A Falcon is hatched. [Archive]

animal

12-14-2007, 02:37 PM

well after a lot of thought I have decided to build a Falcon gyro from a kit.

I bought the kit the John Richardson, He had purchased a year ago but decided to put up for sale.

Thanks John for a good deal on it.

Pic# 1 guess whats in the Truck.
Pic# 2 man what a box
Pic# 3 a lot of parts that will make a Gyro.
Pic# 4 vertical stab.

I will add more photos as the build progresses.

should be intresting as the Falcon kit did not include a contruction manual.

the workmanship of the parts look great and I think when I am done I will have a nice machine.

GyroDoug

12-14-2007, 02:49 PM

Tim,

I am so excited for you. I remember when I got my first box of tubing, I had a hard time going to sleep at night because my brain just wouldn't slow down and stop thinking about it. Keep up the pictures and a narative as your project progresses so we can all learn from what happens. Best of luck!!!!

Gyro Doug

animal

12-14-2007, 02:56 PM

Thanks I will need the luck for sure... lol

I am first going to inventory all the parts and put them on shelfs in the shop.

my second step is I want to polish all the tubeing and then start the assembly.

I will take pics of every step. I also plan to video tape the build since I don't really have anyone to take the pics of me building it and the FAA requires proof who built it. I figure a video would be all the proof required.

plus later when it is done it will be fun to go back and watch.

Paul_Zurawski

12-14-2007, 04:03 PM

Congrats Tim...keep us posted.

dick

12-14-2007, 04:21 PM

Hi Tim, believe it or not there are some here who like building Gyros better then flying........Best of luck............Have fun.........Dick :yo:

GyroRon

12-14-2007, 04:41 PM

I see something in one of those pictures.... something white! Wonder if it will fit in the back of the Titan Tornado?

animal

12-14-2007, 04:45 PM

it very well might. have to see some time won't we.

here's a better view of it.

GyroRon

12-14-2007, 05:41 PM

Tim, what is the identifier of that airport you live near? Whats you # again?

Timchick

12-14-2007, 08:14 PM

Tim,
Congrats. You should also start a builder's logbook documenting the build.

John Stahl

12-14-2007, 10:10 PM

Tim
Glad to see you are going to get in the air again
Your photos bring back memories

dragonflyerthom

12-15-2007, 01:41 AM

Tim

Like Dick said, there are some that really enjoy building. Have fun on yours my friend. I have waited on this for months. You are really doing it. Post pics.

ben

12-15-2007, 03:25 AM

best of luck tim

Racer

12-15-2007, 07:47 AM

Man Tim, if you were not so far away I would come down to your shop and help you unpack all your new parts and start polishing with you. How exciting for you, Have fun

animal

12-15-2007, 01:05 PM

well I spent this cold day in my shop with my wood stove I installed a few weeks ago fired up and smokeing up the shop..lol

anyway the plan was to video tape and photo the progress and started a builders log.

builders log and photos ok, to bad the Video camera is so old that it crapped out. looked like it was recording till I took the tape back in the house and tryed to play it.

anyway I took my time and hand polished the keel tubes and Axels tubes and keel plates. worked several hours and the results are worth the extra effort.

on my build log I logged the start and end time of each assembly.

anyway here are some pics of the work completed today.

more pics to come as I get this Gyro built.

next step will be the front keel and mast.

barnstorm2

12-15-2007, 01:51 PM

Great stuff!! Keep it coming!

animal

12-15-2007, 02:18 PM

looking good there Tim. What a nice winter project.

Stan
Thanks Stan, I hope tomorrow to get some more done, whats a challange is this kit has no builder manual,so I have to look at pics of other falcons that I have saved from differant places to see where and how things go.

I have a few Ideas of my own that I want to do, one is mount the Horz. stab on a stinger that will come up and back at about a 45degree angle and mount the Horz, stab on top of it, maybe even make the mount inflight adjustable in pitch trim.
this would put the horz. back more and the winglets in more clean air. as I do plan to do a fully enclosed version.

dragonflyerthom

12-15-2007, 02:33 PM

Nice. Starting to look up Buddy. Keep em coming. It seems right so far Tim.

animal

12-16-2007, 12:28 PM

well today I got some more done.
Polished the front keel tube and mounted it to the drop keel plates.
Also installed the keel to axel braces

here are a some pics.

pic #1 positioning front keel.

Pic #2 bolting front keel in place after getting the bolts started.

pic #3 front keel bolted in place.

Pic #4 left axel brace in place.

Pic #5 me bolting the Right axel brace in place.

dragonflyerthom

12-16-2007, 02:31 PM

Good Looking Front wheel. More close up please.

animal

12-16-2007, 07:47 PM

yeah Stan, I am enjoying the build so far, I had the wood stove cooking today and really got down to it. I need to get some stuff sold to have more funds for my build.

Thom I will get a close up of the nose wheel tomorrow, it is really nicely built.

animal

12-17-2007, 03:09 PM

well today I got alot more done.

here are a few pics.

pic #1 working on the rudder pedal mounts.

pic #2 pedals mounted.

pic #3 installed the mast.

Pic #4 installed mast support tubes.

Pic #5 - 6 mast support tubes.

Pic # 7 Installing seat tank.

Pic #8 close up of nose gear.

jjp77tex

12-17-2007, 04:22 PM

Don Parham has a EA-82 he is selling for a widow. It would make a good match for your FALCON.:wave:

animal

12-17-2007, 04:24 PM

Don Parham has a EA-82 he is selling for a widow. It would make a good match for your FALCON.:wave:

yeah I saw that, just right now I don't have the funds, I need to get my custom van and the Harley Sportster sold.

BTW do you have any detail pics from when you built your Falcon. this one has no builders manual. need info on control stick mounting and how the tall tail mounts. the Horz. stab that came with it has a bearing or bushing of some type pressed in it, I will have to rework that and I am not planing to use that stab on it.

any close up detail pics you can send me to my E-mail would be great.

giro5

12-17-2007, 04:25 PM

Nice pictures animal. I think you and kandace won't be taking 2 years to build one like I did.

animal

12-17-2007, 05:20 PM

Nice pictures animal. I think you and kandace won't be taking 2 years to build one like I did.
Thanks my goal is I hope to have it ready by spring or mid summer, just depends how funds and finding parts go.

scottessex

12-18-2007, 02:29 AM

Tim, what engine are you going to use?

Gyropilot007

12-18-2007, 02:54 AM

Tim:

Congratulations on a GREAT project. Looks like you're doing a good job so far. I can't wait until you have that baby flying.

Bob

animal

12-18-2007, 06:28 AM

Tim, what engine are you going to use?

After talking with Don Parham and Ed alderfer, I am leaning towards an EJ-22 with Direct drive, and go with a 2 blade warp drive ground adjustable prop 54-60" I first wanted an EA-82 with redrive, but after talking to Ron about the enclosed falcon he flew he said it seemed a bit under powered. that 100 h..p. EA-81 on E-bay with a redrive would be sweet, but until the van or the sporty sells I will be at a stand still shortly.

Falcon

12-18-2007, 01:39 PM

Hey great to hear about your project. I haven't been online for awhile or I would have posted sooner. Keep me up to date, and if you have any questions I will be more than happy to help if I can.

Gary

animal

12-18-2007, 01:43 PM

HI Gary, any close up pics of your control linkages and control stick mount would be great.also pics of your engine ,mount and details of how the tall tail mounts both top and bottom.

thanks

scottessex

12-18-2007, 02:10 PM

GyroRon

12-18-2007, 05:26 PM

I would rather fly a Good condition properly installed Rotax 2 stroke than most Auto engine conversions myself. Most auto conversions are poorly executed.

Scott, I think your Harley engine idea would be great for the Animal!

Brent_Brown

12-18-2007, 05:56 PM

I know that drive can be flipped over getting the 217 pounds about the TL.

animal

12-19-2007, 07:32 PM

Just out of curiosity, what is the weight and HP of the EJ22?

I guess as opposed to using a rotax 582 weight vs HP.

I understand if you don't like 2 strokes etc, do you have the blades yet?

I think you should pony up the coin and use one of these, that way you won't feel so bad when you sell your bike. :)

Don't tempt me..lol I wonder if it would last any time on a gyro, i think cooling might be a problem.

what H.P. and cost range is the drive, I am sure i can find or build a good Evo engine.

animal

12-19-2007, 07:37 PM

No blades yet, got to get a few things sold. right now in a holding pattern till after the holidays. in fact at this point I can't even get that Horz. stab. got the money for it, but not the shipping. Hubert said he will hold it for me. I am also wondering if the blades he has would work, the only thing I don't trust is they are mountd to an RAF hub bar and I don't know how to tell if it is one of the bars that can break. the price is right but heck they might even be to big. 13 foot each with out hub bar. might could machine my own hub.

GyroRon

12-19-2007, 07:44 PM

dragonflyerthom

12-19-2007, 07:50 PM

28 footer. Hey Tim

That hub bar is good for the weight you will be having. I have the ADs on that and it was the AN bolt and a washer with seating more that the Bar itself. Hey I plan on changing mine every hundred hours. I think they are about 5 bucks each. Need two.

Hope to be seeing more pics soon. That really is a nice front wheel assembly.

animal

12-19-2007, 07:53 PM

I be coming soon to get that stab Tim. Maybe you could see if one of the guys from LA is going to Bensen Days and have one of them bring it there for you, and I can pick it up and bring it here for you. It would be a few months before you need it anyway right? How much was shipping?

Ron he got a quote of $187.00 to ship, he is checking other places also.
the stab I have is yours once i have closed this deal for sure. until I get the money sent to him it is not a done deal. I am just waiting now for him to send me his mailing addy to get a check out to him.

btw I measured that stab for ya. it is 40" wide and 17" deep, I think you should be able to get it in your plane.

GyroRon

12-19-2007, 08:00 PM

animal

12-19-2007, 08:14 PM

Well Tim, we have a deal, I hope you close that deal soon as I will be needing that stab in a week or two! :)

Did you guys check into having it shipped UPS? I know they will do large packages. That stab can't be too big for them.....

yeah Ron that was the quote from ups.

and yeah I remember our deal of how you want me to give you my stab ,since you had called dibbs on the one Hubert has.

You will get this stab once I close the deal and not before.
like I said I will not be useing it.

but if you keep being pushy I will tell Hurbert to forget it and you can buy it and I will sell my stab and just make my own.

for some one that does not even own the stab. you sure are being pushy.

I know you can buy it and take it to bensen days and resell it for more. and thats fine. you told me that. but I will be honest if it is gonna cost out the butt to get it shipped I may be better to pass, then I also won't have to deal with you being pushy about it.

anyway I am going to bed now, been a stressful day. ex playmate stalking me. so not in the best mood to discuss anything right now.

if you want to fly your high speed plane to huberts and pick up that stab that would be fine too. but my plan was once i had the money sent to hubert and it was a done deal I was going to tell you to come get it. if it was not the plan I sure would not have gotten you the measurements.
so just be pataint, the world does not revolve around Ron.

scottessex

12-20-2007, 01:53 AM

Have you checked with DHL for shipping? UPS is pretty steep on large items.

GyroRon

12-20-2007, 04:59 AM

Tim, you need to chill out man.

ben

12-20-2007, 05:13 AM

try grayhound cheapest i found yet

scottessex

12-20-2007, 05:18 AM

try grayhound cheapest i found yet

You could pay one of those busline Hobo's an extra 10 spot to keep an eye on it. :)

animal

12-20-2007, 08:30 AM

Ok just an update, yeah I am under alot of stress right now and took Ron's post wrong. he called me and we have it cleared up. at first it looked like he was rushing me. I am just waiting to get the mailing address for Hubert to send him the check for the Stab. to close my deal and then I am looking forward to Ron getting the Stab that came with my kit and letting him check over my project and getting some input from him on how to mount my tall tail.
this kit as mentioned before did not come with a contruction manual,and honestly since I never figured I could afford to build a new tall tail gyro, I never really looks to see how they are mounted on other Gyro's
this Horz. stab has a sphere bearing molded into it on the bottom,but since i won't be useing this Stab I am going to have to design a block or insert on top of the keel to hold a bearing and then design something for the top brace.
this kit is a bit of a challange, but I enjoy a good design challange and since I have a mill - lathe I can make what I need.

