Sparrowhawk Empty Weight

[okikuma]

I'm still stuck over how the Sparrowhawk can be so heavy at 900 lbs empty weight. I still think the Gyro can be made lighter by at least 150 lbs.

I've made some guesses on the various conponents weights to see if it all will add up to 900 lbs. Mind you, I know these figures are wild guesses, but in my mind's eye, those figures are within realm of possiblity.

Keel, Mast, Landing Gear - 150 lb.
Fiberglass cockpit, controls, instument panel, seats - 200 lb.
Rotorhead, linkage, and blades - 150 lb.
Empennage - 25 lb.
Soob 2.5L engine, PRSU, prerotator, cooling system - 375 lb.
Total = 900 lb.

Am I correct with my guess?

Randy, ideally my questions could be answered if you could weigh your gyro as it sits right now, and then weigh the rest of the components as you assemble your machine until you finally calculate your empty weight. I know this might be asking alot however, it may help others answer the same questions.

Wayne

[Steve McGowan]

I'm still stuck over how the Sparrowhawk can be so heavy at 900 lbs empty weight. I still think the Gyro can be made lighter by at least 150 lbs.

I've made some guesses on the various conponents weights to see if it all will add up to 900 lbs. Mind you, I know these figures are wild guesses, but in my mind's eye, those figures are within realm of possiblity.

Keel, Mast, Landing Gear - 150 lb.
Fiberglass cockpit, controls, instument panel, seats - 200 lb.
Rotorhead, linkage, and blades - 150 lb.
Empennage - 25 lb.
Soob 2.5L engine, PRSU, prerotator, cooling system - 375 lb.
Total = 900 lb.

Am I correct with my guess?

Randy, ideally my questions could be answered if you could weigh your gyro as it sits right now, and then weigh the rest of the components as you assemble your machine until you finally calculate your empty weight. I know this might be asking alot however, it may help others answer the same questions.

Wayne

My SH weighs in at 975 with 5 gals of fuel on board... now add the other 18 gals fuel....lil over 1000 lbs..

Now go ahead and build the cabin, doors fuel tanks, instrument pod, shelf and floor boards of carbon fiber and you can possible drop 150 lbs....

oh yes.....no transponder and use a hand held radio, and the entire tail section from carbon fiber also

MAYBE just Maybe :noidea:

[Brent_Brown]

That will do it Steve.

[r.coplen]

Brent,

The empty weight of Mariah was 905 lbs. This included oil and water and gas to the empty mark. We put in some gas and than pumped it out until the pumps went dry. Gross max weight is 1,500 lbs.

We have room for 24 gallons which weighs about 168lbs. That leaves a useful load of 432 lbs with a full tank of gas. We usually train with 15 gallons which weighs 105 lbs and gives us a useful load of 495 lbs.

[Heron]

You can save good pounds using a plastic intake, maybe 20lbs.
Heron

[StanFoster]

My SparrowHawk weighed exactly 950 pounds when I completed it. That included the doors, strobes, electric trim. I later added the Ivo prop which added 12 pounds if I remember correctly....my 4-1 exhaust was maybe 10 pounds more...just guessing ....so it should have ended up at 975 pounds +/-.

Stan

[mgoroff]

My SH weighs in at 956# empty. Pretty consistent with what others posted.

Marc

[okikuma]

905 lb., 950 lb., 975 lb., yikes! These are certainly fat gyros!

I like the Sparrowhawk for sure. The pictures and stories from Stan, Randy, Steve, and Marc have sold me on the fun one can have flying the Sparrowhawk. Unfortunately, the only thing that is holding me back from building one is the high empty weight.

If I built and owned a Sparrowhawk as an experimental amateur built aircraft with a gross weight as 1320 lb., I believe that it will be a much more useful aircraft in performance, utility, and resellability.

Now, I know some of you out there are thinking, "Why not just build a Sparrowhawk and just declare the empty weight as 1320 lb.? Quite frankly, the FAA, would look at my Sparrowhawk with great suspicion if the empty weight is 975 lb. and a gross weight of 1320 lb., especially if I had an accident with 2 people aboard. The gyro and amateur built aircraft community does not need additional negative publicity.

Let's put our collective heads and ideas together and discuss what will it take to reduce the empty weight down to 750 lb.

Wayne

[Steve McGowan]

905 lb., 950 lb., 975 lb., yikes! These are certainly fat gyros!

