Please check my pre-rotator hoses

[13brv3]

Greetings,

I looked at some pics previously, but couldn't find anything that specifically told how to hook up the pre-rotator hoses. I ended up hooking mine up just like a photo that I found, but I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me if this looks correct.

On the subject of hydraulics, what is the fluid of choice? The Parker info on the pump says it's compatible with petroleum and glycol based fluids. I don't think I'll be putting glycol in it, but that still leaves lots of choices.

Thanks,
Rusty (lots more questions coming)

PS- Yes I did try to call Ernie, but he's on vacation :p

[GyroRon]

power steering fluid is what Ernie says to put in them.

I believe you put the hose from Side A on the pump to side B on the motor and from Side B on the pump to the container then from the container to side A on the motor..... But I could be wrong.

[scottessex]

Yes just powersteering fluid, as far as the hoses go if you hook it up wrong it wont work, so if that happens just swap the positions on the hoses! :) Of course the resivoir is on the return side.

[13brv3]

Ron and Scott,

Thanks for the comments. Now that you mention it, power steering fluid would be a logical and available choice.

As for the routing, I will check today to see if it's like you suggested Ron. I set mine up from a pic I found on the forum, but that's no guarantee that it's correct, because the pump can be mounted 180 degrees out from where it is now. I didn't look inside the top of the motor, but it might be able to be turned around as well. The A to B answer would certainly be the only way to be sure.

I'd really like to do it correctly the first time, so I don't have to take apart the full system and dribble fluid everywhere. If I can't find a definitive answer, I'll maybe wait until Ernie gets back to fill it up.

Now I have to figure out how tight the belt needs to be...

Thanks,
Rusty

[Doug Riley]

Rusty: The hoses look right. Turn the pump pulley by hand the way the engine will turn it (vigorously!) and the Bendix will turn in the proper direction if it's hooked up right.

I use tractor hydraulic fluid.

The belt should be just tight enough to engage when the handle is fully squeezed -- no tighter. Make sure there's a belt guide to keep the side of the belt OPPOSITE the tensioner wheel from ballooning out. If it does that, the belt will grab and engage in flight and make a racket.

[13brv3]

Grreat comments Doug. Thanks.

I've got the belt fully loose now, figuring that looser is better, but it's also possible that it might be able to come off, which probably wouldn't be so good.

I already noticed that the tensioner needs to be in a position to keep the belt from ballooning out, but there's no such guide on the opposite side. This is exactly how it came from RFD, but I agree that there should probably be something on the other side as well, and I even saw a pic of someone who used a long bolt for such a purpose, and that would be simple to do, so I shall.

Finally, there was an old thread about vented vs unvented caps for the reservoir. The idea was that Ernie said you'd get better performance with the unvented cap. At the end of the thread, you had purchased a new cap, and were going to try it unvented, but no results of the test were ever given. It's hard for me to believe it makes a difference, but I'd love to know what you found when you tried it.

Thanks,
Rusty

[Doug Riley]

Yes, that guide opposite the idler has to be there. It can be as simple as a bolt. The belt should be held almost in its tensioned position; just barely slack of that.

Vented cap: I tried an unvented one. It did seem to add to RRPM on spin-up, but it cracked the reservoir bottle and started a leak. I want back to a vented one.

[13brv3]

Hi Doug,

Thanks for the "rest of the story". I wasn't too keen on the idea of having that reservoir pressurized at all. From the looks of the welds, I'm worried that it may leak even without pressure :p

Rusty (welding my custom step)

[13brv3]

Just a follow up to say that everyone was correct. I filled the system, and it does engage the bendix when turned quickly by hand.

I turned it enough to get most of the air out, then filled the reservoir a little more full than I wanted it (maybe 3/4" from the top). In an effort to get the last of of the air out, and drop the level some, I tried turning the pump backwards. Bad idea, unless your goal was to pump oil out the top of the reservoir :Cry: At least it lowered the level :p

Rusty (mostly panel and electrical remaining)

[robertstodaro]

this might be helpful too.

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3609&highlight=woes

[13brv3]

Hi Robert,

I read that post when I was first looking into this, but thanks for the link. In case anyone cares, here are some pics of what I added for a belt guide. I can rivet a thicker piece on the belt side of the guide if this turns out to be allowing too much slack.

Rusty

[robertstodaro]

there is also some trouble with the pump mount ears breaking, are you up to date on that?

I don't know what E.B. does but here's a link
http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2699&highlight=broken+pump+mount

[13brv3]

Hi Robert,

Yep, I've read that one as well. I was impressed to see that Ernie has made an attempt to correct the flange cracks. In the old pics, there's just a large AN-4 washer under the bolt. As you can see from the pic, mine came with a nice 1/4" aluminum piece to spread the load.

There were a couple other places where he's obviously improved the design over the years as well. While there are still a couple things I'm not crazy about, it obviously works, and he's clearly taking steps to fix the parts that don't.

Cheers,
Rusty

[GyroRon]

I ended up replacing the flange on my White Dominator about 3 times before finally buying a 4 bolt flange and having a machinist friend of mine make me a new mounting plate - the 4 bolt flange uses a smaller centering hole and the bolt holes are all closer together - After replacing the flange to the 4 hole version I never had another problem and you could abuse the heck out of the pre rotator and still no problems.

My new two seat Dominator, Low hours, and it already has a broken flange, noticed it today..... I have one more new 2 bolt flange left over from switching to the 4 bolter on my old machine, so I will change it out and have my friend make me a new mounting plate...

Ernie really should just order his pumps with this 4 bolt flange and make that the standard flange. The 4 bolter should be the same cost to him and would only cost him time to drill 2 more holes and to two more bolts to put it on with.... But would save the users of the darn thing alot of troubles

[13brv3]

Ron,

Do you have the 1/4" aluminum piece as shown in my picture, or were both of yours just using large washers?

FWIW, I agree that the 4 bolt flange sounds like a good way to go. If you end up buying another 4 bolt flange, how about doing us all a service and post the part number for it.

Cheers,
Rusty

[Mike G]

What make and model of pump and motor are you guys using?

Mike G

[GyroRon]

My two seater has the newest " Washers " arrangement Ernie is sending out like in your picture. I noticed a hairline crack on the flange at less than 15 hours total time, and now it is totally cracked.

[13brv3]

My two seater has the newest " Washers " arrangement Ernie is sending out like in your picture. I noticed a hairline crack on the flange at less than 15 hours total time, and now it is totally cracked.

Thanks Ron. That's depressing, but good to know, and I'll keep a close eye on it while you're getting that 4 bolt flange part number for me :p

Rusty

[GyroRon]

What make and model of pump and motor are you guys using?

Mike G

Mike, I don't know off hand. It is what Ernie provides. I took the data plate off mine and the old broken flange to the place here in town I bought parts from and they had parts right in stock, it is a common unit in other words.

[13brv3]

When I got mine from Ernie, I made note of the numbers. I guess I'm just funny like that (funny strange, not funny ha ha). From my notes-

The pump is Parker, ER= QC-05378, MGG20025 BA1B3
The motor is Parker, ER= QC-05489, 9-1182

I found info online for the pump using the MGG number, but nothing on the motor. You'd think the QC number would be the one that would be listed, but I sure couldn't find it online.

Rusty

[Mike G]

Rusty
From the catalogue it looks like the pump should be PGG20025 BA1B3 and the motor MGG20025 BA1B3. The first letter (P or M) being pump or motor.
If you want the 4 bolt version it would be PGG20025 BB1B3.

What speeds do you run these pumps and motors at from beginning of pre rotation to the end and what rotor speeds do you get?

Mike G