Question For RAF Owners

[Steve Osborne]

I was installing new tires yesterday and was thinking of making a few changes to my RAF. Was wondering if any of you.

Updated from the old style seat tank to new style if so, how do like it?

Cyclic hand grip, I am still using the original from 98 any nicer ones out there that you prefer?

Closing snap vents, will they seal properly on the RAF door?

Hand brake lever verse foot only?

Independent braking?

[StanFoster]

Steve-I had the nex style tank.I liked the fold forward seatback for storage and it gave you more leg room, and more seat to sit on. Stan

[dragonflyerthom]

Steve

Jim West has done that retrofit on the seat tank. He did an article on his RAF pilot site

http://rafpilots.com/

When I put the snap vents into my Doors I cut them just a little over and put a rubber seal around the hole then put my vents in. They have a tight seal now.

[Steve Osborne]

Thanks Stan, Thom.

Stan, does the SH have a hand brake?

Thom, what type of rubber seal did you use? I'm wondering how comfortable the new seat is verse the old?

[Aussie_Paul]

Thanks Stan, Thom.

Stan, does the SH have a hand brake?

Thom, what type of rubber seal did you use? I'm wondering how comfortable the new seat is verse the old?


Steve, FWIW, I found the new seat to be much, more uncomfortable than the old one. Far too upright. Ok for an hour BUT 3 and 4 hour cross countries nearly kill anyones back.

Aussie Paul. :)

[dragonflyerthom]

Steve

I cut a 1/8 inch hose to length and glue it with super glue.

[Steve Osborne]

Thanks Paul, I guess it would be well worth the $ to upgrade them.

Thom, something like auto vacuum hose?

[StanFoster]

Steve: The SparrowHawk has dual hand levers for the left and right brakes. The pilots side has a bar for your foot as well...and the brake handles have an interlocking collar to lock them together if you want..

As far as the seat.....I like the new style seat with the folding back...more than the other style. There isnt near as much depth to sit on..

I would consider putting in bucket seats like the SparrowHawk has. I added extra foam....tilted them back 5 degrees...and I can fly 3 hours and not be a bit sore.


Stan

[Steve Osborne]

Stan, I love to install bucket seats, but not sure how they would mount to the new style tank any suggestions? Would you by any chance have a part # for the SH brake lever assembly?

[StanFoster]

Steve: Its a whole bunch of parts....If you call Groen Bros....they should sell you all the parts. If not...see me and I will get them for you at cost.

There are several RAFs out there flying with some of my SparrowHawk parts.:yo:



Stan

[dragonflyerthom]

Yea Stan and Steve

I saw the brake lever of the SH and it is very basic and has a good finished appearance. Yes Steve the rubber Windshield hose can work if the wall isn't too thick.

[Steve Osborne]

Sweet, thanks again guys for all your help

[rgraffeo]

Steve,
I cut off the brake pedal on the passenger side & added a handle to the left side.
That way I can use my foot or right hand & the brake pedal does not get in the way of the passengers foot. It only cost about $3 for the square tubing. Later I want to see about putting a bend in the handle so I don't have to lean forward to apply the brake.

[paulp]

Howdy Steve,

One thing that you might want to look at is the stabilator. Man it is nice(and sure beats hell out of those trim wheels). I have the stabilator as well as an additional actuator for roll trim. Both are connected to a Ray Allen stick grip with a 4-way coolie hat switch and a trigger switch for the radio. Works great.:usa2:

[Steve Osborne]

Rudy, yea that passenger foot brake seems to always in the way. I like the idea of having a hand brake because sometimes with a passenger I will sit in the right seat. I will probably leave the foot part on the left side. I am right handed and lately have been practicing t/o & landings with my left hand. just in case I need to reach for those circuit breakers on the right side of the panel in an emergency.

Paul P, I just pulled there web page and it looks like a real nice grip. Does the stabilator actuator roll trim come with it or was that from Ray Allen?

Thanks again guys, to me this is what this forum is all about. good positive information.

[dragonflyerthom]

Hey Steve

I just ordered the Vertex VXA 300 PILOT III. Do you know anything about it. Is it a good transceiver ? Heck does anyone know this radio.

[Steve Osborne]

No sorry Thom I do not. I am using a dash mounted Valcom 760 TSO Transceiver with Sigtronics SAP-400 intercom system. I was in class D airspace one time when the valcom stopped working, I though.... so I picked up ICOM A23 hand held for back up. Just to find out later I had the right side head set on, they look alike and you can hear just fine but you can not transmit. It is wired this way so the tower can not hear a passenger if they talk the same time the pilot does..

[paulp]

Hey Steve,

The grip is from Ray Allen. I ordered one with the coolie hat switch and the right side is the plain grip with the radio trigger only. The actuator I ordered from Firgelli Automations. They have a very informative web page.

There was someone on this forum that was offering a stabilator kit for sale at a pretty decent price. I think the guy was in the UK. It might be worth looking into.:usa2:

[Aussie_Paul]

Thanks Paul, I guess it would be well worth the $ to upgrade them.

