Forum Moderation

[gyromike]

I suppose you've all read Todd's announcement and probably know what prompted it.

Todd emailed me about this and I was pretty much of the same mindset as him. Things had been getting ugly, and I was probably remiss for not putting a stop to it earlier. I didn't want to appear to be too heavy-handed, and I usually try to stay neutral. But things had clearly gotten out of hand and seemed to be getting worse. I apologize for not being more pro-active.

I will be more diligent about keeping things on an even keel from now on. We have a lot of people who are interested in gyros and the first thing they see, on the best gyro forum on the internet, is a bunch of squabbling. We have to be a little more cognizant of our behavior toward each other, and to the image we present to the public.

To echo what Todd posted:

Keep your personal squabbles private. Take it to email, or use a phone, or get together in a parking lot and duke it out. We don't want to hear it. We don't want to read it.

Posting private emails without the consent of the sender is forbidden. Whether you agree with what is written or not, it's private correspondence and needs to stay private.

If you have a legitimate gripe with a particular design or theory and want to discuss it, fine. That's what this forum is for. But think about what you have just written before hitting the 'Reply' button. Too often these technical discussions start getting personal and nothing but hard feelings result, with nothing being resolved. I would think that even a bunch of hard-headed individualists like us can disagree without being disagreeable.

We're all here to share our experiences and learn from each other.
But if I have to start thinning out objectionable posts and putting people in a non-posting status, I will.

[cgmg]

Mike,

Thanks for stepping in on this Ron E fiasco!

Regardless of all other issues related to his public postings, Ron E's posts including Dolfin's private email response, and Ron's dealings with Stan, should have been private issues, no question.

No further comment on the Dofin issue. He is who he is, and most everyone is aware of it, except someone who is new to the forum.

Regarding Stan's gyro sale, if this were kept private, I'm positive it would have worked out to a very agreeable conclusion. Stan would have learned a lesson regarding resale of gyro's, and Ron would have learned to take someone experienced with him to look at a gyro for purchase.

And we all would have been saved a ton of useless drivel and keyboard fisticuffs regarding both situations. But best of all, no newcomers would have been subjected to the endless bashing this forum seems to generate.

Again, thanks for calling a timeout.

[Harry_S.]

Hear...Hear, Mike and Todd.

A great move.

I haven't checked yet, but have those two threads been removed?!


Cheers :)

[Rick Whittridge]

Todd, Mike, I applaude your efforts on cleaning up the Forum. This should have been done long ago. I see one more problem poster that should be adressed. When I see posts that call the forum stupid it just seems like a game to me for this poster. I`m sick of the Beauty Shop BS, Soap Opera, Childish conduct that comes from this poster. If you all want this forum to attract people to our world of Gyros do it in a positve way. I posted my feelings on another thread started by this poster but he must have removed it before all could read.

[GyroRon]

Are you talking about me Rick?

[Harry_S.]

I don't think so Ron...Altho :D


Mike...thru private messages, I know there are a couple other posters that are highly irritating and combative at times...maybe I'm one of 'em :noidea: but, maybe if you received a number of complaints about a particular poster, he or she could be given a get cool notice or, be canned outright. ;)


Cheers :)

[gyromike]

Harry,

I hope I don't have to do that. I think we can police ourselves fairly well if we just think a little before posting.

A lot of times I'll type up something in Word and save it to my hard drive, then come back to it a little later to review it before posting. Mainly for error checks, but also to see if it can be worded more diplomatically.

[Aussie_Paul]

Good thing Mike and Todd. A good move in the right direction. Actually Humans do like rules and to know where the line in the sand is drawn. :ohwell:

Aussie Paul. :)

[dragonflyerthom]

If we don't watch out the forum will be having threads like" What ever happened to""""????

[GyroRon]

I don't think so Ron...Altho :D


Mike...thru private messages, I know there are a couple other posters that are highly irritating and combative at times...maybe I'm one of 'em :noidea: but, maybe if you received a number of complaints about a particular poster, he or she could be given a get cool notice or, be canned outright. ;)


Cheers :)


I don't know Harry, I will wait and see what Rick says.

