Pilot Incompetence

[Dean_Dolph]

I commented in another thread that I had a question or two that needed to be in a new thread. My questions are primarily for instructors but anyone should feel free to comment. Not that anyone needs permission or would hesitate! :D Non instructor pilots, it would be interesting to get your view of these training questions.

Some of you have seen, or heard, me make the comment that if several pilots laid their pilot certificates on a table, that there isn't any way for anyone looking at them to determine who is the most or least competent or for that matter actually incompetent! The same is true of a physician, by looking at their certificate you can't tell if they graduated at the top of their class or the bottom. Think about that the next time you visit with one........

And the same thing is true of instructors of course. But my questions have to deal with how instructors make their judgements.

1. How do you instructors judge the competence of your student at any point in the process?

2. Does your training syllabus have defined progressive steps with defined goals?

3. Is there certain criteria that has to be met? If so, what is the criteria? Or do you just go by your observations and gut feeling?

4. Do you think that there is anyway a competence or grading scale could be developed? Is the number of hours flown the best, or only, indicator of competence?

5. What emphasis is made on transitioning the student from your two place trainer into the students machine? Any difference or emphasis when the students machine is a lighter single place? What about transitioning into a machine that is not one of the more stable ones or into one that is recognized to have stability problems?

Oh yeah, I chose this thread title because I thought it was more of an attention grabber than anything else I could quickly think of. Can anyone say 'pilot sensitivity'?

[Doug Riley]

Dean's questions, with my answers:

1. How do you instructors judge the competence of your student at any point in the process?

If it's a flight task, I ask the student to do the task and watch what happens. If it's a knowledge item, I quiz them orally. Asking them to explain something to me as if I were a student is a great way to test someone's understanding.

2. Does your training syllabus have defined progressive steps with defined goals?

Yes. Dean, I think you've seen my syllabus. If there's interest, I can post it here.

3. Is there certain criteria that has to be met? If so, what is the criteria? Or do you just go by your observations and gut feeling?

There is a list of tasks for each lesson. The student must do all of them competently to pass that lesson.

4. Do you think that there is anyway a competence or grading scale could be developed? Is the number of hours flown the best, or only, indicator of competence?

Hours are largely irrelevant, of course. You don't need a scale, just pass/fail for each task.

5. What emphasis is made on transitioning the student from your two place trainer into the students machine? Any difference or emphasis when the students machine is a lighter single place? What about transitioning into a machine that is not one of the more stable ones or into one that is recognized to have stability problems?

I will not accept a student who is planning to fly an unstable machine. The Dominator won't train them to cope with such a machine; it's too easy to fly. Transition from the trainer to a lighter machine is done by getting in the light machine and pretending you don't know how to fly a gyro: taxi, lift the nose, crow hop and so on. Same thing I would do myself in an unfamiliar 1-place.

Photo from last weekend of Dana Linn enduring a lesson with me is attached.

[donshoebridge]

Doug,

Attachment? Where?

Don

[Doug Riley]

Had to shrink the file.

[donshoebridge]

Doug,

Where was the photo taken?

Don

[Aussie_Paul]

Hey Doug, are you the ugly one in the back? :D

Aussie Paul.

[Dean_Dolph]

Hey Doug, why am I not surprised that you gave us an in depth reply. I thought we had more instructors visiting here than it appears we do. Than again, maybe they just don't want to step in it! :D

While there hasn't been a large response to this thread, it might help some of our visitors and newbees who don't post if they could see what they can expect in a training syllabus. So, if you have the time and it is convenient then posting your syllabus would be good.

Okay, Aussie Paul, when do we get your position on this subject?

[Aussie_Paul]

Soon. Aussie Paul.

[Doug Riley]

Paul, no, the back seat driver is Dana Linn of Starbee Gyros. I'm the ol' greybeard in the front seat.

The photo was taken at my home airport, Allenholm in South Hero, VT., a couple weekends ago. South Hero is on an island in Lake Champlain. The scenery is gorgeous (lake and mountains) and the terrain is flat and open. Nice, benign training country.

Syllabus attached in Word.

