Such a thing as a cheap Gyro?

[doeboy]

Is there such a thing as a cheap gyro? Im a student and im looking at building a gyro for a project and it seems most of them are fairly expensive $2k+ would building a gyro from scratch be that much cheaper than buying one thats already assembled and what not?

[jucie]

A gyroglider can be a lot cheaper than a full blown gyroplane. If you must go motorized, then a Gyrobee can be your best choice.

[Heron]

I can see a 4 k gyro . . .just could'nt touch it yet! But it is there!
Heron
Jucie: how a bout an AC4 modified?

[Chuck Irby]

Hello Brian, and welcome to the forum. One of the rules of the forum is that you state your full name in your profile. Please do that for us. Your age would be helpful also.

Re your question, there are used gyros available from time to time. I have a friend who, due to heart problems, can no longer fly. You can pick up his CL thrust machine with a fresh Mac, and no pre-rotator, for $3500, and maybe less. Let me know if you're interested.

[jucie]

Brian, this "AC-4" issue has nothing to do with you. I have what is left of an brazilian gyro named AC-4. Heron, I was wondering about that, but a modified version of the AC-4 wold be so much modified that it would be a totally different gyro, both in apearance as in performance.

Back to Brian issue, I think nowadays doesn't exist a better choice for Brian than a Gyrobee, a fully documented, extensively supported gyro. An alternative is a KB-2 like John's "Da Screwdriver", that uses an air cooled VW engine, a cheap engine. Don's Hornett is another alternative.

[PW_Plack]

Doeboy,

You worry some of us when you describe the "$2k+" range as "expensive." You're expecting to fly through the skies safely for the price of a 15-year-old Honda Civic. If you expect to enter the sport and survive, you probably need to budget $2k or more just for the required training.

[Dean_Dolph]

Brian, Paul makes a good point! These are not toys and consequently they are not cheap. But the point that Paul makes about training needs to be emphasized.

It appears over the years that there have been incidents where the pilot cut training short because the cost was too high. The cost of flying immediately got a whole lot higher when an incident happened. I think it is probably the norm, rather than the exception, that people do not include the cost of training in their flying budget. Please, do not make that mistake!

[ToddP]

If you expect to enter the sport and survive, you probably need to budget $2k or more just for the required training.


I also must echo Paul and Dean's advice. While gyro can definately be one of the least expensive modes of flying, it still costs some money. In my opinion you will never safely fly a gyro without spending at least 6-10K. There are probably gyros out there for $2k but I can almost guarantee they aren't safe in regards to thrustlines, horizontal stabs, powerplants or aircraft grade components. The other side of the coin is training. It will cost you about $125 an hour and if you've never flown before, you better plan on at least 10 hours, probably more.

I don't want to discourage you, I just want you to understand what the real costs are.

Gyrocopters are without a doubt the most fun I've ever had flying and I sincerely hope you continue your quest to fly one day. However I hope you'll take the time to read everything you can, and only get started when you can afford it.

Good Luck.

[GyroRon]

Ask John Stevens.... His KB-2 wasn't cheap! Far from it!

[Brent_Brown]

New rotors and head 2000
New motor/prop 5000
New frame/other 2000
plans built this would be about right

[GyroRon]

I know of a few gyros that are either for sale or have sold for under 3 grand complete. these are or weren't fancy gyros but they were flyable machines. but factor in like Todd said at least another 1000-1500$ for lessons and truth be told not many people will be happy flying a cheap gyro for long, most will want the nicer and more powerful expensive gyro....

[Caribean_gyro]

Brian
even if you get a 2k gyro. The first thing you want to modified it. I can bett that 2k is full of rust and is missing something. To give you an example. My aircraft was listed a in the high $200 to $30k finished. When I finished mine and add all the expenses I am near $60K. You will wind up the same. customizing and improving it.

I think you are missing a zero. $20k will get you a good gyro and training
I wish you well in you search.

CHuckP

[Chuck Irby]

Come on now Chuck. He can safely fly for a lot less than that.