Beside I am looking forward to seeing Ron's design when done. I think the stab I have is going to look and fly good on his design. it is 40" wide and 17" deep and sweeps back. for his machine should be perfect. but with my planning on a body on mine. it just looks way to small.

Thom I will get some close up pics today of the soft link to the steering on my nose gear. it is simple and others like kandace may want to use it on thier gyros.

it's kind of warm today. so I am going to cut some fire wood for awhile then work on the gyro some.

fly safe ya'll

animal

12-20-2007, 08:34 AM

try grayhound cheapest i found yet

had not thought about that. I had a ham radio shipped by them along time ago and it got to me just fine.

rfi

12-20-2007, 09:25 AM

animal

12-20-2007, 09:38 AM

Tim,
Two suggestions:
1) Don't use a Warp Drive prop on a direct drive engine. I tested many props over the years and the only props to use for direct drive are the Tennessee or Culver wood props.

2) I shipped all of my horizontal stabs by Greyhound bus. Cost was about $25-$30.

from the E-mail from Hubert today..

TIm,
I'll look into the Greyhound bus lines, but I don't have one close to
me. Matter of fact, there is nothing close to me!!:-)

I hope he can find one $25-$30 sounds real good to me.

Don how did you pack them?

thanks

rfi

12-20-2007, 01:12 PM

Tim,
We made a simple frame out of 1x2 lumber and used shrink wrap to secure it in the frame.

billygyro

12-20-2007, 01:51 PM

hello Don,
now i have a question , why would you suggest not to put a warp drive on a direct engien, could you tell me the pro's and con's please? this is what i intended to do with my EA-82. is it becuase the warp is so stiff and not a lot of flex? i had found a wood prop fro it- but i wanted a 3 blade instead of a 2.
what could you advise on this matter please. thanks billygyro.

jjp77tex

12-20-2007, 06:00 PM

I received a stab from Don via bus..great idea..arrived PERFECT..If Don says something you cant take it to the bank..:wave:

animal

12-20-2007, 07:50 PM

is it just me or whats wrong with this picture?

I think the mast is to short.

now granted I don't have the control rods hooked up but with the rotorhead tilted fully back I laid a tape measure across it and ran it back and it came down about 5" below the top of my rudder. I have the rudder sitting on a spacer that is the same thickness of the Horz. stab that it would normally mount to.

I swear I think I am going to have to buy a new mast that is taller. this one is 64" from where it mounts to the keel plates.

Timchick

12-20-2007, 07:59 PM

Tim,
That thing is going together real fast. If you plan on using Dragon Wings remember the hub bar has some coning angle built into it so the rotors will not be that low.

animal

12-20-2007, 08:16 PM

Tim,
That thing is going together real fast. If you plan on using Dragon Wings remember the hub bar has some coning angle built into it so the rotors will not be that low.

yeah but I swear looking at pic of other falcons the mast looks taller.

I did measure about where the prop would be and as the support brace is right now I could get a 64" prop on it and still have 1 inche clearance at the top and bottom.

but I am just thinking if my blades flapped down I could very well take my tail of not to mention take out my blades.

Timchick

12-20-2007, 09:02 PM

Measure the heighth of your tail and post it so some of the other Falcon guys can compare it to theirs.

PS. Why would your blades flap?

Racer

12-20-2007, 09:30 PM

Wow, You are making fast progress, Kinda like a biker build off show, only with a Gyro, Way cool animal

Brent_Brown

12-21-2007, 03:58 AM

GyroRon

12-21-2007, 03:59 AM

animal

12-21-2007, 05:36 AM

I e-mailed Neal Carnes last night, he was prompt to e-mail me back

I asked him if the body was still available and how much. as you know that was one of the main reason I chose to build a Falcon.

Well leave it to Vortech to false advertise again. they have the body listed for $1,495, yet Neal said the last Body they made they had to cut the mold in two to get it out so at this time he said the body is not available.

I replyed back an Told him that made me very unhappy as Vortech still has it listed .

update. while I was typeing this Neal did E-mail me back and said he had a Body that he made for a guys helicopter but the firewall may have to be changed to fit my mast angle, the guy never paid for it. so I am just waiting to see what he say on that if it can be made to fit. maybe there is hope still.

now to get my van sold. just got the Title back for it yesterday.

also I need input, to rise my head up some, instead of cutting new cheek plates I was thinking of makeing new pivot mount plate,I guess thats what you call them, the part that mounts between the check plates that the head tilts side to side on. with my milling machine this would be very east to make and would also give me a solid mounting area to experiment with an engine driven shaft prerotor.

animal

12-21-2007, 05:44 AM

I think that with short blades - 23-25 footers - the mast you have now will probably be okay. Go with 28 footers and I bet you will need a taller mast.

Tim, who is taking those pictures of you wrenching on that thing? Are you setting the timer on the camera and running back in front and making it look like your doing something? ;) :)

I REALLY need some pictures of that stab. My KB-3 rudder came yesterday and it mounts to the top of the keel and the stab would not be able to go directly underneath the rudder and still on the top of the keel. It may have to go on the bottom of it. Or be cut in half and somehow attached to the sides of the keel.

Ron a biker chick I know is takening the pics. some I have the camera on the tripod and she pushs the button and some she just holding the camera. I can't run that fast to set the timer and run, it's only a 10 second timer..lol

besides Ron, even if I could run that fast and use the Timer, it is clear I am doing something...where just not sure what still..lmao
sure wish this thing had a construction manual.

I will get some good pics of that Horz. stab for ya today when I go back down to the shop.
if it came to it I don't think you would have a problem mounting it under your keel.

animal

12-21-2007, 06:13 AM

64" mast and a 6" drop you should be good for 60" prop for sure. But when I make my tall tails they are the same as the prop so when mounted they are 1 to 2" below the prop tip. and mount the rudder 6" behind the prop.

Just looking at your photos the tail looks to tall to me. Maybe that was a two place tail and no one noticed. I would call Neal.

You know you may be right, it may be a 2 place tail. one thing about it, if I have to rise the head some to get clearance I don't mind,as I at least know I can get a big prop on the gyro if I do go with a redrive. not to discourged just from pics of other falcons it looked like the mast was taller. I will go out in awhile and measure from the floor to top of mast and also measure the tall tail it's self.

rfi

12-21-2007, 07:37 AM

Billygyro,
I ran thrust tests on a dual carb EA81 with 3-blade Warp Drive and IvoProp ground adjustable props plus Culver and Tennessee 2-blade wood props. The two blade wood props won hands down with 20-25% more static thrust.

Back when the EA81 was first used direct drive on gyros most of the guys started with 3-blade Warp Drive props of 52-54 inches diameter. The gyros wouldn't fly. After going to a two blade Tennessee or Culver prop the ships would get off the ground.

rfi

12-21-2007, 07:56 AM

Tim,
That tall tail looks like the one from my RF170 gyro design which is 66 inches tall. With that vertical stabilizer the rotor blades on the on the RF170 were 10 feet off the ground. I designed it that way to allow for a 76 inch diameter prop and in addition moving the rotors up that far made for a near CLT gyro.

You can increase the height of your rotor head at least 18 inches without extending the length of the mast. I did it on my Falcon type gyro years ago. Just use 5/16 cheek plate material and put a short section of 2x2 tubing horizontally halfway in between the top of the mast and the rotor head for a stiffner.

Look at the RAF 2000 mast. The upper section is just 1/8 inch plate and 2x2 spacers every so often and it works fine.

animal

12-21-2007, 08:40 AM

Hi Don, thanks for the Input, here are the Number I have.

The tall tail is 63" top to bottom..

from the ground to the teeter bolt is 7' 6"

the distance between my keel and the top support tube 6" in front of the Tail is 66".

where it is now at the mast is 68" so a 64" prop would clear with one inche top and bottom.

I am looking at 28 or 29 foot blades.

rfi

12-21-2007, 10:01 AM

Tim,
I think you will have to raise your rotor head around 2 feet to adequately clear the tail and for 28-29 ft. rotor blades to adequately clear the ground.

If you have an inclinometer, Smart level, or Warp Drive prop pitch gadget you can determine how high the teeter bolt should be above the ground. If you take a piece of tubing (1x2) and lay it over the top of the tail and set it at about a 30 degree angle, that is where the teeter bolt should be.

That is taking into consideration a maximum of 20 degrees pitch back plus another 10 degrees teeter. If you make teeter stops for your rotor head you can reduce that a bit.

The name of the game is to get a good pre-rotator and keep the joystick at the front stop until you have at least 100-150 rpm before moving the stick back. I think that is the requirement on the RAF 2000.

animal

12-21-2007, 11:21 AM

Tim,
If you have an inclinometer, Smart level, or Warp Drive prop pitch gadget you can determine how high the teeter bolt should be above the ground. If you take a piece of tubing (1x2) and lay it over the top of the tail and set it at about a 30 degree angle, that is where the teeter bolt should be.

That is taking into consideration a maximum of 20 degrees pitch back plus another 10 degrees teeter. If you make teeter stops for your rotor head you can reduce that a bit.

Ok Don I just went out and put an inclinmeter on it and this it what I got.

with the rotorhead blocked up so it was stright up and down with the mast, which is set at 10 degrees .

I got 25 degrees off the top of the rudder to the center of the teeter bolt.
I then rised the bar to an angle of 30 degrees off the rudder and that put my
end of the tube 4" above the teeter bolt as it is now.

Now again with out makeing new plates, could I just machine new front and rear rotorhead pivot mounts that go between the check plates?

Reason I ask is I already have some 6061-T6 bar stock I can make them with and could do that in one evening where as if I make new cheek plates I will have to order some plate material. I can if I need to.

But if I can make do with what I have then that would be easyer.
Since I only need another 4" I would think it would work ok.

I am looking at 13 foot each blades and mount them to a 1 or 2 foot hub bar.
I don't really trust the RAF hub bar thats with them as I have heard of some failures.

rfi

12-21-2007, 11:52 AM

animal

12-21-2007, 12:15 PM

Tim,
I wouldn't recommend that approach for a couple of reasons. One is that the top of the cheek plates provide a stop for the rotor head to limit its travel from side to side (+/- 7-8 degrees).

BTW, you will have to make new cheek plates anyway, because with an EJ22 engine on the airframe the rotor head should sit just about directly above the mast or even possibly slightly behind to get the CG in the proper place.

I suggest that you make a set of "test" cheek plates with multiple holes for the rotor head to get the CG dialed in before you make permanent ones.

Another suggestion is that you might need to move the main axle back 3 or 4 inches to keep the nose wheel on the ground with that heavier engine. That was one of the modifications I usually had to make when adapting a Subaru engine to an airframe designed for a lightweight two stroke.

yeah I figure to limit the side travel to bolt a stop made out of angle up there.

I noted on Gary's falcon it looks like his cheek plates are mounted faceing backwards.

needless to say I am starting to get discourgared, I mean gees I am starting to think I have to do the whole thing over, and thats not makeing me very happy right now since I already have the axel and braces mounted and done.
and now gonna have to make new cheek plates and maybe even a new mast.

Not to happy right now.

$3,000 plus for a kit that half can't even be used.

gyromike

12-21-2007, 12:41 PM

I'd be pissed if I paid $3,000 for a kit and had to start redoing so many parts so soon.

I can understand a little 'cutting and fitting', but to miss the mast length by 2 feet!?! :eek:

animal

12-21-2007, 12:48 PM

I'd be pissed if I paid $3,000 for a kit and had to start redoing so many parts so soon.

I can understand a little 'cutting and fitting', but to miss the mast length by 2 feet!?! :eek:
yeah not to mention I may not even be able to get the body and that was one of the main reasons I wanted a Falcon.

and now Don says I need to move the axel back. nice to know after I already have my axel mounted and braced.

not happy! but to far into it to quit now. just got the money order today for that Parham Stab. just gonna have to get some stuff sold to buy more parts.

