*wave* from Idaho

[Shimmy]

Hello, All.

I'm Jeremey Weeks and I've signed up here to ask a few questions and see if I want to invest in a gyroplane.

I'm interested in part 103 craft and I really appreciate all the information on this site. Thanks much.

[dragonflyerthom]

Welcome Jeremey


Good Luck in your search.

[Dean_Dolph]

Hey, Jeremy, ask away! This is the definitely the place to ask and while the community can get a little rowdy at times, it is the best aviation community around.

One question of my own. Why are you asking about a part 103 machine?

[Fl90]

Part 103 is the closest you can get to the way it's supposed to be.

If you're going ultralight, remember, simplicity.

Phil.

[Timchick]

The gyrobees if built as close to the plans as possible are part 103.

[Shimmy]

I'm interested in part 103 mostly because I don't have the time to get a license. I've been told that I can count my time in a part 103 machine toward hours, which would be helpful, but honestly, I just want to fly.

[Shimmy]

I'm taking a hard look at the Gyrobee.

Since I turn a wrench in my spare time, I'd rather have an engine I can yank out of something else, like an opposed piston engine from a subaru. I can pick up such an engine and rebuild it for less than $500. I don't think I'll be able to find a part 103 craft that will take something like that though.

This is simply a matter of dollars, I don't want a hobby that will hurt the rest of my budget. If I have to go with a Rotax, I will.

[gyroman]

A subaru weighs in at close to 200 pounds. Part 103 has a limit of 254 pounds empty weight. Not likely you could bring just the airframe in under 54 pounds. Gyrobee won't take a heavy sub engine.

Also, you can't use your time in a part 103 aircraft towards a pilots license.

[vista]

If you have not already seen it in the classified section . . there is a Vancraft Rotor Lightning (http://www.rotaryforum.com/classifieds/classified.php/ad/100) in Arlington, Washington.

[Shimmy]

Thanks for pointing out that classified ad, Vista!

I think I'm in love with the no-cockpit idea. I saw a pic taken from in the air showing just the pilot's feet and lots of open space. Amazing!

[Shimmy]

about the subaru motors, I didn't realize that they were so heavy. I DO have a couple motorcycle motors that might do the trick as well. I know most people would be disgusted that I wouldn't just stop fooling around and buy a rotax. The fact is, I have an 1100cc in line 4 (yamaha) and and a honda gl1000, a 1000cc opposed 4. I'm betting the torque might still be an issue and that I'd have to run the engine RPMs too high for too long.

[GyroDoug]

Jeremy,

Welcome aboard!!! We are in the same neck of the woods if you will. I am just a few hours south of you on I-84. However I believe we share some of the same issues when it comes to flying a Gyro. While I agree with you, and would like to have as little government involvement with my flying as possible I don't think you'll be as happy with a legal part 103 machine as you first thought. Because of the altitude here in the west, unless you are a small guy (150 lbs or less) you may not be able to get the performance you will want out of a machine. And even if you are a small enough guy to make it possible you will have to live without things like a pre-rotator or brakes which most of us really like to have. I think as you study it all out you will find going to an experimental gyro and getting a sport pilot lisence will be a lot more practical for you. Also a very imoportant thing to remember is that even though you can legally fly an ultralight gyro without any training or license it is suicidal to do so. You will need the same amount of training either way. And training can be a major pain to get out here. But it is critical if you want to live to enjoy this sport. By going with the sport pilot program you can fly a heavier gyro and a lot more options will open up to you. Take you time and check out all your options before you get in a hurry to do anything. Enjoy the journey and welcome to a very addicting sport.

Gyro Doug

[Shimmy]

Thanks, Doug!

I heartily agree about the training. I've rolled the dice too many times with my life and definitely feel how mortal I am. That's a big reason the gyroplane appeals to me. It seems like (simplistic newb statement here) all I have to do is drop the throttle and haul the stick back if I get into trouble.

I'm reading as much as I can so that I won't waste that training time with questions I could have figured out myself.

[GyroDoug]

Jeremy,

Gyros are fairly simple to fly and are more fun to fly than anything else I ahave ever been in. However, there are a few areas that you can get into trouble with that can end very disasterously. That's why you will here everyone say how important it is to get training. Unfortunately there have been several very experienced pilots with thousands of hours in other aircraft that thought they could handle a Gyro without training and they created a smoking hole in the ground. The key is to find a modern, stable design, don't try to change the design if you are not a qualified aeronautical engineer, and then get trained for what you want to fly. Done properly this is the most rewarding and incredible sport you can get involved in.

Best of luck!!!!
Gyro Doug

[Dean_Dolph]

Jeremy, the reason I asked why you were interested in a Part 103 machine was to find out your feeling about training. It is always a red flag for me when I see new people interested specifically in Part 103 gyros.

Ultralight, experimental or what ever, requires sufficient training and proficiency in order to fly safely. Most new people don't include the cost of training in the project and then when they get to that point want to do it on the cheap. That isn't the place to try and save money.

Most instructors will say that their biggest fear is a student who gets to a certain point where he/she thinks they have learned enough and doesn't return to finish their training. The next thing the instructor hears is that the student has hurt a gyro. If I understand correctly, Doug Riley has an answer for that; he doesn't teach them how to get off the ground until they have learned all the rest. If they are foolish enough to try to get off the ground and actually suceed then at least they will know how to fly the gyro and get down again.

[scottessex]

about the subaru motors, I didn't realize that they were so heavy. I DO have a couple motorcycle motors that might do the trick as well. I know most people would be disgusted that I wouldn't just stop fooling around and buy a rotax. The fact is, I have an 1100cc in line 4 (yamaha) and and a honda gl1000, a 1000cc opposed 4. I'm betting the torque might still be an issue and that I'd have to run the engine RPMs too high for too long.

You really don't want to be a newbie pilot and test pilot at the same time.
As for the motorcycle engines, if it was that easy it would have been done already, I too though the same as you before I started flying, The motorcycle transmission is heavy and just alot of extra weight to drag around, The the oiling system must be modified to remove heat from the cylinder heads.

Not trying to discourage you, just learn to fly a reliable machine first, then play test pilot. :)

[dragonflyerthom]

Jeremy, the reason I asked why you were interested in a Part 103 machine was to find out your feeling about training. It is always a red flag for me when I see new people interested specifically in Part 103 gyros.

Ultralight, experimental or what ever, requires sufficient training and proficiency in order to fly safely. Most new people don't include the cost of training in the project and then when they get to that point want to do it on the cheap. That isn't the place to try and save money.

Most instructors will say that their biggest fear is a student who gets to a certain point where he/she thinks they have learned enough and doesn't return to finish their training. The next thing the instructor hears is that the student has hurt a gyro. If I understand correctly, Doug Riley has an answer for that; he doesn't teach them how to get off the ground until they have learned all the rest. If they are foolish enough to try to get off the ground and actually suceed then at least they will know how to fly the gyro and get down again.


Very good advice Dean

Rotor management is crucial to the beginning of the training process. Then there is the run up take off and landing. Even the flying can bite you in the a$$. There really isn't any shortcut to proper training. How much is your life worth???? Aviation is the only hobby where one misstep can and will kill you.

[Shimmy]

I can understand those reservations.

The last thing I did without training was go snowboarding. I had some pretty bad spills and didn't have much fun. Next trip up, I got the lessons. I STILL had falls, but I could fall more safely, slow down, etc. That's just for snowboarding, how much more does the need for training apply for being a thousand feet in the air?

I'm also not going to know what to look at when examining my craft for airworthiness. I have to have the training.