I like the Sparrowhawk for sure. The pictures and stories from Stan, Randy, Steve, and Marc have sold me on the fun one can have flying the Sparrowhawk. Unfortunately, the only thing that is holding me back from building one is the high empty weight.

If I built and owned a Sparrowhawk as an experimental amateur built aircraft with a gross weight as 1320 lb., I believe that it will be a much more useful aircraft in performance, utility, and resellability.

Now, I know some of you out there are thinking, "Why not just build a Sparrowhawk and just declare the empty weight as 1320 lb.? Quite frankly, the FAA, would look at my Sparrowhawk with great suspicion if the empty weight is 975 lb. and a gross weight of 1320 lb., especially if I had an accident with 2 people aboard. The gyro and amateur built aircraft community does not need additional negative publicity.

Let's put our collective heads and ideas together and discuss what will it take to reduce the empty weight down to 750 lb.

Wayne

Your worrying about something that is almost impossible to change,, as I have already said,, Carbon Fiber and about 50g's more money and you can build it lighter..

VW's Do NOT ride as a Cadillac will...your holding yourself back due to the LSP reg's.. The only true difference is 5 hours for time to be flown off with Light Sport or 40 hours flight time for Experimental Amateur built before your airworthiness phase 1 is complied with..

But thats just my way of thinking

[asmuzsr]

Yeah but what if someone is concerned they may lose their medical in the future?

[Mark Sanders]

Here's my waight / ballance sheet. sparrow hawk is heavy and when you cut power you better know where your at and where your going or it will decide for you in a hurry.

[r.coplen]

Coolbreez,

We have been through a number of power off landings as part of our training and we don't drop like a rock. The SparrowHawk has a 4 to 1 glide slope and can come down at about 1,100 feet per minute which is certainly controllable.

[automan1223]

I have piloted 2 sparrows and 1 AAI modded raf. All had Sport rotors on them. My initial flare to land was way high. Took forever to land ! Had so much cushion was amazing ! Altitude with power off drops at a very comfortable rate.

That 30' rotor does a good job.

Jonathan

[Mark Sanders]

Coolbreez,

We have been through a number of power off landings as part of our training and we don't drop like a rock. The SparrowHawk has a 4 to 1 glide slope and can come down at about 1,100 feet per minute which is certainly controllable.

yes but at 300' agl how much time do you have in a 180 degree turn you lose altitude real quick have your instructor cut power at normal cruis 60-65 ias and turn 180 at 300 agl and land see how much time you have I dout you make it if the wind is not right. The sparrow hawk can't do the same as a dom or bensen. its to heavy yu need that extra 1-2 hundred feet I know Ive been their.

[okikuma]

Steve, if you recall, I said that I would register the Sparrowhawk as an Experimental Amateur Built aircraft with a gross weight of 1320 lbs. It wouldn't be a light sport aircraft, but an EAB aircraft that can be operated as a light sport aircraft if needed. As an EAB aircraft, I'd still would have to fly off the required 40 hours regardless of gross weight.

Would I operate the Sparrowhawk under LSA rules? No, because I can still qualify for a medical. Hell, if I had a Sparrowhawk, I'd work for a Rotorcraft Gyroplane CFI ticket and give instruction. With a gross weight of 1320, then I can let student sport pilots solo the gyro (along with commercial and private pilot students). If I by some chance choose not to keep an active medical, I can operate it under sport pilot rules for my own enjoyment.

Having an aircraft that can qualify and be operated under LSA rules is a big selling point if and when I would decide to sell the gyro. I could interest a wider selection of buyers. Plain and simple, a 1320 lb. gross weight on a Sparrowhawk with a 550 lb. useful load is a more practical machine than a 1500 lb. gross weight machine with the same 550 lb. useful load.

Let me ask this. What has been the average empty weight of the RAF gyros that have been modified with the AAI drop keel conversion? What's the average empty weight of a stock RAF gyro?

Wayne

[Steve McGowan]

Sounds like a great plan Wayne..... keep us informed

[gyroplanes]

Yeah but what if someone is concerned they may lose their medical in the future?

Even if you don't certify as Light sport (better hurry), you can still fly it as one.

Any gyro out there that meets the limits for LSA can be flown by a LSpilot, it doesn't matter how it was certified.

A very common misconception.