The price of a RAF is going up.

[dragonflyerthom]

If some of my info is right a new RAF kit will soon be in the 40k range. I would suggest anyone wanting one to get it now. Transportation cost and import tax will help get it higher also.

[Brent_Brown]

That is great!

[Steve Osborne]

Thom, that is why Larry B has bought everyone he can get his hands on lately. Him and Stan are in a bidding war, didn't they tell you ?:D

[StanFoster]

Steve: I dont want an RAF. I hear two RAF pilots have publically said they are unstable and dangerous. Not getting me in one...:D


Stan

[Steve Osborne]

I know what you mean Stan, flying it around all day with only 2 fingers on the controls is really starting to get old. Maybe I should take the stab off for a wile.

[StanFoster]

Steve: I saw yours fly....looked great. I loved the way mine handled. I was kidding about not wanting one....


Stan

[jjp77tex]

I am having problems with my RAF that new owners should be aware of. After I come out of a loop and enter a barrel roll, I find that I have to apply excess right rudder. Steve..you have this same problem?:lie:

[Steve Osborne]

I have found if exit the roll from the right with full power the engine torque will cancel the need of rudder input.:D

[Timchick]

With the exchange rate and transportation costs the new RAFs sold in America will soon cost more than a Sparrowhawk or Xenon.

[StanFoster]

The RAF used market should be getting stronger. Larry Boyer has a nice one for sale......

I need to sniff around for an unfinished kit.


Stan

[Larry Boyer]

Not to throw dirt on some people on this forum and I understand some mentalities would not understand the law of supply and demand, but I told you so!!! I had said since the RAF company went out of business, the RAF would increase in value, Many of you jumped on me like I was a nut case for suggesting that was even a remote possibility. Just saw a bidding war on ebay for an average RAF go over $25000. Based on new build costs of most 2 place machines, it probably will be a good buy vers buying new.I mentioned that I will have one for sale in the spring, and the emails came flying in. Sorry RAF soothsayers, but the RAF demand is there as it is a fun, very desirable machine to own. I sure love mine.

[Larry Boyer]

Stan, you are the altimate sniffing champ! if there is a good buy out there, you know about it sometimes before the person that owns it wants to sell. You are a bloodhound extrordinair!

[Heron]

Why going up?
I know the dollar is takinga beating worldwide but the tax is only 6% and the price can be lower.
Heron

[jjp77tex]

Steve,
Excellent idea. I have always exited my RAF-2000 barrel rolls to the left with full power. I will try exiting to the right when I fly tonight. Thanks for the tip.:wacko:
Jack

[Larry Boyer]

Heron. When something becomes harder to get prople want it and are willing to pay the bucks! Example. The tickle me elmo doll was so in demand @ Christmas a couple years ago to where people were willing to spend $1000 to get one when there was a shortage of them.There will be a shortage of RAFs and people will hold on to them or will part with them if the price is right.

[Friendly]

Heron. When something becomes harder to get prople want it and are willing to pay the bucks! Example. The tickle me elmo doll was so in demand @ Christmas a couple years ago to where people were willing to spend $1000 to get one when there was a shortage of them.There will be a shortage of RAFs and people will hold on to them or will part with them if the price is right.

I don't want a whole RAF, but I would like a H/S, (hint,hint)

[Heron]

Larry
I understand the concept of offer and demand, just don´t see it impacting prices on gyros at this moment.
After 5 years reseaching markets and prices, there are many items in a gyro that will have the same price or pretty close.
When someone asks me about mods on their machines I point out that the cost will come up to almost a new machine and they give up patching an old out of date model and go for the modern gyros.
Subaru engine 2.5, adequated rotor and prop will be common for a two seater and will cost the same if you pick same model and brand. That set will cost today around 6 G´s.
If a company takes over the project and did not find a way to make it cheaper, a good marketing tool has been neglected. Around 10 g´s will be enough to put a good kit together, than add taxes, shipping, comission and profit.
In my case I want do add training up to solo in the package for financial purposes. Lets say 20 G´s? 25ish at the most?
Make up should not cost a bundle, it is just make up.
Better call Maaco . . .
Heron

[dragonflyerthom]

Heron

Your prices are much better than what RAF wants. Heck the cheapest Soob crate motor is 6000 dollars. Where are you getting your parts and fiberglass?

[Brent_Brown]

What gyro is he talking about?

[dragonflyerthom]

I THINK he is saying the RAF is overpriced based on his pricing of parts and aviation rotors, props and equipment.