[Dean_Dolph]

Ron, while you may be right, I don't believe a newbee has any business buying a used machine, especially if they don't have continuous access to experienced people. Building from a kit is very educational. Building from plans is also and might be cheaper but it will take longer and then the workmanship might not be as good.

Knowledge is what a newbee needs and buying a used machine is a disaster looking for a place to happen. Most of the used machines out there are older designs that are unstable. Not exactly what a newbee needs. I know we have former newbees on this forum that went this route and everything turned out okay but it still scares me when I see it taking place. I think 8 - 10 thou for a plans built machine plus 2K for training for a newbee without any piloting experience would be more like the norm.

[Chuck Irby]

Dean, I am curious as to why you have never been trained, yourself. I was almost 61 before I soloed. You ought to join us. I was always involved in some extreme sport, but never had any idea what real fun was till I started flying my Dominator.

[Dean_Dolph]

Chuck, good question and one I volunteer an answer too when in face to face dialog before some asks. This may be a long story to provide some background so hold on! Oh yeah, I've been drawing social security for several years now!

Like probably the majority of gyro folks over the age of, say 55, I was exposed to gyros by Mechanix Illustrated articles and Bensen ads somewhere around 1954. I sent in my $3 for a info pact which included a three view drawing and a thin aluminum template that one was supposed to use to make the wooden rotor blades. I was a teenager living in March windy Kansas at the time and I had visions of building a gyroglider and tying it off to a fence post and kiting. Well, it didn't take me long to realize that the wind didn't blow that hard for that long and the vision was just that, a vision. I also didn't have the financial resources or skills required to build at that time.

So, while flying in general and gyros in particular remained my strongest passion, the whole idea of flying and building was put on hold. I went to work in Southern Calif. in 1959 and anyone that has lived out there will tell you that there is more ways to spend your money and time than most mortals can come up with. This means that while I continued to follow gyros, I spent my time pursuing drag racing, slalom and kart racing, tinkering with motorcycles and spending time with my boat racing buddys.

I joined the PRA in 1967 (I think!) and that was when I really started getting seriously involved. However, the first thing I noticed was that there were a disturbing number of gyros falling out of the sky and the explanations of why didn't satisfy me. I didn't have a death wish and since I had more than enough other interests to keep me busy (remember I'm in California) I set on the sidelines and kept up with the developments. I visited El Mirage occasionally and attended PRA conventions in an effort to learn all I could.

I didn't get my first ride until 1988 at the PRA convention in Middletown (I had moved to Texas in 1975) when I went up in a Parson's and that machine shook so bad that I couldn't focus my eyes. I would have been concerned except the pilot was calmly talking to me on the intercom so I figured there was nothing to worry about. After we landed someone who knew that was the first time I had gone up asked me how I liked it. I told him that if that had been a car that I would have pulled off to the side to see what was getting ready to fall off! It was not an enjoyable flight. The next day I decided to try it one more time and went up with Gary Goldsberry in his Parsons and it was as smooth as glass. If I hadn't taken that second ride I probably would have walked away from gyros and never gone back.

I can finally answer your question by telling you that I took a few non-productive lessons from an instructor that has since retired. I may have been the reason! Actually I only took a few lessons just to see if I enjoyed it (which I did) and to assess my ability. I felt comfortable but in the years since I have had 'things' happen that have delayed building and training. Also I have a personal belief that a person shouldn't get their training until they are ready to fly their machine. But the real reason for not building/training is that until recently I still didn't understand why the gyro had the tendency to be killer. I can thank all of those that have participated on this and Norm's forum for providing me the info that I needed to allay the fears I had. The internet has made a big difference for all of us.

I have acquired a bunch of parts to build and hopefully it will happen soon but even if it doesn't, I will continue, to enjoy my association with the gyro community. Besides, if I build then I will lose my world's record of being in the PRA the longest without building a machine!

Now aren't you sorry you asked!

