Rotors damaged, bystandard almost killed

[RazorBlake]

Here's a situation we all need to be aware of. I've been around flying rotors for many years and understand the danger of a moving rotor. Even a slow moving rotor can kill you if struck in the head. Today I finished a flight and had a man stop by to see my machine. He stated he had been around helicopters and airplanes for years. I asked him to be carefull because the rotors were still spinning. He stepped up to the machine next to the cockpit. We talked for several minutes, then I asked him to stay put while I manually slow the rotor and tie them down. He was standing next to the gyro, by the throttles which is a safe spot. After I reached up and began to slow the rotors, he decided to get out of the way by walking away from the gyro to the rear. Off course my blades were lower in the rear and before I could stop him the rotor struck the man in his back. He is doing fine now, but his back will be sore for days and could have cracked ribs. I'm certainly glad that he will not have permanent damage to himself, but my rotor blade is crumpled near the root.

Can anyone tell me what damage is created by this sudden stoppage to my rotor blade. I do have some some ripples near the root of the blade. Can the blade be repaired or will they need to be replaced?

[StanFoster]

Blake: First of all...thank God he wasnt hurt worse.

I never let anyone come within a rotor diameter while they are still spinning. People just sometimes act like a steer clubbed in the head.

I had a guy continually walk toward my RAF while the engine was running. The rotor was stopped. He was mesmerized by the prop and would not stop even with my arm waving. Of course I shut engine off. You just cant be too careful.

Just the other day I had to jump my battery on my SparrowHawk. My friend suggested he would take my jumpers off after it started. I said..."No you are not" Then I commented to him about how much damage his body would do to my new Ivoprop.


Stan

[Aussie_Paul]

Stan said..."No you are not" Then I commented to him about how much damage his body would do to my new Ivoprop.

I am glad you have your priorities right Stan!!!

Aussie Paul. :)

[barnstorm2]

This is a constant worry of mine.

Our craft are so uniqe people just want to walk right up.

I often have to ask, even other pilots, to remain clear of the gyro even if the blades are spinning slowly.

I put this information on my passinger check list. I find passingers so amazed by their first gyro flight they want to walk right out of the gyro while the blades are still spining.

I try to take a queue from the safty guys at Mentone and spin my blades down away from people, on the taxiway even if possible before taxiing into the tie-down or common places where there might be people.


Blake, I know your blades are pricey but I would replace them or at least the damaged one and send the good one back to SportCopter for matching to a new one.

I would also send my rotorhead in for inspection. IMHO.

Sorry to hear about your incident.

[Racer]

Past experiance I had owning a Towing Company, People get tunnel vision when something gets there attn. When I would Load a car People would always walk out into the road to watch, Even on the interstate. I had to constantly tell them to get out of the road, These cars are doing 70mph+ and they will hit you. So all gyro pilots, Realize that you have to be extra careful and think for other people cause past experiance has proven they will not think for themselves.

[dragonflyerthom]

Sorry for your incidence. Bad timing and luck. All very good advice. Tunnel vision is about what they have. What gets me is he exited to the back of the gyro the lowest point . Was he trying to ge hurt?

[Phil_Ruffin]

Depending on how fast the blade was turning and if it stopped dead in it's tracks, I would also check the cheek plates and the mast for any twisting.

[GyroRon]

That guy just cost you 2000$ plus shipping. I would send him the bill since you asked him several times to stay put.

[animal]

hate to say it, but be expecting a law suit, I am sure that is on the way.

[13brv3]

Holy Crap Blake! I saw you flying when I got to the airport, and even went looking for you later. I had no idea any of this happened. Sure sorry to hear about the blades, and the not so intelligent bystander. Hopefully, nothing more will come of it.

I'll be at the airport tomorrow if you need anything.

Rusty

[bones]

i dont know the more i hear about these blades you guys fly on overthere the more worried i become, if they are wrecked after that, they should all be put out of service, crap if they didnt even cut him in half and they are bent that dont sound good to me,,,seriously,,,,,,,, hmmmmm any way

[Ga6riel]

very concerning
hope you come out of it ok

[Jazzenjohn]

It seems to me anyone that survives a rotor strike that was hard enough to damage the blades is unbelieveably lucky. How about posting some pictures of the blades?