[Brian Jackson]

I had followed the definitive thread(s) with interest, placing myself on both sides and believe that neither party were “duking it out.” Quite the contrary per my latest reading thereof. Both were rather civil and appeared to learn from it. Less level-headedness amongst either may have resulted in yet another unnecessary pilot casualty. From my chair all worked out well, and the new owner has a ship more carefully inspected than probably would have otherwise. The seller benefited as well by understanding the consequences of passing along “assumed” knowledge.

The public posting of private correspondence, though, was tacky. There is a plethora of methods here on our own forum to speak with others without the need to “announce and frame the skid-marks in others’ underwear.” Though (partially) in the buyer’s defense, he’s a Forum newbie and may not be aware of etiquette. Nonetheless, most cultures have similar values based on inherent moral principals, and the Net’s melting pot is no different. I mean no disrespect to the “unsatisfied buyer” when I say this, but the airing of private conversations skates a thin line. It does raise an interesting question though about tape recording private phone calls for public listening… Hmm.

Either way, Thank you Mike & Todd. I’m very proud to be a member of this great forum, and believe you made the right move when needed. As I’ve noted before, we’re all a bunch of pocket-protector nerds with melon-size balls… why else would we fly these things? But more importantly I think: we’re a brotherhood of sorts. We all have egos that can afford to be taken up or down a notch or two but, like siblings, we learn and get over it… then we go outside and play!

Thanks,
Brian

[dragonflyerthom]

Yea Brian

I like to go outside and play. Siblings do fight but when it's over they play with their sibling like nothing happen. And don't say anything bad about the other. They will protect their sibling. Our brotherhood has one very strong binding force. It is the air we breath, smell and fly in. It is the invisible force that we all love. The outdoors is definately where it is at.

[kc0iv]

As a outsider looking in may I ask a question and make a comment.

I do believe the sales deal should have been kept private. The he said/she said had not business being made public. Along with all the comments that followed.

Now as the the private e-mail in regards to instruction I can see it a little different. If an instructor has has gone on record which appears to go against what is considered acceptable I see nothing wrong with someone showing what he has said. How can a newbee know not to use this instructor if no one will speak-up? I know when I got my F/W I got burned by an instructor that shouldn't have been an instructor. In fact had I not taken control I would have burned a whole in the ground due to iceing. He said it would be OK even after I question he about the chance of getting into bad weather.

It is one thing where there are thousands of instructors but I have learned there isn't very many in the gyro world.

I have found the comments on such topics as CLT vs HLT a good lesson. It gave me the knowledge of what to look for.

That's my 1/2 cent.

Leon
kc0iv

[John Stahl]

Heads up we got a spammer in our midst.
Freetramml has all the ear marks of one. No real name and a commercial as a first post. Pull his plug fast!!!

[gyromike]

I got him, John. :)

[Cobra Doc]

A driver has a car wreck and everyone sends condolences.

A pilot crashes an airplane and everyone sends flowers.

A biker goes down and we have benefit rides, usually $25 per bike. (Maybe it's just an excuse to ride?)

A gyro goes down and it's an instant world wide gathering of vultures to pick apart the bones.

[Harry_S.]

A gyro goes down and it's an instant world wide gathering of vultures to pick apart the bones. I'm not so sure I want to fly a gyro anymore. I'll stay with the bikes where I have true friends.



I can well understand your feelings in that regard, Coby.

Sometimes, I think along the same lines. Maybe, I should give it up...the fiascos on the forum, that is, not the flying. :rolleyes:


Cheers :)

[j bird]

:director:
Come on Cody, if your "hawgs" engineering was " f--kt up and people were dying because the bike went into a high speed wobble and killed you, and you knew the design was flawed, would you keep your mouth shut, I think not.

[Cobra Doc]

Jay, I hear that at 150mph it does have a high speed wobble. I'll never know!