[doeboy]

I really appreciate everyones advice and forwardness. Believe me I am no fool.. I was more looking at just building one from straight raw materials and doing heavy duty stress testing on the welds and what not. I was just lookin for a lot of baseline information because all this building would be done under the supervision of college level engineers and a college with all the proper equipment. I was looking at the gyrobee... I even found a guy that had modelled it completly in pro-engineer and if thats the case I might be able to fabricate the parts from raw materials with our machines. Flight instruction would be crucial but its more of a project to keep me out of trouble and just to see if its possible =] . Again I do appreciate all the help you guys have to give.

[Chuck Irby]

Dean, this is the only life you have. My opinion is that you should enjoy it to the fullest. Therefore, IMO, you need to get a machine put together, take it to a good instructor (I trained in Texas, and can wholeheartedly recommend the instructor who released me to solo), get trained and start flying. You're not much older than I. Do it! You'll be glad you did.

[joeheli]

doeboy: You can get a gyro real cheap, I got my Bensen for $3000.00, but is to much work, time and money on rebuilding use gyros. I tear the gyro down to verify every screws,and tubes and belive me "there are alote of screws on a gyro" other thing, you have to check for any crack scrach, fatige etc. on the tubes and screw, like every one says and it is true " your life is on risk". So that depends on you . I really love rebuilding things and make it new again, but is still alote of time and money to spend. Or like every one says just buy a brand new KB-2 or a gyrobee. " TAKE ALOTE OF TRAINING TIME" and enjoy. :D

[PW_Plack]

Doe,

I'm told you can scratch-build a GyroBee, salvaging a few hard-to-fabricate parts from other machines or buying them from StarBee, and with a used Rotax 503, for $6K or a little more. This is probably the absolute bottom end, unless you're going to use aluminum stock not suitable for flying. It sounds like you might have access to the brainpower and tools to be one of those guys who gets it done in this range.

Still, 10 hours of training, a good helmet and a radio will probably total close to another $2K.

[Caribean_gyro]

The problem with us is that we want to have a corvette, porche but pay the price of a Kia . I am just been up front and putting in perspective what Corvette(aircomand) will cost.

The he can balance cash, expertise and training .

AS dean said building from kit you lear a lot. building from drawings , you better be good a slip on a dril and you ruin your aluminum.
ChuckP.

[Dean_Dolph]

In due time, Chuck, in due time! I'm going to die with my in box full anyhow so there is really no rush to get things done. I enjoy every day the way it is, so a gyro isn't really going to add much.

[scottessex]

I went about as cheap as you can get, I bought a basket case gyro for $2500, Totally rebuilt the airframe, some horse trading, major mods on the ignition system, etc, I am a liscenced A&P mechanic, and have access to fabrication equipment, and many resources that most home builders don't, I took 11.5 hours of dual instruction.
I am into this thing for about $6000! Believe me, when you have your first engine out, you wouldn't care if you paid $500 an hour for training! Just knowing what to do was worth 10 times the cost.
Remember: Cheap things are seldom good, and good things are seldom cheap!

[robertstodaro]

you could have picked this one up for 2k with a nice trailer.

It just has a belt drive rotax and a dented blade.

There are deals to be had, just be on the look out, but don't buy the first p.o.s. that comes down the pipe.

There's alot of people who you sell you trash and tell you it's good stuff. There's one listed in the Houston Chronicle right now.

The guy says he can't remember if he flew it two or three times. ( that should send a flag up.)

He says "it's good with many new parts and ready to fly".

It turns out to be from the 1950's.

[Screw]

Screw-In

I guess I'm Ron's Poster Boy for the mentally challenged. :D I knew that when I was ready to obtain a gyro, I didn't want a used one. Trust and reliability goes a long way. But I didn't want anything complicated iether. In my mind, "at the time," I wanted a Bensen styled gyro without any bells or wistles. Just a plain Jane Gyro.

If I knew then what I know now, I probably would have went with another gyro like a Dominator, but I wouldn't trade any of my experiances for the world. I've learned a lot.

I obtained training with Steve McGowan while building my brand new in the Box Ken Brock KB-2 for 11.5K. This encluded engine rotors, the works. I chose the KB-2 rather than KB-3 because the KB-3 was considered "Ultralight." I went with the VW engine with my KB-2 because the only other engine offered for it was the MAC and they were hard to come by and hard to work on.

