Interest in tractor style?

[WHY]

Have noticed for sometime now that when a comment,picture or information about a tractor style gyro shows up on the forum there seems to be more and more posting of questions related to the subject .

I know that I have been intersested in the tractor for quite some time and started my project (on paper) over 18 years ago. Have "crashed " probably a dozen or more models ON PAPER (the best way to crash) and probably another 5 or 6 in the proto type phase (while still unfinised and on the ground).

I was able to accomplish all of this in this maner because of the excellent help and friendship of the many friends that I have made over the years in the PRA . So many of them that have had a wealth of information on both the pusher and the tractor and have been willing to share it and in doing so have many times shown me where I was making a big mistake in my design at the time and helped me correct it. Sometimes this was on paper and sometimes it was when they looked at the proto type or just a picture of the proto type. At any rate serious mistakes were avoided, and now I have finally managed to get a airframe near completion (after working on it for over a year and a half) and am working on the motor mount and next will be the landing gear. From experience, I always make everything first out of scrap material or mild steel as a pattern, before I go for the real thing because I have found the I can rally get a big scrap pile quick, (I almost have the art of making mistakes down perfect).

I know some have asked for pictures and I have not posted any yet. The reason for this is my ability to make so many mistakes, I preferr to get as much as possible worked out so that others do not copy my mistakes and thus find it quite expensive and time lost and become discouraged with the tractor, (and me).

Because of the expanded interest over the last couple of years, I would like to know just how many are interested in tractor or are building or perhaps own a tractor. So I am submitting a simple poll to see what the numbers are.

1. are you interested in tractor design
2. are you building a tractor design
3. do you own a tractor design

Tony

[Airone]

Count me in I am rebuilding a Pitbull gyroplane and hoping to be flying this next spring :wave:

[Vance]

I like a pusher for slow because you can see better and you don’t need an enclosure because the wind is only how fast you are going. In a tractor the air speed behind the prop can be double the forward air speed. I have spent enough time on a motorcycle with an open faced helmet to know that for 75 plus a windshield is a good thing.

If I was going to build a faster gyroplane I would need a canopy. This mitigates the challenge of the prop blast. A tractor seems to have a lot of advantages for streamlining and the structure is so simple. I think that for 75 plus miles per hour a tractor has real advantages.

A high speed autogiro is kind of an oxymoron though.

Thank you, Vance

[GyroDoug]

This poll does not have an option to choose if you are not interested in a tractor Gyro, not building one or already own one. I would think this would be a pretty significant percentage. And without this base to compare the other numbers to, the other information looses relevance. At least that's how it seems to me.

Gyro Doug

[Tina]

I am very interested in the tractor disign, since one came up in my area for sale.

I got a hold of some video of one flying and they look fun. Landing looked fairly easy tail first in most cases or a 3 point landing. Take off looked a little different, the nose comes up first then you kinda drag the tail up last.

I did hear they are a safer gyro to fly is this true? Is there more to flying one then meets the eye? Can I get instruction any where? :noidea:

[WHY]

Hi Doug

No option was given for the pusher because no numerical comparison or percentage ratio was being sought. It is clear that the larger percentage by a vast margin are in the pusher catagory, was just looking for the number of parties interested in the tractor.

Tony

[WHY]

Hi Tina

As far as training, at the "present" there is no one that I know of that has a two place for training. How ever it has been suggested that training in a two place taildragger in the "ltra lite"catagory can be very valuable in learning the ground handling nature of the tractor style gyro, since they operate more in the same speed rangeon the ground. A full size taildragger will give good experience but usually at speeds faster than a gyro operates on the ground, with this said those with full size taildragger experience will find it very usefull.

Tony

[Tina]

I am getting some duel training next week in a vantage Globe Swift which is a tail dragger.

I will have lots of questions to ask this Pilot. The Pilot is also looking forward to seeing our gyros. I will have to show him the video I have of a tractor gyro and get his opinions on the flight differences of a tail dragger verses a tractor gyro like this.

