Ultrasport ( Sportscopter) 496 Turbine

[keithbaker]

Anyone wanting to ask any questions on the 496 Please do so.
Currently involved in retrofitting ultrasport 496T with the T62-T32 Turbine
final flight tests carried out last week in cyprus. Absolutely unbelievable.
the t62 is not an APU. questions invited.
Keith Baker

[CLS447]

How about some pics ?

I, for one, would love to know more !

[Brent_Brown]

If it is not for a Gen or APU, What aircraft was it used in that is FAA certified?

[Brent_Brown]

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/gas/t62t32.htm

[keithbaker]

It was not certified nor used in the aviation industry as a power plant for helicopters.

It was designed for a military spec for a single engine helicopter way back but the project was dropped ,so the military decide to use as an APU.

It was i think the only continuos turbine that the military used as an APU.

The biggest problem people have is where they try to change the design spec, and encounter eventually problems

The 496 is complimented by this engine.

KGB

[Caribean_gyro]

I am trying to balance the blades on a 496. and I am ruuning nuts. Vibration is small but when we have 2 on board it reduces. I have use strobe at night laser rpm tester . have adjusted lead and lag track.

any help is very greatfull. I can send pics of the machine. Keep me posted on the upgrgade
chuckP

[scandtours]

Anyone wanting to ask any questions on the 496 Please do so.
Currently involved in retrofitting ultrasport 496T with the T62-T32 Turbine
final flight tests carried out last week in cyprus. Absolutely unbelievable.
the t62 is not an APU. questions invited.
Keith Baker

Hi Keith from Giorgos and Nicolas (Cyprus.)
We hope youve enjoyed your stay here. Many thanks also for the CD with all info re Hirth engines. Heres one more pic of the 496 helicopter with
T62-T32 tubine engine. When I first posted this thread for some time ago many thought that it was not a turbine but an APU.
Keith, its always nice talking to experts and experince people.
Giorgos

[keithbaker]

Hi Nic & Giorgos,

I was glad to meet you both and also pleased i could help out.
We cannot believe how well the 496 went.
As i put in the thread above ,it was used as an APU in the US Military.

But the electronics we used and set up just made things picture`perfect.
Now Kiss Aviation(i believe,) are wanting it from our German Physicist ,. Thomas.
The rotorway conversion is a big job where ours is installedin 20 minutes.
How do i put a couple of videos on here.

but our complete package is the answer for 496 people.

[keithbaker]

To caribean Gyro,

It is very simple and i can help you.
have you had anyaccelerometers on the aircraft, what is your IPS speciallythe one on rear for lateral.
But first, is it new aircraft or old one. i ask becau your readings are only as good as your hardware and from what you said on the thread it is ok and not OK .
First go to blade ends and try and move the leading edge up and trailing edge up and down note movement and the check otherside ensuring if there is play in the controls it is even and not excessive ,should be a part of your preflight as well its a quick reference that everything is ok.

Blade tracker can help for sure ,if your track is close, its a good start.
Do lateral balance and check IPS.and clock angle. this is best way to go.

This way you can check vertical and lateral balance.
Your Lateral is the drag braces but you must ensure when you are going to sweep a blade, Undo MAIN rotor rretaining bolt and raise blade so that it will swivel and not bias one way against the grip. This will allow a fine adjustment

Dont put weight in your blades use AN4 washers out board on that centreline screw, Remember its only alum. and the threads are delicate.
Leave washers outboard fulltime.

What Manual do you have ,there has been corrections to the chart that is in the older manuals pre 2003.

Go this far give me your IPS and Clock angle, and i can help further.
its all about getting the move line on the chart heading for 0 in the middle.where it goes dtermines the next MOVE.

Just to let you know i have balanced these blades to .01 IPS laterally and vertically. They are a nice blade to tune regards KGB

[Caribean_gyro]

keith
The 495 is Manolos (heli496) machine I am helping him out.
To answerd your question this is what we have done.

we have weight each rotor blade and tail blade. any diference we have use paint to balance them. We have put all linkage as per the manual. what version I will check with Manolo.

We used once a chadwick. but we can not find the guy again. to help us. we have a variable strobe. we made 2 plates with a "-"/ "l" and with the strobe we have been able to get them to draw the "+". now we have not balance them in the hub becasue we tried once with no luck perhaps we didt it wrong.

We will go back again and try your suggestion. We are searching for some cost effective acelerometers or a 2 channel chadwick but all too expensive so far.

the vibration is as in a 2 place gyro , not that bad but when we move foward it feel worst.

We have call the factory, we even told them if they were willing to come down and track them and the cost but no answerd to it.

any way I will be in touch
thanks
chuckP

[keithbaker]

Chuck,
Thats a good start with a good track.
Weighing the blades and painting them is OK ,but the blades are set against a master blade and are normally OK ,but when painting use the same amount of paint (weight) on each blade.

This will set you up satically only , and i can guarantee you 100% that dynamically it will need correction . So do as i have said and we will be on the right track so to speak.

The Newport News people are short of personel ,so the reason they didnt contact you i dont know ,nothing new.
If i was closer i would go myself. I am not working for them anymore ?? and am still helping people that i dealt with personally ,feeling morally bound and my experience is vast on the 496.

Secondly if you are looking for a cheap balancer contact John Spurling at PRO-Drive Inc he is a manufacture of Rotorway after sales parts . i have bought three for various people.
Thirdly Our electronics man in Germany is building balancers for sale but are not ready yet.Thomas Beaumgart he often blogs on here.

Now obviously you dont have the equip to do as i said .
If you have patience try this.

Go to a blade and wrap around the blade one inch masking tape .
note where it goes on and how many wraps. test aircraft and determine whether it is better or worse. if worse you are on the wrong blade go to other blade do the same ( take other tape of first.

