Tim’s Jet Set parts saved some time here and the quality of the parts is much better than I could do with a band saw.) Step Two is bending the doublers to the same curve as the rotor blade airfoil; bottom has flatter curve than the top! The builder also drills a couple of pilot holes in the doublers and Pillow block. This is mainly for alignment but also helps with the clamping. Step Three is preparing the doublers and blade surface for bonding. Step Four is the actual bonding and clamping. Step Five the builder ships the blades back to the factory for machining and mating to the blade grips. Later the factory ships the blades back and you can complete work on the blades and the rest of the Helicycle.

Oh, the whole point of this process is to add strength to the blade and spread out or distribute the bending loads at the root of the blade.

Tom Swat

[StanFoster]

Tom: You Helicopter guys keep coming out of the woodwork! Thanks for the info on the bonding process. What does it cost to have the doublers water jetted?


Stan

[akoschier]

Stan-
Cutting out the doublers using the material supplied and templets per drawing- or buy some waterjeted parts which are for sale.
Bending them gently over some dowels or other round plugs so they more or less match the contour of the blade surface where they will go. The idea is there to have a nice small bond line when everything is clamped together.
Cleaning them on both sides and etching them.
Mix up some epoxy and glue one side including the grip block.
Use plenty of clamps to keep the parts in place.
Watch the video- it shows it quite clearly.
I used two small pilot holes at the edge to keep pieces lined up.
It can be a bit messy- try to keep things clean befort the bond sets.
As the video says the blade area just next to the doublers is the highest stressed where any scratches have to be avoided.
When you are done, the blades and grips go to Blake for match machining.
Its a fun job- I did mine in the middle of winter and had to built an oven to cure the parts in a marginally heated shop/attic.
avk

[StanFoster]

avk- Thanks again for the info. I have lots of clamps and this process sounds like a lot of fun. So far the build has been very entertaining to me. Now that the helicopter bug has bitten me hard, I cant hardly believe I am building a Helicycle. The helicopter lessons just are motivating me like I never realized. Stan

[akoschier]

Stan,

This is going to be your magic carpet.
You will see.
A buddy of mine said "better than sex"
avk

[StanFoster]

avk: Magic carpet ride... I like that term. I look at this helicopter slowly evolving in my shop...and consider it my sky chariot....someday lifting me off right outside my shop and returning. I dont take this lightly....or for granted.

Anyway....lots to do and learn before this all happens.:twitch:


Stan

[StanFoster]

I am fitting the full door here in these pictures. First the door was retaped as I want my plexiglass spotless. I will be sanding the door frame and painting it. I have it all taped off with fine line tape.

You can see a bunch of blue dots I marked around the perimeter of the door. These marks are an even reveal inside the door opening. I was pleased that the large door matched exactly with the hinge pins that it shares with the half doors.

These doors have been enjoyable to work on...but were very time consuming. All I have is the non hinged side to do now...and then I can put in the windshield.

Stan

[StanFoster]

last pictures showing grinding the perimeter down...and grinding down the rivets on the inside of the door channel. The rivets are in a countersink.

[StanFoster]

My half and full doors are fit to the cabin..all the latches and hinges are done...and I am now starting to fit the front windshield.

These doors were fun to work on...but took a lot longer than I would have guessed. But I cant move on to another area until what I am working on is done.:yo:


Stan

[StanFoster]

Scott Heger just posted a nice link to Turbine Transition Training. Lots of good information about the big no no's on operating the turbines that are in a Jet Ranger.


Hey you T-62 turbine people.....What are the biggest mistakes a pilot can do to a T-62 turbine in starting it up? shutting it down? fuel types? any other thing I should know?

I was saving these questions for when I go to Homer Bells and watch then applied.

Thanks in advance...you guys always come through here.:)


Stan

[brett s]

All my T-62 experience was as CH-47 apu's - a pretty idiot proof installation, the only thing you had manual control of was start fuel. They certainly withstood a ton of abuse!

[StanFoster]

Brett- I know the T62 is tough and forgiving, but I can tear up an anvil if given the chance! I mainly am just wondering what mistake would toast it the quickest, outside of running it on gasoline. Stan

[brett s]

That website Scott posted sums it all up perfectly, fastest way to kill one is overtemp.

In the CH-47 installation it's protected from pretty much everything that can damage it by a bunch of sensors that'll shut it down when triggered - overtemp, overspeed, and low oil pressure for sure. You won't have those in this installation :)

[StanFoster]

Brett or anyone- I am curious about how soon you can start the T62 after shutting it down after a flight, do you wait till the temp gauge is below a certain figure? I would assume this engine has a different set of rules than the 2 stage turbine Scott posted about. Stan

[brett s]

Don't know - in our particular installation there was no limit, in fact there wasn't even a temp gauge.

[StanFoster]

I have the windshield installed and the front lower window now. I scribed an eveal reveal for the windshield screws....and layed out the pattern. I then blue dotted them for drilling through the windshield.

The duct tape held the windshield while I scribed it and ground it to fit.


more pictures to follow

[StanFoster]

Here I am grinding on the windshield. I ground on the downturning side of the disc of course...but the trick was watching the grinding process and making sure the upturning half didnt contact the windshield...cause it could grab and crack it.

[StanFoster]

I am getting close to taking the cabin off to be painted. My Helicycle now has to sit it the little hallway by my newly started curved stairway.


Stan

[gyroman]

I remember a Sparrowhawk sitting over there... good times....

[tyc]

Learning to fly in a R22 will indeed be good training for what to expect in that little helicopter when the time comes.

Best of luck with it!

tyc

[TomSwatloski]

For those wanting to get a look at some flying Helicycles in the western USA there are two meets coming up soon. The first is the third annual Central Sierra Helicopter Meet (CSHM) just west of Yosemite National Park, on 2-4 May. http://www.cshelimeet.com/ The second is the first Helicopter Meet at the West Desert Airpark south west of Salt Lake City, Utah on 13-14 June. (http://www.rmkplanes.com/Heli-Meet.html

Tom Swat

[StanFoster]

Tom: I am wanting to go to the Central Sierra fly-in next year. Looks like a georgous setting plus several Helicycles.


Here are just a few pictures of some layout tape outlining my paint scheme. I am getting the cabin and tail painted late in May.

I am just piddling with the kit now as I am out of parts. My transmission and tail rotor are due in first of June.





Stan

[StanFoster]

This is going to be the layout for my paint job. My tail also will have a matching band on it.


I leveled the helicopter..then used a laser to draw a reference line all around the cabin. I had several sketches what I wanted...but this choice was my favorite.

I will be painting my door frames next....and making an under the seat storage compartment. There is a nice place for two boxes that will go down inside the hull under the seat. It will be a good place to stow away some tools or whatever.


Stan

[StanFoster]

I found a couple more pictures of a Solar T62 turbine for the turbine enthusiasts here.

Also...this is one of my favorite videos of a Helicycle flying. You can link on at...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNuW6Bfx840


Stan

[dimwit]

Stan. I really enjoy watchijng your progress. Your build is of exelent workmanship. Keep up the good work, And I wish you the best

[utahgyrocop]

Hi Stan,

Your build is looking great, can't wait to see the paint job!!!:D

Stay Safe!

[StanFoster]

Dimwit- Thanks for the comments, I really feel my build will be a nice one but not anything above average from what I have seen. There are some exceptionally nice Helicycles out there and many just plain nice ones. So if I end up just with a 'nice' one, I will have met my goal! Heath- thanks also for the comment. I am looking forward also to the paint job late in May. I have put a lot of thought into the paint scheme and am going to keep it clean and simple like my SparrowHawk was. It wont be red however. Stan

[StanFoster]

My Helicycle isnt always in a clean shop as these pictures show. Thats why I have the windows all protected from the dust.

I had to do a lot of routing on the curved stair stringer and thought I would capture my "mess" before I cleaned it up.

Thats why I am adding on a separate room with its own HVAC so my copter will stay clean.