To me so far they look different in the landing and take off but probably have the same principles which is, keep that hammer head behind you at all times with rudder control!

Here is link to the Swift page neat little planes.

http://www.napanet.net/~arbeau/swift/wordpics.htm

[WHY]

HI Tina

If you get good with that Globe Swift, you will be a pilots pilot, they are some what on the edge of a high performance machine .

Tony

[kc0iv]

I am getting some duel training next week in a vantage Globe Swift which is a tail dragger.

I will have lots of questions to ask this Pilot. The Pilot is also looking forward to seeing our gyros. I will have to show him the video I have of a tractor gyro and get his opinions on the flight differences of a tail dragger verses a tractor gyro like this.

To me so far they look different in the landing and take off but probably have the same principles which is, keep that hammer head behind you at all times with rudder control!

Here is link to the Swift page neat little planes.

http://www.napanet.net/~arbeau/swift/wordpics.htm

Tina,

The first thing to learn when flying a tail dragger is "Fly it until it is tied down."

Leon
(kc0iv)

[Airone]

If you need that tractor gyro for you MS Flight sim until you get a real one.
http://www.simviation.com/menu.html and search for (unreal) and you will find 2 different tractor gyroplanes.

[John Stahl]

I have seen one tractor and I was impressed with how quiet it was.

[Kandace]

I am interested in Tractor Gyro's.... for a future project perhaps. I'd like to go with Ron Herron's Little Wing. I love the way it looks and there is a 2 place version! But first my BEE!

As far as tail dragger flying. I have a whopping 60 or so hrs in a J-3 and I'm instructing in one now. The biggest difficulty is to pay attention! always! I impress this on my students everytime we fly. If you don't it WILL bite you eventually.

Kandace:whoo:

[Ron E]

I am VERY interested in a small tractor gyro that will comply with Part 103 and will be as maneuverable as a pusher gyro. I am not interested in the nostalgia and the looks, or the lazy performance, of the original tractor autogiros. I want something that is "zippy and sporty", and near idiot-proof to fly.

That is why I came up with the Rotor Scooter! Only time will tell if I met my objectives and if the effort was worth my time. I plan to have it at Bensen Days 2008.

[Brent_Brown]

Ron when are we going to see something. Can you post photos of it yet? Is it flying?

[Ron E]

Ron when are we going to see something. Can you post photos of it yet? Is it flying?

Brent,

I will post something pictorial as soon as my design is protected.

Work has started but it won't be ready for an airstrip until at least Jan. 2008.

[jcarleto]

I don't think I care much for a tractor-style gyro. I like having the noise, prop wash and exhaust (and on a really bad day, the oil, smoke and flames) behind me. Fixed-wing notwithstanding, I'd prefer a twin, to get the engine "stuff" away from the cabin to a single-engine if it didn't come with twin maintenance costs. Although, the only pusher FW I ever flew had horrible flight characteristics, owing to a dangerously HTL design.

I also prefer my bugs live and whole as opposed to diced and sliced. They make a much bolder statement upon the windscreen that way.

[WHY]

Hello to all

Would like to thank all who have answered the poll on the tractor style gyro.

It is quite evident that a high percentaqe of those asnwering the poll are interested in the tractor even though they do not have one or are yet to build one.

With this in mind, maybe a few short e-mail request to the PRA (editor) might help to get some of the great articles on tractors that were printed back in the 70's 80's and early 90's, reprinted again, these articles answered a lot of the questions that have come up on the tractor here on the forum, all the way from flight characteristics, to construction methods and ground handling, most were by Jim Eich or references from Arliss Riggs many many years of building and flying the tractor style gyro. The important thing is that they were by the people who had "been there, done that". These would be a great addition to the accomplishments of Ron Herron and Andy Keech.