And to think,I thought this was going to be a simple fun build from a fully engineered kit. looks like I was wrong again.

Brent_Brown

12-21-2007, 01:08 PM

Tim get that 582 or 618. with that no axle to move. no super long blades that dive like a bus.
I would not do anything till I had an engine on it with the prop.
I'm not sure what is used for the spar in the tall but mine could be cut down without much to do.

animal

12-21-2007, 01:19 PM

I do not like or want a 2 cycle engine. I will just have to do what it takes to make it like I want it. just was not expecting to do this much to a kit that says it uses a subaru or rotax engine. I just hope I can still get the Body. I don't want an open frame machine.

be honest I have not even ridden in an open frame machine in years.
I wanted the body so I could put doors on it and fly it year round.
I ride bikes enough to know the wind beats ya to death at speeds over 60.
I wanted to build a safe comfortable year round flying machine.

rfi

12-21-2007, 01:42 PM

Tim,
I wouldn't do anything until I got the body. It may be enough weight to offset the extra weight of the EJ22 engine. Neal has built at least a couple of Falcons with an EJ22 engine on them.

What happens with putting a heavy 4-stroke on an airframe designed for a 2-stroke is that you have to move the rotor head back to get the control range right. That also moves back the rotor blades, so you have a heavier engine, the rotor head and blades (around 100 lbs.) moved back 3 or 4 inches, so the airframe may sit on the tail wheel with the pilot in the seat.

I put an EJ22 on a side-by-side Air Command and had to move the axle back 6 inches plus put the battery in front of the joystick between the pilot's legs to get some weight on the nose wheel.

If you decide to go with an EJ22 I have engine mount drawings if you need them.

animal

12-21-2007, 02:30 PM

Well Ron Awad called me, since he will be getting my Horz stab that came with the Falcon kit, he said if I will hop in my car and bring it to him tomorrow he would give me 2 hours in his Dominatior. now of course this is not logable air time, but it would let me see how I can handle the open air machine and also would be my first flight in a CLT machine.

so it looks like I will be makeing a trip out to see how a Dominatior flys.

heck it can't cost that much for me to run out there and back in my Subaru.

it's supposed to be kind of chilly, so I guess I will just take my leathers that I wear when I am rideing and I should be good.

So I guess tomorrow I will know how I like the open air machine. who knows I might like it.

Worse case Ron gets gets some black mail pics of me after I crap my self..lol

GyroRon

12-21-2007, 03:36 PM

Tim specifically requested..... NO DEATH SPIRALS!!!! ;)

animal

12-21-2007, 03:43 PM

Tim specifically requested..... NO DEATH SPIRALS!!!! ;)
vertical desents maybe, I liked them in the RAF. who knows if I get comfortable in the gyro I may have him do one just to see how it feels.

I use to ride with an airshow pilot friend many years ago in his pitts.

but again a pitts you are not strapped to an open frame..lol

Ron says I will probably enjoy it the open frame and I probably will.

I still would like to make mine enclosed, but at least if I enjoy the open frame flight I will feel better about my gyro project.

I do have to admit that the way the falcon sits on the ground I don't think I would have a problem taxiing it. and with that Parham stab on the back and CLT my gyro should be rock solid in flight.

so I guess we will see.

Timchick

12-21-2007, 04:07 PM

Open frame flying around 55mph is great. That's my comfortable cruising speed. I like the open frame because it gives you an unrestricted view. I do think a pod and windshield would be good in colder weather flying.

Tim, Have you considered putting a Dominator pod and windshield on it?

jjp77tex

12-21-2007, 04:13 PM

You will love your FALCON. Welcome to the word "experimental'. Understanding and solving these design problems and options is half the fun.
:yo:

animal

12-21-2007, 04:15 PM

Tim, Have you considered putting a Dominator pod and windshield on it?

Tim ,when Ron and I talked he even suggested the same thing.

Neal does have a body he made for a helicopter but the firewall is made differant,at this point I would even take it and cut the firewall completely out.

and just refiberglass the firewall back in or maybe just leave it out.

I am getting alot of support from people here on the Forum in both E-mails and phone calls and I want to thank everyone for thier help and ideas.

one thing about it, if I did go open frame, that EA82 and drive combo the Don is selling would sure make this gyro a hot rod.

but that would also depend if I get my van or my sporty sold in time to buy it.

anyone need a hightop conversion van or custom antique harley?

animal

12-21-2007, 04:23 PM

Jack do you have any pics from when you built your? if so can you E-mail them to me.

any and all info greatly excepted.

send to ncra@bellsouth.net

thanks

GyroRon

12-21-2007, 05:42 PM

Tim, I checked the weather, looks like it might not be a day at the beach, but I am sure we will get to squeeze in some Dominatoring. Come early if you can, I should be there around 10:30ish

animal

12-21-2007, 05:47 PM

Tim, I checked the weather, looks like it might not be a day at the beach, but I am sure we will get to squeeze in some Dominatoring. Come early if you can, I should be there around 10:30ish
I don't know if I can get away that early but I will try. I was going to try and get there about 1:00.

if thats to late let me know.

animal

12-21-2007, 05:54 PM

Stan I will be lucky to even get this thing built, I am still basicly unemployeed.
I am building this with my last nest egg, the money from my land sale and the money I will get from selling my sportster and my van.
it would be nice to go to mentone sometime but who knows what the future holds.

GyroRon

12-21-2007, 06:17 PM

It's not too late, just saying I will be there earlier. I plan to be there till dark

GyroRon

12-22-2007, 03:20 PM

Well, I don't know if Animal is a open frame convert or not.....

He was kinda scared about the whole thing, especially since I have no shoulder straps... But once we got up and out of the pattern he seemed to be not worried about it one bit.

I even tried to scare him a little with some steep turns and the death spiral and he just laughed and said it was great.

I think he really liked the low level flying we did, hopping from field to field, even doing a touch and go in a mowed down corn field.

He had the controls all to himself rather quickly, and by the end of our flight he had total control of the ship.

My Dominator is manual trim, and the trim is set for solo flight, so when two up the pilot has to hold a fair amount of backpressure to hold the nose level, this tired him out but all in all he liked it.

I even gave him a Birdy like G spot landing at the end!

I don't know whats going through Tims head right now, but hopefully he will see that maybe keeping with the original intent of the airframe he has, going with open frame and a Rotax 2 stroke will be alot of fun and might be easy way for him to finish his life long dream of flying his own flying machine.

As a bonus he got to watch us flying the model planes we fly out there to kill time. He watched me clock with my Radar gun my newest plane at 163 mph on two separate fly-bys!

animal

12-22-2007, 03:33 PM

Tim specifically requested..... NO DEATH SPIRALS!!!! ;)

My request was ignored..lol...

no in all fairness Ron did not try and scare me, he let me get use to be out in the open first, he put me in the front seat so I would get the full feel of it.

he let me fly most of the time, but he also demoed what a Dominatior can do, starting with the death spiral.. then while we were already low I ask him to show me what low flight over the feilds was like, Ron has some great fields near his airport to play in. he then showed me the landing capabilitys of the Dom by doing a touch and go in a plowed feild with rock and stuff, he cleared the rocks, set it down rolled about 30 feet and took back off.

Oh and birdy...watch out Ron has his own G spot, he set that Dom down right in front of his hanger in the gravel.

Thanks Ron for an enjoyable flight. it was cold but fun.

P.S. thats the fastest damn R/c plane i have ever seen... yes it really was clocked at 163 m.p.h.!

OH and a Side note, for these RAF guys, you just have NO CLUE how much more stable the CLT really is.
I did not PIO one single time. it was just rock solid in flight. that tall tail is sweet did not have to even touch the Rudders, even though I did use Rudder a few times and made the turns really tight.

Even with the trim heavy, I had no problem in my turns, in fact on one turn I did over a pond, Ron asked me if I smelled that? and then said we had just flown back into our own exgusht.

After the long drive there and the fact that I did not sleep well last night I was pretty tired. we flew probably and hour or so. and I really enjoyed it except for the cold....even with my biker leathers, chaps and gloves it was cold. I am still hopeing to get a body for mine but if not at least I know I can handle being in the open air.

I had almost for got how much fun it is to be able to slow down to zero forward speed and just slowly come down.

Speaking of that. Ron's Gyro has a nice slow decent rate.

now if I had a Dom. to finish my flight training in.

If my gyro flys just half as nice as that Dominatior I will be very happy.

scottessex

12-22-2007, 04:09 PM

Way to go! Ron is a good ambassador for gyro's.
Animal, that CLT thing is pretty cool huh?
No work, just have fun flying. :)

animal

12-22-2007, 04:15 PM

Way to go! Ron is a good ambassador for gyro's.
Animal, that CLT thing is pretty cool huh?
No work, just have fun flying. :)

I will be honest, besides the heavy stick, which was from trim, that was a fun machine to fly. I bet solo it is really sweet. the falcon is not totally CLT from what I understand. but if it flys half as nice as that I will be very happy.

just flying stright and level it is just rock steady.

Now I just need to get some stuff sold so i can get my gyro finished.

scottessex

12-22-2007, 04:36 PM

I'll trade you a rotax 618 for your Harley! :D ;)

Gyro-nut

12-22-2007, 05:03 PM

Hmmm... Are ya'll calling them Death spirals just for the drama of it all, or is there an instance when you get into an unrecoverable spin with a gyro?
I do spiraling decents every time I fly ('cause they ROCK) and have yet to even come close to losing any type of control.

Granted, I don't do them on real windy days for fear of the wind catching me off guard and flipping me over on the downwind turn.

Just curious if I need to be a little more cautious when up there playing around...

GyroRon

12-22-2007, 05:16 PM

Jim, I bet you aren't doing spirals like I do them. When I do them the airspeed is at about 60 mph, the stick is hard to the right, the rudder to the right and the nose is pointed straight down. The rotors load up as in a hard turn and the manuver is perfectly controllable, and in my opinion safe - as long as you know whats going on - but 9 out of 10 people would be crapping their pants to be in a gyro with the nose pointed almost straight down. John Stevens " Screw " coined the move the Death Spiral. I guess cause they look scary to those on the ground.

Hey Tim, if Scott is willing to really trade you a engine for that bike that might be a good deal for you.... Think about how that 618 flew the both of us today. With just one person on board it is like a muscle car on nitrous. It would be great for your gyro.

I know you don't like 2 strokes, but I fly mine all over. Flown it 100 miles one way earlier this summer, and several 40-60 mile each way flights too. I trust the engine as much as any engine. Hard to beat the power to weight ratio.

Gyro-nut

12-22-2007, 05:29 PM

Based on your description Ron.... uh... you're right!! Mine aren't nearly as steep. I'm usually somewhere in the 40-50 mph range and not quite directly nose down. (maybe about 60 degrees nose down)

I'd love to see some of that footage on youtube... grab a video camera for the passenger next time you want to scare the life out of them :)

I now see how it coined the phrase. Maybe I'll get to see one of these next year at Mentone??

GyroRon

12-22-2007, 05:35 PM

Maybe at Mentone.... They run a safe fly-in there, but there are far too many people there that think they know it all and being extremely too judgemental on how the pilots that are there flying, are flying... I almost swore off going back again after this years Mentone, but I might try one more time and see if things get any better.

GyroRon

12-22-2007, 05:36 PM

Tim: sounds like you had some fun. I got a nice ride also in that machine...impressed with what that 618 can do...

Stan

Tim weights ALOT less than you Stan, so it could do alot more for Tim than it did you. I wish it would do as well with 200-220 pounds as it did with Tims 165 pound butt in the front today. It is a impressive machine

animal

12-22-2007, 06:02 PM

Stan I was very impressed, the Death Spiral was a blast,I have done spins in plane many times, but being on the nose of that gyro was a gas. I am not sure how low we pulled out at be that thing came out of the sky fast.