[Heron]

I have not been to other Foruns, only gyros.
I am gratefull for all information posted here, we say condolences to the family and go back to our business: why, where, how, when, what and so on . . .
I see no vultures here, only people with different levels of sensitivity and inteligence, but over all I see a lot of good hearts.
By monitoring and interfering on people´s behavior, we are going to have a uniform code of conduct and in time we all look alike, like in the Army.
That is when I will move away . . .no interest in pre fabricated behavior.
Just be yourself and participate, no threats of leaving or if you don´t do this I will do that . . .be like NIKE . . .just do it! Or not . . .
thanks vultures, eagles, hawks, and all the way down to humming birds (size)
Heron

[cruizer]

We learn when things go right. We learn when things go wrong. I didn't like the way things "went down" on the forum regarding the sale but, I know there was alot learned especially for me being a newbie to gyros and the forum. Healing has begun and we're wiser for it. Most times the lesson we learn the hard way stays with us the best.

[Brian Jackson]

Yea Brian

I like to go outside and play. Siblings do fight but when it's over they play with their sibling like nothing happen. And don't say anything bad about the other. They will protect their sibling. Our brotherhood has one very strong binding force. It is the air we breath, smell and fly in. It is the invisible force that we all love. The outdoors is definately where it is at.

Amen, Thom!

One thing you hit on that I neglected to interject is that (to extend the analogy) siblings, in the face of danger, tend to look out for and protect one another. Good point! Usually the older has been around the block and has information the youngsters don't. Ultimately it's up to the youngsters to decide for themselves if the elder has credibility, or if he was just going around the proverbial corner to score some crack.

I am a certified skeptic, but tend to have a nasty habit that borders on "hero worship" when people prove ideas that go against the popular grain (as opposed to "Poplar" grain :wacko: ) Sorry. Bad pun. But there are a few people here, including you, that I take note of in any discussion. I always end up learning something valuable, and feel better for it.

Respectfully,
Brian Jackson

[spoke]

I got him, John. :)

gyromike..i got a private message this am , gyro training , over this message it said....do not reply to this e mail ??? spoke

[gyromike]

Forward it to me please.

[Lspav8r]

A driver has a car wreck and everyone sends condolences.

A pilot crashes an airplane and everyone sends flowers.

A biker goes down and we have benefit rides, usually $25 per bike. (Maybe it's just an excuse to ride?)

A gyro goes down and it's an instant world wide gathering of vultures to pick apart the bones.

Well said.

[RICK MARTIN]

Todd, Mike or Ron,

Please delete my thread under "Wanted" about needing 582 exhaust parts. Or better yet, edit the title for me to read 503 exhaust parts.

Sorry for the trouble. If I could figure out how to fix it myself, I would.

Thanks,

ps. Thanks for all you do for us here.

- Rick

[RICK MARTIN]

A big thanks to which ever one of you guys fixed my mistake.

[gyromike]

No problem Rick.

[MAK]

I am trying to post something under the Xenon topic but twice my posts said it will be moderated and then disappear. Am I wasting my time to post again??

[HobbyCAD]

I see Albert's name now comes up as banned. Which post attracted this action, or is it a stupid trick of his to edit his profile showing banned?

[GyroRon]

Nope, he is gone. No tricks

[pancho]

Thank you. I've no objection foreign competition , nor any animosity toward any Eastern country. But that guy was for all appearances no more than an antagonist. I sure won't miss him.

[MrGrey]

Nope, he is gone. No tricks

Thank you.

[Mike484]

Not defending 1946 at all but what decides who gets banned. What I saw from him were poss that was letting us know what is going on else where. Then he would be attacked by others and antagonized into a "war of words". Then when he strikes back at the ones that attacked him he is the one that gets banned. What happens to the ones that were the actual cause of the problem?

I know some of the history behind 1946 and I'm not defending him nor saying he was unjustly banned, I'm just wondering why some people get away with starting trash talk and make personal attacks and get away with it while others will get banned. Looking back at the thread that got him banned I see more than one person that is guilty of what he got banned for.

[mark treidel]

Mike,
Aparently what you didn't see from him was the final straw statement about the poor guy who crashed his gyro near Perth and suffered severe injuries. If it wasn't for low class, this fellow would have none!! All I can say is that the action from the administrator in this case was long overdue - in my opinion.

[Mike484]

Sorry Mark, I didn't see that, I actually quit going to that thread when it got completely out of hand. Your right, there is absolutely no room for those type of statements, if you have no compassion for your fellow gyronaughts then you have no business being part of our group.