Stan

[StanFoster]

I am deciding on my main color right now. I have it down between one color that is metallic and another that is the same color but non-metallic. Would there be any problem with using metallic paint as far as radio interference ? I thought I had read somewhere that my GPS antennae might not work as well unless it was outside. I had normal paint on my SparrowHawk and thought I should ask before deciding on metallic. Thanks for any suggestions. Stan

[scottessex]

Stan, metallic is actually tiny pieces of mylar film that have been ground up, some did contain some aluminum. But I think that most of the metallic now days is mylar.

[StanFoster]

Scott: Thanks. If it did actually contain metal particles....do you think it would interfere in anyway my incoming radio or GPS signals.

I will see if my paint supplier can tell me whats in the paint.


Stan

[kc0iv]

Scott: Thanks. If it did actually contain metal particles....do you think it would interfere in anyway my incoming radio or GPS signals.

I will see if my paint supplier can tell me whats in the paint.


Stan

Stan,

You might want to read http://www.flight.org/forums/showthread.php?t=326905 they discuss the effects on antennas and metal flake paint.

Leon
(kc0iv)

[StanFoster]

Leon-Thanks for posting that link. It seems white paint can hurt radio signals. If my GPS is weak, I will just mount the antennae outside. Stan

[StanFoster]

I sprayed the door frames this evening. I used this same spray paint on my SparrowHawk. It is black with grey specks...and doesnt reflect at all in the windshield. My whole interior will be this stealth color....When I have another coat or two on...I will clear cote it to waterproof it.


Stan

[Chopper Reid]

Leon-Thanks for posting that link. It seems white paint can hurt radio signals. If my GPS is weak, I will just mount the antennae outside. Stan

Hi Stan, my AV map works inside a metal shed with the doorway some 10 foot away, took a while to get a signal but work it did !! Surprised me no end as my other GPS's wouldnt work anywhere close to a shed.
I'm more impressed with my Av map than ever.

[StanFoster]

Brian- My Avmap also would operate inside of a metal shed. I am putting an Airmap2000 in my Helicycle and I would guess my metallic paint wont matter. Stan

[Chopper Reid]

I'm looking forward to seeing you complete this project Stan!! You are doing a great job there.

[StanFoster]

Today I marked the inside of the windshield...and taped off on the inside of the windshield a border. I spray painted this border and it will now hide the channel the window sits in.

Now that my full and half doors are all fitted and painted....the windshield all fitted and painted....it is time to take the cabin off. I will next prep the inside of the cabin and speckle paint it. I want to get my messy painting done before the exterior of the cabin gets painted.

My painter can do this the end of the month....about when my transmission and tail rotor are due to be shipped.

Stan

[Big Dawg]

Hey Stan ,
I've got a few-hundred projects that I've fallen behind on .Since you have nothing going-on,why don't you come over and help me?
Where on-Earth,do you find the time? You must get at least 3-4 hrs of sleep every night! STILL,I'm lookin' forward to seeing the pictures! Good luck!
Also,just because you don't see my comments very often,does NOT mean that I'm not hiding,and watching. My history teacher once said," I'd rather keep my mouth shut,and be thought of as a fool,than to open it,and leave NO doubt!" BIG DAWG

[StanFoster]

Big Dawg- Hey, I am in bed at 10 and usually get 7 hours of DEEP sleep. I have to be very disciplined with my stairshop time that goes towards my helicopter. If I seem to get a little work done on my chopper, its because I work on it a little at a time- but very steadily! My stairshop income is 100% of the family income and I havfe found that small steady doses of helicopter build time just makes me find ways to maximize my time and actually is a catalyst that gives me a boost building my stairways. Glad you enjoy my build posts and I always pay closer attention to posters as yourself that post very little. I get passionate about whatever I get into and maybe I do talk to much here? Stan

[StanFoster]

I have been busy on getting that dual pair of curved stairways ready to ship.....but have been piddling with finishing my door frames. I bondoed over the rivets....and have been having a struggle figuring how to get these frames to look half way right. Way.....too....much time on them...but really I am out of parts anyway until my transmission/tail rotor come next month.

I painted a border on the inside of my front windshields..but these doors were epoxied to the frames and even though it would have been easier to paint the inside of the door windows as well...I doubted the bond strength.

I will be taking my cabin off soon to let an expert paint it....not me! These door frames and the cabin interior is all I want to do as far as painting.


Stan

[StanFoster]

Its time to kick these two curved stairways out of the nest, and let the Helicycle have its hatchery back.

I am getting ready to take the cabin off and paint the interior....then the cabin and tail feathers will be taken to my painter.

My transmission, driveshaft and tail rotor should be here early June so I can have some parts to chew on.


Stan

[All_In]

I am deciding on my main color right now. I have it down between one color that is metallic and another that is the same color but non-metallic. Would there be any problem with using metallic paint as far as radio interference ? I thought I had read somewhere that my GPS antennae might not work as well unless it was outside. I had normal paint on my SparrowHawk and thought I should ask before deciding on metallic. Thanks for any suggestions. Stan
Some how I missed this.
Yes! I once years ago I painted my antenna to match the plane. The radio shop and friend came by saw it and said I hope that cell coat! Oops, I learned from that!
The radio shop today is not sure what paint has metal in it so they recommend at least testing signal strength inside the cabin, but if you can mount it unpainted outside is best!!!!
Cheers,
John

PS
Those stairs art works of art too.

[StanFoster]

John: My antennae will be outside for the radio. I was just wondering if metallic paint would shield my GPS signal with an internal antennae. I wont know until I try it...and if it doesnt get a good signal...I will mount the antennae outside! :yo:

Stan

[StanFoster]

One thing that is handy is being able to move my Helicycle all through my shop to get it out of harms way. I had 8 guys in the other room taking out the curved stairway and it gets a bit roudy at times. So...I just wheeled it into my table saw room, as there are too many chances to ding its tail feathers in the other room!

My SparrowHawk had to stay in the room I started in because of that tall mast. This thing can go in any of three setup rooms.

Tomorrow the other stairway goes out and the Helicycle can share the big room with just one other curved stairway......until.....I start another one.:whip:

I have been fighting painting a nice perimeter on my full and half doors. I am not proficient at painting and am fighting my anti-painting genetic disorder I have. I am finally getting them the way I want....but the cabin will be painted by a professional.....not even a chance I will try it!


Stan

[StanFoster]

I have been anticipating my transmission and tail rotor being shipped soon...but I found out today that it will be around 2 more months. I have been out of parts for quite awhile, and really am in no hurry to have the cabin painted. Probably will paint the interior soon myself then have the exterior done by my paint guy.

I probably will just go ahead and add on a helicopter room to my shop and have that all done.

I have those two big curved stairways out of the main room...and the helicopter has all the room it needs now. I have three more stairs scheduled to start after I get caught up on the others.


Stan

[StanFoster]

There has been considerable interest in this thread and I am still overwhelmed by the number of hits that has occured. I havent been doing much to it lately as I am waiting on my transmission and tail rotor assembly.

I have been piddling...and piddling....and piddling with finishing painting the perimeter of my half and full doors. I know why I am having my cabin and tail painted by a professional as I fought painting these door perimeters like you wouldnt believe. I would get one painted....then go for one more coat because of some imperfection....then the freaking coat would wrinkle on me for I cant for the life of me know. I would resand it and go for it again. I kept this up the first 1/2 hour in my stairshop....touching up....then resanding...touching up...resanding....then finally one would be done. Then three more! and the same thing all over again.

I FINALLY finished my last door....and now I can focus on painting the interior of my cabin before I have the exterior painted by a pro.

I have my windows all blue taped to keep them dust free...but now that I am done messing with them, I am going to untape them and hang them out of harms way in my shop....letting them gather dust...and just making sure I wash the dust off with water before a finger touches the surface. I am afraid of leaving the blue tape on till next spring. I just wont be handling them. I plan on buying some spray on coating so I can mount the doors and windows on my painted cabin when it gets done.....and not worry about someone running their finger across my window like they did on my SparrowHawk when it was in my shop.:(

I will post some pictures of the doors after I untape them soon.


Stan

[StanFoster]

I removed the blue tape from my half and full doors..and the two windshields. I was getting concerned it may start sticking too hard if I waited a few more months. It all came off ok...but you could tell it was a wise choice to get the tape off.