Thrust me jim this was no vertical desent with a rotation, as soon as Ron kicked it hard I knew what I was in for. it was the express elevatior down.
your dropping fast enough you stay in your seat. and that I am glad of since Ron only has a single push together seat belt in the front.

I will be honest, it had been so long since I rode in an open frame gyro I was really nervous. as soon as we climbed out Ron just let me get used to it some then gave me the stick and let me fly some doing some turns and climbs and desents some. then he said to let him have it and he was going to demo some manuvers.. first one was the Death Spiral..lol

I can truly say anyone that has not flown in a Dominatior does not know what they are missing. If Ernie ever puts a fully body on one, then watch out. that to me would be the perfect machine.

wait I thought this was a falcon thread....:)

animal

12-22-2007, 06:11 PM

I may still be abale to get a body ,Neal E-mailed me tonight, the body he did for the helicopter has a few imperfections, nothing major, but he said he could work a deal with me on it. it weights 35 pounds.

with the light weight of the 618, do you think it would fly ok?

it might be something to look into. the engine mount I have now I think is for a 503 rotax, how much diffearant is the mounts?

what is the horse power and weights?

GyroRon

12-22-2007, 06:48 PM

Yes, the engine mount should be the same and it is 75 horsepower and something like 130 pounds installed all up weight

Timchick

12-22-2007, 07:04 PM

Tim,
Sounds like you had a good ride. I know you're really set on getting a body but the most important thing is don't let that delay you getting into the air. You can always start flying an open frame gyro and then upgrade later on.

animal

12-22-2007, 07:32 PM

this is true Tim, at least I know I can handle being out in the open air again.

I do think I am going to still extend my mast some,even with coneing I would fell better with a bit more clearance of the tail.

As soon as it warms up some or I get the urge to fire up the wood stove early in the day to heat the shop up,I think I will start machineing a mount for my tail to the keel.
normally it bolts thru a bearing that is molded in to the Horz. stab. the same one I just gave Ron..lol

I plan to just machine a block and press a bearing into it from the bottom side and have it clamp or bolt to the keel tube.

I know one thing, this flight makes me want to work on mine even more now.

scottessex

12-23-2007, 05:41 AM

I weighed the engine it is 128lb complete, except for the radiator,
I think listed HP is 73.5,
Rons 2 place machine weighs 400lb and can easily fly another 400lb.

I am just kicking around some options and trying to decide what to do with some of this stuff I have lying around here.

Gyropilot007

12-24-2007, 06:51 AM

Ron and Animal:

Man, that ride makes me jealous. I've never rode in a open frame gyro. All my gyro experience has been in RAF's. I wonder what I'm missing?

Unforturnately, I weight about 280 so I'm not a good candidate for a demo flight. Hmmm....maybe I'll have to think about an open frame gyro as my next project.

Merry Christmas to all....and to all GOOD FLYING!!!

Bob

GyroRon

12-24-2007, 06:54 PM

Timchick

12-24-2007, 07:26 PM

Tim,
If the tail is too tall and maybe for a 2-seater, instead of raising the mast how much trouble would it be to modify the rudder and shorten it?

animal

12-24-2007, 08:06 PM

Surprised Tim didn't mention my attempt at trying to PIO the Dominator.....

Flying along at about 50 mph I jam the stick full forward and the quickly full back and then full forward, over and over about 10 cycles worth. The gyro just flew along like nothing was happening. I wonder how many RAF type gyros would get away with this test? This is what you guys who haven't flown a Dominator or simular gyro are missing. The stability is there and the manuverability is also still there. It is a win win type of thing. Bob, I'd take you up but I don't think my 618 could do it... Maybe Dave Seace could take you up in his Dominator if you come to Bensen Days 2008

yeah that is something you for sure WILL NOT DO in an RAF!

that gyro is rock steady. Ron gave me a very good demo of what CLT and a Dominatior is like. needless to say I am impressed.

I highly recommend anyone looking to buy a Gyro FLY a dominatior first!
trust me I am sold, but they are out of my price range at the moment.

I can honestly say it was more stable then a cessna 150. even with it not trimmed, it did not do a single thing I did not want it to do.

if I can get my falcon close to flying that stable I will be so happy.
would love to get more time in a dom sometime when it is warmer...:)

animal

12-24-2007, 08:08 PM

Tim,
If the tail is too tall and maybe for a 2-seater, instead of raising the mast how much trouble would it be to modify the rudder and shorten it?

Tim I called Neal at rotorhawk and he said that is the hight of the single place tail, and said they have never had a problem ,but I think I would feel a lot better with more clearance.

Brent_Brown

12-25-2007, 08:39 AM

Tim is this what you want. 250 pounds as seen with oil.

dimwit

12-29-2007, 04:15 PM

Tim. The ride that ron gave you sounds FUN FUN FUN!!!!!!!!!
It looks like everything is coming together good Just don't let the set backs get to you. Your doing outstanding work, solving the problems is just part of the fun. Good luck and have fun.

animal

12-29-2007, 04:23 PM

Tim is this what you want. 250 pounds as seen with oil.

yep brent that would be sweet, to bad I don't have the money for it, what the price on one like that?
that would be perfect.

Right now i got to get the van or my harley sportster sold.

here are some pics of the toys I need to sell.

animal

12-29-2007, 04:28 PM

Ok if I am thinking right for true CLT the trust line would go thru the pilots belly area. now correct me if I am wrong.

Now if that is the case, according to my calculations on the Falcon, that would be 29" about the top of my lower Keel tube.

this would allow me up to a 56" Prop and still be CLT.

If I go 3" above CLT point I can go up to a 64" Prop.

From my measurements it is right now 52" from my CLT point to the teeter bolt in my Rotor head, If I go to the 3" above point that would then be 48" to the teeter bolt.

So now seeing I need to rise my head a few inches for more blade clearance over the tail, how will this effect my CLT point will riseing the mast make it a higher or lower point. and if so where would I want my trust line in relation to where it is now?

All these numbers and I failed math in High school...eeekkk!

Or am I completely off on these figures?

animal

12-29-2007, 04:30 PM

animal

12-29-2007, 04:32 PM

AS has been noted here I gave Ron the Horz. stab that came with my falcon kit. it had a spherical bearing in it that the Rudder mounted to.

that being said ,I had to make a new mount. here is what I came up with.

it is an a block milled for 6061-T6 I drilled a 5/16 hole in it for the pivot bolt that goes thru it with a luck nut on it. it is mounted the same way the Horz. stab would have mounted it.

now what I want some input on is, should I put brass or teflon bushings in it or just drill and tap a hole for a grease fitting. or do both?

Brent_Brown

12-29-2007, 06:03 PM

I don't know price just looked good.

CLS447

01-20-2008, 03:13 PM

Hey Tim, thanks for putting me onto this !

Does Neil sell the stepped keel kits for the KB2 ? What's his contact info ?

Ain't building FUN ? I'll be watching this thread.

Timchick

01-20-2008, 05:04 PM

Chris,
At the bottom of this page they list a drop keel kit: http://www.vortechonline.com/gyrokits/

rfi

01-21-2008, 07:55 AM

Chris,
Neal's drop keel kit is good for the Bensen, Brock and other derivetives.

CLS447

01-21-2008, 10:50 AM

Thanks guys! I really wanted to keep my KB2 in the classic stock configuration & use an EA81 direct drive with 52/26 Tennessee prop. But since my EA81 with redrive &68" Warp will need a place to go, I may consider stepping the keel .

I will have to call & see what is included with the kit. I wonder if it includes the longer nosewheel setup also.

What is everyones opinion on the nosewheel & steering linkages on the Falcon?

CLS447

01-21-2008, 10:57 AM

Animal.....In post 56, I am wondering ,without instructions,if you have the steering linkages the way they were designed to go.

Could you reverse the heim joints , flip the angles or at least install washers under the "heads" of the heim joints?

In other words....how did you arrive at this configuration ?

Do the heims have to be loose enough to turn or is there enough movement in the joint itself ?

You have plenty of thread there. You can see that I installed thin nylocs & a washer under the "head".

Otherwise it looks like a clean setup. Those steering links remind me of a Harley shifter rod end !

Can they handle this job ? Springs look pretty soft.

Harry_S.

01-21-2008, 11:20 AM

Unforturnately, I weight about 280 so I'm not a good candidate for a demo flight. Hmmm....maybe I'll have to think about an open frame gyro as my next project.

Bob

When I started with the gyro there was only open frame home builts and they were the...cats meow, nuttin' better.

Since my RAF experience, there's no way I'd go fly an open frame again. Enclosed, no wind in the face, no goggles and no helmet...that's the way for me. Of course, I've been accused of flyin' like an old lady now, but, what's wrong with that?! How many old, bold pilots are there around? ;)

Note the newest designs...Exnon, SCII.

Cheers :)

Harry_S.

01-21-2008, 11:36 AM

Chris,

The pics in Post #123 look similar to the setup in the RAF. The springs primarily are to keep a bit of tension on the adjustment nuts?! IMO, they have no return/centering power.

Cheers :)

CLS447

01-21-2008, 12:01 PM

Yes Harry, I reverse engineered the RAF & SH setup.

It is also reversed ...my wheel is in front of the pedals. The RAF & SH are behind the pedals.

Also my steering does not count on the rudder cables being connected to work, they are independant systems.

The springs allow for a little self centering in a crab landing instead of being solidly linked. Like small shock absorbers.

Harry_S.

01-21-2008, 12:03 PM

Surprised Tim didn't mention my attempt at trying to PIO the Dominator.....

Flying along at about 50 mph I jam the stick full forward and the quickly full back and then full forward, over and over about 10 cycles worth. The gyro just flew along like nothing was happening. I wonder how many RAF type gyros would get away with this test?

I've done exactly the same as you described above with the same results...why?...because,

You, nor I didn't give the machine enough time between the fwd. and aft cycles to react to the input. Mine were intentional quick inputs. I would not do otherwise...more than one cycle anyway.

Try this next time...like you said, jam the stick forward and wait till the machine reacts with a full nose down motion and then initiate the full back with the stick, wait till the nose goes up thru the horison... then repeat. Let us know what the machine AND your reactions were.

Cheers :)

animal

01-21-2008, 12:51 PM

Hey Tim, thanks for putting me onto this !

Does Neil sell the stepped keel kits for the KB2 ? What's his contact info ?

Ain't building FUN ? I'll be watching this thread. here is neals phone number at his shop
260-748-4495

he sells a complete falcon conversion kit, Vortech markets it for him was under $500.00 and I beleive thats with the Tall tail.

animal

01-21-2008, 12:55 PM

CLS447

01-21-2008, 01:07 PM

How about a washer or something under the heim joint? Do you see what I mean?

animal

01-21-2008, 01:22 PM

I've done exactly the same as you described above with the same results...why?...because,

You, nor I didn't give the machine enough time between the fwd. and aft cycles to react to the input. Mine were intentional quick inputs. I would not do otherwise...more than one cycle anyway.

Try this next time...like you said, jam the stick forward and wait till the machine reacts with a full nose down motion and then initiate the full back with the stick, wait till the nose goes up thru the horison... then repeat. Let us know what the machine AND your reactions were.

Cheers :) Harry, trust me he did let it react, it bobed nose down and up several times and then stablized.

I am feeling with the Horz. I plan to install and the CLT of my machine. I should have a great flying gyro.

I have been thinking if I can not get a Falcon Body for mine I would look for a Sport copter Body like on the single seat Sportcopters.

CLS447

01-27-2008, 01:36 AM

Tim, how goes it? How about some more pics?

GyroRon

01-27-2008, 04:36 AM

Harry, trust me he did let it react, it bobed nose down and up several times and then stablized.

I am feeling with the Horz. I plan to install and the CLT of my machine. I should have a great flying gyro.

I have been thinking if I can not get a Falcon Body for mine I would look for a Sport copter Body like on the single seat Sportcopters.