Tony

[Dean_Dolph]

....It is quite evident that a high percentaqe of those asnwering the poll are interested in the tractor even though they do not have one or are yet to build one.
...Well, of course they did Tony, you didn't give any one a choice that said they preferred a pusher or didn't like a tractor!

[WHY]

Hi Dean

Read post #6

Tony

[Dean_Dolph]

Yeah, I read post #6 but your post that I responded too makes it sound like the tractor enthusiasts are in the majority and consequently deserve more mag coverage. I disagree with the first conclusion and agree with the second if only because of maintaining diversity and making new enthusiasts aware of what has transpired and is available.

[Warren Traweek]

Still seems to be a lot of mystery and questions about Tractor Autogyro flying. Have tried to address some of this in recent postings in the Pitbull thread. I am NOT at all an expert on the subject but our Pitbull now has 52+ hours on it and hopefully the postings regarding that might provide a few answers. Thanks.
- - -warren traweek - - -

[Airone]

Hey Warren
I want to thank you for your impute on the Pitbull, as with 52+ hrs in the Pitbull gives you more insite than someone that has 0 hrs.

I have 5+ hrs in a Pitbull and that why I give John VanVoorhees phone number and email address out so other can go to the source and get their question answered.

There is alot of things that can make the Pitbull a better aircraft, I have know John since the late 80's and he want to build a aircraft that meets the ultralight req. and affordable.

The best thing about the Gyro's if you dont like something about it; you can change it or go out and build your own, and thats the best thing about this forum you use everyones idea's or not.




Still seems to be a lot of mystery and questions about Tractor Autogyro flying. Have tried to address some of this in recent postings in the Pitbull thread. I am NOT at all an expert on the subject but our Pitbull now has 52+ hours on it and hopefully the postings regarding that might provide a few answers. Thanks.
- - -warren traweek - - -

[WHY]

I have a lot of respect for John Vanvorhees, after working all these years on the design I am presently building I really admire someone that can build "light and Simple" IT AIN'T EASY !!!!!!!!

Tony

[hawaiianhealer]

Ron when will you post of photos & or drawings of your new ultralight tractor gyro? We all are looking forward to it

[Ron E]

Ron when will you post of photos & or drawings of your new ultralight tractor gyro? We all are looking forward to it

It won't be too much longer. Probably February or March.

The application for the design patent and a utility patent is almost ready to file. After that I can go public with it.

I think it will appeal to many certified fixed-wing fliers who like to have the engine and prop in front so they can keep an eye on everything. It will be small, light and very different from what others have done. I think it will appeal to many established gyro fliers who want something small and different. Everyone will like the mast !

Later, I will be offering an optional enclosure for cold weather flying, if it won't cause any unsafe flight characteristics.

I'm writing tonight from my hotel room in the beautiful Imperial Palace Casino in Boloxi, MS !! The wife will join me on Saturday. Merry Christmas !!

[Ron E]

Ron when will you post of photos & or drawings of your new ultralight tractor gyro? We all are looking forward to it

It won't be too much longer. Probably February or March. I plan to have it flying at Bensen Days '08.

The application for the design patent and a utility patent is almost ready to file. After that I can go public with it.

I think it will appeal to many certified fixed-wing fliers who like to have the engine and prop in front so they can keep an eye on everything. It will be small, light and very different from what others have done. I think it will appeal to many established gyro fliers who want something small and different. Everyone will like the mast !

Later, I will be offering an optional enclosure for cold weather flying, if it won't cause any unsafe flight characteristics.

I'm writing tonight from my hotel room in the beautiful Imperial Palace Casino in Biloxi, MS !! The wife will join me on Saturday. Merry Christmas !!

There is a $50,000 drawing on Saturday at the Grand Casino! See you there!

[glider]

Hi, I'm Pierre from Milano-Italy.
Very interested in tractors. Waiting for some good plans to build over.
Ciao
Pierre