[mark treidel]

No Apology necessary Mike,
I agree with you 100%.

[MH1FLYER]

Nope, he is gone. No tricks

Ron

Thats a good start. Don't stop there??????????????

John

[Jens]

To me it look like he got banned mainly due to others peoples reactions = he got banned mainly due to other peoples posts!?

[EI-GYRO]

No, He got banned for an asinine unsympathetic pig-ignorant remark concerning
the injuries incurred by a gyro pilot in OZ.

Prior to that, he was mostly a TROLL.

TROLLS put out provocative material to evince a negative reaction from others,
and then whine about that reaction and its consequences, and revel in the
subsequent squabbles between erstwhile friends which they provoke, and the
defence of their drivel by those who are so open-minded their brains fell out.

Well done, Ron.

[brett s]

Exactly, he was a textbook troll - thanks Ron.

[GyroRon]

I didn't ban him.... I can't ban anyone. Todd banned him. I think it was because of what he said in the gyro crash thread, but ultimately it was also a issue of his posts created alot of negative reaction.

[LGoodhind]

>nor any animosity toward any Eastern country

What made you think he had any relationship to China other than his own comments? Heron chatting with him on Skype? Seriously- those of you accepting "Albert's" narrative may want to consider recalibrating your mental model of online forums ... these fellows are figuratively and often literally the same guy.

Total troll- no interest in anything other than standing on his dust speck yelling "I am here- I am here- I am heeeerrrrre." He'll fire up another sock puppet if he hasn't already- just watch for similar race/culture baiting comments out of low mileage posters that nobody has ever spoken with. Dancing on graves is par for their course. The goal is to destroy/disrupt any sort of real community they encounter and typically they god-complex themselves into thinking they are doing you a favor.

To figure out who Albert is all you need to do is follow the chain back to when he appeared and figure out who was shunned a few weeks before for similar behavior. Turtles all the way down.

[Heron]

Renee Peter Holz is a character, not easy to understand but interesting.
I can´t figure out what he really wants, it is a lot of time invested and very little profit if any is desired.
No bad feelings towards him, it was my choice to wait untill to late for me.
But, there are rules and patience to keep up with , , ,
Heron

[Resasi]

Jens had you just been the victim of an unfortunate accident and quite badly injured, his post might not have seemed quite so innocuous.

[cbonnerup]

Every good, diligent troll returns;
he'll be back I'm afraid.

I guess I'm happy I missed the 'post'

Chris

[Monarchist]

In my opinion, the moderator showed extraordinary restraint in allowing his posts to continue as long as they did. I won't miss seeing his posts.

-John

[Mike484]

In my opinion, the moderator showed extraordinary restraint in allowing his posts to continue as long as they did. I won't miss seeing his posts.

-John

I beleive the moderators did well by allowing it until the post that did "break the camels back". In the US we do have freedom of speach and also the freedom to ignor. Just because someone does not like another persons posts does not mean they should be banned, you choose yourself whether to read them or not. 1946 did get what he deserved when he deserved it but most of his other posts where no worse than a lot of others.

[gyromike]

I came close to banning him several times but kept deciding to cut him just a little more slack.
But I think he needed to be banned after his last remark.

Todd beat me to it. :)

[Jens]

.... ultimately it was also a issue of his posts created alot of negative reaction.
But that is blaming Albert for other peoples posts!?
We don't need too many posts from antagonism and on down. And the too nasty posts should be deleted.
Banned should only be posters on chronic covert hostility - somewhat similar to what others call trolls.

Unfortunately it is not so easy to agree on who is a troll and who is not.

http://www.newerapub.com/tonescale/04/tsp04web.jpg

[EI-GYRO]

Jens, I am assuming you didn't read the last posting which got him banned
If you had, you wouldn't be defending him.

Todd made a decision. It is Todd's forum. Not yours, not mine.

Please show some respect for the forum host, and park it.

[Arnie Madsen]

"Renee Peter Holz" is a character, not easy to understand but interesting.
Heron

If he used his intelligence , and his real identity , his freedom of speech and freedom of opinion would survive quite nicely.

