upgrade kit aircommand

[job]

First, I'm still figgering out how to use this forum at my best.
I find it a little hard to find back the reactions on things I wrote.
This is my first new thread on the forum.
The other messenges I wrote where reactions to other members.
So if I understand well, When you put a new thread it reaches áll members
of the forum?
No metter if it's the builders corner or generel discussion corner etc. etc.
Like I wrote before, search under -job- , here you find why I became a member , why my englisch is bad( I'm Dutch, so I live in the Netherlands)etc.

So now to bizyness:

I bought an old style aircommand single seater without any upgrading.

Rotax447, upside down.
Composit blades.
No HS.
NADA!
I'm new in this wunderful gyro world, so I'm not even think about flying it!
In spring I planned to go to TX to take flying lessons to instaal the upgrade kit on the machine and see my femaly who live in Glenrose.

Pritty close to Caddo Mills where all the gyro action is going to be.

My questions (have much more) are:

Has somebody of you fellows installed such an upgrade kit on an aircommand?
Can enyone send me a pictures of a complete upgrade kit, so also the engine
installer that will put the cilinders where they belong and will make the machine a more CTL-er.
And is there somebody that can tell me his/her experiance flying both
conversions?
That's it, for now.

Like I said ; I planned to come in spring.
But my new plan is to fly to Baltimore(there the gyro still is).
Meet my cousin there rent a truck and drive down to TX.
This will be in the period , 26nov.07 ---->05dec.07.

Thanks for reading and hope to hear,

job (Jo Bischops):rapture: :rapture:

[gab76]

Hi Job,

You basically have to throw away a lot of the airframe parts and begin anew.
The upgrade will cost you close to what a brand new AC gyro cost.

My suggestion if you choose to continue, is negotiate a very low price for the gyro. I wouldn't pay over 3 to 4 thousand US dollars for the old style gyro. You are essentially buying blades, engine and propeller! The rest, save a few parts goes into the re-cycle bin!

The construction of the CLT kit consist of beginning with a new mast hung from the ceiling with clamping devices holding the other airframe parts to it until all the angles are correct and then plates and fasteners are secured. A lot of the parts are bolt secured alum plates. There are few holes drilled through other alum tubes to secured parts along the mast. It is a nice design.

For safety, I vote for the CLT configuration for new pilots flying gyroplanes. Many old designs are flying with very experienced pilots who love them just the same, but if you read previous post made here you can get alot of background of why the CLT is the way to fly.

[Racer]

Jo, Here is a Pic of my AC CLT upgrade. Please note that I put a Dominator tail on and I have a Geo motor hangin on there so it is not exactly stock. Hopefully someone will share a pic of a stock one with you.

[barnstorm2]

job,

When I bought my CLT upgrade kit it only cost me $1500.00 and since a new AC kit is like $15K I don't know where Greg is coming from on that one.

Rotor-head took your exact machine and did the upgrade. He took a video of the process and made a time-lapse video he posted on his web site.

You should check that out.


.

[gyro]

I did my own CLT for about $200.00 it was a stock gyro to begin with. below is a link that shows what I started with and what it looks like today.


http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13964 (post # 10)

[Airbike]

Hi Racer,

I really like the idea of using the Dominator Tail. Could you provide details on what you had to do and materials required to make it work?

Thanks,

Eric VanPraag

Air Command CLT 582

[Rotor-Head]

Here's my Upgrade in fast motion (I had already put on the extended keel and stabs.. http://www.rotor-head.com/video/clt_time_lapse.html

[Jamie Cleary]

Hi Job,
I live just 35 miles from Baltimore and am very familiar with
Air Command's mine just made the 100hr mark it is built from
a few parts of an early Air Command and many many new parts
I actually enjoyed the build process and if I can do anything to
help while you are in the area let me know, we could even do the
upgrade in my garage I need a winter project.
Let me know if I can be of service .

Jamie Cleary

[job]

Hello Greg,

I called you a few months ago, I'm the guy from the Netherlands Remember?
We planned that I should call you in December.
It's about taking gyro lessons in Caddo Mills somewhere in spring.
Sorry if you are not the Greg I have in mind!
But if,

I just booked my ticket to Baltimore.
From there my cousin and I drive to Glenrose(where he lives) with that old AC I bought, $4900!! Héppp!
I'll go on with this project, no way back!
I called with your college (John Norman) I believe about the upgrade about $1800.
So still far under the new price.
I'll be in Baltimore 26nov.
27nov. ---> Glenrose.
So at the end of Nov. we hopefully arrive.

I stay in TX till 5 Dec.
So if you see a change we could meet!
And plan or take some lessons.