This seemed like the least expensive "New" way to go.

Here is a shot of it when completed.

Screw-Out

[Screw]

Screw-In

However, "DaScrew-Driver" was a pig! Under powered and just not right. Overheating and just plaine scary!

Part of the problem was the rotors. The Brock 22ft rotors are very draggy and didn't provide the lift needed for good flying. From advice from Ron, Chuck Irby and a few others I tried a set of 23ft Dragonwings. Oh my God! I picked up 15 mph cruise and takeoff and landings were great! I love them and wouldn't chang a thing. Engine temps were reduced too, however, they needed to be reduced more.

I added an oversized oil cooler 12x12 with 1/2 inch hose. Now everthing is great. I was so pleased that when I fly, I have to sit on my hands to keep from clapping.

My little balsa wood instrument pod wasn't working out iether so I added a new pod.

To make a long story short. I've probably wasted 4k on equiptment from the factory that I've had to replace with aftermarket stuff. Also added things like pre-rotator and steerable nosewheel.

Also, the tail from Ken Brock didn't come with a Horizontal. The wing under the prop is a "Rock Guard!" I got a tail from Ron Herron with horizontal.

This is an updated pic of "DaScrew-Driver." I have over 14k invested and will never see this money again. She is a brand new 2004 KB-2 with a VW. The engine is great and loud! Hasn't even hickuped. I'm running Mobile One synthietic and Avgas. She stays cool and runs like a little rocket.

But the point is for the money I've spent, which should have been about 10k, I spent 14k, and could have had a CLT Dominator with a Rotax 582 or 618.

I have a littlewing project in the works and hopefully knowing what I know I can build it right the first time.

BTW- Gyros like "DaScrew-Driver" are for sale all the time for around 6k with a trailer. Some more, some less.

If I had the money, I'd buy that little red Dominator for $9,500.

Screw-Out

For the money

[Chuck Irby]

Well, Da Screw Driver looks great and flies very well, John, and I know from flying with you that you enjoy it immensely. I'm looking forward to the day we can all meet at Scott's again.

The next time, you don't have to put up money for food for everyone either. That was awful nice of you to do that though.

Maybe we can talk Scott and Mary into having us again after Scott is back in the air, and the weather is a little cooler. You guys are welcome here anytime, too.

[Chuck Irby]

If anyone is interested, this machine could be purchased, with a decent trailer for $3500. It's just nine miles from my house and belongs to a good friend of mine who will never be able to fly again, due to his heart condition.

[david holmes]

Brian,
I bought the FIRST gyrocopter that I'd ever seen for $2500 -- with a trailer --- the guy had never flown it and his wife wanted him to get rid of it BADLY. The engine ran and it flew -- a true Bensen style with MAC engine. I added a starter and had many happy hours with it -- and many more Guardian angel visits. Steve McGowan checked me out.

Unfortunately, I rolled the machine over and bought my second machine for $1500. I flew it until I gave up on MAC's and converted it to SUB's. This machine met it's waterloo on a golf course and burned. etc . etc.

from $2500 I'd guess I'm into gyros about $$40K now with PUFF at $28K. The air conditioned hangar is about another $10K

It helps to be single with no other obligations and be on Social Security.

BTW How do I add a picture to this blame message????

[Chuck Irby]

David, Mike Gaspard explains how to post pictures here:

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1274

[Chuck Irby]

David, just make it a little smaller than your monitor screen and it should work. If that doesn't work, email it to me and I'll post it for you.

How are you doing since the last treatment, David? Maybe you need to come over for a day or two so we can solve the worlds problems. You could even watch me fly. I'll bet that would give you the bug again.

I sold them at 402.5 and just bought more at 391.1

[gyromike]

David,

In your photo editing software (Microsofrt Photo Editor, Paint Shop Pro, Adobe PhotoShop, etc.), you should have an option to resize your pictures.

To post a picture on this forum, I'll usually reduce it to 650 pixels wide, (or 9 inches if you work in inchs). That'll keep it all on the screen without having to scroll sideways.