If he was a true salesman , or a trusted aviation company representative who operated with integrity , he could earn a handsome income , especially in emerging China.

For his own reasons he chooses not to . That is the game he plays.

Getting banned has nothing to do with any of us ...... or any of the moderators of this forum ..... or our tremendous respect for freedom of speech and freedom of opinion.

None whatsoever.

[Sita]

[QUOTE=Jens;454785]But that is blaming Albert for other peoples posts!?
.................................................. .........



You seem to use "woman's logic",very confusing for "hombres" :Cry:

"I say yes, when I mean no"
"I want you to stay, when I say go"
"everything yours is mine and everything mine is mine but yours when I don't want it to be mine"

Cita

[willisbr]

I came close to banning him several times but kept deciding to cut him just a little more slack.
But I think he needed to be banned after his last remark.

Todd beat me to it. :)

Good moderation work. Gyromike didn't ban him. Albert banned himself. Push and push and push until a unanimous ban hammer came down. Well done. In the end, a ban comes through without question or debate. That's the way to do it. Kudos.

[Monarchist]

@Mike484: With respect, we do have freedom of speech in the US. But this board is not the US, it is a privately controlled forum of (mostly) like-minded rotorcraft enthusiasts who have the option of putting up with or not putting up with anyone that is intentionally antagonistic or abusive, as defined by the moderators. As Rush Limbaugh might say, this is not a democracy, it is a benevolent dictatorship. :-)

-John

[Mike484]

My statement is that many people post things that they shouldn't, adults can decide what to read and not to read rather than want to punish someone because they posted something you didn't want to read. If your tired of reading someones posts then why do you continue to do it? Besides, it's a mute point now.

[Monarchist]

Mike, I think everyone who is a forum member has the right to post anything they want, and subsequently the moderators have the right to ban anyone they want. It's their forum. Fortunately, they are very even-handed in their moderation, and it is a very rare occasion when they whip out the Ban Hammer.

And you and I agree that we don't have to be in lock-step agreement with everything we read. But some are here to share information and flying stories, and some people seemingly exist only to antagonize and pick fights. Albert was most definitely in the latter category.

I've got very thick skin and can take any of that. But I really shouldn't have to, nor should anyone else. I come here to learn from and be entertained by the interesting and knowledgeable characters that comprise this sport. Not to watch one member troll around and at every turn piss in everyone's Cheerios just to get a rise out of the readers.

-John

[Arnie Madsen]

Good moderation work. Gyromike didn't ban him. Albert banned himself.

You said it best Brian.

[Heron]

There is the kettle, the water and the fire!
What is the water doing in the kettle?
Look at you, still boiling and creating what you don´t want to see!
That bit about deleting posts is right on the money, get them while still in the nest . . .
and . . .please lets treat a member for what and who he/she is.
Man is gone, so should we . . .to other subjects!
Heron (always at the edge)
Renee is mad at me, called me a traitor . . .I just did not want to be an accomplice . . .

[Lee Scatt]

[QUOTE=Jens;454785]But that is blaming Albert for other peoples posts!?
.................................................. .........



You seem to use "woman's logic",very confusing for "hombres" :Cry:

"Cita

Don't go there...

[Jens]

..Please show some respect for the forum host, and park it.
Todd is running a forum. A forums 'fuel' is receiving different viewpoints and opinions giving in a tone above antagonism. Posting such posts is the best respect you can show a forum host. So I believe Todd and a lot of other readers here are happy with my posts in this thread :D

Writing antagonistic or even more nasty posts is to show disrespect for the forum host.
The writer is always the sole and only cause of the antagonistic post - not Albert or any other.

[Sita]

[QUOTE=Jens;455016]
.................................................. ......So I believe Todd and a lot of other readers here are happy with my posts in this thread :D

QUOTE]



If you say so yourself...........

Cita

[Mike Hook]

Time to put this to bed guys

[Sita]

Time to put this to bed guys

I agree:drum:

Cita

[vickijohnk]

I don't know if this is the correct place but I can no longer click on thumbnails to enlarge them. Is it my rig? John K.

[gyromike]

Check your pop-up blocker settings on your computer.