I wanted to see the doors and windows on for the first time as they will look.

The doors have the black perimeter painted on the exterior to hide the bondoed rivets....the windows I painted a nice border on the inside of the window to hide the channel the window sits in. I did this on my SparrowHawk and I think it gives it a nicer look.

I fought painting the perimeter on those doors...and just refused to go on to anything else until I was satisfied. As I mentioned in previous posts...I am not a painter and I did learn some tedious lessons painting these door perimeters. The windows were a piece of cake...the paint on the inside of the window had a perfect finish. The doors would be just about right...then I would paint one more coat and then I would get some wrinkles in it....requiring me to sand it down and start over. Anyway...finally I finished them and now have the blue tape all removed.

Now before I handle the windows again...I will wash the dust off....and apply some surface protectant film so the plexiglas will stay crystal clear in my dusty shop.

The cabin is coming off next...I will speckle paint it and then send it and the tail feathers off to my painter.

Otherwise I really am waiting on my transmission and tail rotor.

Stan

[animal]

Looking good Stan. enjoy watching your build.
my Falcon is on hold for a bit. saveing for parts still.

[helipaddy]

It looks great Stan,
Is the R22 back from the annual yet? You must be going though withdrawal symptoms by now..
Paddy

[dragonflyerthom]

Looks Good Stan.

I too am daydreaming of another build. Keep up the good work and this thread.

[StanFoster]

Paddy: The R22 is back this coming week.....I would like to resume my lessons next week also. I am at 8.6 hours....and am trying to get two one hour lessons in each week. I am going to solo at 20 hours and its just a matter of time and dollars....:eek:


Justin: I was going to order some protectant from Aircraft Spruce....but forgot today. I believe you posted earlier in this thread a telephone number up in Chicago for this stuff....I will do some digging and see.

Thom: Thanks...glad to see you enjoying your gyro......

For myself...my spare time available for building this helicopter is mainly during the late fall through early spring. I have lots of mowing in my woods around my stairshop....and the home....plus the grandson....that I am booked.

Right now my spare time is being used up on my helicopter training. This has been the best experience of my life outside of family. The more I fly that helicopter...the more absolutely certain I am about my Helicycle.


Stan

[StanFoster]

I have a transmission and tail rotor coming next month and I am back on my Helicycle project to get it painted. My painter came out for one last set of instructions for the exterior which he is going to do. I took the cabin off today and painted the interior with some speckled trunk spray. Its the same I painted my SparrowHawk with...and a charcoal black with paint specs. I dont like reflections in the windows and this is about as stealthy as you can get next to flat black.

I also applied some discoat to my full and half doors...and my main windshield. This puts a nice protective film on my plexiglass so it will be without scratches when I peel it off later. The helicopter gets a good coat of dust on it. I am about ready to add on to my stairshop...and give the Helicycle its own room with separate heat and air so it will be in a more sterile environment.

I wouldnt think of keeping it in my stairshop permanently with a turbine engine getting plugged with dust....and all the electrical and avionics. :eek:


I just emptied that one room of stairways and have three more to build in just that one room...so now is my time to spread out a little while I can.

Stan

[StanFoster]

I finished the interior of my cabin today. I wanted some very subtle dots of paint that matched my burgundy upholstery....and the burgundy color that I am having the exterior painted with.

I sprayed some burgundy paint into the lid.....and took a small artist brush...dipped it and flicked it randomly onto the black. I didnt want much...just some nice little burgundy dots that will make the upholstery blend in. I then used some matte finish clear Krylon paint on the interior of the cabin to seal it from moisture.

My cabin and tail feathers...and control rods will be off to the painters this weekend.

I am anxiously awaiting my transmission and tail rotor coming in August. I will have a little work to do with these...then another long wait till the end of the year. By then I will have my third shipment which is the main rotor....all the instruments and wiring. That will be a perfect winter job. I wont be in any hurry....but I know I will be waiting for that final shipment....the turbine engine. Its coming in April. This has been a lengthy wait...but nothing like the wait if you were wanting to buy a Helicycle now. It would be 2011 before you would get your turbine engine.

I will admit that I am getting anxious for flying my Helicycle....more so that I realized. I didnt realize how much I would be enjoying flying helicopters,...and the more I am learning with my R22 lessons.....the more hooked I am getting. Its almost going off the chart exponentially!

Stan

[StanFoster]

Does anyone know a good source for drills that are .245 to .250 inches in .001 increments? When I get my tail rotor...there is some exact drilling to do that a 1/4 inch bit just wont suffice.


Stan

[MikeSherman]

Stan,

You probably won't find drill bits in .001" increments since they are only good to maybe +-.005.

Take a look at chucking reamers. There you will find .0005" to .001" increments.

-Mike

[Passin' Thru]

Does anyone know a good source for drills that are .245 to .250 inches in .001 increments? When I get my tail rotor...there is some exact drilling to do that a 1/4 inch bit just wont suffice.


Stan
Stan me man, I have no idea why you would need .001 increments. You could get letter sizes "C", .2420, "D", .2460, and reamers .2480, .2490, .2495, and .2500 . I use .2490 and .2495 machine reamers a lot, and of course .2500. I buy them in packs of 10. Let me know if you need such. :yo:

[dennisu]

Passin' Thru

Stan me man, I have no idea why you would need .001 increments. You could get letter sizes "C", .2420, "D", .2460, and reamers .2480, .2490, .2495, and .2500 . I use .2490 and .2495 machine reamers a lot, and of course .2500. I buy them in packs of 10. Let me know if you need such.

The reason we need .001 increments is that our ships use tolerences in that range and finer in some areas. This assures that hardware is "tap fit" and not just "through the hole".

StanFoster

If you check our builders site they are suggesting checking Travers or Rutland to find the reamers.

Dennis Uphill

[Passin' Thru]

I am very familiar with close tolorances and tight fits.
That is why I posed the question about drill bits and offered incremental reamers.:rolleyes:
.

[dennisu]

Passin' Thru

Sorry. Thought you were questioning why he would need such fine increments instead of just using letter and number drills and not need incremental reamers.

Dennis Uphill

[StanFoster]

Passin Thru- I meant to say reamers instead of drills in .001 increments.

Dennis: Thanks...I passed over that post on the builders site.


Stan

[StanFoster]

Two steps forward...and three steps back....:wacko: Thats what it feels like as I am taking it all apart to have the tail feathers and cabin painted...along with the control rods. Pretty soon it will be back in the crate.......:ohwell:


The painter gets these parts tomorrow.

Meanwhile I will be painting my floorpan/seat...my pedals...and installing my top fuel tank. Then I will be awaiting my transmission and tail rotor.

Once those are installed I really wont be doing anything till the end of the year when my third shipment arrives. Rotor blades, instruments and wiring will be my winter project. :D

I was sitting taking a break today...and heard this swooshing...sound. It was a turbine powered spray plane doing his steep turns right over my woods as he was spraying some corn fields. I got all lathered up hearing that turbine sound. Next Friday I will be at Homer Bells fly-in soaking in all the kerosene thats the Helicycles will be burning....and Justin Travis beautiful kerosene burning 500!

Stan

[All_In]

Oh but how exciting to see her painted and you're loving every minute of it way too much anyway.

As to Homer you know what they say?

No picture didn't happen? Videos too please.

[StanFoster]

John; I will take a lot of pictures at Homers and post them here next Sunday when I get back.

Yea...I am really looking forward to flying my Helicycle. My R22 lessons are filling the large voids of time while I am waiting on shipments.

I am not really comfortable saying what I really want to say about flying helicopters....but what I will say is scaled down so that I dont sound like I am drooling...but the more I experience flying one...the more I realize that I am following my passion correctly.:yo: I need Vances literary skills to describe the sensations I get while flying the R22. I am just am enjoying the X Y Z dimensions that the helicopter allows me to experience. Just to hover...then do some "off roading" and set down here...set down there....set down almost anywhere....is just blowing me away. I simply have never had so much enjoyment from a machine.

I will be posting MANY pictures in the future of the various places I will find myself setting down in.