[Ron Iaconis]

Here's a situation we all need to be aware of. I've been around flying rotors for many years and understand the danger of a moving rotor. Even a slow moving rotor can kill you if struck in the head. Today I finished a flight and had a man stop by to see my machine. He stated he had been around helicopters and airplanes for years. I asked him to be carefull because the rotors were still spinning. He stepped up to the machine next to the cockpit. We talked for several minutes, then I asked him to stay put while I manually slow the rotor and tie them down. He was standing next to the gyro, by the throttles which is a safe spot. After I reached up and began to slow the rotors, he decided to get out of the way by walking away from the gyro to the rear. Off course my blades were lower in the rear and before I could stop him the rotor struck the man in his back. He is doing fine now, but his back will be sore for days and could have cracked ribs. I'm certainly glad that he will not have permanent damage to himself, but my rotor blade is crumpled near the root.

Can anyone tell me what damage is created by this sudden stoppage to my rotor blade. I do have some some ripples near the root of the blade. Can the blade be repaired or will they need to be replaced?

Please tell us what kind of Blades you wrinkled at the root.
Yes,,,,Please post a digital photo,,,,,( more than one pic is better)
I have rebuilt over 15 sets of Bensen Blades back in the 80's and test flew every one I rebuilt,,,,I have a set right now that have been brought back from the damaged realm.........

[Master Roda]

Hey Blake,

If you have 8x25 Sport Rotors I can match your set. I happen to have a spare.

What was the estimated RPM when the retard stopped them?

You can PM me or e-mail me with your info.

Jon

[Master Roda]

Just got your order Blake.

I have a set thats almost ready to ship, so your lead time should be shortened a bit. (maybe 4 weeks)

Jon

[RazorBlake]

Sorry I haven't been on the forum much and wanted to post pictures of the damaged blades. Let me know what you think about repairing this blade.

Blake

[GyroRon]

garbage.... sorry to say but that can't be fixed and still be airworthy.

[scottessex]

I agree! Toast.

[Timchick]

Ouch. That's worse than I thought it would be.

[brett s]

Definitely toast.

[gyro]

Make the backwacker guy buy you a new set. they are not worth repairing!

[dragonflyerthom]

Heck Those look like they were burned. What happened to the paint?

[Screw]

Screw-In

Hanger decoration. That's all they are good for now.:violin:

Screw-Out

[Master Roda]

There is no way a human stopped those blades with his back and did that kind of damage. At least not without serious injury, or death.

I build the damn things and I know what it takes to do that.

Was this guy wearing armor?

No doubt they were stopped suddenly.

EDIT:

I can see where it's possible. If the blades were flapping while they were spinning down it would put an additional strain on the system. BUT sheesh that had to hurt!

[RayPierce]

There is no way a human stopped those blades with his back and did that kind of damage. At least not without serious injury, or death.

I was thinking the same thing.

But I did see it done once......in a Monty Python skit.

Arthur: Now stand aside, worthy adversary.
Black Knight: 'Tis but a scratch.
Arthur: A SCRATCH? Your arm's off!
Black Knight: No it isn't!
Arthur: Well what's that then? (pointing to the arm lying on the ground)
Black Knight: I've had worse.
Arthur: You LIAR!
Black Knight: Come on, you pansy!

[MrGrey]

May i ask if the blades were spinning down and it you talked for a few min. to him i dont understand how the blades still had enough intertia to hit him and cause that damage. how did the damage occur there and not on the leading edge? Seems pretty close to the rotor head too. Hmm. Seems like Master Roda might have come on something in his post with possible blade flap. Kinda looks like symptoms of it. But i am no expert but I hope the guy is ok. and that we all learn something from this.
I was flying one day and apparently came too close to the hangars at the airport and some other guy was anything but happy. He was trying to flex his muscle and impress his friends that he is some kinda big shot and came running at me with blades spinning. I yelled as loud as I could with other than nice words to stop and he did. He had egg on his face now and was ticked off at me and after the blades stopped he gave me real talking too. I blew him off because I did nothing wrong in my eyes. My only mistake was to taxi towards the hangars with blades spinning for fast taxi. I always stop my blades now on the taxi way away from any chance meeting with people.

[scottessex]

Usually the leading edge is a solid extrusion, and when stopped suddenly, it flexes to the rear and compresses the trailing edge, causing it to stretch and buckle, after the hit the leading edge may still be straight, but the trailing edge is all bungled.

[RazorBlake]

To answer your questions, I had just landed the gyro from a very short flight. It was very cold that morning and I decided to stay in the pattern for some short patterns. There was a guy inspecting the approach light system(PAPI) and watched me make several approaches. After I landed, I taxied to my hangar and shut down. The gyro was faced into the wind. About 5 minutes later the guy inspecting the lights drove up and began asking me about the gyro. The blades had slowed, but the wind was keeping them spinnning at a very low RPM, but enough that I was worried for the safety of the by-stander. That's when I reached up to slow the blades, the blade strike happened at this point. Maybe 15-25 RPM, its hard to say, but when the blade struck the by-stander it stopped immediately and there was absolutley no damage to the leading edge at the point of impact. I didn't notice the crumpling of the trailing edge until I started to tie down the blade using my blade cuff. The damage seem bazar to me also. Some have indicated that they don't believe my story, but I don't have any reason to make it up, and I would never do that anyway. It just happened and I can't explain the damage. I do know that my new blades will be coming soon and I'm ready to get airborne again. I NOW HAVE MY ROTORBRAKE INSTALLED!!! I intend to keep my blades braked unless I'm on a runway or taxiway. This won't happen to me again.