[Heron]

Avionics will be the biggest differential in a gyro, so will the engine if you get one from the regular sources they will go up to 8 to 12 g´s.
Since the dollar started to drop, the price difference from down here in Brazil also tumbled . . .I started my reseach with dolla 3 to 1 and today is is 1.8 to 1.
Fiber went up since the Freedom war but I save enough importing what needs to be imported (engine/blades/props) the later 2 maybe fan still be produced here.
Blades here use to be more expensive than in the US, they are correcting as I go along posting on the Braziliam Forum, they take numbers out of the blue.
So today I can still produce a gyro 50% cheaper than in the US (thinking same model)
The same 6 g´s used to be 18.000 real and now are only 10.800 that difference alone could be the profit on a machine, it summs up to a lot of money down here. (that is for Sub 2.5, blades and prop)
Import taxes are 0% as gyros are classified under helicopters and are considered utilitary vehicles.
There are still some mistery prices in tubing, the similar costs less in the US and they have the made in brazil stamp (Alcoa) so there will be two taxes on them.
This year (2007) my losses werer so significant that I am closer to bail out than to proceed on this quest.
Time will tell.
Heron

[Brent_Brown]

Heron what gyro are you talking about? You sound like your in production of a gyro, post one for us to see.

[Gyropilot007]

I'm NOT selling mine!!!

[StanFoster]

Bob: I didnt hear you....did you say you were selling your RAF??


Stan

[C. Beaty]

Heron. When something becomes harder to get prople want it and are willing to pay the bucks! Example. The tickle me elmo doll was so in demand @ Christmas a couple years ago to where people were willing to spend $1000 to get one when there was a shortage of them.There will be a shortage of RAFs and people will hold on to them or will part with them if the price is right.
It is interesting how things that were both technical and commercial disasters can become objects of affection among collectors. Musical toilet paper holders, Chevettes and Edsals all have their devoted collectors.

I recently spotted an Internet ad for a Chevette that had been restored to showroom condition with an asking price of nearly $40,000.

I suppose for the collectors of misbegotten automobiles, it is a parody on the billionaires that can afford to collect Dussenberg Js and Bugatti Royales.

I hate to pop your balloon, Larry, but by buying and rebuilding RAF wrecks and adding your own modifications, you have full liability exposure.

Your exposure wouldn’t amount to anything if you instead collected musical toilet paper holders; -I’ve never heard of any lethality or even minor injury accruing from using such a device- and I expect that in the long run, it would prove to be more profitable.

[Harry_S.]

Chuck,

I never saw THAT ad before. I'm wondering, did it come with a standardized tune or could you select a tune?!

Is it still available?! :D :D :noidea:


Cheers :)

[dragonflyerthom]

I'm NOT selling mine!!!

Bob

I agree. I have finally gotten mine where she should be. But there some who might want to.

[Gyropilot007]

Stan:

I suspect you've been running that saw in your workship too long without ear protection. My baby is NOT for sale.

Thom:

My gyro flies real sweet right now. That being said, I am planning on one MAJOR upgrade project in 2008. I'll keep you posted.

Merry Christmas to all....and to all GOOD FLYING!!!

[C. Beaty]

Chuck,

I never saw THAT ad before. I'm wondering, did it come with a standardized tune or could you select a tune?!

Is it still available?! :D :D :noidea:


Cheers :)Yes, Harry. To set the mood, you could select Jingle Bells, for instance.

To find your very own, just type: “musical toilet paper holder” in the Goggle window.

Some place, there is speculation that the famous Faberge’ Eggs were originally toilet paper containers.

[Heron]

Brent . . .not yet and it does not lookgood for me now!
I kinda went "orphan" on a project and life stoped (not good)
But I still keep checking and trying with the hopes something happen (investment)
It will be tandem, use Subaru or RX-8 as engine, redrive, enclosed (tough call here) active suspension, + tail, lots of composite, good avionics package, ensured, financiable. Solo with authorized instructor a must, included on the financing.
It is a patchwork and lack of resources makes it crawl very slowly;
Thanks
Heron (sorry NuRAF for using your thread)

[utahgyrocop]

Ok...I'll bite.

What do you guys, I mean the experts, feel that an unmodified, stock, 2.2 Subaru, RAF in good condition is worth?

[Heron]

Not more than 25 g´s. I will pass on anything more than that and build an entire new ship.
Heron

[Harry_S.]

Ok...I'll bite.

What do you guys, I mean the experts, feel that an unmodified, stock, 2.2 Subaru, RAF in good condition is worth?



WOW, Heath...it all depends.

How GOOD is good, and how is it loaded, eg, equipment wise, appearance?!

How's its history...maintenance, damage, flight hours, etc.

Dependent on the above, plus additional factors, I would say anywhere from 25K -35K.

Get out and look at some of the better ones. I've seen one or two over the years that I wouldn't even accept, gratis. There are some real dogs out there. What's that old adage...you get what you pay for?!


Cheers :)

[Heron]

And stay away from 2.2´s . . .
Divide a gyro in 5 groups of parts and price them. Funny exercise . . .
Heron

[Harry_S.]

And stay away from 2.2´s . . .





Why do you say that??

I have a carb, stock 2.2; been flyin' it regular for near 10 yrs. and it hasn't even hic-cuped. A 2.5 would give better performance but...

Don't understand that statement at all. :noidea:


Cheers :)

[Heron]

There was a problem with 2.2 out bearing and created a situation with the reduction (planetary) I don´t know if it will happen with a belt reduction.
Perfomance is the best difference and I was talking about a new engine for your ship not a ship with a 2.2 already on it.
Price difference will be around 800 bucks engine to engine.
In case of choice go with 2.5!
Heron