Stan

[All_In]

Awesome, only the whole flying backwards thing just seems wrong though! Looks really fun, but just wrong somehow?

[StanFoster]

I loaded the cabin..tail feathers, and several various plates..control rods and took them to my painter...Mark Stevenson. Mark does all of the wild monster truck painting for Tom Meents who lives in my hometowm of Paxton, Il. Tom has won several world championships ...and actually rolls his trucks on purpose to get the crowd all lathered up ....sells t-shirts...etc. Huge business. Anyway..this is Marks slow time of the year and he is back to basic body fender work.

Mark is a simply a gifted artist with his pen spray gun......and he could paint anything I wanted on my cabin....but its going to be just a simple flared band on the cabin and tail.

The second picture is the parts dropped off with Mark in the background.

Stan

[All_In]

Great Stan, but when finished, PLEASE don't hide this one behind a curtain!!!

[StanFoster]

John: I was having a guess what color my SparrowHawk is....contest. I was just playing with everyone because of the curiosity.

No surprises here....my Helicycle will be Burgundy top and bottom of the cabin....with a flaring middle belt of white. This white belt follows the natural lines in the already white powder coated frame.

The picture shows the blue layout tape where the white belt goes on the cabin and tail. I will also paint the transmission burgundy to match the cabin. The fuel tanks are a mouse grey color...and their color goes real nice with burgundy.

It then will follow through on my tail feathers.

Where the burgundy and white meet....I am going to experiment with some simple striping tape, maybe a purple/black...or violet/black tape. I put a simple narrow black tape on the red/white border on my SparrowHawk and I felt it gave the color breaks a nice border with depth.

The inside is very dark...for no window reflection...and my seats are already upholstered in burgundy/black.

I may paint my instrument panel faceplate burgundy.

I am looking for a decal with a tornado and a mean face in it to place behind the door near the turbine. I found one on the internet that was close....

I am going to Homer Bells next weekend to get some ideas on laying out the various switches etc.

Stan

[StanFoster]

PPfffffewwwwwwwwwww..................... had to blow the dust of this thread! I took my Helicycle cabin, tail feathers, control rods to my painter back in July. I told him no hurry whatsoever....just use this as some filler between your main jobs. I also said I didnt care if it took him all of August or even September...as I am not going to get back on it until my next shipment comes.

Well..this guy is a professional...unlike my block layers...and he called me today saying he is starting on it and would like to have it done this week.

I am logging all my pictures here for my future reference....as its fun to go back and see the machine coming together. My main push will be the shipment that I need around Christmas time...as the winter when I have more free time to work on it.

Here are the cabin halves in the paint booth.....the control rods and msc. stuff.

You should see the artwork this guy does on Tom Meents monster trucks. UNfreekin-believable. I however am going conservative on the paint scheme and it will go with the helicopter.

It definately will be worth using his painting talents. I am no painter and know when to delegate out asignments. This is the one thing I am farming out on this project.

Stan

[All_In]

So much fun for us to watch this come together.
Can't wait to see how she looks!!

[StanFoster]

John: You will have to wait like I am for the "peetering of parts" I am not complaining as I knew this project would be drawn out....its how they keep the costs down by doing production runs of 40 units.....ALL sold out each year.

I had an offer for a considerable amount over what I have in my Helicycle...but I aint stepping out of line now!...not after getting a taste of helicopter flying.

Next summer will be here before we know it...and I have tons of other projects to keep my sanity....:der:

Stan

[All_In]

SAnItY yeah right like either of us are normal, Stan!!!

[StanFoster]

John: Nobody on this forum is normal. Who wants to be? :first:


Stan

[Rick Whittridge]

Stan One thing I have learned about painters is let them do there creative thing as only a artist can see. This might sound out of line to you but you should only do this once , so make it stand out from the rest of the fleet! If this guy is a great airbrush man let him do his thing to make your machine stand out from the NORM! You will be glad you did! Trust me, A stand out paint job does not cost that much more & will if done right with a theme will bring you much attention to your prized machine:first:

[StanFoster]

Rick: I see your point and I know my painter could create anything he wanted on the paint job. But...the Helicycle looks very nice just if it were painted one solid color. I keep coming back to a simple two tone paint scheme that compliments the architecture of the Helicycle in my opinion. I did the same gut feeling method on my SparrowHawk and was very pleased that I had it painted that way.

I have this quirk in me that I want to be able to do the paint job if I wanted to. I could paint the scheme I am having done....its just that my painter will do it better.

A perfect example is having seen Mark Knights beautiful airbrushed rivets he applied to his Air Command. If I had talent like that....I would be doing a wild paint job....but I dont...so it will be more of a conservative tone.

The Helicycle looks beautiful to the ear...and nose anyway. Just close your eyes and its very colorful!


Stan

[TomSwatloski]

Stan,
You might want to save painting for last on your Helicycle. In the construction the ship comes apart and goes back together many times. Mainly for trial fitting of different parts and whole systems. I picked the factory powder coated frame option and I’ve beat that powder up bad in many places on the frame. If I had it to do over again I would probably just primer the frame and paint the gear boxes when I received them. Mainly to prevent rust and corrosion from getting a start during the build. After everything is ready to go together for the last time, then I’d paint it.

Tom Swat
(Kit 4-05)
Waiting for the garage to cool off. 107 was the high yesterday, garage 97!

[All_In]

Good idea Tom, but I thought Stan was having just the body parts painted?
I don't think he took the frame to him, I didn't see it in the pictures.

PS:
It's Sunny and 72 inside the house with the windows open and 54% humidity right now here.

[StanFoster]

Justin: You said is so well and with brevity! Your machine is one classy looking helicopter.....and when you break it down....you have basically a gloss black paint job with that strategically placed striping that looks all so cool. K I S S.....does work many a time.


I want to break up my tapered white belt that will go diagonally up through the middle of the cabin...on through to the tail.....with some nice black/purple striping at the paint break. I think I have a good eye for color...and I will buy several samples of colors and stripe combinations...and get the one that catches my eye.

I also know a graphics designer that could make anything I want to go on the copter.

Stan

[scottessex]

Stan check out some of these colors. (Left side of page)

http://www.tcpglobal.com/kustomshop/

Or just in case you have not seen enough cool paintjobs...http://www.gotpaint.com/

[All_In]

Scott Sweet!!!!!!

[Arnie Madsen]

Justin:
Several times I have wanted to compliment you on your new paint. If you recall , I was one of the people who tried to talk you out of any vertical stripes on the streamlined Hughes 500 body.... well (ahem) ... you were right .... it looks excellent. To my surprise I also really like it in black as well.

I followed your restoration on the other forum , and as a refinisher I know how much work is involved and admire your talents.

Arnie

...................
For anyone who is not familiar with Justin's former Rotorway here is a picture. It is still one of my favorite paint schemes. He has the turbine mounted above the fuselage and then "blacked out" the doghouse which highlights the teardrop fuselage of the Rotorway. This is a good example of using a color scheme to best suit the design of an aircraft.

[StanFoster]

Scott: Thanks for the link.....I already have my colors picked out. My upholstery is done...and I have a certain color of burgundy that is my favorite. Cardinal Red is the color...but its burgundy in my book.

Anyway....nothing like seeing it on a car...and checking it out in bright and low light to verify its what I want. This is much better than a paint splotch to go by.


,....My painter is going to spray a sample and show me for my approval.


Even if I had my next shipment right now...I have 4 months before the next one...so I am in no hurry. Any spare time will be building my room addition this fall.



Arnie: Thats a nice picture you posted of Justins Rotorway. Justin has the eye dont he?

Stan

[StanFoster]

My painter called late this morning and said my cabin and tail feathers were done. I went in and was extremely pleased with his work. He wants to buff it all out next year right before I fly it...instead of now. I brought all the parts to my shop..and just had to assemble it.


I am going to put some contrasting paint stripes on the burgundy/white border....maybe a black and purple or violet.

My wife absolutely loves it..

Stan

[animal]

what a crappy paint job.... just kidding Stan that looks sharp! I like it, the pin stripping will really set it off.

that is going to be a sweet helicopter for sure.

