Bad Brakes.

[billygyro]

Hello All, Well I Just Found Out That The Type Of Brakes That I Have On My Gyro Are The Same Type That ( Wayne Stargell)-wayne133,,, Had On His Machine., 2 Years Ago When He Was Comming In For A Landing The Left Wheel Locked Up And In Resault's Rolled His Gyro 3 Times To A Bashing Stop, Luckly And God As His Co-pilot, The Only Thing It Done Was Hurt His Walet,, To The Tune Of About $5000.00....
The Brakeshoe Had Debonded From The Metal And Had Rolled Under The Drum Causeing A Lock Down On That Wheel. After Jacking That Side Up And Pulling It Apart, The Pad Fell Out On The Ground.
He Told Me That He Called Up (wick's Aircraft) And Told Them Of The Miss Hap- (now Get This) They Sell Them But Told Him They Only Are Used For Go-carts Not For Gyro's And Would Not Be Reliable For The Damage To His Machine. I Belive He Told Me They Where New At The Time...!!!
I Told Him To Send A Pic Or 2 Of That And I Would Place Them Up For All To See.... Be Advised... He Got Another Set Of Brakes Just Like Them And They Too Have Debonded After On 1.5 Years..

My Solution,,, I Will Pull Mine Off And Drill Hole's Through Them In 2 Spots (top) And (bottom) And Countersink For Rivets.(stainless) And Put Them Back On For Safty Measer's... Why Chance It When I Can Easly Do It Now While In Build Process..

It's A Lot To Think About, And Can Be Very Costly Or Even Death.... Why Take The Chance.
Wayne Wanted To Know If Any Of You Have Had The Same Thing Happen To You With These Kind Of Brakes??

[birdy]

Or you could land with no or very little roll. ;)

[Chris Burgess]

This is what the forum is good for. Helping to prevent others from having the same thing happen. A locked brake is no fun in any aircraft. Thanks for posting billygyro.

[Harry_S.]

IMO, if the machine is gonna be seeing a lot of outdoors ie, rain, wet grass, wet trailering etc. those brakes will need a lot of attention. Look at the rust on those dudes. Dirt and grime added to it as well as the rust.

If the machine sets all winter or for any length of time, this type of open brake needs the wheels pulled, inspected and cleaned. JMO.


Cheers :)

[animal]

Billy I think the counter sunk rivits will work ok, but like others I would for sure clean those up better and make sure you lube the pivot points,the rear Brakes on my old sportster work the same way,when I got it they where dry from sitting and one day I hit them hard when a light turned red on me and they lucked up and I went fish tail slideing for about 30 feet, was sure I was a goner. anyway the cam that expands the brake can pull to far and get stuck so make sure you adjust them right also when you put them back on.
just something to check since they are the same design.

good luck.

[Doug Riley]

I imagine those are Azusa or Matco gokart brakes. It's true that they aren't made to stop a 1400-lb. vehicle. In fact they're pretty weak even for light 2-place gyros.

One way to eliminate the danger of this kind of hidden damage is to use external band brakes. Azusa sells them. They use the same drum blanks as the internal shoe brakes. Besides being more inspectable, the external brakes are a little lighter (no steel shoes).

They still rust, though.

[Rehan K.Janjua]

Glad you checked em before any thing happened.

I would use 4 rivets because the glue will give up soon and only thing holding
the lining are the rivets.

Better yet is to replace those DUM brakes and go for DISK brakes.

Thank You for sharing.

Best Wishes and fly safe.

[Friendly]

I imagine those are Azusa or Matco gokart brakes. It's true that they aren't made to stop a 1400-lb. vehicle. In fact they're pretty weak even for light 2-place gyros.

One way to eliminate the danger of this kind of hidden damage is to use external band brakes. Azusa sells them. They use the same drum blanks as the internal shoe brakes. Besides being more inspectable, the external brakes are a little lighter (no steel shoes).

They still rust, though.
Billy , that does look like the Azusa brakes. You can get the band as Doug said. I changed my drum brakes for the band, it was about 8 dollars I thnk. An they are quite a bit lighter than the drum brake. The band takes the place of the shoes, backing plate and hardware. bet the drum set up is close to 3 pounds by itself. Make sure you tell them the diamenter of the drum, there are two different sizes. Also the band brakes held better than the drum on engine warm ups.