[Chuck Roberg]

I agree with Doug's reply. I would only like to add I tell students the following. What they can expect from me is to be taught the same procedures and progression in my machine that I expect them to follow when learning to fly their own machine. In other words don't just hop into their machine and expect to fly it safely.

I explain each machine is different and as such they need to learn their own machine. Everything from how the engine sounds at different RPM's to control feels and responsesill be different. Plus different rotors and diameters affect performance also. A lot of different items affect how a gyro sounds and performs. As such each one is uniquely different.

So I highly suggest each student go slow in learning their own machine and don't take any short cuts.

Since most of the students are not located close to me. I provide a preprinted sheet with the steps I expect them to take in their own gyro.

I have a training syllabus posted on my web site.
Gyroflight (http://gyroflight.8m.com)
Note! I am NOT looking for any new students. I only posted this here to provide more information.

[Udi]

...The photo was taken at my home airport, Allenholm in South Hero, VT., a couple weekends ago. South Hero is on an island in Lake Champlain. The scenery is gorgeous (lake and mountains) and the terrain is flat and open. Nice, benign training country.

Doug - I'm surprised there's a runway on this little island. Do you live on the island? Last summer I visited Lake Placid; just a small hop from your island... My inlaws live in Albany.

Udi-

[Udi]

Note! I am NOT looking for any new students. I only posted this here to provide more information.

There's nothing wrong with looking for new students. We don't have enough instructors and we should help the one's we've got.

Udi-

[mceagle]

Dean, the following is the flight training syllabus that we use in Australia. It may partly answer your question. Until we had a common syllabus, we found that instructors were teaching in all sorts of order and some were not teaching some parts at all.


SYLLABUS OF GYROPLANE FLIGHT TRAINING

The following syllabus specifies the minimum standard that is required by ASRA Student Pilots. Qualifying numbers are used to indicate the degree of ability required for each individual item within a particular subject as follows:

CODES

1 Assisted by the Instructor, ability to perform the activity correctly.
2 Ability to perform the activity correctly without assistance, under
carefully supervised conditions.
3 Without instructional assistance or supervision, ability to perform
the activity correctly and adjust actions to cope with emergencies.

SYLLABUS
Before solo - Applicant for Pilot Cert
1 . Gyroplane assembly 1 3

2. Preparation for Flight;
a. Gyroplane documents 1 3
b. Pre?flight inspection 2 3
C. Starting and warm?up 2 3
d. Power check 2 3

3. Ground handling:
a. Use of power 2 3
b. Control of direction 2 3
C. Use of brakes 2 3
d. Rotor ground handling 2 3
techniques
e. Pre takeoff checks 2 3

4. Operation of Controls
a. Primary effects of controls 2 3
b. Effect of slipstream and 2 3
airspeed
C. Bank/rudder co?ordination 2 3
d. Further effects of rudder 2 3
e. Power/rudder co?ordination 2 3
f Ancillary controls
(1)Trim 2 3
(2)Engine controls 2 3

5. Straight and level flight:
a. Control of attitude, altitude 2 3
and direction
b. Maintenance of heading at 2 3
different airspeeds
C. instrument indications 2 3
d. Lookout and separation from 2 3
other traffic
e. Recognition of and recovery 2 3
from PIO

6. Climbing:
a. At recommended power and 2 3
airspeed
b. Maximum rate 2 3
C. Maximum angle 2 3
d. Engine handling 2 3
e. Instrument indications 2 3
f. Lookout and separation from 2 3
other traffic

7. Descending:
a. With power 2 3
b. Without power 2 3
C. Engine handling 2 3
d. Instrument indications 2 3
e. Lookout and separation from 2 3
other traffic

8. Turning:
a. Lookout and separation from 2 3
other traffic
b. Level flight: 2 3
(1) Medium 2 3
(2) Steep 2 3
C. Descending turns.? 2 3
(1) Medium 2 3
(2) Steep 2 3
d. Climbing turns 2 3
e. Instrument indications 2 3
9. Slow speed flight:
a. Approach to and recovery
from flight on the back side of 2 3
the power curve
b. Avoidance of and recovery
from flat spins (discussion 2 3
only)
C. Engine handling 2 3
d. Instrument indications 2 3
e. Lookout and separation from 2 3
other traffic