What type paint did he use?

I still have not even given much thought to my paint job yet.
but guess I need to as I am getting closer to that point.

[All_In]

Sweet!!!!

That's one good looking Helicycle!!!

You've have got to be excited to see it together and painted. Heck so am I!!!!

[All_In]

what a crappy paint job.... just kidding Stan that looks sharp! I like it, the pin stripping will really set it off.

that is going to be a sweet helicopter for sure.

What type paint did he use?

I still have not even given much thought to my paint job yet.
but guess I need to as I am getting closer to that point.That's good news! Tim more pictures please!

[JEFF TIPTON]

I definitely like the paint scheme. Simple but definitely an eye catcher.

[StanFoster]

Thanks guys.....

The windows have a protective coating on them..but you can see where I painted the inside of the window to hide the window lip on the cabin.


I fit the window to the cabin first...then took a marker along the cabin lip on the inside of the windshield. I then took the window out and blue taped off the window on the inside. I had to make sure that this black belt was a uniform width....and that took some adjusting of the blue tape...plus some scribing on the outside edge of the window itself. I then sprayed the inside of the window gloss black. It hides the cabin channel....and makes a nice border around the windows. I am going to carry this black into my striping to tie this all together.


The one picture shows the custom upholstery I had Eagle R & D make up...and it has their nice logo on it. Its just sitting there loose in the cabin, for pictures.

I also changed my mind on the color of the floor/seat pan. I was going to paint it dark like the cabin interior to stop any window reflection. But after looking how my burgundy seat cover goes with the white...and it follows the outside paint colors...I am glad I didnt paint it. If down the road I see annoying window reflections...I will paint it then. But I really dont think it will show. I absolutely will paint the instrument pod dark..as the top of it will really reflect into the windshield.

Stan

[skier]

nice looking paint scheme you have. The seat also looks nice.

[StanFoster]

After I landed the R22 next to my stairshop....my daughter Jennifer...aka....gyroJenny was fitting a new carseat for her son , Colton...aka...my grandson Colton....in my Helicycle.

The big guy is my son Jeff.

[StanFoster]

My pinstriping tape arrived..so I went out early to my shop and applied it.

It is black and charcoal gray...and ties in the black I have around the windows and my gray fuel tanks. The pictures dont show it very well..but does it ever make a difference when I looked at one area that was done..and another area that was. I always like putting black right on the juncture between paint colors..in my case..burgundy/white. It just gives it depth .

Stan

[All_In]

Now that's what I'm talk'n about!!

The striping really sets it off and perfect colors.

[Timchick]

Stan,
Sweet looking paint job!

[StanFoster]

I have been obsessed with tying in the tornado that destroyed my stairshop in 2004 with my Helicycle.

Without having had that tornado rip out the 'hole' in my wooda, and messing up what was a pristine acreage, I would have never cut out a channel just to fly from my shop.

Having seen from the air so many times what a knarled twisted up mess it was...and the same from my ground excursions...I had the channel cleared out this year.

I have been thinking of this tornado theme for months....and it just came to me that the tornado is very symbolic of the what a turbine engine does to all the air it intakes, compresses and turns into a 61500 rpm whirlwind.

I had this decal made with a mean scouring face as my Helicycle will be spitting back at nature just what she dealt me in 2004.:p:peace:

I am not done with it. I may add a little contrasting grey dust cloud or small swirls to match my gray in the pinstripe.

Stan

[scottessex]

COOL I love it Stan...the evil little vortex. Way cool!:peace:

[StanFoster]

Scott and Justin: I am glad you guys like it... Everyone has a quirk that they are passionate about..and this tornado fits in my mind perfectly for the reasons I described.

Stan

[scottessex]

Now that it is painted, it is 'Black Betty' after the song that so appropriately came on the radio day I was painting it!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtqjmuUaYXA
This one? looks like our own Automan1223 (Jonathan) has been moonlighting as a singer/drummer. :D

[Dave Martin]

I love the tornado idea Stan! That baby sure is looking nice. I hope you have it done by the time Mentone rolls around next year. Can't wait to see it in person!

[StanFoster]

Dave: Thanks. I hope to have it done also and fly it to Mentone 2009. I must have parts and shipped on time. That is the deal with a Helicycle...I am fortunate to have been able to get into the 2007 production run...but its long waits between shipments.

Everyone that is flying a Helicycle has told me it is worth the wait. I know it will be, but I will be glad when I hear it finally run next year.


This tornado theme came from a gut feeling. Without the tornado...I would have never even considered chopping a channel so I could actually fly from my stairshop and future home site.



Stan

[animal]

I like it Stan. gonna be a mean little twister huh?

when I designed and built the TH-135 Dusty2, I had a little dust devil design for it stiring up a dust cloud.

[All_In]

Oh, that makes it all come together!!!!

I love the little devil! Gives it that bad boy look even saints wish to have.

It looks better on your helicycle than even your description of it in my imagination!!!!
That does not happen very often, Stan, great job!!

[StanFoster]

John: Speaking of little devil, I was out in my chopper channel seeding it down yesterday and there were little dust devils all over, like they were trying to get their last word in.


The biggest dust devil occured the day I flew in there with the R22! I stayed at high hover and talk about being able to see your downwash. I could see the downwash in front of the chopper going out in front of me and then curling up towards the sky.

Once my grass/clover/alfalfa mix starts growing, this will stop the dust. Then the deer will have some munchies next year.

Stan

[StanFoster]

Can someone explain to me what it is about a dusty windshield that makes people drag their paws across it? I built my SparrowHawk in a dusty environment as I am my Helicycle. I knew that as long as the windshields werent touched...it would be fine. While I had my SparrowHawk in my shop...it was coated in a nice layer of dust...and a friend stopped by, gravitated over to my gyro as is typical, and drug his nose picker right across my windshield. I am usually very mild mannered..but that is a pet pieve of mine with a very short string to my Mad switch. I snapped at him..."Now why did you do that? Do you know what that does to my windshield?

Fast forward to this year and a little more smarts between my ears. I applied a layer of Discoat 4220 to both sides of my windshields...doors also. This stuff peals off like thin saran wrap when I am ready to final clean it.

Well, just yesterday another friend stopped by...gravitated over to my Helicycle...stared at it...and then had a dumb moment and drug his paw right across the windshield. I commented..."Why dont you just write your name on it? I told him that was a pet pieve of mine...but not to worry as I had spent $50 on coating the windshield , as I knew people cant resist doing that for some unknown reason to me.

Stan

[Timchick]

It's probably like someone touching wet paint to see if it's wet.

[StanFoster]

I have been waiting on my 2nd shipment for my Helicycle which is the transmission/tail rotor/tail rotor drive shaft. Any Helicycle builder can attest that every shipment gets delays. I just received word that my 2nd shipment is several weeks out yet do to some employee absenses and bearing acquisitions. They are however working on shipment number 3 which is still due out by the end of the year.

This really doesnt matter to me as I will be focused on getting my heli-hanger constructed the next two months. I do want some parts this winter to work on however so I can stay on schedule.

I really wont be delayed with this 2nd shipment being much later as there really isnt a lot of work involved with it. But....my shipment by the end of the year is the shipment that will get me all wired..instruments..etc...rotor blades. Thats the shipment I need to be on time for me to reach my goal of flying to Mentone 2009. They are saying still an April/May shipment for my turbine. If these last two shipments are within a month of that...I will be flying to Mentone next year. Time will tell.

Whenever it does come....I am fortunate I am in the system and the wait will be worth it.

Stan

[All_In]

I have no clue why folks have to scratch a $10,000.00 paint jobs on aircraft by showing us it's dusty?

This whole waiting thing sucks!

[utahgyrocop]

Stan,

I've been away for a while. Your project looks incredible.:D I am so envious. Keep up the good work.

[route66]

Stan, I saw this Helicycle at Copperstate this last weekend and thought you might like to see how the owner added long range tanks. He does not use the original top tank and made it into a storage box. The other modification I saw he moved the fuel filter out for easier access. He flew the heck out of it and gave a good show.

