SparrowHawk III Open House

[r.coplen]

Open House at GBA Gyroplanes of Seattle LLC

The SparrowHawk III kit will be shown to the public for the very first time at GBA Gyroplanes of Seattle’s hanger at Auburn Municipal Airport.

Friday, December 21, 4:00 pm. to 6:00 pm.
Saturday, December 22, 9:00 am. to 12:00 am.

Devon Hansen, SparrowHawk III project manager and Robin Wilson, senior vice president and director of Groen Brothers Aviation Inc. will be assisting in the open house.

Robin Wilson will also give a presentation on the “Sport Hawk” and the “Shadow Hawk”. The “Sport Hawk” is a tandem, fully enclosed two-seat gyro that is being designed and will be manufactured for the Light Sport Aircraft Market. The “Shadow Hawk” will be brought to market as a surveillance aircraft for law enforcement.

On Saturday morning 9:00 am to 11:00 am CFI, David Overman, will be available for gyroplane educational flights. (Weather permitting)

The new SparrowHawk III kit has been purchased by GBA Gyroplanes of Seattle LLC and will be a build project for Popular Rotorcraft Association Chapter 30.


Please RSVP to my email if possible as I will be providing refreshments for those who attend. r.coplen@comcast.net

Email for driving instructions. r.coplen@comcast.net

[dimwit]

Randy. You should post some pictures of the the aircraft and the events of the open house. I'm sure that those of us that can't make it would really like to see how it went.

[r.coplen]

Larry,

I will make sure a report is posted.

[Heather Poe]

Note that many items in the cabin are assembled, as well as the keel and wiring harness (for the SkyDat and other instruments).

[Heather Poe]

Note that even the prerotator is now practically a bolt-on item. The FAA had a favorable impression of the new kit. However, GBA is waiting for their final approval of the kit. With GBA putting more work put into assembling some of the more difficult parts, the kit will cost more.

[route66]

WOW, looks like all the fun stuff has been done! I fondly remember looking at the parts I received, a piece of angle aluminum with instructions how to make it become 8 separate parts and having to buy 2 large sized whole saws to cut a sheet of rubber to fabricate the shocks knowing the saws were only going to be used once and forever seek storage space in my tool bin. The new buyers will surely miss having the neighborhood bonfire I just had where I burned the wood molds I made to fabricate the tail assembly. It is a shame they will miss all the tedious hours fabricating, fitting and the ever present oops which sometime cost a bunch to re-do. Why would they take all the fun out of a build?

It is sweet and maybe I am a little envious, I see a few hundred hours saved and a bargain at what the additional cost might be. Looks Great!

[StanFoster]

I think they are going the direction most kit builders would prefer. Having more of the work done for them.

I will be brutally honest.....I would prefer still having the other kit with more for the builder to do and save $6000.00 but that is just me. I love to fabricate.

I also think more will be inclined to pay the extra and get in the air sooner...so lets all get to building....:D


Stan

[Brent_Brown]

Come on the push rod are done. I don't see how that kit can meet 51% rule. What do you make?

[Steve McGowan]

Someone that knows what they're doin can assemble this kit in less than
100 hrs.

Now mind you...... less the paint, wiring and electronics..

This pre-assembly work at GBA takes a lotta work outta putting it together.

[r.coplen]

Brent,

It is my understanding that there are several issues the FAA is taking a very close look at concerning the 51% rule. These issues will affect a number of the kits in production and some that were classified as 51% build may lose their 51% status according to a recent EAA article.

1. Many manufactures offer a builder assist where you spend a 40 hour one week vacation visit to the factory and you do some work as directed and they do the other 2000 hours work. You than have an airplane the goes 200 mph plus. The FAA views this as really a manufactured aircraft that gets around the certification process. They are going to go after that type of program.

2. They are looking for the kit built planes to have some differences between each aircraft that reflect the personal choices of the builder. I see that on every SparrowHawk. There is not one instrument panel that is the same as another one. Night lights, placards, paint jobs, strobe lights, avionics are all unique to the builder. Many Sparrowhawk owner will add a number of additional instruments that GBA has never thought of.

3. There are a number of sub-sections in the SparrowHawk. The FAA looks for the builder to be meaningfully involved in 51% of the sections in some of the fabrication and or assembly of each of these sections. An example might be the "Rotor head". From a safety point of view the rotor head is built by GBA. But there are sub-assemblies that attach onto the rotor head such as the rpm sensor. You would get credit for fabrication and assembly of that section.

Even though the keel is mostly built up there is still a number fabrication and assembly steps needed to complete it and so you would get credit for that. The FAA is looking for meaningful fabrication and assembly that the builder is involved in doing in each section.

My understanding is that the FAA indicated that the SparrowHawk kit exceeded the 51% rule by a good safety margin. This is not final until they deliver their final ruling document. They also left a feeling that it was one of the better kits they had seen.

[r.coplen]

Steve,

For me the hard part has always been the wiring. I bet we spent 300 hours doing and redoing the wiring in Mariah. The new kit has the wiring harness fully fabricated with each wire coded for its attachment point, cut to the correct length and with the correct fasteners attached. I think it will be less than two days to wire the new kit even with avionics. We'll see if I'm right.

[D.DRESSLER]

Looks like the horizontal and vertical stabs are constructed as well - given Heather's pics. That was a close second to the wiring. I'm still coughing up dust!

