Advice for a first-timer Gyrobee UL setup ???

[teatimeguy]

Hi, my name is Joel Brown, and im planning to build a gyrobee. (changed my mind from original plan of sparrow because i would rather have something more popular for my first one)
I would like to have everyones opinion on a few things. First, the gyrobee plans a downloaded are from 1997. Is that a problem or is that design still good?
Next, I am only 125 lbs, the airport here is 2800 feet, (although i would like to fly as high as 6-7 thousand feet quite often), it NEEDS to stay UL weight, (no prerotator), would like to take-off as short of runway as possible, and this will be my first gyro. What setup would you suggest; engine, prop, rotorblades, and tail design?
After reading and asking a few people different questions, I am, as of now, thinking to go with a rotax 447, two blade, 60" tennesee wood prop, watson tail design (simply because its the one that came with the plans) and as for rotors, i have heard different things. I want something that is going to work well spinning them up by hand. I have heard dragon wings are the best but not recommended for the gyrobee and they are difficult to hand start, is this true? Also, is the Watson tail design good and stable for a beginner such as myself? If not, what other design is suitable and buildable? But again, all advice will be appreciated since i have no first hand experience. Thank you so much for your time, i hope this all makes sense to you.

[Joe Pires]

Hi,

I am not a bee-knowlegable person but you might want to look at their gizmo pre-rotator. Its a hand powered light weight pre-rotator which would allow you to use what I believe are the lightests and certainly well respected Dragon Wings.

A Bee with a 447 and 125 pilot that sounds like a very nice match. Enjoy yourself.

[MrGrey]

As a former bee owner (100hrs or so) I can say that hand starting any blades on a bee is difficult and dangerous because you cannot reach them from your seat... make your first gyro as easy on you as you can... rotor management is crucial and hand starting blades is difficult for a newbie to master... i would recommend having a prerotator... i was witness to the aftermath of someone whose hand was caught in a prop...

[Doug Riley]

If you must stand on the seat to reach your blades, then do it before you start the engine. If your engine is tough to start, then start it, warm it up and shut it off before pre-spinning.

I can manage a wimpy spinup with my fingertips on my 'Bee while standing on the ground. "Wimpy" is good enough with Rotordynes, but not with Dragon Wings. You must get up on the seat and really wail on them.

[animal]

Good Luck, keep us posted.

[Papa Smurf]

Bee stuff:

http://www.starbeegyros.com/

http://www.starbeegyros.com/productdetail.asp?ID=116&kits=1

[GyroRon]

I have flown a bunch of gyrobees, if you want a good one here is my advise.

Use either a Rotax 447 with gearbox and a wood two blade prop, or a MZ 202 with gearbox - stay away from belt drives with the MZ - with same type of prop.

Use either Sportcopter 7 inch chord by 23 foot blades, or Rotordyne blades of the same size. You weight so little compared to the usual guy you will be under rotored with longer blades.

Build the gyrobee to plans, but do know that some of the holes apparently do not line up. I have a friend who is taking the plans and making better CAD drawings of them, I can give you his contact info if you are serious about building a bee. If you are not comfortable with cutting and drilling all the parts, then just order a rolling basic airframe from www.Starbeegyros.com

The best mod I have seen on a gyrobee is to use a "Tall tail" from rotorflight dynamics - same tail you see on Dominator gyros. I flew a gyrobee last summer with one of these tails and it was hands down a hundred times better than any other bee I had flown before it.

Starbee has a new T tail that may also work out nicely, but I have not had the chance to fly it yet.

Not having a pre rotator is not a big deal. If anything you will learn very fast how to handle the rotors and rotor management.... Better than not learning that and just learning to squeeze a handle and take off. I have not seen many people flap blades that had to hand start them, but have seen countless people with pre rotators flap theirs.

The Falcon is not a bad gyro. It is not more popular because not many people know about them. For the money it is a bargin. But the bee is a great choice as well. Do know that to be a legal ultralight you will have to have a absolute stripped down machine. Mine is as barebones as I can make it and it is looking like I might have trouble staying under 254 lbs...

[chief mcgee]

" Build the gyrobee to plans, but do know that some of the holes apparently do not line up. "

GyroRon, This statement worries me. Could you explain which ones please. Thanks, Chief

[GyroRon]

I can't, I have not built a gyrobee. My friend - the engineer who has taken the plans and been downloading them into a CAD program - told me there are hole alignment issues he found using the plans. I would ask others who built gyrobees if they had issues if you want to make sure. Bear in mind, my friend is a perfectionist, and a hole is either aligned or not, and by not it could be just off by a few thousands and he would notice it.