[animal]

Brandon, did you get any pics of that Safari in the back ground?

those are some cool tanks.

[StanFoster]

Brandon: Thanks for that picture of that Helicycle. I am anxious to get started back on mine....but my 2nd shipment has been delayed again. I was told it will be shipped in a few weeks. Whenever I get going on it again....it will be worth the wait.


I gave up on getting my tail rotor....so I just decided to make my machine into a brush cutter. DeWalt gave me some new blades...so I stuck one on my tail rotor.

Stan

[utahgyrocop]

Stan,

Your project looks incredible. :D Keep up the good work. How goes the Dewalt competition?

Stay safe.

[Paul Salmon, MD]

Hey Stan,
Don't know how much helo time you have so far but if you want to get some cheap dual, I have a brantly that I'll give you some dual in for the price of the fuel. (about $80/hr.) I'm down in Cape girardeau, MO- not too far away! Let me know.

Paul Salmon

[StanFoster]

Paul: Thanks for the offer. I am down to my three hours of pre-checkride training that is mandatory. Otherwise...I have my 10 hours solo done... 3 hour night time...my 75 mile solo cross country. I will be taking my check ride soon. I am looking forward to achieving this helicopter rating goal. :peace:

Stan

[Paul Salmon, MD]

Consider it an open invitation. Always good to fly several different aircraft, it helps your overall perception of that category of aircraft.

[StanFoster]

I received some good news today. My 2nd Helicycle shipment is crated and should arrive at my place in 10 days.

I havent had a second of spare time to have worked on it the last two months anyway....so the delay fit my schedule. Now that I have this contest out of the way...and my Helihanger back on my work load... I am starting to think about working on my chopper again. My Helihanger is all roofed now...and soon I will have time to wire it...insulate it and get it drywalled. The heat I am having done. So I should be able to move my Helicopter out to the new room in January. Meanwhile, I can roll it around in my shop and work on it.

Stay tuned for another barrage of build pictures in a few weeks.


Stan

[animal]

Well it's about time.. :)

so what is included with this shipment?

looking forward to the build pics.

[StanFoster]

Tim: I will be receiving the transmission. tail rotor with gear box, and the tail rotor drive shaft. It really wont be a whole lot of work....my main shipment is the next one after this which is delayed but should be here by Feb. If thats the case...I should still be able to get most of it done before the turbine arrives in the spring. I am at their mercy as I spend most of my time waiting. I guess I could always build some stairs between shipments!

Stan

[StanFoster]

I imagine everyone will be glad when I get off that DeWakt tipic...I know I will be....and getting back on this Helicycle. My 2nd shipment arrived today. Inside the box was a beautififully built transmission....tail rotor all assembled..tail rotor gearbox...drive shaft parts...and all the accessories to give me something to chew on for awhile. I am taking a break as I wind down from the DeWalt competition...but I still need to work on the interior of the Heli-hanger.

I will have all kinds of time as the next Helicycle shipment isnt due till up in Feb...and then the rotor blades are coming later. Their main CNC operator is gone...and they are actively seeking his replacement. The company is a very good company and orders are filled...its just they are behind.

I seriously doubt I will have it flying by Mentone...but thats ok.....after having learn to fly helicopters...I just have a lot more patience ...it will be worth the wait.

Here are some pictures of the box...then what was inside it.

Stan

[StanFoster]

last pictures

[animal]

Stan, very nice. looking forward to seeing more of your build. man those parts are top notch.

[Dirtydog]

Hey at least it not one that you blow up Stan! Great build guy!

[CLS447]

It's about time ,Stan ! How much work will this give you to do now?

What parts are next ?

[StanFoster]

Chris: Not too many weeks. I will be waiting a long time again...so before I get going on these new parts...I think I will concentrate on getting the Heli-hanger caught up...and oh yea...I have my helicopter check ride coming anytime ...as soon as I get scheduled.

Stan

[asmuzsr]

Oooooo Stan I'm so jealous. I've got till next Christmas before I can get another machine. I'm am going to California in 2 weeks and plan on seeing Jerry Barnet one of the days while we're there. Hopefully I'll get to see the Coupe and a J4b2. Would like to fly them also but I don't know what he has available. Will just have to wait and see.

[PR_Arecibo_DC]

Hey, Stan looking good... I cant wait to see your heli lifting up the ground... By the way the paint job looks really nice...
I finally decide and considering my weight issue... I will be buying in the next few days a Mosquito XET (with the T-62 Turbine)... I will be finishing here in Iraq by the end of next June, for good!!! and as soon I get it I will start posting some pictures...

Good luck and be safe....oh by the way... send some of that snow here...we need it...

Jose

[docstafford]

Stan,
I'm a newbee to rotary wing forum. Have been flying and own a cessna 172 with 500+ hours with instrument rating, currently training in R-22. Have been looking at mosquito XET versus Helicycle. What made you decide on the helicycle? Did you look at the mosquito? Both machines looking great. I'm a light weight < 160 lbs so weight is not a factor for me. I have had several discussions with the designer of the mosquito and the company seems top notch. My problems, of course like you is I'll want to fly so will have to rent time in R-22. Flying my airplane has now seemed a little more boring.
I wonder if there is a separate forum for builders of particular designs, say a helicycle forum or mosquito forum?
Oh, bye the way I received my new Garmin 696 the other day. Gads, what a nice machine!
Cheers, all
Bruce Stafford, aka docstafford
Family medicine doc in Oklahoma

[CLS447]

What are the longest X country flights for the Mosquito vs. Helicycle ?

[StanFoster]

Bruce; I have been interested in the Helicycle ever since the turbine installation came out. I made myself give it 5 years, and I did just that. I also talked to several that flew these nice machines to find out what troubles they are having. Everyone loved the machine. So when I had an opportunity to cash out well on my SparrowHawk, my decision to buy one was easy.

I am a very patient person...but my patience had to be retrained to another level as I wait for shipments of parts.

But then everytime I fly the R22, I relax and know the wait will be worth it.

I way underestimated the feeling of having the extra dimension of being able to take off and land practically anywhere I want......flying the R22 made me realize how much I love that extra freedom of non movement.

The Helicycle main rotor bearing wont be shipped until the owner has soloed in an R22. I would have been stupid after spending the money to get soloed to not go ahead and finish my helicopter rating. I am one lesson away from being signed off for my checkride.

The range on the Helicycle is 160 miles. I dont know what the Mosquito is but I know its nothing near that.

There is a Helicycle builders group that is a very nice site. To log in , you have to have ordered a Helicycle. There is also a Helicycle flyers site...and all you have to do to log in is fly your Helicycle. I am not there yet of course!



Stan

[StanFoster]

I was on the fence for sometime deciding whether to paint my main rotor blades, tail rotor, and drive shaft...or just polish them. After receiving my tail rotor...I like the looks of polished...with maybe a color band on the tips for better visibility. Also...I have read on the Helicycle forum a few comments from guys wishing they hadnt painted their blades. They look great for awhile...then the paint starts wearing off...then the balance changes...and its a pain in the butt taking it all off.

Also after seeing a nice set of polished rotor blades...I really like them. I know if you keep after it they arent that bad to maintain the polish. Kit Planes had an excellent article early this year on polishing aluminum and keeping it nice. I would think I could catch any cracks sooner also with polished aluminum.

My SparrowHawk frame was painted black and I really had to study it closely looking for cracks etc. Thats one reason I had my Helicycle frame powder coated white. I will be able to find any flaws much easier with the white color.

I am going to get going in January installing my transmision, tail rotor and driveshaft. I am not pressed very hard as I will be waiting for the 3rd shipment. I am getting ready to wire my hanger add on...and will then insulate and drywall it. Once the walls are painted...the rest of the Helicyle construction will be in a dust free environment.

Looking forward to flying it...but its going to take awhile.

Stan

[animal]

polished...with maybe a color band on the tips for better visibility. Also...I have read on the Helicycle forum a few comments from guys wishing they hadnt painted their blades. They look great for awhile...then the paint starts wearing off...then the balance changes...and its a pain in the butt taking it all off.