Yeap, I bet there is no way he did what I did to demostrate the stability of my gyro. Harry, have you ever been in a Dominator? I just wish everyone had a good long demo ride in one to be able to identify and appreciate that there is a difference between a stable and a unstable gyro.

Passin' Thru

01-27-2008, 09:43 AM

Yeap, I bet there is no way he did what I did to demostrate the stability of my gyro. Harry, have you ever been in a Dominator? I just wish everyone had a good long demo ride in one to be able to identify and appreciate that there is a difference between a stable and a unstable gyro.

Ron, if I had been with you when you done that, I would have shot you right then and there! :sad: ;)

Way back when I was first starting to build my sorta Donimator, Ernie sent me a video of him doing the same stunt low level down the runway at wide open throttle. It scared me so bad I nearly threw up just watching the video.
I heard that Bensen was present and it upset him so much he left the fly in.

I had flown for so many years with that "nightmare" always present in the back of my mind the fear and instinct to avoid it is permanantly burned in!

Just joking about shooting you, but you would probably have heard the most blood curdling scream in your like!:eek: :lol: :lol:

Harry_S.

01-27-2008, 12:41 PM

Yeap, I bet there is no way he did what I did to demostrate the stability of my gyro. Harry, have you ever been in a Dominator? I just wish everyone had a good long demo ride in one to be able to identify and appreciate that there is a difference between a stable and a unstable gyro.

Yeah, I did do it just as you said you did it. Any gyro will react in the same manner. Nothin' to it. You make fore and aft inputs in rapid succession. Try and not put the aft input untill the nose has ducked and then, say 2 seconds, input the aft stick. Continuous inputs with no pause will just make for a steady and shallow roller coaster ride.

I just viewed a DVD I received from Tim C. and it showed the Dom doing the roller coaster ride AND an RAF doing the same bit. Didn't pay attention as to who they were?! How do explain that??

Ron, I've never flown a stable gyro, so I've been told. If what you say is true...a stable gyro would be DULL flying. :D

Cheers :)

animal

01-27-2008, 12:44 PM

Harry plz. take your arguement with Ron somewhere else. so I can get back to posting progress on my Falcon.

thanks

animal

01-28-2008, 02:48 PM

well I Pulled the Gyro out in the yard and a few pics.

animal

01-28-2008, 03:04 PM

well as some know,I had been trying to sell My old Sportster and van for awhile. about a week ago I got my van sold so this gave me the funds for my Engine. But I was not haveing much luck selling the Sportster.

anyway I have been wanting to get back into mowing some lawns and well my old mower is an old 30" cut murray that was worn slap out, so I needed a mower to do my own yard.

With this is mind I saw craigslist had an area from lawn and farm equeptment.
so I figure what the heck I will list the bike for trade for a ZTR mower or $3,500 cash. well I figured if I got lucky maybe someone would have a good Cub cadet and some cash for the bike at best.

Saturday morning prayers got answered, better then i could have hoped for. A guy traded me a 2003 John deere 737 Z-trak professional grade mower, 54" cut, 23 h.p. has 900 hours run time and in great shape. he traded me even.

I think I did good.

Then On sunday Dan McCallister Delivered the EA-82, started it on the test stand,run it up to 4,500 r.p.m. and then we took it off the stand and made the deal.

so thats all my spending on the gyro until some cash comes in. but at least now barring no more droughts this year, just maybe I can pick up enough lawns to buy some parts.

Anyway now I have more parts to work with and a source of future income.
things are looking up for this year.

jjp77tex

01-28-2008, 05:03 PM

great news..
:drum: :drum: :drum: :drum: :drum: :drum: :drum: :drum: :drum: :drum:

animal

01-28-2008, 05:19 PM

I don't know if I will be able to get a body anytime soon now. but with any luck spring will bring me enough lawns to mow to get the money for main rotors and other stuff. I am still debateing if I want to get a taller mast or make taller head plates. I do have some extra tubeing I might could just splice some tubeing together with plate on the sides.

Also need input, the prop I have is 72" if I don't cut it down, it would put my trust line 6" - 8" about clt, would this be a problem? if so I thought about riseing the seat and pedals up and maybe mount a fuel tank above the engine. just some thought. keep in mind I still plan to install the Don parham horz. stab behind the tall tail about 24" up.

or would I be better to just cut the prop down to 64" or 68"

from what I am seeing 64" would put me at 4" above CLT.

what do you all think?

engine is a EA-82 with stratus cams ,Amax redrive and 72" warp drive prop.

billygyro

01-28-2008, 05:48 PM

animal

01-28-2008, 06:00 PM

Animal,,,, Looks Like You Got It Going On Brother,,,
I Am Old Biker Myself, But I Think You Did The Better End Of The Deal On The Mower As Well.... Hope To See The Pics Soon With The Ea-82 Hanging On The Airframe....
Don't worry Billy,I am still in the wind, I parked my sporty when I put the Beast on the road. 81 sturgis with attitude. 1340 bored 20 over, 13" apes, jockey shift with open primary drive, 5 gallon fat bob tanks. I built her up from a basket case includeing doing the paint my self.

now there is an Idea, besides the weight,could mount some 5 gal fat bobs on a gyro over the engine, they are stream lined.

wayne331

01-28-2008, 06:10 PM

animal looks real nice all most like the one my gyro nice!!!!! wayne.

animal

01-28-2008, 06:18 PM

Thanks Wayne, can you send me a close up of how your cooling line runs to the thermostat houseing, this one has a "T" fitting with a 3/4" line going to the therm houseing. I will probably still make a cross over intake,as I don't like the tiny updraft carbs and linkages that are on it now. I will get pics of the intake and carb set up and post soon.

wayne331

01-28-2008, 06:24 PM

i'll send pics of it to you.you will like it.

CLS447

01-29-2008, 03:00 AM

Tim, now you're getting there man!

Is that the engine off of Dan's machine that he had at Mentone? Tell him we said HI !

I spoke with Neal yesterday, I think I will be buying his stepped keel kit soon. He said my engine(EA81) would be great with a 66" warp.

The kit does not include the tail or the steering link setup but I might get that stuff from him also. He also made some other great suggestions.

Thanks & keep up the good work & the pictures !

animal

01-29-2008, 05:54 AM

Cool deal Chris, I did not know what came with the drop keel kit. I think you will be very happy with the conversion.

If the machine was a 2 seat open frame design, then yes this is the same Engine, he just picked up a EJ-22 with Ross Redrive that he is going to put on his tandem machine.

he took the heads off this engine and replaced the rings that had gotten stuck, cleaned the carbs and now she is running up to 4,500 r.p.m. with no problems, but I don't trust the dual carbs that are on it now and plan to make a cross over intake and single carb. I will probably get a new blade for my band saw today and start cutting out my engine mount brackets and supports soon.

It's coming along, but buying more parts will be on hold till spring and I can start makeing some money with that mower I just traded for. I have to admit I have gotten more parts and stuff done then I thought I would have by now.

Brent_Brown

01-29-2008, 06:29 PM

Tim I would look it flipping the belt drive this would help with the CLT thing.

animal

01-29-2008, 06:31 PM

Tim I would look it flipping the belt drive this would help with the CLT thing. only one problem this redrive and a shaft that goes over the top of the engine to the frong and is used for belt tension and tracking.

davreich

01-29-2008, 08:05 PM

Hi,
Great project and good luck!

animal

01-29-2008, 08:16 PM

Dave with any luck I will make some mow money..lol
wait till you see a few tricks I have in store for this gyro. stay tuned. it going to get intresting.

dimwit

01-31-2008, 03:57 PM

Tim. I'm glad to hear that things are going good for you. Your gyro is really coming along and looking great. keep up the good work.

animal

02-01-2008, 02:08 PM

Look what UPS dropped off today. I had paid for it before Christmas,but did not have the funds to get it shipped at that time. finely got it shipped.

Looks like I need to go ahead and get a new band saw blade so I can get this puppy mounted.

this should be a good stable gyro with this Horz. Stab. on the back.

animal

02-01-2008, 02:10 PM

Tim. I'm glad to hear that things are going good for you. Your gyro is really coming along and looking great. keep up the good work.
Thanks larry, it's getting there surely but slowly.

I am looking forward to seeing gyro evolve also.

Paul_Zurawski

02-01-2008, 05:45 PM

Tim...you are rocking with your build:-) I am def gonna do a motorcycle trip this spring down to your place to check out your machine.

animal

02-01-2008, 05:53 PM

HI Paul and Stan. yeah it is coming togther, will be slowing down some till I get some money comeing in, but so far I have 3 yards lined up to mow this summer,so every little bit helps, you can see my new money maker in the back ground.

I am going to start working on mounting the engine and Horz. stab. next week some time.

Stan you had one of these on your RAF, can you imagine how stable that thing is going to make the Falcon moved back behind the Tall Tail?
I sure don't think I will have to worry about power push overs.

Paul, looking forward to your Visit,always cool to talk to ya on the phone when ya call.

animal

02-01-2008, 06:12 PM

Thanks for the reply Stan,I was not sure how to mount it and at what angle.
I have even played with the Idea of an Inflight adjustable trim.

I can't wait to see how this is going to look mounted.I may just mount it before I mount the engine.

billygyro

02-01-2008, 06:22 PM

Where Did You Get The Stab? How Much Was It ?

I Like That....

animal

02-01-2008, 07:35 PM

Where Did You Get The Stab? How Much Was It ?

I Like That.... it is a Parham Stab. designed by Don Parham ( RFI) and was used on his RF-150 and RF-170 gyros. Pat Mcnair in fla, was the first one to install one on his RAF-2000. Pat has one of the most powerfull Raf-2000's around and he has been flying it for years. should make my Gyro that is already pretty close to CLT rock steady.

Stay tuned to see how I will have it mounted. trust me it will set this gyro apart from others Falcons for sure.

animal

02-17-2008, 07:54 PM

Friendly

02-17-2008, 08:24 PM

OK I mounted the engine tonight.

the prop is a 70" 3 blade warp drive. I mounted it with out cutting it down to see if I can use it as is or if I will need to cut it down.

As it is mounted now I am 6" above CLT. but as we can see even if I make taller check plates to rise the rotorhead and the top rudder Support the prop will still be to tall.

Now if I cut the Prop down to 68" I can drop my engine mount down some more which will put me closer to CLT. and give me more clearance at the top.

Anyway what do ya'll think? will 68" give me enough thrust?Tim, check your prop rpm and check it against other props of the same diameter and rpm to see where you are thrust wise. I would be more concerned with the engine being so much lower than the prop thrust line. You could probably pick up a used prop for 1/2 the price of a new one and not worry about the balancing etc or send them to manuf. for resizing.

Also how is the best way to cut a warp drive prop?

below are some pics.

note the Horz, Stab.I have it sitting on a stool about the same height and loctation I plan to mount it.

keep the pictures coming, I am anxious to see how you mount the engine.

GyroRon

02-18-2008, 05:58 AM

A hacksaw will cut the warp drive very nicely!

animal

02-18-2008, 06:04 AM

A hacksaw will cut the warp drive very nicely!
yeah I was figuring hack saw or jig saw I could cut them still mounted.
Worse case I take the off and cut in the band saw.

I plan to do that this morning will post updated pics tonight.

I am going to cut down to 68" and see where that puts me. I can easyily rise my seat a few inches to get closer to CLT.

To bad the Full 70" prop wouldn't work.

GyroDoug

02-18-2008, 06:42 AM

Tim,

Why not consider raising the motor mount a couple inches rather than raising your seat. That would raise the center of gravity and allow you to use the full size of the prop and maximize your thrust? I am sure that will be some work to do but when you get done the results would all be positive rather than a compromise. It's a shame not to be able to take advantage of all the thrust your engine is capable of producing. Just a thought.

Gyro Doug

animal

02-18-2008, 02:26 PM

Ok after much thought I decided to see how low I could get my trust line and still have a good prop size.

I ended up with 67" on the Prop and my trust line is about 3" lower.
I lowered it down to 3/4" clearance off the keel.

also I took the Rotorhead off to see how high I need to rise the tail support to clear the Prop.

new Cheek plates are already planed for ,for better rotor blade clearance of the tail.