The forum has a 150 kilobyte file size limit, so your pictures must have exceeded that limit. I like to use PaintShop Pro because you can set the compression value allowing you to reduce the file size without distorting the picture. I'm sure other software has the same feature.

Here is a picture I cropped to 650pixels, and used a compression value of 38. It was originally 22 inches wide and 813 Kb, now it's only 40.9 Kb:

[Chuck Irby]

Wow Mike! Nice shoes. :D Is that a cane field on your right?

[gyromike]

Chuck,

I'll have to remember to shine my shoes next time I take a picture of them. :)

Yes, that's a cane field on the right. And just to the left of the trees is the runway.

[GyroRon]

Looks like you got one dead cylinder in that shot Mike!

[Chuck Irby]

Thanx Mike. However, I was dead serious about the shoes. I normally wear worn out thongs that cost $2.50 at Wal-mart when they were new.

Ron, you have a talent for being observant. I noticed it too, just didn't say anything about it.

[joeheli]

Hey Mike: Where I can find a pod like that one that you have?. Them Ron you shod be a detective! :D . And, before to ask me about the tape Ron "bastard", Don't worry I will send it to you!. I am on vacation, and belive me I don't want to touch my job floor on my days off! I have enough of it already.. :D

[Chuck Irby]

Jose, I recently saw a AC pod for sale on eBay or Barnstormers. I think it was eBay.

[scottessex]

You don't need no stinking pod! Fly open!! :D :D :D

[joeheli]

I will check it out. Thank's

[joeheli]

Well I think the same way as you scott, but where I goin to place my Tach.,cylinder temp, altimeter dial?. Let me see..... I got it !I will go to Gordon's to make me a Movado wash or a key chain, with all that on it. :D :D

[joeheli]

I din't find the pod Chuck. If you see it again please email me.

[Chuck Irby]

Jose, it's probably been sold by now. However, Scott is right about flying it open, especially where you live. You could get an instrument panel like Screw's. You don't have to paint that ugly scene on it though! :D :D

[joeheli]

Hey Mike: Where I can find a pod like that one that you have?. Sorry, what I ment is a instrument panel!. Not the Big like aircommand pod. Is a instrument panel like GyroMike.
:o

[scottessex]

OH! instument pod, I got it. John Stevens had a couple at one time but I think he sold them. Maybe someone here has a spare one they don't need.

[joeheli]

Chuck, I saw a pic that maybe can be helpfull to know what I meant. Sorry Scott! :o

[Chuck Irby]

Yeah, that's GyroMike on top and Screw, I think, on the bottom.

[gyromike]

Inspector Ron,

Actually I had a couple of faulty CHT ring thermocouples that needed changing. I did that this past week. All are indicating normally now. They were a tight fit on the plugs and every time I took them off it work-hardened the wires and they broke. THe new ones are a little looser.

But you missed the fact that my TinyTach wasn't working either! :eek: But I changed it out too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jose,

The pod I have is an old B.J. Taylor pod. He doesn't make them anymore, but someone had found some similar, and posted pictures.

Here's a thread on instrument pods:
http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=631&highlight=instrument+bensen

[animal]

Is there such a thing as a cheap gyro? Im a student and im looking at building a gyro for a project and it seems most of them are fairly expensive $2k+ would building a gyro from scratch be that much cheaper than buying one thats already assembled and what not?

What part of n.c. are you in? I have an airframe for a bensen that I started a drop keel on, has metal tail,ken brock stick, rotorhead( but was set up for hughes blade) and a new RFI subaru prop hub.
I will let ya have it for $700.00, that is less then what i have in it.
I am in greensboro.
e-mail me at ncra@bellsouth.net and i can send you some pics.
that would at least get ya started and right down the road I can get ya a subaru engine for around $200.00 maybe less.
hope this helps ya.

[Whirlydog]

Straped for cash? you can steal some of your kid's leggos and build this one real cheap. or buy the GI JOE model.

[Whirlydog]

I just found another one

[Rando]

This one actually flies!

[gyrodude]

I have several instrument pods like on the Bensen. I loaned one to Brent Brown for a pattern. He should be able to make those for anyone easily. Get in touch with him if you need one like that.