Stan Stan I think you will be happier with them polished. I had a buddy had an Exec with painted blades, the paint eroded off the leading edge and really made it look crappy.

I am heading out to my shop shortly to try and do some work on the Falcon some today. it is Rainy, but a bit over 60 here today,so a good day to work in the shop.

[Minnesota_Mike]

This is really a fantastic thread...Stan's true "craftsman" nature is clearly evident in every photo post...I can really relate and do appreciate seeing all of his working techniques.
Thank You Stan for all the great photos and the painstaking detials you document here. You'll have one heck of a compilation CD when your finsihed.
Mike

[StanFoster]

Mike: Thanks for the comment on this thread. I post a lot of my thoughts..not showing what I know..but rather instigating helpful conversation feedback so I can make more correct decisions. I learn a lot by asking questions...and this thread is no exception.

Painting metal is something I am only good enough at to try on my lawn mower or dads plow. I have seen far too many aircraft built by the owner...and very well done...then they ruin it with a substandard paint job. I have no problem saying I built my Helicycle...but Mark Stevenson was hired to paint it.

I have talked to guys with polished blade who love them..but Justin makes a good point. I will be checking into doing the black painting on the bottom...but I have to be convinced it will stay on there and not throw the balance off.

Stan

[StanFoster]

I decided to work on the hatchery....my heli-hanger...and get that completely finished...then start back in on my Helicycle.

Last week I put in the roll up door. I just finished the wiring....I am insulating the walls tomorrow....scratch ...itch...itch...:cool:

then the drywall is being delivered next week. I have a crew thats coming in to rock it...tape it ...and then spray paint it. I will trim out my two windows...then move the Helicycle out into its dust free....heated and airconditioned environment. I decided to get its new home finished...then I will start back in and work steadily on it.

Stan

[CLS447]

Sounds good ,Stan.

Can't wait for more HELICYCLE !

[Dirtydog]

Where are the pictures at? I have not seen any updates in a while the the Hat.
:violin:

[StanFoster]

Chris- I have been too busy catching my breath from other projects. I did receive my 2nd shipment of Helicycle parts which included the transmission, tail rotor....tail rotor gearbox and drive shaft.

I am finishing my helihanger, then will move the Helicycle out there and will get back on it with a passion. If I start on it now....the hanger would be on hold....so I need to get it out into its clean environment.

Stan

[docstafford]

Stan,
I've been flying fixed wing for over 20 years and have about 8 hours in the R-22. I want to get my rotorwing rating before tackling a helicycle kit. How many hours did you have in the r-22 before soloing? I was hover taxiing out for a take off the other day and bouncing all over the place. I made a comment to my instructor that I thought I could hear the guys in the tower laughing at my performance. I felt like a complete idiot. Geez, just the engine start up procedure is nerve wracking.
Bruce Stafford - now taking a sabbatical from that madness we call "managed care"

[StanFoster]

Doc- Sorry I took so long to answer your question. I just now read it.

You have to have 20 hours minimum to solo in an R22. My instructor let me solo at 20.0 hours. Here is the return of my solo flight on Aug 13th.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOQPxpP9KNs&feature=channel_page


Flying the R22 is the biggest mechanical pleasure I have experienced. It is a rush being able to have that third dimension of being able to land and takeoff almost anywhere.

Also...most helicopter pilots say the R22 is one of the hardest to learn to fly. The Helicycle company holds back a rotorhead part until you solo in an R22. Everyone that I have talked to that flies a Helicycle says the Helicycle is much easier to fly.

Stan


Stan

[StanFoster]

I had some guys stopping by my shop today....they were wanting to look at my Helicycle. Before they came I placed the tail rotor on the frame where the main rotor goes.

I had to watch their reaction. One guy goes..."Man, is that all the bigger your rotor is? I said...."It turns really fast!" I had to laugh as they looked so shocked.

I told them it was my tail rotor....and then they looked relieved. :yo:


Stan

[StanFoster]

Its time for the Helicycle to get out of my stairshop! I have two 180 degree stairways going...and a third one that will be built where the new plywood is on the floor. My Heli-hanger will soon be painted...and it will get out of this dusty and accident prone environment! I will be starting in with installing the transmission and tail rotor gearbox. Then the tail rotor and drive shaft.

Stan

[animal]

Yes I agree Stan, it does need to be moved to safety. to easy to have something scratch it. I had a guy and his wife came buy my shop tonight and by all my spare harley parts,and the whole time I was like saying watch the gyro,watch the gyro. on a good note I got enough from the parts to buy that Aerocarb that I want for my Gyro. once I get the carb I will be in the home stretch for starting the engine. woo hoo!

looking forward to seeing ya get the helicycle in it's new hanger where you can get back to working on it.

[StanFoster]

I nioticed in my builders log that I havent touched my Helicycle...except to maneuver it out of the way in my stairshop....since August 22. That was because I was waiting and waiting for my 2nd shipment of parts. Then I got so busy with stairs and that Dewalt contest, my R22 lessons...and my Heli-hanger build that for the first time in my life...I told my wife "I have bit off more than I can chew this fall" I finally received my 2nd shipment of Helicycle parts...but drew a line in the sand, and refused to touch it until the heli-hanger is all painted and trimmed out.

Well, I am finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. My helicopter checkride is coming any day now, I am painting my heli-hanger walls and ceiling now....and after I get back from Daytona...I will roll the Heli-cycle out there and resume a steady pace once again of seeing parts being steadlily added to the copter. MY 3rd shipment is supposed to be here this month.,..but I will believe that when I see it. I am looking forward to resuming the build....and I really enjoy the build part a lot. I built my SparrowHawk in exactly 5 months working part-time on it while keeping all my stair projects on schedule. After I pulled the SparrowHawk out of the shop....I had builders withdrawal. I kind of missed having it in the shop.

I will not have withdrawal this time as soon as the Heli-cycle is finished...it will be flying and will end up hovering at the shop...and right back inside each night.

I will resume build pictures later this month.....as I love watching all the other projects that are posted here on the forum. All are interesting in my book as each person goes at it differently...but all find a way to get their mission accomplished.

Stan

[Joe Pires]

Hey Stan, when you coming to Daytona? I am not at all far from there if you would have a day or evening when you want a diversion. PM me if you want my phone number, I would love to show you my part of the world.

[StanFoster]

Joe- We are flying into Orlando on Friday, the 13th, then my son Jeff and his wife are going to go to the Saturday race while I am planning on visiting the Space Center on Saturday . The shuttle is scheduled to lift off on the 12th, but I hope it is delayed until the 14th. I have always dreamed of seeing and feeling a shuttle launch. Not many flights left for it unfortunately. If you want to chum around on Saturday that would be cool. Sunday the 15th we will be at the Daytona 500 thanks to DeWalt Tools! Stan

[StanFoster]

Things are going to start happening again. I finished painting last night...swept and washed the floor...installed a few cabinets...but the biggest accomplishment today was getting my Helicycle out in its new room where its dust free.

I will resume work on it later next week. I havent touched it since Aug 22. I just had too much going on and since I was waiting on parts....I decided to get this room done.

I will be installing the transmission, tail rotor gearbox...tail rotor...and tail rotoro driveshaft in the next several weeks.

My third shipment is coming the end of March....so I should be steadily working on this now.

Stan

[Mike484]

Bet she feels better now, I'm sure all of those saws and drills running in the same room probably scared the hell out of her. Good job Stan.

[StanFoster]

This is my DeWalt corner....I have to make some extension jambs, shelf and trim the window out.

The other pictures is a matching cabinet next to my visitors lounge.

I have several cabinets and shelving to put in yet....and the walls will have large pictures from flying someday.


Stan

[animal]

Looks good Stan, looking forward to seeing you back on the build.

won't be long and it's really going to look like a helicopter.

btw what shipment will the main blades be?

[All_In]

Yaw Mon!!!
Now that's a Helicycle HANGER!!!!:whoo:

We've been wait'n!!!!!
SWEET!!:first:

[StanFoster]

Tim- My rotor blades are in the next shipment, along with all the instrumentation. The forth and last shipment is the TURBINE!

Now that I see parts coming, I am getting all lathered up.


