View Full Version : Europ and rotorblades
07-09-2004, 11:59 AM
My name is Allan, live in Estonia, I am new in this forum and do not have even flying experience. I hope that you can help me to start building my first Gyrobee. I have searched everything in the internet what is connected with gyrocopters and spetcaly with gyrobee last year and now it is time to build it. At first thing I wanted to buy rotorblades, and there was a first problem. As you all know :) Estonia lies in Europ but rotorblades are in USA. When I will spend for blades 2000$ I must spend 1000$ for transport and it is real bad. Does anyone of you know, can I buy blades for bee in Europa, is someone in here who makes those? That was my firs question and I realy hope that you can help me.
Finally, I appology for my bad english!
07-10-2004, 03:04 AM
Two main blades manufacturers in France:
07-10-2004, 11:18 AM
I believe European rotors don't give you significant savings: they (rotors) are slightly more expensive than, say, DragonWings, thus you save on shipping but no saving in total.If you plan to build Gyrobee then 24-25' DragonWings may be a good choice since you aren't restricted with FAR103. 24' DW costs somewhere close to $1400, shipping to Europe would be $350...400 - not that much as you estimated.
You can also contact Jukka Tervamakki in Helsinki - he used to build composite rotors for single-seaters.
Which engine do you plan to use?
I'm also building Gyrobee among other projects, feel free to ask if you have any questions (Moscow isn't that far from Eestimaa ;)
07-11-2004, 02:29 AM
Thanks to André I already find out that european rotorblades are real expensive and it is cheaper to by them from US. I found that Rotorhawk blades have a very good price and for beginner is they good enough. Where did you get that shipping to Europe would be $350...400? I asked from DHL and they told $840. Engine is another complicated thing. I planed to use a Rotax 447 or 503. I also find Rotax 503 analog Taiga, but I don’t know is it good or not. There is only one picture with price in internet <http://www.aeropromservice.ru/> but nothing more. May be you know anything more about that Russian engine.
07-11-2004, 10:50 AM
Where did you get that shipping to Europe would be $350...400? I asked from DHL and they told $840. Engine is another complicated thing. I planed to use a Rotax 447 or 503. I also find Rotax 503 analog Taiga, but I don’t know is it good or not. There is only one picture with price in internet <http://www.aeropromservice.ru/> but nothing more. May be you know anything more about that Russian engine.
DHL isn't a modest company ;) Commonly 1 kg airfreight from US to Europe costs ca. $9...10, thus 25 kg rotor and 10-15 kg crating should be ca. $400. It's simplier to ask for shipping quotation from the company which rotor you plan to purchase.
Taiga isn't an engine at all, it's heavy and not a reliable thing at all. In case you weight less than 80 kg then UMZ-432 (may be also called UMZ-440, used in 'Lynx" snowmobile, check out Yandex search for "двигатель умз-440" words and take a look at their website http://www.umpo.ru/catalog.php?c=3&n=6) may be a good choice. This is also snowmobile engine but from another device. It's available directly from factory in Ufa where it costs $400 (hand start included). You will need to attach a PSRU, Hirth or Rotax gearboxes can be used, I have plans for attaching Rotax gearbox. We actually are building two Gyrobees now, one is powered with Simonini Victor I Plus 48 hp engine and second is for this UMZ engine.
I have sent a pair of Dragon Wings in a heavy wooden box to England a few months ago with DHL (Airborne Express) via airfreight. The buyer paid about $240, including insurance. It may be more expensive to send to Estonia, but check airfreight prices.
I found that Rotorhawk blades have a very good price and for beginner is they good enough.
This would be a mistake in my opinion. Beginner or not, you want good blades. I would get DWs if I were you.
07-12-2004, 09:28 AM
Thanks Udi. But why are the Rotorhawks so bad? Ralph E. Taggart says, in his Gyrobee documentation, that Rotorhawks work very well, but he does not sugest DW´s.
07-12-2004, 10:18 AM
The picture with respect to rotor blades would be a lot clearer is folks would refrain from absolute assessments. Every blade option out there comes with a set of tradeoffs:
BROCK blades are very light and provide the easiest hand-starting of any blades we have used. Their flight performance is adequate in that they will comfortably fly a 200+-pound pilot on a hot day with a 40 hp engine (24-foot rotor disc). They do not hold a lot of extra energy, so landing round-out has to be well-timed.
ROTOR HAWK blades are reasonably light and spin up easily by hand. Their in-flight performance slightly exceeds that of the Brock blades. Their biggest problem is setup. Getting both blades set to identical pitch takes longer than with some blades, probably due to variation in the jigs for drilling the holes to attach the blade straps. Once they have been set-up, they fly just fine.
ROTORDYNE blades are relatively heavy but do a superb job of holding energy and there are plenty of options to modulate the round-out on landing. They also don't lose speed as quickly is you get stuck in traffic on the taxiway. They will fly the machine on a 23 foot rotor disc but provide a confortable margin on a 25-foot disc.
SPORTCOPTER blades feature easy spin-up, very smooth operation, and good performance on a 24-foot rotor disc. They are more expensive than most and you will have to wait for delivery.
SKY WHEELS blades were never seriously considered to to their very high weight - difficult to make weight under Part 103. However, there is no reason to think they would fly OK.
DRAGON WINGS have low drag which equates to high performance. They are light, the price is excellent, and delivery is not a problem. The current blades (with a reflexed trailing edge) are flying on a number of Bees and results have been excellent. Optimum rotor disc diameter is likely to be between 23 and 24 feet. The biggest drawback to these blades is that you MUST have a prerotator. The blades need an absolute minimum of 90 RPM to get them started and 100-150 rpm is much better. Without a good solid start they will flap and will do so with very little warning. If you use a prerotator, they are probably the best blades you can get at the moment. We (Don and I) will be using a 24-foot set on a new Gyrobee we will be building, but that is only because we will be using a Wunderlich prerotator. Without a protator, you should use other blades.
The DW blades we argued against using were the old version without a reflexed trailing edge. While the performance was fine with the old blades, handling was very dicey. Based on what we now know about gyro stability, that was probably the result of a lowered vertical center-of-gravity (light blades and no prerotator), a marginal horizontal stab, and a strong negative-pitching moment of the blade airfoil. None of this should be an issue with current production blades, a stock Gyrobee, and any of the current tail group options.
07-12-2004, 10:41 AM
Thank you Ralph. It was a wery helpful explanation and will help me a lot.
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