Also note pic of the Horz. stab. I plan to mount it on a stinger behind the tall tail that will rise it up the same height it is sitting now.

Idea is to get the Horz. back more and up in more clean air,with the winglet in clean air if I do get a body for this Gyro. I had thought of haveing the Horz. up to the center of the prop blast.

But I can see if I mount it higher I risk the blades chopping off the winglets in a flare with full back stick.
I think the height it is at now would be perfect.

below are pics of my engine mounts, support V tubes ,engine trust line side views and Horz.stab. location.

scottessex

02-18-2008, 02:31 PM

Making good progress, looks good.

dimwit

02-20-2008, 05:18 PM

Way to go Tim. It's coming looking real good. Very impressive.

Friendly

02-20-2008, 06:27 PM

You may be ready for Bensen Days !!!

animal

02-20-2008, 06:29 PM

You may be ready for Bensen Days !!!

I dought that, no money for blades right now. but hope to get some lawn work soon and hope to be ready to fly by mid summer.

animal

03-09-2008, 02:41 PM

Well I got out today and started work on my stinger that I will mount the Horz. stab. to, it is made of single 2"x 2" tube about 18" long with a section of 2"x2" box tube on top that the Horz. will mount to.

here are a few pics. the horz. is just sitting in place now and I still have to make plates to hold the top tube to the stinger.

the idea here is to get the Horz. Stab back and as high up as I can to get the most effect from the prop and will also keep the horz. out of kicked up gravel.

GyroRon

03-09-2008, 05:21 PM

I see one possible problem with how your mounting the stab.

It places the weight of the stab and all the tubes and cheek plates that secure it, VERY far behind the mast. It may - combined with the heavy Subaru engine - make for a very tail heavy gyro. You don't weight much either Tim, so that makes matter worse. Your rotorhead will end up WAY back behind the mast to get the hang test to work out. Just food for thought. It is a neat idea mounting it there though

animal

03-09-2008, 05:29 PM

I see one possible problem with how your mounting the stab.

Your rotorhead will end up WAY back behind the mast to get the hang test to work out. Just food for thought. It is a neat idea mounting it there though
yeah Ron I know this. most Falcons with heavy engines have the rotorhead cheek plates turned backwards and an extended mast.

I have discussed this in detail with Neal carnes. I am mostly concerned with flexing of the stinger.
will know more once I get it mounted.

will be intresting to see how it works out.

oh BTW not my Idea ,it was done many years ago by Art Evans (sp) on an agressior gyro with an even bigger Horz. stab. they said it flew as stable a cessna 210 also a one off gyro called the competitior 500 had it done this way.

Also you may note the seat on the Falcon is mounted several inches forward of the mast.
the Falcon you flew Ron that Bill owned looked like it had an extended Keel .if you look at a pic of it compared to the length of mine.

animal

03-09-2008, 07:39 PM

here is the side view of mine.

Gyro_Kai

03-10-2008, 12:31 AM

That top bracket for the rudder seems awfully high, are you sure it is cleared also in turbolent conditions on the ground?

Kai.

Timchick

03-10-2008, 04:37 AM

Yeah, What Kai said. Animal, look at the second photo you posted of that single seat Falcon. Your tail is not that same tail. Your tail is a lot taller. It looks like your rudder is for a 2 place machine with a taller mast. I say take your rudder off and cut off about a foot from the bottom of it.

animal

03-10-2008, 05:14 AM

what you not seeing is the Gyro in the Photo has an extended mast. I still have to extend mine. I have talked to Neal carnes the designer and he has assured me that is the correct rudder also if you will note that is my cheek plates turn backwards just so I can get measurments that is in no way the way the support will be mounted.

I posted the Side View so Ron could see the one he flew had an extended Keel, after he thought with my Horz. stab mounted on the stinger would make it tail heavy. My keel is stock length so I really don't see the Stinger and Horz. makeing it much more tail heavier then it is now with the big Engine on it, I already know I have to extend the mast and relocate the head plates to get it to hang right.
so I am not concerned at this point how the tall tail mount look, That at the moment is not the issue.

The issue is the self designed stinger mount the Horz. stab will be mounted to. as in will I have a problem of the Horz. stab flexing or twisting in flight.

animal

03-10-2008, 05:30 AM

It looks like your rudder is for a 2 place machine with a taller mast. I say take your rudder off and cut off about a foot from the bottom of it. If I cut a foot off my tall tail I would have no prop clearance. as it is in the pic I only have a inch clearance now. I am running 67" of 3 blade prop now. started out as a 70" prop and had to cut some down.

So cutting my Rudder down is out. once I extend the mast I will be fine.

Like I pointed out I just have it bolted up in the head plates now to just get my height to clear measurements. extending my mast will also put the head plates back over the engine more.

I have had several calls and E-mail exchages with Neal carnes, the designer of the falcon dureing the whole build. I plan to send him pics of my Stinger mount later today and see what he thinks so far.

animal

03-10-2008, 03:52 PM

Ok I was told by Neal awhile back that the lower pivot bolt needs to be mounted in a sphereical bearing. not sure I under stand fully why.
But at any point this is what I came up with.

I took the block I had machines and milled a slot in it and installed a spherical Rod end bearing,then used spacers on top and bottom ,the bolt goes all the way into the keel in a hole that was already bored when I got the kit. Note : you can't see in the pic ,but I bored a hole the size of the end mill all the way thru the block.

It can pivot several degrees directions.

It might not look the slickest,but I think it's going to work. I will send a pic to Neal tonight and see what he thinks.

dimwit

03-10-2008, 05:48 PM

It's been awhile Tim I'm sure glad to see you make more progress. Is'nt this stuff fun.
Looks good.

animal

03-10-2008, 06:34 PM

Thanks Guys, I sent Neal and E-mail tonight to see what he thinks on my Idea to extend my mast.

I know we have seen how Ron A. has spliced his mast,and we have seen a few other done the same way.

I was thinking of taking a section of either 2" x 2" x 1/4" box tube or 2 1" x 2" x 1/8" tube and make it so I can bolt it to either the front or back of the mast with side plates and bolts going from front to back.

here are some pics of what I am thinking of.

part of this Idea is so I can use my same head plates, now that being said we already know my head will need to be back more to hang right. as Neal said riseing the mast will put the hang point back some on it's own. now depending if I have the plates face forward or back or if the box tub extension is on the front or rear of the mast this will give me a wide range of hang area ,with any luck I can find the right point and still use the factory kit plates.

I will be going up about 10" on the mast from a rough measurement with the rotorhead installed my teeter bolt will now be 7'10" off the ground.
that should give me plenty of blade clearance from the tail and the ground with long blades if I do get a body for mine. also may get me closer to CLT. I have my seat rised 2" above stock now.

note the pic of the ruler is 9" above the stock mast, then picture where the head plates will mount and the the Rotor head about that. I think this should give me plenty of height.

animal

03-11-2008, 12:05 PM

Well I did not really like the way the top of my Rudder was mounted,basicly had the end of the tube milled down flat with a hole in it.

since I read of braces failing I am thinking there must be alot of flexing going on back there. so I decided, Well I have another Rod End the same size as the lower one. lets see what kind of mount I can make that can be installed inside the box tube.

here are pics of what I came up with. I have not installed the 2- 1/4" AN bolts, yet but you can see in the pics where they will be.

my machineing is not that great and I didn't even have plans. I just clamped down a block in the mill and went at it.

I think it came out pretty good. what do ya'll think?

scottessex

03-11-2008, 02:03 PM

Very nice, looks good,

RotoPlane

03-11-2008, 05:28 PM

Great idea Tim and it looks impressive...

dimwit

03-11-2008, 07:13 PM

It Looks like it is plenty strong. Outstanding workmanship.

animal

03-11-2008, 08:54 PM

Thanks guys,just an Idea I had while laying in bed before I went to sleep. I just did not like the Idea that the way the brace was milled when I got it,that just the flat lower part of the tube with no bearing would absorb all that flexing I have read about.

this way it can rotate and twist and not bind or break. in the pic below you can see how it was when I got it. I am not sure if the guy I bought the kit from milled it that way or if it came that way from Rotorhawk. But I feel better about it my way.

I was suprised just how much more freely it can rotate now. should be smooth on the pedals in flight. was well worth the afternoons work to make.

I am really enjoying this build. some parts are a Challange since I don't have a manual.but then I just resort to looking at pics on the forum here how other have done things. there is so much info on here if a person takes time to go back and read a few years. if I newbie can not find the info, then they are not takeing time to look.
I am very glad to have all this info at the touch of a button.

Rigidwing

03-19-2008, 05:39 PM

Hey Tim,

I just wanted to say that I have really enjoyed following your build. It's looking Awesome bud! Your original configuration is exactly what I had in mind for my first Gyro project. An enclosed direct drive EJ22 RH1 Falcon. I now know some of the problems to overcome thanks to you. The Falcon is a great choice I think for budget limited pilots like myself. I'm not sure what to do now that the enclosure is not available, BUMMER! I'm kinda set on having that myself. I would sure like to find an old Aggressor Pod Like Garys' with the engine ferring, it looks awesome. His machine is looking damn sharp and I hope to be there for first liftoff. I definitely consider an engine like you have chosen but can't really afford the redrive. Will just have to keep my eyes open for deals I guess. Keep up the great work my friend and I'm sure you will be headed for the open sky in no time!

Yeah definitely an "81" supporter. No HA around these parts except for the affiliated sponsored clubs like "Kerberos" which are my brothers. These guys are outrageous and a lot of fun to hang out with. I'm just an occasional guest
at their clubhouse although constantly solicited to join. But I can't ride for sh*t and to small to fight.

But I sure love to FLY!

Jason

__________________________________________________ _____________
__________________________________________________ _____________
PRA Chapter 2 UTAH

animal

03-19-2008, 06:08 PM

Jason look under the For sale area, there is an Agreesor project cheap with the Body like Garys. I wish I could have gotten it my self. I am kind of Bummed about the Bodys my self.

btw what was the tip off that I am an "81" supporter.....lol

could it be half my wardrobe are club support shirts.

we have 3 chapters of "81" here in N.C. and I ride with an affiliate club from time to time. Not patched. but well in enough that I have been video taped to many times by the feds and I am sure my phone is tapped..lol

hows that song go, friends in low places..:)

Rigidwing

03-20-2008, 06:19 PM

Tim

Yeah I saw that aggressor project. Exactly what I am looking for and such a great deal. Thought it was to good to be true since the first post is dated 02-28-2005. Even if legit I'm still several months from getting the money together to start a build. That deal won't last long. So I'll just keep researching for now. GyroRons' machine for sale not bad looking either but needs a redrive.

Oh I could tell right away from looking at your picture that you were an "81" supporter!

But seriously we exchanged messages many months ago and you told me LOL. I haven't been around for quite some time. Life continues to have
different plans for me other than what Id like to do. It's hard not to get discouraged sometimes. But I never have lost interest. It will happen eventually, I'm sure of that.

Our chapter Prez will be bummed that I started posting again and haven't taken the time to stop by and say hello yet ha ha. Better go do that!

TTYL

Jason

animal

03-20-2008, 07:05 PM

Tim

Oh I could tell right away from looking at your picture that you were an "81" supporter!

But seriously we exchanged messages many months ago and you told me LOL. I haven't been around for quite some time. Life continues to have
different plans for me other than what Id like to do. It's hard not to get discouraged sometimes. But I never have lost interest. It will happen eventually, I'm sure of that.

Our chapter Prez will be bummed that I started posting again and haven't taken the time to stop by and say hello yet ha ha. Better go do that!

TTYL

Jason I was not sure if we had talked before or if you had just spotted the "81" on the front of the shirt in one of the pic's I am going to a Rebel Rousers benifit next week, should be fun.

I know what you mean about life and it's plans for ya. I am still trying to recover from where life threw me a few curve balls. loseing that $17,000 + a few years ago hurt me badly. but I am very slowly getting my life back.