[teatimeguy]

Thank you so much for your info.. Thats just what i hoped you would say (447 with a wooden prop) I'm from Northern CA and My parents live in eastern WA at 4200 feet. Would it be a problem to fly it at that elevation? also what is your guess at the take-off distance i would need under normal ideal conditions? And yes, i would love your friends contact info or some way to talk to him about the holes not lining up thanks again

[Gyro-nut]

125 lbs??? Holy crap... just tie a kite to your butt :)

I can't give you and good numbers for 4200 ft joel, but at 850ft, I run a 447 air command (selling by the way) with 23 ft skywheels (prerotated) and I'm off the ground in 100 ft or so with my 200 lb butt in the seat....

I wouldn't think you'd have any problems.

[ultracruiser41]

I really don't know what you're talking about with the holes not matching up. I had no problems with any of the holes in my Bee!

Most mis-aglinement problems come from not reading or measuring correctly.

[DanielM]

The only hole that didn't line up right for me was the one that mates the keel to the diagonal mast brace. I just match drilled the brace.

[GyroRon]

I really don't know what you're talking about with the holes not matching up. I had no problems with any of the holes in my Bee!

Most mis-aglinement problems come from not reading or measuring correctly.

Tim Moses is the one who told me this. I will see him tomorrow I think and ask him for specifics

[RayPierce]

I really don't know what you're talking about with the holes not matching up. I had no problems with any of the holes in my Bee!

Most mis-aglinement problems come from not reading or measuring correctly.

Me either! I had no trouble lining up the holes.

[Ralph]

Ron,

I am puzzled since all parts were assembled within the CAD program to assure that all holes matched. That means the holes should line up in the real world if the holes are properly placed in real-world aluminum. Besides, if there was a fundamental alignment problem, given the number that have been built, we would all know about it.

Ralph

[GyroRon]

I spoke to Tim today and he admitted, the misalignment on some of the holes is not much, in most cases less than a 1/16th of a inch. I told you guys he is a perfectionist! His main concern was that if following the hole placement on the plans, was the engine mount would not end up square with the keel or mast according to him. He said it would end up with some amount of offset or tilt according to what his CAD program was telling him.

He also mentioned that he stopped his plans to update the plans after looking at the " Hornet " drawings. He felt the Hornet looked to be a better design and that the plans were of a high quality, so he left it at that....

He is looking at possibly purchasing John Mini's Gyrobee up for sale on Ebay right now.

Sorry if my posts may have made it sound like the Gyrobee had major issues.

[Dale Young]

All of mine lined up.

[Jon F]

I entered the original GyroBee drawings into AutoCad and found a small discepency in the diagonal brace as well.

The small amount of displacement between the holes could easily be missed. Match-drilling to final size from smaller pilot holes would not show the small difference.

If anyone would like a copy of my CAD drawings, let me know. Other than the small hole alignment issue noted the drawings are all original.

Jonathan Fant

:wave:

[ncsgyro]

Jon F,
What's the best way to contact you to get a copy of your CAD drawings?
Thanks,
Noe

[gyroman]

Yeah, can you post a link to the drawings? Or maybe have Tim put them on the GyroWIKI site?

[Jon F]

The PMs here on the Forum are one way to contact me for the CAD files, though I only check them once in a while.

Are you interested in the AutoCad files (R14) or pdfs that you can print anywhere, or both?

Thanks

Jonathan E. Fant

:wave:

[gyroman]

Both!! would be great...

[Buzzard]

I am considering the purchased what I believe Star Bee site calls a" BEE Deal " (see our classifieds) at a good price but I really want an Ultra Bee. Is the converision possible if I can slim down to 200#? BTW the blades are 24' Dragon wings

[RockyMeLad]

I am considering the purchased what I believe Star Bee site calls a" BEE Deal " (see our classifieds) at a good price but I really want an Ultra Bee. Is the converision possible if I can slim down to 200#? BTW the blades are 24' Dragon wings

Buzzard,

Just for the record, Starbee's stuff is excellent. My DesertBee uses their main gear (narrower version w/spring-shock suspension). I like it. And they are fine folks to deal with.

In flying clothes I'm about 225 lbs (also trying to shed some). The DesertBee is 310 lbs plus 45 lbs of fuel. At BDs in Florida the 24' Dragon Wings are almost too long. Even with my lard rump rrpm is only about 310, but 23' DWs go to 355 rrpm, nice safety margin. Here at LRU with density altitudes of 8,000 ft in the summer, I do have to use the 24' DWs.

As for hand starting Dragon Wings. . .
it's doable, but. . .
I've done it a couple of times, but they are so light, they decay rapidly without a slight breeze to help keep them going. DO follow the guidance to pre-rotate ONLY with the engine stopped.

Not to beat a dead horse, but get adequate training before trying to fly your own bird. The easiest transition is from a tandem open bird, but even training in the heavy enclosed birds will work.

Have fun building and flying.