10. Takeoff:

a. Into wind 2 3
b? Cross wind 2 3
C. Short takeoff 2 3
d. Soft field takeoff 2 3

11. Circuit planning:

a. Standard gyroplane circuit 2 3
b. Joining a circuit 2 3
C. Departing a circuit 2 3
d. Lookout and separation from 2 3
other traffic

12. Approach and landing:

a Approach:

(1) With power 2 3
(2) Glide approach 2 3
b? Landing:
(1) Normal 2 3
(2) Cross wind 2 3
(3) Short/soft field 2 3
(4) Minimum ground roll 2 3
C. Missed approach and go? 2 3
Around

13. Engine failures (simulated):

a. During takeoff 2 3
b. In the circuit 2 3
c. During cruise, high and low 2 3
level
d. Checks and procedures 2 3

14. Precautionary search and landing 2 3

15. Pre?first circuit requirements:

A student shall not make his first solo circuit unless he has passed a written examination on Flight Rules and Procedures. The examination will cover the subjects detailed in Section 3.04 of this Manual.

16. Pre?pilot certificate flight test requirements:

A student shall not be flight tested for an ASRA Pilot Certificate until he has passed a written examination on Gyroplane Basic Aeronautical Knowledge. The examination will cover the subjects detailed in Section 3.04 of this Manual.

Before Applicant for
17.Flight Planning: solo cross
navigation country
flight endorsement
Preparation for flight: Pilot, aircraft, & 2 3
equipment
Interpretation and use of weather 1 3
charts and forecasts
Interpretation and use of aeronautical 2 3
publications, documents and charts
Basic navigation computer skills 2 3
Flight Notification 1 3
Gyroplane weight and balance
Management 2 3
Flight plan use including:
Cruise level selection 2 3

Track. distance, heading, groundspeed 2 3
and time interval calculations
Fuel management including fuel 2 3
reserve calculations

18. Navigation:
Map reading 2 3
Compass use and errors 2 3
Medium and low level navigation 2 3
Flight log management 2 3
Diversion procedure 2 3
Lost procedure 2 3

Air traffic procedures outside controlled airspace 2 3

[Dean_Dolph]

Tim, I found a couple of things interesting in your post. I also recognize it took a lot of typing so I appreciate the effort!

Dean, the following is the flight training syllabus that we use in Australia. It may partly answer your question. ……….

You say this is the training syllabus used in Australia. Does this mean that every instructor in Australia uses this syllabus? I know little or nothing about aviation regulations in other countries. If this is fact then does this mean that some regulatory agency requires its use?

The U.S. Light Sport Aircraft sub-committee on gyro stability has been cited as the largest part of the equation in making gyro flying safer. Improved training being the other part.

…………Until we had a common syllabus, we found that instructors were teaching in all sorts of order and some were not teaching some parts at all.

Yeah, it appears to be the same here!

I've talked to a number of instructors and it is obvious that the character traits required to be an instructor, are also ones that make it difficult for some to accept that their methods could be improved or to accept a common syllabus. Their collective independent streak would make one think they were all from Texas!

There has been some interest/effort to develop a standardized training system here in the U.S. However, without some authority forcing it to happen, it appears that will be difficult to do. There are a couple of instructors that visit this forum who have given their time and input to this effort. As a potential student I appreciate that.

One of the biggest hang-ups in developing the U.S. syllabus has been a section on gyro theory. This seems to be an area where even some of the instructors are not clear about. But at the same time most try to pass some of it on and agree that it is important for the student to understand what is taking place with the machine. I notice in the syllabus you have posted that there doesn't appear to be any reference to theory. Does that mean the Australian syllabus doesn't include any theory or that you just got tired of typing?!!

There is a wide disparity in thoughts on what and how much theory should be included. The fact that there is an on going controversy among our 'experts' on gyro stability testing indicates there is still a lot to be agreed on. I would hope that eventually someone is able to propose a basic theory section that everyone agrees is fact. One that has only what the pilot needs to know.

