Gyroman..or anyone else with some input [Archive]

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Bart098

11-06-2003, 02:08 PM

Gyroman, * * Hello, i am the guy on the star bee gyros MB that you answered all the questions for. * ::) I have another couple questions for you. * * I read up on your web page about your progress in building your Lone Star Gyro. *I noticed that your airframe is basicly completed. *You mention that you are on a budget. *How much aprox. have you put into what you have right now money wise? *I really need to nail down some figures so i can see how feasable starting this project is going to be. *I have seen vast ranges in prices for the kits. *Think i even saw a kit go for 11k. *That is way to much money for me to spend. * * * Also i have been reading up an read somewhere that the push style gyro is not as safe as a tractor style. *The tractor style might as well be a plane as far as i am concerned. *However, the article i read (wish i had the link but i found it at work and not at home where i could have bookmarked it) *mentioned that due to the uneven thrustline to seat allignment it caused problems with stability in relation to the torque generated by the engine. *Is there any data on this that you are aware of? * * I want the ultralight so that i dont have to deal with all the FAA standards for pilot training. *If you remember i mentioned i was going to be working on my PPL. *Well that wont be hapening anytime soon due to the fact that i was unable to get into the local flying club. *Was just about there when someone before me on the waiting list decided last minute that he was going to join after all (maybe down the road i will get another shot at joining). *I realize i will need some training on flying the gyrobee but where do i get it? * Doesnt the training need to be aircraft specific? *I was thinking that i might be able to go somewhere for 3-5 days and take lessons. *Would that be adequate training? * * * Based on what little bit i can find on the parts needed for the gyrobee i will most certainly have to buy (meaning not construct) 4 main parts as i see it now. *The engine (mayhaps a rebuilt to cut some costs, i have faith in my small engines skills to make sure i dont end up in trouble with that), rotor blades ( i dont see how anything but brand new would suffice for pure safety reasons), the rotor head ( i have tried to get a good look at one from pics on internet but have not seen any that told me much of its design, i figure i will have to buy new on that as well) and a tail propeller. *What are your plans for this on your gyrobee? *I am assuming that you have not completed it based on your web site. * *I know i am bombarding you with questions but i would love to be in the air by next summer if at all possible and could really use your-or anyone elses- opinion on these matters. *These wont be the last questions i am sure =). * Thanks John

PW_Plack

11-08-2003, 04:21 AM

John, I wish you the best in pursuing our common dream, but be careful not to pile up risk factors. "Cheap" and "Ultralight" can be a bad combination. If you're not going to get your Private certificate, I'd suggest you at least do the cheap part - take ground instruction from a flight school. You'll spend 10 weeks and about $350, and it will be oriented toward fixed-wing, but the parts on weather, communications, regulations will all be common to rotorcraft, interesting background in dealing with you future airport-mates, and worth the effort. Those FAA regulations you're anxious to duck are a pain, but they're there for a reason! On the tractor-vs-pusher question, a pusher is what most people decide to build, but there are basic stability factors beyond proper design. If you've ever noticed how much better a front-drive car is on ice, or how much easier it is to pull a trailer with your car than it is to back up, you'll recognize one difference. You'll need some training no matter what you build and fly. My decision was to make sure I train with a CFI, because the AFIs and BFIs seem about the same price, but the instruction doesn't count toward the Private ticket should I want it in the future. (And I do.) If you're building a single-place, try to get instruction in a two-place which has similar layout and controls. That's the closest you can get to "aircraft-specific" in the world of experimental gyros.

Bart098

11-09-2003, 11:56 AM

Thanks for the input.  Safety is paramount in my consideration for this.   I really need some realistic figures on what it costs to build the airframe though.  At least that way i know how much i will need to get started on that.  Engine,rotor blades, propeller, and rotor head i have fairly decent idea on. The airframe i dont.  I fully expect to recieve some training.  It would be a foolish thing to do just to jump in something and try and fly it.  

gyroblackwell

11-10-2003, 06:08 AM

John, Maybe I can help out a little on the basic cost of material for the Gyrobee. 1) 2" square  1/8 wall 6061-t6 aluminum tubing. I purchased 3 72" long @ 25$ each. 2) 1"X2" rect. tube 1/8 wall  72" long. I purchased 2 @ 17$ each. This is the basic frame tubing. If you go to OnlineMetals.com you can look all this up. bottom line - about 500$ for the basic frame/bolts/nuts/washers/etc. 100$ in wheels, tires, and tubes from lockwood aviation in sebring FL. Seat can be rigged from the simplest (school desk chair - fiberglass) to the more expensive (seat tank from Ken Brock Mfg. 275$) The motor, prop, and rotors are the big ticket items. a couple of builders have used jetski motors with success. I found a rotax on E-bay for 500$ A prop will run you about 400$ (IVO 2 blade). It all adds up! The good news is that you don't need ALL of it ALL at once! Buy a little, and build a little, then buy a little and..... you know what I mean?!? Good luck! Use the internet to find suff as cheap as possible. Tim

gyroman

11-17-2003, 05:01 AM

Sorry John, I've been on vacation the last week and have not logged into the conference. Looks like most of the guys have answered your questions. As for the cost of my gyro it's in the $400 range for airframe components plus I have to buy some AN hardware for the final assembly which will be another hundred bucks. As for tractor vs pusher, the tractor design is your best bet for safety but there are no ultralight tractor designs that I know of. Plus there are no kits readily available unless Ron Herron of Little Wing Autogyros has gotten some frames made up. Other than that you are stuck with a plans built. I have to agree with Tim on building the aircraft. I spent 6 years reading the conference dreaming of the day I would build my gyro and never doing anything about it. I never seemed to be able to save the money to buy all the parts for the airframe. I finally just started buying a little whenever I had some free cash and it seemed I got the airframe together rather quickly. The trick is to get started.. buy a keel tube here, the mast next month. Working on the pieces in the mean time keeps you busy. The next phases is where I getting stuck at, with rotor head at approx $600, blades at $1500 plus, propeller at $400. Gets expensive quick.. However, I am a scrounger, my seat went for nothing, gas tank was 20 bucks from some guy on an ultralight forum, and I plan to build a pump handle stick like John Landry's which shouldn't cost to much. Good Luck on getting started..

DougKspokane

11-17-2003, 11:01 AM

I'm somewhat in your same boat... lurking and wishing.  I contacted Starbee about their kits, and they are willing to offer modified groups (I wanted the 980K airframe kit less the seat and wheels and they emailed back a price of $1985 plus s/h).  I need pre-punched aluminum because I don't have the drill press, etc. required to do it properly from raw stock.  I've read a lot and searched a lot, and Ron and Tim seem right on the mark for the other stuff, from what I have found. I *WILL* get up there... some day... oh yes!  ;D

epfannenstiel

11-18-2003, 01:45 AM

I am in the process of building mine.  I haven't got very far and am just in the process of mounting the tires.  I bought a drill press for a hundred bucks and it is working fairly well. Evan Pfannenstiel