If it is a little better put extra tape on maybe half a wrap, try again.

sometimes it is better to put a couple of wraps on first to get a clear picture etc.

If you suceed weigh the tape and put a washer/s on to same weight. An AN4 washer generally runs at about 4.5grams.
put tape as far outboard as you can.

Try that and see how you go .
let me know one way or another.

The problem with helping people is not getting feedback when it works and plenty if it doesnt. i like to know bothways.
Regards
KGB

[keithbaker]

I withdraw my statement about in this case You say the Company didnt reply.

Their engineer emailed me Mr J.L. and said he did spend sometime trying to help out with the problemand there was ciscussion about going there to check it out.

I would like to say this! If you are seeking help please give the full story ,then its easier to get to the root of the problem and your saying to yourself ,this guy cant help either.

first thing is there was damage done to the aircraft, to what extent.
the vibration you have may not be rotor system but you have an airframe problem that jumps to the rotor , engine mouting ,xmn mounting etc.
i have run across these things within the company research etc.

you say that the vibe varies in the air ith load and unload type of thing.
this is a sure indication that there is something amiss somewhere.

The point is keep looking, at everything. Helicopters Kill people for not taking the hints that they give.
This one of the most stable small helicopters that i have been involved with and that does include larger commercial ones as well.

Its dynamics are very similar to a Bell helicopter.
Continue with the blade work ,and chek rods ends all are equal in wear.

try what i said about the blade end twisting each one and watch and feel for excessive wear in an area,this can produce a cross over blade .

Regards
KGB
This is not a rebuff just trying to help:)

[Caribean_gyro]

I withdraw my statement about in this case You say the Company didnt reply.

Their engineer emailed me Mr J.L. and said he did spend sometime trying to help out with the problemand there was ciscussion about going there to check it out.

Yes did happen But as per the info I got from Manolo( I am the pigeon that deliver the meassage) He never got a replay on the cost of them coming down., He has work with John and is greatfull but still have not nailed the problem.

I would like to say this! If you are seeking help please give the full story ,then its easier to get to the root of the problem and your saying to yourself ,this guy cant help either.

I dont make up anything I just pass on the inf. I got. This is why in my last Mail I stated the Heli is Manolos machine and I was trying to help.

first thing is there was damage done to the aircraft, to what extent.
the vibration you have may not be rotor system but you have an airframe problem that jumps to the rotor , engine mouting ,xmn mounting etc.
i have run across these things within the company research etc.

you say that the vibe varies in the air ith load and unload type of thing.
this is a sure indication that there is something amiss somewhere.

The point is keep looking, at everything. Helicopters Kill people for not taking the hints that they give.
This one of the most stable small helicopters that i have been involved with and that does include larger commercial ones as well.

Its dynamics are very similar to a Bell helicopter.
Continue with the blade work ,and chek rods ends all are equal in wear.

try what i said about the blade end twisting each one and watch and feel for excessive wear in an area,this can produce a cross over blade .

Regards
KGB
This is not a rebuff just trying to help:)


ALso we have not made any more test. since the tail boom was dismantled.

The heli incidents have been.
1: support upper tube from boom to mast was broken whne trailering the heli to the hangar a 4 mile trip. after inspection the tube was replace with a more strurdy tube . the boom and tail was inspected and nothing else was found bad. But prior to this tarck was done with a chadwick and as per Manolo it was smooth

2: The machine got the rotor tail stuck and found 2 broken bearings and broken shaft. SInce this was an old machine with unknown hour , we think never fly, we concluded bad bearing due to aging. So new shaft and bearings.

3: Engine overheated due to broken fan belt with a hard landing with only a broken shy. He has the carbon fiber type. Engine send to get fix, new cyl/fuel injection/new cdi. blades were check , paint nicks and static balance.

4: Back to basic and manul and factory advice and started to work on vibration. We use as I said (2 reflective plates for the "+" and adjusted one night to almost smooth as silk. But in the morning the vib was back. So what is the diference at night dont know.

So besides not changing the boom we have try every thing. SO you know as much as I know. But I will email Manolo and copied you so you guys can sync and talked 496 Stuff.

Thanks
ChuckP

[HELI496]

Hi my name is Manuel Diaz I am the owner of the 496 helicopter which is having problems on the tracking of the main blades
the heli was balanced and tracked perfect when I finished assembling it on 2006. the heli was used but owner will not fly due to misplaced gas intake that donot let full power so he didnt fly it can start but not accelerate
the heli was dismantled painted and assembled again this took a year
my friend chuck assisted on this assembling
the bending of the upper boom support I dont think did something bad to the performance of the heli the support was replaced with a more strong one as Ultrasport has modified it ????? since then it doesnt perform ok I did removed the main blades for the towing to the airport at Humacao where my friend Chuck has a hangar there
when the blades were attached the tracking was erratic
We have tried several ways to balance none with good results
I did bought a strobe light and rpm sensors this aid a little but still there is vibration on the cyclic stick specially upwind when downwind it lowers
there is also less vibration when added weight on the passenger side
I replaced rod ends bearings on all pushrods adjusted all terminals
did string lead and lag adustment there I might be doing it wrong I am on this area ??????
I dont have access to a Chadwick any more I am planning to buy the DSS Personal Micro Balancer (www.dssmicro.com) ???? I am spending $$$ I dont get results
John and Jennifer at Ultrasport have been excelent supports eventhou I didnt buy the heli from ASII I have constant comm with them
I will be very gratefull from all the help you can give to this matter, I have been flying (hovering) a little but with these vibration Its really difficult
Thanks
Manuel Diaz

[Caribean_gyro]

this is a pic of the heli 496

[SamBose]

Hi,
Does anyone have any info on Ultrasport 496 turbine conversion? Thanks, Sam