16. Pre?pilot certificate flight test requirements:

A student shall not be flight tested for an ASRA Pilot Certificate until he has passed a written examination on Gyroplane Basic Aeronautical Knowledge. The examination will cover the subjects detailed in Section 3.04 of this Manual.

This section mentions 'this Manual'. Is there more to the manual than you had the energy and time to post here? If so, would it be possible for me to get one of these manuals?

Thanks!

[Dean_Dolph]

Hey, Paul, now that you have made your 'Trip' and reported on it, do you have time to provide the info you said you would 'soon'?

[Aussie_Paul]

Dean, the ASRA operations manual can be viewed at www.asra.org.au
under documents. The appendices 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, are the gazetted regulations for single seat gyroplanes, 2 seat gyroplanes, and gyrogliders. The ASRA ops manual works in conjuntion with those regulations.

Aussie Paul. :)

[Dean_Dolph]

Thanks, Paul! I appreciate the response and the work by all of you that participated in creating what I see on the ASRA web site. I have first hand knowledge of the amount of effort and coordination it takes to produce this type of product. I haven't had time to go through it but what I've seen is impressive.

I still would like for all the instructors to tell me how they gage competence. I suspect that there are students that, for whatever reason, you guys feel better about turning loose to solo than others. If so, have you ever thought through why that is the case?

On a separate but related issue, there have been obvious examples of students either not reaching an appropriate competency level or not receiving enough transitional training/guidance and I would think that this would be the biggest concern and the most important part of the training process. It concerns me that this doesn't receive the emphasis that it deserves. In interviewing several instructors, transition training wasn't mentioned unless I asked how they handle it. I may be wrong but I always felt that if I hadn't raised the issue that it wouldn't have been brought up.

[Hognose]

Dean and all,

The Rotorcraft/Gyroplane knowledge test takes "generic", that is, non- class-and-category-specific, questions from the usual areas in any Private knowledge test: weather, regulations, airspace, etc. and takes its gyroplane specific questions from the Rotorcraft Flying Handbook, which you can buy at the ERAU bookstore for $17, for $25 or $30 at Smilin' Jack's Pilot Shop, on eBay on CD for whatever some gormless knucklehead bids it up to, or simply download from the FAA.

http://av-info.faa.gov/data/traininghandbook/faa-h-8083-21.pdf

You can log into Gleim.com and see their databank of non-airplane questions and answers here. Like I said, you have to log in but it's free. Most of the folks working for Gleim are young fixed-wing CFIs so they are a little uncertain about some of the answers... which they are quite upfront about:

http://www.gleim.com/aviation/naqas/

cheers

-=K=-

[Dean_Dolph]

Kevin, I suspect that I have acquired just about all of the training material available from all sources while in the process of working with a training team. I need to check out the links you have provided to make sure although I had access to a Gleim CD.

The ASRA info that Paul provided is new to me. I've sensed, however, that may be the non-flying presentations to the student by our instructors isn't all that it should be or at the very least isn't emphasized. While study material is the basis of acquiring knowledge, I personally feel better when I have a knowledgeable person, such as an instructor, to interact with.

It appears to me that The ASRA is ahead of us in the U.S. in that they have pretty much created a standard training system and possibly even methods. I haven't looked that close at it yet.

The training team I was (maybe again one day) working with had pretty much accepted the idea that standardized training had value. The big and hard sell would be after the training system was finished and trying to get the instructors to buy in. The fact that the members of the training team (not me!) are all prominent gyro community leaders and instructors might have an influence.

I suspect that when the Sport Pilot/LSA ruling (with the gyro construction/stability standards defined) becomes fact, that training will be the next focus for the gyro people.

[Dean_Dolph]

Kevin, the first link as you have indicated is for the Rotorcraft Handbook which I acquired when it first came out. Having the link handy should help some of us.

The second link to Gleim was interesting in that I found they had gyro instructors listed for different states. The interesting part is that other than Dofin Fritts in Florida, Dustin Howell in Louisiana and Lisa DeVries in Virginia, (I don't think she is instructing in gyros now) I didn't recognize any of them, including the one in Texas! Anyone recognize these instructors?