[billygyro]

Hello Guy's
The Pics Of The Brakes Belong To Wayne (331). By The Way ,i Had That Backwards On My Early Post. I Talked To Wayne Today And He Told Me That It's (331) Not 133. Sorry Wayne.. Anyway The Brakes Where New When That Happen To Him,,, Mine Is New And I Have Looked At Them Real Good, But I Will Still Do The Rivet Thing.. Why Take The Chance...
My Wheel Pants Wont Let Me Put The Other Brakes On, (outside Band Type) That Might Be Beter, But I Would Have To Modifye The Hole Thing So Much. I Could Go To Hydrolic But Would Still Have To Modifye To Much.
Wayne Wanted To Atleast Let Others Know Of This ,all He Keep Saying Is," If It Will Help Someone Then It's Worth Putting Up A Post About It " And I Too Agree..

That Wayne Sure Seem's Like A Swell Guy. And I Have Been Told He Is A Excellent Machinest.

[animal]

That Wayne Sure Seem's Like A Swell Guy. And I Have Been Told He Is A Excellent Machinest.

yeah Wayne has been in contact with me several times since I posted about the EA-82, he has an EA-82 on his gyro that he loves and talked to me for a few hours telling me in detail how to set it up and get the most power out of it. from what he has told me I am really looking forward to getting my EA-82 and redrive setup.

I think my gyro is going to be a sweet flying machine when I get it done.

[Brent Drake]

Looks kinda rusty. What happened to the annual inspection?

[billygyro]

They Have Been Pulled Off For A Few Years Now, I Am Sure. They Still Looked New With No Rust Back When It Happend.

[Heather Poe]

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/view_larger_image.php?pid=4169
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=4169~subid=2103/index.html

[billygyro]

Yep That Is The Set, They Sell Them For Aircraft,,, No Where Does It Tell You That They Only Go On Go Karts !!!!!!
I Have Seen The Same Set Up's On $40,000.00 Gyro's (sparrow Hawk's) As Well As Others.
They Should Not Sell Them To You Knowing Your Going To Put Them On A Heavy,powerful,gyro Or Plane. (imo) If Thats NoT What They Where Disigned For !!!`````what Do You Think```???:noidea:

[JByrd]

On an experimental aircraft it seems to me the criteria for engineering design and fitness for use is decided entirely by the experimentalist.

Jim B.

[Chopper Reid]

I'm still puzzled why a locked brake should cause a rollover as I thought a near zero ground roll would be the way most of us would have been taught to land. A locked brake at worst should have resulted in a quick jerk and a bit of peddle pushing , getting the pilots full attention.

3 rolls is pretty impressive and I'm wondering how fast that guy landed??

[wayne331]

hey chopper reid,i'll tell you how i was going to do crow an go down the run way,just like 1,2,3 just fast.hard to the left.

[billygyro]

And I Thought Everyone Had Done The Touch And Go Thing At One Time Or Another, (reid) Did You Ever Do One ? Even When You Just Started Out Flying Gyro's?? I Know I Will Do Some Crow Hopps When I Start Flying My Machine. My Instructor Said I Would .

Wayne Has Told Me That He Can Land Without Much Ground Roll. I Havent Made It That Far Yet Myself, I Still Land With Ground Roll, Almost Like Flying The Ultralights That I Have Had In The Past.:plane: :yo:

[Chopper Reid]

And I Thought Everyone Had Done The Touch And Go Thing At One Time Or Another, (reid) Did You Ever Do One ? Even When You Just Started Out Flying Gyro's?? I Know I Will Do Some Crow Hopps When I Start Flying My Machine. My Instructor Said I Would .

Wayne Has Told Me That He Can Land Without Much Ground Roll. I Havent Made It That Far Yet Myself, I Still Land With Ground Roll, Almost Like Flying The Ultralights That I Have Had In The Past.:plane: :yo:

Yep, I did the crow hop thing but my landings were nearly always zero or extremely little ground roll as that the way my instructor taught me.

[billygyro]

Well,,,,, Good For You And Your Instructor,,,,!!!!!

[wayne331]

my main point is that you can't change the passed,it's done.i don't want no one to have the same thing to happe

[wayne331]

i don't want no one else to destorey there aircraft,Azusa need too do better on there brake shose