I am just takeing my build one day at a time and not getting in a hurry,I want to fly, but at this point I am just enjoying the build and watching this gyro Evolve the way I invisioned.

I did work on the Gyro some more today, I rised the seat up about 4" to try and bring the thrust line more to true CLT. I think I will be very close, if not with that big horz. stab. mounted way back, it should still be very stable.
will post some pics tomorrow after I get the seat mounts done.

CLS447

03-21-2008, 02:30 AM

Tim, did that Hstab have a spherical bearing molded right into it ?

I saw your mount on the other thread. I was wondering why you didn't just put it under the rudder ?

GyroDoug

03-21-2008, 06:56 AM

I haven't been around for quite some time. Life continues to have different plans for me other than what Id like to do. It's hard not to get discouraged sometimes. But I never have lost interest. It will happen eventually, I'm sure of that.

Our chapter Prez will be bummed that I started posting again and haven't taken the time to stop by and say hello yet ha ha. Better go do that!

TTYL

Jason

Jason,

You got that right!!! We have missed seeing you at our monthly meeting. I have sent you many e-mails but you never responded and I wasn't sure if my e-mails are getting though that spam filter you use. Anyway, I am glad to hear that you haven't lost interest. Call me or e-mail me so we can make sure you know about what's coming up next. Best of luck with your dreams of flying.

Gyro Doug

animal

03-21-2008, 06:01 PM

Tim, did that Hstab have a spherical bearing molded right into it ?

I saw your mount on the other thread. I was wondering why you didn't just put it under the rudder ?
Chris,becouse I gave Ron Awad the stock Horz. stab that came with the kit for his Gyro,I have a Don Parham Stab mounted out back on a stinger where it is back more and has the vertical fins,so if I get a body for mine it will be more stable.
I got my Horz. Stab partly mounted today,and it is looking good.

CLS447

03-22-2008, 03:57 AM

Tim, My Air Command stab(copy of Don's) has a bearing molded into it.

The rudder then fastens through it.

Did your stab have this ?

rfi

03-22-2008, 11:59 AM

Chris,
Tim must have a horizontal stab that was built for an RAF 2000. All of the stabs that I built for the RF-150 and RF-170 gyros, plus a few Falcons, etc. had a 3/8 inch I.D. sperical bearing--the ones built for the RAF 2000 had none.

SgurlEd

03-28-2008, 11:54 AM

Animal...
How's the build coming along? Haven't heard from you in a while!
You must be really busy.
Get er' done!
Sgurl*Ed

animal

03-28-2008, 08:30 PM

been working on my bike and mowing lawns to make gyro money.
still waiting to hear back from Neal carnes,he was going to send me some extended cheek plates. so was waiting to get those. If I don't hear from him soon I will go another route.

Update : Neal Called while I was out getting gas to mow lawns with. he is sending out those Cheek plates today.

He had been out of Town.

Friendly

03-30-2008, 10:01 PM

Tim,
What stage are you in? I have not seen a full shot photo in a while. Did you get your cheek plates?

animal

03-31-2008, 02:11 PM

Tim,
What stage are you in? I have not seen a full shot photo in a while. Did you get your cheek plates?
still have not heard back from Neal yet, Gyro pushed to back of shop so I could get my trailer with the mower loaded on it out of the weather. still working on a few parts. I have also rised my seat up about 4" to get closer to CLT. this pics was taken before I moved stuff around.

I used some old bensen keel plates and reshaped them, will take and clean the old paint off and repaint once I have it all fitted.

Friendly

03-31-2008, 03:08 PM

The plates on my Phoenix (Aggressor/Falcon) are almost straight up. It has a pod and an extended tail boom with the EJ22. It was set up for 27 to 29 foot rotors and it has about the same mast height as you are using.

The tail from Erine is expensive, but if you put it on a Bensen/Brock/ KB3 dropped keel, Falcon , it becomes a Gyro of a different tale!
Here"s some motivation just for you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N6KKDGnfaY

animal

03-31-2008, 03:24 PM

Mark, Cool Video. your gyro looks sweet. I am hopeing to make enough mowing lawns to get some blades the summer. Now if the economy don't tank.

just maybe I can finish this thing.

animal

04-07-2008, 02:56 PM

Here are some pics taken this week that I finley got downloaded from the camera. I think I have my thrustline pretty close to CLT.

If not with the Parham stab mounted out back on that stinger is should be plenty stable anyway.

I rised the seat up 2" and I have the Engine mounted as low as I could get it.

Now I still have to rise my Rotorhead up, Neal Carnes said he was going to send me some extended cheek plates so waiting for those to get here now.

animal

04-07-2008, 03:08 PM

Ok when I got the project the Cyclic stick was partly assembled.

what I have noted is with full back stick the back pitch pivot hits the rear mounting block.

note the front mount is made longer,I am thinking about reversing these lower pivots so that the rear link will have more clearance. what do ya'll think?

I am not sure how much back tilt it should have,but I would think at full back stick it should still be able to pivot and not hit the mounts.

also I am thinking of milling a recess in the mount block so the brass bushing will be mounted flush.

Jazzenjohn

04-07-2008, 03:41 PM

Your showing some really good progress on the Falcon Animal !

CLS447

04-07-2008, 04:41 PM

Tim, it is possible that the rotorhead will hit it's backstop first. I guess that would be fine as long as you can also get to the front stop, also .

animal

04-07-2008, 05:51 PM

Tim, it is possible that the rotorhead will hit it's backstop first. I guess that would be fine as long as you can also get to the front stop, also .
HI Chris I just came in from the shop I went ahead and disassembled the stick and finished drilling the front bolt holes, and remounted it with the long bar faceing the rear now.

I also milled out the mount blocks so the bushings would be counter sunk.

feels alot better now that it is complete and tightened down. lot of clearance of the rear mount now.

Timchick

04-07-2008, 08:02 PM

Tim, you missed a great looking Sparrow/Falcon at Bensen Days. It had an HKS engine on it. Check out the paint job. All the lines and rivets on the rudder and stab are painted on.

animal

04-07-2008, 08:10 PM

Tim, you missed a great looking Sparrow/Falcon at Bensen Days. It had an HKS engine on it. Check out the paint job. All the lines and rivets on the rudder and stab are painted on.

Tim thanks for posting that side view, that let me see just what I was concerned about, I can see in the pic that I do now have the Cyclic stick mounted the right way now.

seems the guy I had gotten the kit from had started on the stick and it was backwards.

how did the gyro fly?
any in flight shows of it.

again thanks, that pic takes alot off my mind, I had tryed to call neal carnes today but never got anyone just the answering machine.

Tom Milton had posted a pic of the Gyro in another thread, that is a sweet paint job.

Timchick

04-07-2008, 09:16 PM

It didn't fly at Bensen Days. Tom Milton did an air worthyness inspection on it at Bensen Days. It won't be long before it's in the air.

PR Gyro Pilot

04-08-2008, 06:01 AM

what engine is that? what HP

animal

04-08-2008, 06:10 AM

what engine is that? what HP

The Engine is a Subaru EA-82,right now has Dual carbs but I plan to change them out. it has the Stratus cam grind and is 115 H.P. Belt Redrive, not sure if it is an early Amax or an Early RAF redrive,but the support shaft gose from the front of the engine to the back. and is swinging a 68" 3 blade Warp drive Prop.

This engine is also Electric start.
here are some pics.

richardkennedy

04-08-2008, 07:55 PM

Animal, I remember from BJ's log books that the redrive was an Amax.

Passin' Thru

04-09-2008, 12:51 AM

what engine is that? what HP
The engine on the gyro Tim posted is an HKS 700, 60 hp. Read about it here:

http://www.hks-power.co.jp/hks%5Faviation/

animal

04-09-2008, 03:50 AM

Animal, I remember from BJ's log books that the redrive was an Amax.
Ok, Thanks Richard,thats what I was thinking but was not sure.

have you done anything to your Falcon lately?

richardkennedy

04-09-2008, 06:56 PM

Not a lot, still trying to work out the planetary redrive problem. Hopefully it will be ready in a few weeks. When I bought it my wife said I wouldn't have it going in a year. I told her no way, 90 days tops. It was a year ago last January that I bought it. Seems like wives just know these kinds of things......

animal

04-10-2008, 03:43 PM

Got the Cheek plates today,been Busy mowing so have not had time to look at them yet. anyway will post more pics soon.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well took a look at the extended cheek plates that are about 30" long and 3" wide and go stright up. strange shape and not a single bolt hole lines up..lol

Neal did tell me they where designed for a 2 seat gyro he was working on an that I may or may not be able to make them work.

Long story short he didn't even charge me for them and I think with some work I can make them work, they are very thick but full of holes.I think I can mill them down and make something work. they where made to fit a 3" wide mast. anyway I will mess around with it this weekend some.

animal

04-12-2008, 07:02 PM

Well the extended cheek plate where not what I was expecting, but was workable. neal had designed these for a 2 seat model with a 3" mast tube.
they where alot longer then need. so I figured out what I needed and cut the rest off. see pics below.

first pic is plates in the saw.

then in milling machine cutting angles to make look better. I decided to just leave them wide for more strength. the extra holes I will used to mount brackets to for stuff I add later,or just leave them like it was. I had thought of milling them down to the width of the mast then decided heck it don't hurt like they are. so just tapered the bottoms.

mounted: I should be high enough now. from floor to top of mast is 8" 2" to tetter bolt.

now I can finish the control rods. scary it is getting closer to flying every day. now to find some blades I can afford...lol need to get out and mow more lawns.... grow grass grow...

Friendly

04-13-2008, 06:25 AM

Animal ,
are you going to have a prerotor?

animal

04-13-2008, 07:07 AM

Animal ,
are you going to have a prerotor?
yes I plan to build one of my own design, shaft diven,got some Ideas,but that is still down the list some. right now working with the parts I have.

I will probably work on my control rods today. the mill the slot thru the top til support for the trim cable to run thru. Neal said to mill a 1" wide slot about 6" long in the tail support and run a cable thru it down to the spring.
if I can still find it I use to have an adjustable trim wheel from a home built airplane project I had along time ago. if I still have it I may try and make an adjustable trim set up..

dimwit

04-13-2008, 11:20 AM

Totally outstanding work Tim, You are really moving along. Looks good.

billygyro

04-13-2008, 04:30 PM

Tim,, It's Looking Great !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cant Wait To See It Fly !!

Also Did You Get The Numbers From The Pod You Asked About ?? I Posted Them For You...

Mine Is Comming Along Great As Well. New Pics, Soon.:rolleyes:

animal

04-14-2008, 02:54 PM

Falcon

04-26-2008, 03:08 PM

Animal,

You are coming along alot quicker than I did. The gyro looks great! I am still waiting to finish up with my license, right now money is short at my house, so I am on hold for now.

Gary

animal

06-14-2008, 06:23 PM

Well it has been awhile since I got motivated to work on the Falcon.

today I got out in the shop and milled the slot for the trim cable and mounted the top rudder support. I also cut and fitted a filler tube to go between the extended mast head plates. height from floor to teeter bolt is 8 feet. should give me plenty of clearance. Neal carnes suggested 27 foot blades.

below are some pics and front on shot of the Falcon.

Friendly

06-15-2008, 05:21 PM

Tim
How far is it from your teeter bolt to the floor. I am making some comparision figures for another project I am working on.

animal

06-15-2008, 07:33 PM

Tim
How far is it from your teeter bolt to the floor. I am making some comparision figures for another project I am working on.
I measured it last night, from the floor to the teeter bolt is 8 foot even.

animal

06-27-2008, 06:47 AM

well look what was dropped off at my shop at 5:00 a.m.!

A biker Buddy of mine, that is a truck driver, It turns out goes thru Fort Wayne In. all the time and was able to pick up the Body for me.