[Heron]

Sensei
Whats the status of that sylabus?
thanks
Heron

[Dean_Dolph]

Heron, it is on hold for now. My priorities changed for a couple of reasons. One, I remarried, two, I'm getting older and want to build a gyro while I can. But, I'm not one of those guys who can build without any room to move around. I need lots and lots of space! Consequently, against the advice of a bunch of people, I'm contemplating building a new house with a BIG workshop! I'm still gathering info so I can see if I can afford it on my fixed income.

I got sucked into the training system project and then was abandoned by the leader and teammates (they had valid reasons) so ended up going on a recruiting trip, figuratively and literally, and was successful in finding five highly respected instructors to make up a new team. The team's energy level and enthusiasm has dropped a bunch. Hopefully we will get revived soon. While it wasn't my idea to get involved I do feel that standardized training is important to all of us and I'm committed to doing my part.

[Aussie_Paul]

The way I look at it Dean, is to make sure that the required syllabus is covered. In what order is sometimes dictated by conditions.

From the start, I like to go out for 40 or so mins doing air work (syllabus) and then come back and do a couple of circuits. As the student progresses the time spent with air work becomes less and the time spent conducting circuits becomes more, until they can handler a whole session doing circuits.

A circuit (pattern) to you guys is where it all happens. you have a take off and climb, and gentle climbing turn, a medium turn onto down wind. Then a little time for relaxation and some checks, then a medium turn onto base leg with a radio call, followed by a gentle descending turn onto finals then conducting a landing. If the landing is conducted engine idling then you have covered an emergency approach and landing as well.

The circuit is quite fatiguing, that is why I sneak up on the amount of circuits per lesson. The lessons can be a variety of time frame lengths, because students vary in age, ability, stress on the day etc.

We finish conducting strip runs (hops) in the 2 seater. This is exactly what they will be doing first, in their own gyroplane.

If they have their own single seat machine I inspect, test fly, adjust, and certify it for them. As they are becoming more efficient I will let them conduct some taxy practice without the blades, they don't need much of this because if I am not careful they start to get to quick. I then have them tie the machine to something solid on a windy day and have them practice rotor management. Sometimes I let them do this back at their airport, if they do not have their machine with them at that time. They come back and say that they learnt more about rotor management than during any of the dual training!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I am supervising them in their own machine I have a UHF CB radio that I can fit in their machine. In my car I have both UHF CB and VHF air band. I travel beside and behind so that they cannot see me and personally supervise this part of my training process. We can communicate on the CB and I keep a listening watch on the air band so that I can co ordinate the traffic.

The time to send them solo is a hard one to put into words. It does come from the experience that an instructor has. It will depend on the attitude, and maturity of the student, as well of course as to being able to fly the aircraft safely. I use the words "instructors gut feeling" loosely but it does play a role.

The cocky over confident younger students, have to have the standards set higher. I don't kick 'em down. I just set the bar higher and encourage them to meet what they think is normal standard, besides they do not know the standard!!!!!!!!

The under confident student is quite difficult, you don't necessarily lower the bar but offer more encouragement and praise.

When the student is comfortable balancing on the mains, and can hold the balancing at a number of speeds and power settings, I will ask the student if he thinks he is ready for a hop. I will know at that point that they are ready!!!! The expression on their face after they have flown for 30 yards @ 2' and landed is priceless. The important thing is that I can remember that excitement from my own first hop!!!!

If the student is comfortably doing hops, and can put the gyro anywhere over of beside the runway and bring it back for a nice landing we are getting close for a circuit.

If a student has to solo themselves due to the tyranny of distance, I tell them to get a long strip and when they can take off, climb to 200' and conduct 3 engine idling landings in a row, they are ready for a circuit. I follow the Ron McKenzie guidelines for this.

I hope that this has given you some idea as to how I handle the situation of teaching a student to obtain their gyro licence or certificate and then go on and learn for the rest of their lives.

Aussie Paul.
:D :D

[Heron]

Thanks both of you!
There is always a ramp up on each maneuver and I believe FW pilots need some extra training to "unlearn" some reflexes.
We could create an "esqueleton' or basic frame for a training grid and fill it up untill its done. Todd?
thanks
Heron

[Dean_Dolph]

Thanks, Paul! I'll add this to the rest of info I've compiled.