Stan

[StanFoster]

Now that I am getting back in the build saddle...I am refreshing my memory on previous choices. Here is the GPS that I will desing my instrument panel around. Its a GeoPilot11....and it is able to have XM weather should I want to subscribe to it. I like the buttons, and would not want a touch screen as that would be too touchy in my opinion while trying to fly a helicopter.

I am looking forward to the rest of the build very much...and I wont be pressured to make Mentone this year. So,,,from now on, just more continual progress.

http://www.aviationlogs.com/PilotShop/proddetail.asp?prod=AVMAP-GEOIIPlus


Stan

[StanFoster]

The first thing I had to do was get the tornado with an attitude decal applied to the right side of the cabin. I had ordered it , but it came in reversed image, and this was when I was just waiting on past last August.

That tornado fits the theme of my build perfectly, since my shop was destroyed by one in 2004 and a straight line winds hit me again in 2005 doing the same amount of damage. That tornado fits the airflow going on inside that turbine engine that will be fired up later this year.


So, its minor but its a start back on my build. More serious transmission and tail rotor wok coming soon,


Stan

[Friendly]

Stan,
I saw a Heli featured in the Sport Avation Mag today. It is owned by Milton Huhta and also a Safari Heli, by Michael Smolek. I don't know if they post here or not.

[StanFoster]

Mark- Several Helicycle guys lurk here...but never post. A few mostly lurk with an occasional post. I of course post a lot....,maybe too much.:yo:

But I am going to be ramping up my progress on will post lots of pictures till shes flying.....then it will be a new thread.


Stan

[All_In]

That a Hanger!! But where is the DeWalt Banner?

[StanFoster]

I bought a DVD player to watch all the Helicycle videos. Here is a picture of all of them. B.J. Schramm is the narrator in these and can be seen pointing out some details on the transmission segment I was watching. This DVD player makes it a lot handier to watch.

I will be final installing the top fuel tank next...in preparation for installing the main transmission. I plan on getting a few hours after work tomorrow. It will be nice to get back in the build groove again.

In the last picture you can see the top fuel tank. Thats what I will be focusing on, cleaning it out...installing the o-ring mounting bolts, and if everything is done correctly....it wont leak. :suspicious:

Stan

[Renard Rudy]

I'm from belgium and I would like to have some information about the helicyle before to buy it ?????
Do you know poeple from Europe who have also it ????

[StanFoster]

I started putting the transmission in tonight. I felt good to finally get back into the build mode.

Here are some pictures of the installation and alignment methods I used.

Renard- I cant help you on any Helicycles around your area.


Stan

[StanFoster]

One of the big reasons I held off on my build...was to get that room addition done so I could get the Helicycle out of my dusty stairshop. I dont want bearings getting all loaded up and the whole machine a dust bowl.

The first picture is the hood bearing. There are 12 grease zerks on this machine.


The last two picures show a fishing line I have strung from the centerline of the transmission to the exact centerline of the tail.

There are two bolts on the frame for the transmission to align laterally. The transmission pivots on one predrillled bolt...while the transmission is purposely set out of alignment. This is to allow for the 400 foot pounds of torque going to the rotor. The rotor turns CCW...so the transmission tries to turn CW. The setup instructions are to preset the alignment CCW 1/4 inch in 44 inches. The torque applied will then cause the tail rotor shaft to run true. If the transmission were set up dead straight statically....the torque when flying would then cause the tailrotor shaft to be flexing each revolution...shortening its life.

I am really impressed with the attention to detail this kit has provided.

[StanFoster]

To get the transmission pretensioned CCW, I had a weld slightly in the way preventing the transmission from moving off center the required amount. I marked it than got the dremel tool out and ground away. I did a little at a time until my the alignment was 1/4 inch out of parallel withe the centrerline to the rear tailrrotor shaft bearing.

The straight edge confirmes the alignment offset was to specs.

[StanFoster]

Once the tail rotor shaft alignment was done...next came the main rotor shaft alignment. Basically...the shaft going up through the hood bearing should be in a relaxed state......not forced to to through the hood bearing. This also shortens the life by continuous flexing that is unnecessary. The kit is supplied with extra thin shim washers which I used three to get it just right.


The next to the last picture shows my initial main shaft after the transmission bolts were tightened. You can see the main shaft is clearly misaligned to the right. So, I placed some one shim at a time lowering the left side of the transmission. After three washers were put in...it was perfect. The hood bearing drops right in without any side pressure on the main shaft.

I feel good that these criitical steps are done.

Stan

[All_In]

Now; that's what I'm talk'n about!

Very exciting we're building again, love the pictures and building instructions too.

That thing really is a SWEET machine.

You do great work in all you do!!

[animal]

Great pic's Stan, glad to see ya back on it. man that is going to be a Nice machine when done.Enjoying the build and seeing how the machine goes together.

I am still on hold waiting for my Carb.it is still on back order.

[StanFoster]

Tim and John, thanks! I will just keep chipping away now that my 3rd shipment will be here soon. I have enogh parts to keep me busy till then. That was another reason I didnt start back in on it when I received my 2nd shipment, I would have been caught up and waiting for my 3rd shipment anyway. Anyone wanting to build one of these just has to learn to chill out while waiting for shipments. Stan

[StanFoster]

Now that the tranny is in...you can see the built in tilt the rotor mast has in the first picture. This will offset most of the translating tendency from the tail rotor. The main rotor turns CCW, the fuselage tries to turn CW, the tail rotor pushes to the right at the tail...causing translating tendency..or drifting to the right. Now that the rotor disc has a built in tilt...this pull to the left will minimize the translating tendency to the right. There is also the torque trying to turn the nose to the right...so this all gets taken care of with a little mast tilt of about 1.5 degees.

The second picture shows the holes for the main shaft bearing.

The third picture is the bearing holder all drilled.

The fourth picture is where I am shimming this bearing so it is perpendicular to the main shaft.

The last picture shows a feeler gage between the bearing housing and an aluminum spacer that fits the shaft snugly. They want no more than .005 of an inch out of parallel between this space and the bearing housing. I was able to play with it until I got it within .002 of an inch. Took just a little longer but may as well do it better than minimums.

Stan

[StanFoster]

I got to sneak in two hours today is all...but I was able to make a lift strut,..and install it. This strut stabilizes the transmission and transfers some of the load of the helicopter to the hood bracket. When I disassemble again, I will round the ears off the lift strut...then paint the transmission and tair rotor gearbox before the final assembly.

I have found that watching the videos...taking a few notes...makes my limited shop time more efficient. I go in pretty well prepared for my next task...and get er done....:yo:

Next task I beieve will be the tail rotor shaft and tailrotor gearbox.

Stan

[CLS447]

Stan, keep on teaching me something here ! What type of tubing is the yellow stuff ?

Gotta love that DeWalt drill ! Are you now advertising for them ? If there are royalties , I'd like to get in on that action !

That is gonna be one bad ass chopper !

[akoschier]

Renard,
There is one flying in Switzerland near Zurich (Urs Medazzi) and a few being built in other countries
Look at the Helicycle website.
avk

[Kandace]

Hi Stan, I'm so glad your back to building! I've been waiting for this thread to get restarted.

This is so cool!

Kandace

[StanFoster]

Chris- That yellow tube is the breather hose for the tranny. It will be tied up later. It is also where the oil is added. I love those lithium ion powered Dewalt drills that were part of my winnings. Those batteries are much lighter, do not dischsrge at all in t months, and can be charged 2000 times! Unbelievable improvement. I actually am testing some tools for DeWalt and will be a regular on their website soon, along witb Brad Mcfarland. Kandace- Glad you are enjoying my re start on my build. I have explained earlier that I just had bitten off more than I could chew until I got my new room done. I completely set aside the Helicycle until it was moved out to its new home. I am all relathered up and you can expect no letup from now on ,as long as my 3rd shipment arrives soon! After absolutely falling in LOVE with helicopter flying, the time I am spending building this is just that much more enjoyable to me. I dont think I can describe the elation I have felt learning to fly a helicopter. Do you find this happening to you with your R22 experience? Stan