Thom, something like auto vacuum hose?

Steve, I said that the new seat is much more uncomfortable. Not only that, it also puts all the fuel lower down making the thrust line to CoM offset worse!!!!

Aussie Paul. :)

[rgraffeo]

Paul,
I have the old style seat tank. You prefer it to the newer style?
I heard several say the newer style was more comfortable.

[Aussie_Paul]

Paul,
I have the old style seat tank. You prefer it to the newer style?
I heard several say the newer style was more comfortable.

I dislike them both. I was hoping the new set tank that arrived with the last kit I sold would have been an improvement. The only good thing is that it gave a little luggage area, Comfort wise both the builder, myself and the new owner have had back problems sitting in it for more than an hour or so. I am sure the new owner now wishes he had flown in it for more than 10 mins when he bought it.

I did a 3 hour cross country with the new owner, who does have back problems, and after 1 hour 45 mins he was so uncomfortable I had to fly and find a strip to land to rest his back. Luckily I had flown that route many times and remembered a farmers strip.

I have told it like it is and if I am chastised again re my comments about a RAF, tough titties.:wave:

Aussie Paul. :)

[StanFoster]

Steve-We all have different forms to fit, and I need more seat depth. I dont know if your cabin is big enough for bucket seats , but if it is-they are very comfortable. I have taken up around 30 different passengers and most comment on their own how comfy they are. STAN

[dragonflyerthom]

Stan Do you know of anyone that offers a fuel tank that will fit in a RAF with a flat top like the SH where the bucket seat can be mounted on?

[StanFoster]

Thom-RAF's newer style tank like I had is flat on top, but I know I am too big to be raised any higher and thats what bucket seats would do. I found that some high density foam made the seats comfortable. I just cant sit on the smaller old style seat, but thats just me, ok? I could not be happier with what I have now for seats. I have reached my limits of comfort - any more and I would be nodding off -ha STAN

[dragonflyerthom]

Steve

Rons Seats are like mine, the old style. But I have been thinking of Tom Ms seats and how I could mount them. I really need the 12.5 to 15 gallon tho. The ones on his site are 7.5 gallons. That would be 10 gallons to little. I think they can be modified to my gyro and give a little storage also. What do you think. I tried to call him this morning but got the answering machine. It was 8:15 am tho.

[LARRYEBOYER]

Steve. The ideal setup and real snazzy was the Larry Martin exterior fuel tanks. You removed your old seat tank and replaced it with 2 racing car bucket seats. The 2- 10 gal exterior fiberglass tanks were sweet.Lots of interior room and comfort and safety.

[Aussie_Paul]

I will take some measurements of the 2 X seat tank set up I am using in Firebird. The alloy RHS that the seats are attched to clamp the the 2" wide keel. Possibly they would camp with 1" longer bolts to the Raf keel. That gives me 90 liters, 23.5 US gallons.

The seats lay back at whatever degrees the ergonomic experts say they should.

The Firebird set up is 6" wider than the RAF, BUT there is a 6" gap between the seats where I have the control cables and mixer.

Certainly worth considering. I have Hybrid in the hanger with the Firebirds so will have a look today if anyone is interested.

Aussie Paul. :)

[dragonflyerthom]

Paul

See if you can get some measurments for me. I am interested in removing my seat tank and putting something like that in mine. Thanks Also can you check the price in US dollars and what the shipping would be. Thanks in advance PB

[Timchick]

How about these seat tanks. 10+ gallons.

http://www.ulparts.com/detail.aspx?ID=248

[Gary_in_Orygun]

I got one of the first "new" seats back in 2000, when they were made of fiberglass.

http://home.att.net/~gary_air2/pictures/g_07_26_01_3.jpg
http://home.att.net/~gary_air2/pictures/g_07_26_01_2.jpg

You can see that I added some foam for a lumbar support, which helps me alot.

I had a similar problem that Paul mentioned when I took a 1 hr ride in Doffin's standard seat configuration. I could hardly walk for a couple days after that ride. When I went to take instruction with Ron Menzie I took a little pillow along to use as a lumbar support. Those original seats sit too straight-up for me.

I had some trouble with my tank leaking at the top seam, where the top was glued to the bottom. I also had trouble sitting straight up in my seat without my head hitting the ceiling (I am 6' 1.5", with a tall torso). I had to modify my seat by cutting some holes in the top and reglassing it with a lowered bucket. See
http://home.att.net/~gary_air2/gyro_log_10.htm

[reelmule]

Steve,
I have new seat tank as previous tank deformed in the temps we have in AZ and developed leak on passenger side on top where angle iron bolted in to hold throttle control. Also had minimal impingement on control tube through the center. RAF replaced at no cost.
Snap vents work very well in the doors ( which i rarely use. Hand brake is a "must have" in my opinion; I sawed off the copilot foot brake and mounted hand brake here. Make sure to retain the pilots foot brake. Independent brakeing is probably a bad idea-good for tight turns on narrow taxiway but other wise may cause BIG problems.
Just my 2 cents worth!!
Walt G.