I had to do a bit more work to it then planned ,in the pics I had you could tell the back was installed at a differant angle, but you could not tell they had glassed it in on the back side. this took a bit more cutting but by 10:00 a.m. with a lot of work useing a hacksaw blade in a handle I was able to cut the back panel free.I then used a sander wheel in my drill to smooth it down.
I still have to work on the outer edges of the back panel, but that should be fairly easy, then it is just a matter of setting it at the right angle and position and refiberglass it back in. Oh well just more to help make the 51% build rule..lol I think I passed that point along time ago.

anyway even thu I got the Body home I am still going to try and make Mentone.

the best part is I didn't have to wait until Aug. to get the Body home. that was like a stopping point as I didn't want to have to do all the wireing just to have to do it all over when I install the body.

I am getting closer to my dream of an enclosed gyro.

Friendly

06-27-2008, 07:40 AM

I know you are a happy camper. How did your friend mount that to his bike to bring to you:D

dragonflyerthom

06-27-2008, 07:58 AM

Almost there Tim.

Nice build. Are you going to use the back of the Pod for your backrest?

animal

06-27-2008, 08:18 AM

I know you are a happy camper. How did your friend mount that to his bike to bring to you:D

Don't give him ideas..lol

yeah now once I get the back panel refiberglassed back in place I can mount it and then start with the fun stuff.

animal

06-27-2008, 08:20 AM

Almost there Tim.

Nice build. Are you going to use the back of the Pod for your backrest?
I have the back panel set back about where it should be, now to glass it back in. I hope to have the back panel glassed back in by this afternoon so it can be drying. to get it to form fit I will do one side at a time. it should be very nice when done.

Racer

06-27-2008, 08:53 AM

I am Lovin this thread, You are doing a great job Tim, Keep on keepin on.

animal

06-27-2008, 09:13 AM

Thanks Todd, it is slowly starting to take shape like I want it. it is up to about 95 here now so I will probably stop working on it now ,until the evening when the shop cools off.

I was concerned about how much trouble I would have cutting that back panel out , this cab was built for a guy to use on a helicopter,but the guy never paid for it, the back panel was installed in a more vertical position.

I knew I was going to have to cut it out, but I did not know untill I got the cab that they had put a layer of clothe and glass on the back side.

I had planned to use a sawzall, but when I saw how close it was I decided to try a hack saw blade in a handle, it worked great.

I even used it to trim up the side edges. I think I have figured out the angle it needs to be at,so when it cools down I will see if I can glass it back in.

One thing I can Say, this cab is made better then the cab that was on my scorpion helicopter. and i think with some work I can even mount some removeable doors,should I want to fly when it is cold.

All_In

06-27-2008, 09:49 AM

Tim the body looks bad a$$ even on the ground!!!

animal

06-27-2008, 02:46 PM

Tim the body looks bad a$$ even on the ground!!!
If you think that looks good, then you will love these pics, spent the afternoon fitting and sweating..lol

but it is starting to look good.

dragonflyerthom

06-27-2008, 03:48 PM

Hubba Hubba

Your a frecken artist

All_In

06-27-2008, 04:28 PM

SWEET!!!

That's looks bad to the bone!

What color?

animal

06-27-2008, 04:53 PM

SWEET!!!

That's looks bad to the bone!

What color?
I have not fully decided on the Color I was thinking a base coat of Yellow with maybe blue trim, or maybe do yellow with purple fade like I did on one of my Harleys.

I want something that will stand out in the sky or in the trees should I happen to go in somewhere not planned.

I really like that way my Horz. stab looks mounted back on the Stinger. it is almost the same length from nose to mast as it is mast to back of horz. Stab.

To get the inner back panel back in shape with the side walls, I have been drilling tiny screw hole and useing tiny sheet metal screw to pull it tight. Once I have it all tight and inline I will take the body back off, lay it on it side and glass it in.

Then when the fiberglass drys I will take the screws out and fill and sand the holes. Thankfully it is lineing up better then I was expecting it to.
will have more photos soon.

All_In

06-27-2008, 05:00 PM

I like the yellow and purple fade, heck the blue too and the way it looks too, like a little space ship.

Please post pictures as you go Tim.

You got to be very excited!!!!

GyroRon

06-27-2008, 06:00 PM

So now that you have the cabin are you still planning to go to Mentone? I sold my enclosed trailer and bought a small open trailer, so my MPG should be considerably better!!!! Let me know

animal

06-29-2008, 06:46 PM

So now that you have the cabin are you still planning to go to Mentone? I sold my enclosed trailer and bought a small open trailer, so my MPG should be considerably better!!!! Let me know
HI Ron, if I can save the Money up by then I would sure like to. the grass is drying out so we both know what that means. but yeah I would like to still go if I can get the funds together.

we are getting some much needed rain tonight,so with any luck I should be able to make it still.

I was going to E-mail ya, but got tyed up working on getting the body mounted this weekend, then saw you replyed here.

My goal was get the body mounted so it would not be in the way in the shop. I met that Goal today, it is mounted and even installed the seat back in it this evening.

here are a few pics of it out side in the yard.

Note the Parham stab puts the vertical winglets well out in clean air from the Body. also note the Horz. stab is mounted where it will get the most prop trust.

Still alot of work to do, but it will be well worth all the work.

only one problem, I keep getting these bad thoughts... thoughts of selling my Harley to finish the Falcon.

the Fiberglass did not cure right,I am not sure if the hardener was defective or if I didn't get it mixed right but even tonight it has not gotten hard. maybe I laid it on to thick and it will take longer. if the hardener is not mixed right will it still cure over time?
strangly the pan and brush I mixed it in cured solid.

Timchick

06-29-2008, 07:02 PM

Lookin Good!

dimwit

06-29-2008, 07:24 PM

Tim your gyro is looking way cool. I bet your getting real excited about it now. Good job.

All_In

06-29-2008, 07:47 PM

Tim the front shot really looks like a fighter jet!

And bummer about the resin, not sure but sounds like an uneven mix of hardener with resin as the brush and the last of the mix in the can usually was stirred more causing it to cure and not the rest of the batch, so that’s not a valid sign the rest of the batch was mixed completely.

If so parts of it will never cure because it doesn’t absorb very well.

But I would let it wait 24 hours. If still sticky or worse by then we got a problem.

FliteTyger

06-29-2008, 08:01 PM

Lookin' good Animal!

GyroRon

06-29-2008, 08:09 PM

HI Ron, if I can save the Money up by then I would sure like to. the grass is drying out so we both know what that means. but yeah I would like to still go if I can get the funds together.

we are getting some much needed rain tonight,so with any luck I should be able to make it still.

I was going to E-mail ya, but got tyed up working on getting the body mounted this weekend, then saw you replyed here.

.

You know what, just help out with the expenses as much as you can and plan to come. You really should go to Mentone as much as you like rotorcraft and it won't ever be any cheaper to go to Mentone next year or the year after and so on.

Your gyro is looking good, just remember to try to keep the weight down, Bill Brileys flew okay, not great but not bad, but it was overweight for the engine he had on it. If you can avoid adding too much weight you will end up with a fine gyro

animal

06-30-2008, 04:53 AM

You know what, just help out with the expenses as much as you can and plan to come. You really should go to Mentone as much as you like rotorcraft and it won't ever be any cheaper to go to Mentone next year or the year after and so on.

Your gyro is looking good, just remember to try to keep the weight down, Bill Brileys flew okay, not great but not bad, but it was overweight for the engine he had on it. If you can avoid adding too much weight you will end up with a fine gyro
Thanks Ron, I will keep ya posted on my Funds collection.with gas prices and every thing else going up, this may very well be my only chance to make mentone. I am hopeing to get some good pics there for another Barnstormers story and hopefully get some flight time in. leaveing the video camera at home this time, I like makeing videos but my camera is so old it's not worth messing with. I figure take my digital camera and lots of batterys and I should be good to go.

yeah I am planning on keeping it as light as I can, easyer said then done...lol

now to see if this Fiberglass cures right, if not then I got a mess to fix.

billygyro

06-30-2008, 05:51 AM

Hello Animal
Your Gyro Is Looking Good !!!! And Yea Your Right, Selling The (harley) Bad Idea. You Know How Hard It Would Be To Save Up For Another One. Just Take Your Time And The Next Thing You Know It's In The Air.
I Am Just About Done With Mine, Some Fine Tunning And The Inspection And I Am Ready To Fly. 2 Mounths Ago It Felt Like I Was Never Going To Be Done....:D

All_In

06-30-2008, 07:58 AM

Yes try and never sell your toys! Can't sell your Harley, thought he was kidding?
Also Tim if the resin is sticky or ?? If you post a picture of the type of join I'll ask the pro's the best way to fix it.
I think they just wet sand it down to the seam and split it apart and then apply a very thin hot coat? But have never done it so not sure how it works in real life.

wayne331

07-18-2008, 01:13 PM

hay animal your gyro takeing shape,looking good,wayne.

animal

07-21-2008, 05:06 AM

Ok I have been working on the Falcon more this weekend. I noted when I had full back stick the stick was in my crotch, not fun..lol I always like to have my stick set up so when I fly I can rest my wrist on my leg with my arm relaxed.I learned by rotating the stick in it mount and trimming it down it brought it forward and down so that when I mount a pistol grip handle on it it would be a very comfortable angle full forward stick would have it even with my knee.

so then I started thinking about how do I want to do my throttle,did I want to make a slide lever or a twist grip. being that I have played with helicopter some i am use to a twist grip throttle. I found and old Harley handle bar that has just the right angles and I have decided I am going to install a harley throttle and switch assembly like on my bike, I will cut the end out so the switch housing will be mounted above the grip as shown, if you look close you will see that the start button would be in easy reach for in flight restarts if needed.

also I learned that even though the falcon has a nice panel, if you are in the seat and had shoulder harness on you can not reach it. I got looking and as you can see in the pick just temp. hanging, I learned that the pod that came with the gyro could be mounted upside down and that would gave a panel of easy reach for the electrics and a radio,if I can find one to fit.

what do ya'll think of those Ideas?

also you can see I got my fiberglass areas fixed.

j bird

07-21-2008, 06:49 AM

Hey Animal- did you see that apparition in your 7th pic.

animal

07-21-2008, 06:52 AM

you mean the one of me standing in the door way of the shop takeing the pic...lol

animal

08-25-2008, 08:36 PM

OK the carbs on this engine where faceing forward when I got it and I did not like that as it was to close to the prop if ya had to adjust them.

I really was not to keen on dual carbs, but after seeing most the Gyros at Mentone haveing multipule carbs I decided to put them back on.
when I got the Engine from Dan M. he had just rebuilt the carbs and on the test stand we ran the engine up to 4,500 r.p.m. with out a problem, anyway with the way the carb setup was the linkage pulled the wrong way.

I turned the carbs around and now the linkage pulls the right way and the adjustments are easy to get to, So I guess I am going to give these a shot.

here are some pics. I need to figure out a way to mount some breathers. if nothing more then a screen and foam filter with a clamp.

do you think I will have any issues with the carbs faceing rearward and that close to the prop?

input requested.

All_In

08-25-2008, 08:44 PM

Good Job Tim.

Thanks for the update and pictures.

wayne331

08-26-2008, 09:57 AM

hay animal do you have carb heat,but you doing good.soon!!!!!!wayne.

animal

08-30-2008, 07:05 PM

Well I have decided pretty much how I am going to do the paint job.

I have decided on a base color of bright red and i am going to trim it with either yellow trim or silver trim with burgandy around the trim pattern.

the pattern is going to be like a big check mark on the tail and winglets and then on the sides of the body will be like a horazontal check with the short end ending where the windscreen brace starts and will run the long leg back along the door opening line ending where the body flare is

here are some pics of the braces for the Horz. stab and some of the body with the spot filler waiting to dry.

I also picked up some carbon fiber honey comb sheet to make a floor board with and plan to spray the inside with gray and white spatter paint.

it should look good when done. I am useing the same type premixed lacqure base coat clear paint that I did the bike with. it is cheap and looks good, just the clear is not very gas resistant. but I figure I have less chance of spilling gas on the gyro then I do gas leaking out of the bikes tank like it has.

anyway I think it should look pretty good for a cheap paint job.