GRT,

job (Jo Bischops)

[job]

Hello Jamie,

The offer you made sounds great!!
I"ll arrive at Baltimore 26nov. 22:59h
We could meet the 27th.
You could check that AC I bought!
I go back to the Netherlands at 05 Dec.
I leave from Dallas.
Also the truck for transport to Glenrose is arranged.
Otherwise I really fiel that upgrading in your garage is a verry good plan.
What better expertice could I which.
Anyway thanks for the offer .Which new this before.
But I hope we can meet.
What about visiting you on my trip to TX.

Thanks

[job]

That tail is something for me to consider during the upgrading!
Thanks

[job]

Thanks for the info.
I agree wih you on the upgrade price.
Meaby Greg thought about incl. the money for the person to do it for me.
I'm going to do it myself.
Althought that offer of Jamie sounds good to me.

Thanks

[job]

Gyro ,
I'm going to check!
Thanks

[job]

Rotor-head,

You like the performance of the 447?
When I was young I worked a lot on my 2-stroke engine of my mopet.
So working at the Rotax 447 should't be a problem for me, or?
Thanks for the info.

[Racer]

For those who are interested on how I put a Dominator tail on my air command.
#1 My keel I converted from the stock round tube into 2" x 2" square tubing. I connected the two by using the tube inside if a tube inside of a tube technique. I made the square tubing parallel to the ground at that joint.

#2 I bought a tall tail and ended up cutting the top side down to allow for Rotor blade clearance. If I were to do it again I would just buy the shorter tall tail, (They sell 2 sizes)

#3 Made a simple bracket to connect the top to the two 6061 T6 seamless connecting tubes. (I had to put a slight bend in them for proper prop clearance)

Made brackets for top side out of 2"x4" Square tube, Basically cut one of the
2" sides out of it and ran a bolt straight down through the square tube and round tube to hold it all together. Bolted the base into the cheek plates that hold the Rotor head.

Just a note I made plugs for the ends of all four ends of the upper support tubes to keep the through bolts from crushing the tube.

Also at the top of the tail where the support tubes come together I machined a V shaped plug to bolt through, This gave me side to side stability.

I will go take some close ups if you would like and post them, A picture can explain much better than I can. For now these are the best pics I have.39577

39578

39579

[gab76]

Sorry about the knee jerk reaction to a Job, buying and old style gyro. I was just quoting what I had heard Air Command saying to people who was going to buy one. I saw and heard different phases of business technique while I was down there.

I hope the conversion is an easy one for you, Job.

Yea I am the guy who talked to you about instruction. The new start up business I partnered in is going good but consuming all my time right now outside being a full time psgr svc agent for American Airlines. I have been down to AC ---once--- this year. Just to deliver their trainer back to them from my house, and finally pickup my new tandem, buy a trailer and bring it home to Missouri.

My new trainer is almost finished. I am waiting for a Subaru "ignitor" to start it up and begin systems testing.

[Rotor-Head]

Rotor-head,

You like the performance of the 447?
When I was young I worked a lot on my 2-stroke engine of my mopet.
So working at the Rotax 447 should't be a problem for me, or?
Thanks for the info.
I actually like my 447 just fine... A bit more power would be nice, but I am getting used to a "worst case scenario" as far as power is concerned and hopefully that will continue when I go with a bigger motor,

[CLS447]

Gregg, I have never met you but Doug Smith always speaks highly of you.

Please tell us more about your trainer( & pictures).

Start a new thread(under Air Command?)

Thanks

[Jamie Cleary]

Jo,
Keep me informed and I will try to meet you in Baltimore
and help anyway I can,are you shipping the gyro back
home when you leave Texas??

[gab76]

Hi Chris,

I will try to get something in soon. Thanks

[panda_nzzz]

Hey Racer
Do you know what the new tail weighed?

[Racer]

The tail was almost 3 pounds lighter than the stock AC tail with the horizontal plates on it, but by the time I built the upper support hardware it was within 2 ounces of the stock AC short tail. I will have to look up the weight, I wrote it down and that info is in the shop, I'll get back to ya on the final number.

[job]

Jo,
Keep me informed and I will try to meet you in Baltimore
and help anyway I can,are you shipping the gyro back
home when you leave Texas??

Jamie,
Jamie ,


The plan is to leave the gyro in Glen Rose TX. with my cousin.
Over there I'll do the upgrading.
Becauce I have very little time this ride there will be no upgrading.
My plan is to come back in spring.
Like I said I have no experience with gyro's, yet.
And the more I read on the forum the more I realize that this project
is going to be a tough one!
In TX. there is nobody that I know who has the expertice I need for this project.
But I really want this project be a succes and fly the machine in the future.
After I flew it a couple of years in the US I plan to ship it to the Netherlands.
Ofcours when I can fly it overhere under much less severe regulations then it's at the moment.