[Hognose]

David --

The prefab tail came in with the Sparrowhawk II. On the "I" (or "just plain Sparrowhawk") it was an expensive ($975?) option. Before they made it standard they had several show specials where they'd thrown in the prefab tail.

The other thing people bit--- er, squawked about on the original kit was the landing gear. That was also addressed in the Sparrowhawk II.

If they've really been thinking (and they probably have been) one of the things that they did in the II-III upgrade is improving their manufacturing processes to take some of the expensive labour hours out of the kit. (That's a key part of the periodic revisions of Cirrus aircraft, among many others).

Randy --

Thanks very much for posting this information. Unfortunately, the company hasn't exactly excelled itself at getting the word out on this important upgrade. The only reason I knew the Sport Hawk and Shadow Hawk were coming is that I read the 10-Ks. As far as I know, they still haven't done a PR. D'oh!

cheers

-=K=-

[Heather Poe]

http://www.groenbros.com/Reports/GBAForm10-KSB6-30-07.pdf

The Company has therefore initiated the design of a new light gyroplane, called the SportHawk that would meet the LSA regulations.

Consistent with the design advances that are being incorporated into the SportHawk for the civilian market, and with the knowledge gained by these discussions with potential customers, as mentioned above, the Company has initiated design of a corresponding SportHawk derivative directed toward government markets, which it is naming the ShadowHawk Gyroplane.

[route66]

Heather, Randy and all, I am so happy to see the progresses made by GBA with their S/H. From what I have seen of the company and its products I feel they are always moving forward and making changes to make it better. This quick-build is one of their advancements and I do hope Randy can give all of us a blow by blow of his build on a thread here on the forum for everyone to experience. I look forward to it and Heathers build which will show both sides. Thanks for sharing.

[PTKay]

http://www.groenbros.com/Reports/GBAForm10-KSB6-30-07.pdf

The Company has therefore initiated the design of a new light gyroplane, called the SportHawk that would meet the LSA regulations.


I read the document carefully,
except of the one sentence on LSA,
the picture is rather deem... :(

Broke soon ????

[r.coplen]

David Dressler

The tail assembly is built up to the point that it is ready to go to the paint shop.

PTKay

As mainly an aviation R & D company they have had insufficient income to sustain operations for 15 years. One of the reasons R & D companies look bad financially is that they don't put an asset value on their ideas. GBA has large teams of engineers, designers, and project managers working on only projects involved in autorotative flight. What are some of the ideas that have cost 80 million dollars:

1. They hold patents on collective pitch control for Gyroplanes. Demonstrated on the Hawk 4. This gives you very short roll or no roll take off.

2. They have engineered the R & D for the Heliplane and are now moving into showing that their technology will vertically take off, hover, vertically land and fly up to 400 mile per hour. This technology is scaleable and the company has all commercial rights to that technology.


I think GBA's technology is worth a lot more than 80 million dollars and it seems that a lot of investor types do too because David has always been able to get investment funds when he needs them.

GBA is the worlds leading autrotative flight R & D company and has much propiatary information that is not public. GBA will be of great value to the aviation world in the future.

[raytork]

Why is there no information about the SHIII on the GBA or AA web sites?

[r.coplen]

Raytork,

GBA has to receive the Quick Build approval documents from the FAA before they can promote the SparrowHawk III. My understanding is that they should be coming in four or five weeks. Even though there was an expressed approval they have to hold off marketing until than.

[PTKay]

Randy,

you are absolutely right.
The, so called, "goodwill" is very difficult
to put into accounting books.

The same with patents and technology.

I wish them the best, but fear
for their future, once the investors
stall on prolonging the B issue stocks
deadline...

:(

PTKay

[r.coplen]

There is also the opportunity for conversion to common stock if there is a lack of capital. All the stock holders, whether preferred or common, are looking for the best return. In the long term the best return is the long term development of the autorotative flight.

[GyroDoug]

Robin Wilson will also give a presentation on the “Sport Hawk” and the “Shadow Hawk”. The “Sport Hawk” is a tandem, fully enclosed two-seat gyro that is being designed and will be manufactured for the Light Sport Aircraft Market. The “Shadow Hawk” will be brought to market as a surveillance aircraft for law enforcement.
r.coplen@comcast.net

Randy,

This is the first I have heard anything about Groen Bros. working on a light tandem 2 seater. How can someone who won't be able to be there for the presentation get some information on this new project? I would love to learn more about this Gyro.

Gyro Doug

[r.coplen]

Doug,

Robin Wilson came to the open house and told the group the following information.

SportHawk is in the beginning design stages. The have decide that it will be a composite, 2 seater, factory manufactured, tandem, Light Sport Aircraft. Robin said that GBA was watching and very supportive of the Xenon application to the FAA for the sale of a manufactured Light Sport Gyroplane after January 31 2008. Robin said it would be several years before the SportHawk is ready for market. The engine will be a light weight certified engine with a little more than 100 horse power. They will be looking at two or three engine options.

ShadowHawk will be based on the same basic design as the SportHawk. He said they will extend the length maybe by two feet and add an additional 100 horse power. The ShadowHawk will have the GBA patented collective pitch and be very shot take-off. It will be equipped with all the equipment presently used in current law enforcement light helicopters. When the ShadowHawks comes to market I believe it will cost about half the cost of a light helicopter and operate at a half to a third the cost of the current law enforcement helicopter. Robin indicated that the ShadowHawk might become a certified aircraft.

Thanks for the questions Doug. That is what I know.