[ahancock]

Is that blade really toast if the leading edge is straight? There would be minimal lift from that area of the blade because it is so close to the hub.

[Master Roda]

Is that blade really toast if the leading edge is straight? There would be minimal lift from that area of the blade because it is so close to the hub.

Are you kidding???

Of course it's toast. Would you drive your car on flat tires?

Remember guys.... it's your life your flying on.

Fly only the best equipment you can find.

Jon

P.S. Be safe dammit!!!

[gyro]

For those of you who think this was some sort of blade flap cover up by a cooked up story...I suggest you look at the #5 pic real close!

just the minute folds on the trailing edge prove that the rotor stuck and object and the fact that the leading edge is not damaged lets you know that it struck something soft.

Inertia is what caused the blade to crumple near the hub (stick a piece of all steel or aluminum rod in a vise and push on the end and see where it bends).
I would tell you to use a piece of flat stock (blade simulation) but I doubt you can bend it with out a cheater bar.

Most of you guys know that even when your blades are turning at 5rpm they take some doings to get stop by hand. And if the stop instantly then somthing has to give such as the mast twisting,Cheak plates,rotor towers, and yes BLADES Do Not Underestimate The Power of Inertia!! or suffer your fellow rotorheads fate you will:p

[Master Roda]

It's not as simple as that.

Try a different demonstration where you dont have a vise. Instead you have a teeter point like the one on your machine. Then do the same simulation. You will find that the blade on the other side carries that INERTIA and transfers it to the blade being stopped.Yes, the mast suffers a little because it is the leverage point, but it does'nt absorb all of it. Instead, whatever is trying to stop the rotor is damaged considerably more.

Jon

[gyro]

I agree Jon, the other rotor transfers it's inertia as well, which contributes to even more damage to the impacting rotor. I also agree that the guy must have had some seriously thick clothing on or like you said "wearing armor" he is very lucky to not have broken bone!

I am only making this analysis from the photo, I do a lot of engineering and experiment with metals all the time and there is a pattern to what happened to metal when fatigue or stressed.

a lot of folks draw conclusions without really understanding the forces at work.

I want to make this statement before someone gets the wrong idea...I am in no way attacking anyone or the quality of your blades from what I see they look good I just what folks to understand that unseen forces such as inertia, can do some strange things.

For example: I was building an electric bb gun using two RC racing motors, basically it worked like the ball thrower at them batting cages. I had two motors spinning at 50k rpm and fitted to the shaft was a 2" aluminum disk containing a 1/4" thick rubber seal. This seal was so tight that it took two of us to stretch it on; it was also bonded with special rubber glue. well as we proceeded to power up the motor I could not believe my eyes this seal broke loose from the glue joint and turned itself into a 4" fly rubber ring, that’s right the rubber seal grew nearly twice its size and came off the disk......well back to the drawing board. If it had worked I would have been able to sling bbs at nearly 500fps using all electric.

[gyroplanes]

Years ago, at the PRA convention, a guy with a VW gyro had the entire prop (2 bld wood) and hub come off. Unfortunately, they went right up and into the rotor. I believe they were Rotordyne blades. The blades impacted the prop near the prop hub just outboard of the rotor's hub bar. The inertial of the blade (s) bent the leading edge forward on the striking blade. This resulted in a horrible imbalance and the pilot had a wild ride to the ground.
His only injury, was a shoulder / neck area cut, from the shoulder harness.

[Master Roda]

For example: I was building an electric bb gun using two RC racing motors, basically it worked like the ball thrower at them batting cages. I had two motors spinning at 50k rpm and fitted to the shaft was a 2" aluminum disk containing a 1/4" thick rubber seal. This seal was so tight that it took two of us to stretch it on; it was also bonded with special rubber glue. well as we proceeded to power up the motor I could not believe my eyes this seal broke loose from the glue joint and turned itself into a 4" fly rubber ring, that’s right the rubber seal grew nearly twice its size and came off the disk......well back to the drawing board. If it had worked I would have been able to sling bbs at nearly 500fps using all electric.


Why didnt you try using solid rubber wheels? OR, Aluminum dipped in tool coating?

Jon