The offer you made to do this upgrading at your place isn't a bad idea at all!!
If you like we could make a plan for this.
I realize that the time I'm in the States this time will be short.
Dec. 6 I leave from Dallas.

In the case your serious about doing the upgrading at your place
It would't be a problem for me to cancel the truck rent and stay a few more
days longer then planned in Baltimore to discus with you how to make a plan.

After that few days anyway my cousin, who arrives 27nov. in Baltimore, and I drive back to Glenrose, without the truck and the gyro in the case you decide to the upgrading.
In that case we just would rent a normal car.

Hope to hear from you to discus all of this, like the financials etc etc.
I'm very free in changing my plans this ride.

GRT,

Jo


I

[dragonflyerthom]

Joe\

I might be able to help you do your modification if Jamie can't.

[job]

Sorry about the knee jerk reaction to a Job, buying and old style gyro. I was just quoting what I had heard Air Command saying to people who was going to buy one. I saw and heard different phases of business technique while I was down there.

I hope the conversion is an easy one for you, Job.:Cry:

Yea I am the guy who talked to you about instruction. The new start up business I partnered in is going good but consuming all my time right now outside being a full time psgr svc agent for American Airlines. I have been down to AC ---once--- this year. Just to deliver their trainer back to them from my house, and finally pickup my new tandem, buy a trailer and bring it home to Missouri.

My new trainer is almost finished. I am waiting for a Subaru "ignitor" to start it up and begin systems testing.

Don't worry about that knee jerk, it wasn't:Cry:

We can make a fly training plan, soon in TX?
Or if you can't then you know another instrucktor in the neighbourhood
of Glen Rose?

[job]

Joe\

I might be able to help you do your modification if Jamie can't.

Wunderfull:whoo:

[job]

Can't open the upgrade video!
Could be very usefull to me.
The river ride I could, very nice.
that gives me the power to go on .

job

[Racer]

Here are the pics that I promised earlier of my tall tail conversion

[Jamie Cleary]

Jo,
I am serious about the upgrade and have no problem with you
leaving the gyro here til spring or whenever you will come after
it I can have it done before then with no problem, as far as $$
just actual expenses incurred and maybe a little propane for my
heater as the weather gets colder, I can even haul it here for
you I have a trailer I haul mine with.
I will send you a private message with my contact info as time
gets closer.

[NoWingsAttached]

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12086

Here's my CLT conversion, but on a Tandem, not a single. It proved to be very strong, very cheap. Like about $300. All of the orginal aluminum was incorporated in the upgrade.

[job]

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12086

Here's my CLT conversion, but on a Tandem, not a single. It proved to be very strong, very cheap. Like about $300. All of the orginal aluminum was incorporated in the upgrade.

Greg,

The material you use is: T6061 ?
Are the also other aluminium alloy's you gyro builders use like Al. T6061?
These kind off materials are verry hard to get in the Netherlands.

I readed (red?) about your upgrading.

JOB

[job]

Jo,
I am serious about the upgrade and have no problem with you
leaving the gyro here til spring or whenever you will come after
it I can have it done before then with no problem, as far as $$
just actual expenses incurred and maybe a little propane for my
heater as the weather gets colder, I can even haul it here for
you I have a trailer I haul mine with.
I will send you a private message with my contact info as time
gets closer.

Jamie,

Sounds like a good plan!
I'll wait for your message.

GRT,

JOB

[job]

I actually like my 447 just fine... A bit more power would be nice, but I am getting used to a "worst case scenario" as far as power is concerned and hopefully that will continue when I go with a bigger motor,

Please check what I wrote 2510...

JOB

[job]

Guy's,

If you want to check the gyro I bought at ebay , then put ;

ebay gyrocopter aircommand , in the google search machine.

Feel free to give comments.

GRT,

job

[gyroplanes]

I built a tall tail gyro some time ago. One of the biggest headaches was the interference between the prerotator and the mast-to-tail supports.

Now that I have acquired Wunderlich's Inc. I have found that he had a bracket that moves the prerotator upper unit to the side of the torque tube and outside the tail supports. A very handy item

I have plenty of these in stock. I also have photos of them in use.

[bpearson]

Tom, I need one of those brackets. Good to see some pictures and prices to send to UK. Thanks.

[Phil_Ruffin]

I have found that he had a bracket that moves the prerotator upper unit to the side of the torque tube and outside the tail supports. A very handy item

I have plenty of these in stock. I also have photos of them in use.

I'd like to see a photo Please.....

[gyro]

yes Tom...We need pics!

[Jamie Cleary]

Jo,
Did you get my email??

[job]

Jo,
Did you get my email??

No, I didn't.