Hello from Germany

[Gyro_Kai]

Hello,

just started my training and only had 2 flights so far (actually only one real training flight, the first one was just for getting hooked ;) ). The winter will be mostly theory, due to foggy weather conditions but I'm certainly looking forward to springtime...

You have a great forum here,

JB.

[flightexpress]

Welcome Jim what are your training in....

Kurt

[Gyro_Kai]

Well here in Germany the choices are limited. I'm training on an MT-03. Very nice machine, even though some criticism can be found. I like it.

So far my experience is of course limited, but it clearly exceeds anything I have ever flown in and I have a silver frequent flyer card :) .

[Friendly]

JB
Welcome,
What gyros are available in your area for purchase. You probably will start out in a single place. Post some pictures of your trainer and your airport. I would like to see Germany.

[Kingchocolate]

Hey JB
Where at in Germany? I have some friends that live in Germany. Yes it only takes one flight to get you hooked.

Scott

[Timchick]

Welcome Jim. Keep us posted with your training progress and don't forget the pictures.

[dragonflyerthom]

Gutten Tag Jim

Froliche Weinachten. Ich bin in Berlin stationiert gewehsen unt ein mal durch Frankfurt. Ich glaube sie vierden fiel lehrnen hier. Ich habe alle mein Deutsch vergessen.

Welcome and come bach soon.

[Gyro_Kai]

Hello,

here in Germany there are a lot of regulations for anything that moves and aircraft in particular. Gyrocopters qualify as a special division of microlites. This means, they must weigh less than 450 kg (992 lbs) for 2-seater, 300 kg (661 lbs) for 1-seater.

There are 3 ways to get a device into the air legally (my layman understanding):

1. General type approval
Like cars the type must undergo lenghty analysis to get a general approval, from then on it can be sold "off the shelf"

2. Item by Item approval
There is a general approval for the type which is not as cumbersome, but every sold vehicle must be checked and tested.

3. Self built aircraft
This division only allows vehicles with more than 50% effort put in by the builder. It cannot be sold and must always be flown by the builder. The original plans and the building process are governed by a special privat organisation the Oskar Ursinius Club.

The first, the crown-approval :) , is the hardest to get and as far as I know, only the MT-03 has it. The paperwork, mostly consisting of engineering calculations, was alledgedly of similar strength as the NY-yellow pages.

There are two more models in German airspace but I believe (don't quote me on this) that they only have the type 2 approval.



The Spanish Ela 07s which served as a blueprint for MT-03
The Italian Magni (M-14 and M-14TT which is a stripped down M-16 for German weight restrictions)


There is a nice comparison somewhere in the forum between the MT-03 and the Magni 14TT or 16.

The MT-03 is a 2-seater tandem (one behind the other). It has a lightweight Airocopter aluminium rotor (as opposed to a heavier composite in Magnis) which is said to be more agile but also more nervous than the Magni rotor. The MT-03 comes with either the Rotax 912 s (100hp) or 914 (115hp), although I also once saw an offer for a 912 (80hp) version.
The no-frills version costs about 42,000 Euro (54,600 $US current rate).

The MT-03 has recently aquired approval for the British market which appearantly is not easy to get.

In Europe the legislation is quite different from country to country. In France and Italy the

Gyros can be heavier. Furthermore in those countries they can land anywhere. In Germany, Austria, Benelux start and landing is only allowed from "designated areas" namely airports. Trying to get an approval for your front lawn from county, mayor, environmentalists etc. is a nightmare.


I'll try to get some decent photos from my home-airbase which is Mainz-Finthen (EDFZ) and the machine, in the meantime enjoy the following advertisement for the MT-03

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhn7NmTfzfA


Homepage of MT-03: http://www.eaglesworld.de the english section is poorly maintained, go to the German part and choose "Galerie" for photos "Tragschrauber then Videoshow" to see the video.

P.S: I already hate my alias, I try to change, otherwise I'll be re-born with my real name, which is Kai.

P.P.S: Merry X-mas to you, too dragonflyerthom, I can still understand you, good on you :)

[dragonflyerthom]

Kai

The JimBeam is a good american whiskey as you know. Just sign your post with Kai and it will be good. At least no one else has that name. You can PM ToddP and ask him to change it.

Thanks for the videos
Happy flying.

Thom

[Gyro_Kai]

Hi, yes I know about the Whiskey of course :wave: , cheers!

One addendum to the weights in my post:
A prober "legal German person" weighs 90 kg (198 lbs). So subtract two from the two-seater and one from the one-seater and you arrive at the weight for machine plus petrol. Out to lunch now, I'm underweight...

Kai.

[gyromike]

Kai,

If you want to change your login ID, just create a new one.
Once you have that done, let me know and I'll merge your old (jimbeam) account with the new one, and you won't lose any of your posts.

[Gyro_Kai]

The speed of service is awe inspiring. Only just talked about, already I'm re-named. Here are the only photos I have so far

Kai (formerly known as Jimbeam).
Frigging cold day for an open gyro.

http://www.gyrokai.kilu.de/res/Gyro_Kai/school/01prep_for_flying.jpg

[Friendly]

Kai,
what brand of wheels are on that gyro and what size is the tires

[Gyro_Kai]

size of tyre is 4.00-6-6PR according to specs, brand I'll find out

[Hognose]

Kai,

welcome to a truly international brotherhood. I lived down south of you for some years (Augsburg, Munich and Bad Tölz) while I was in the Army and spent many months there while I was based in the States as well. If you ever lapse into German (which seems unlikely with your excellent English), I read it as well as I do English.

I agree that German efficiency may reign in the factories and on the Autobahnen but it turns into something completely different when it becomes German bureaucracy. It was one of two things I did not love about (then, "West") Germany. (The other was that all the shops closed promptly at 6 PM. I was spoiled by American late-night shopping... which by the time I came home, was all-night shopping in some places).

Favourite thing I can't ever do again: blow by the VoPos at about 200kph on the Autobahn Helmstedt-Berlin. (I'd then have to stop and sit for a bit, which was verboten, or the American MPs would ticket me at the checkpoint for violating the 100k speed limit). The road was in very poor shape but it was worth it to irritate and frustrate the People's Police.

Anyway, Herzlich Wilkommen zu unser Forum, Kai, and best of luck in your training -- or as the old Luftwaffe guys used to say, "hals u. beinbruch!"

cheers

-=K=-

[Gyro_Kai]

Hello Hognose,

thanks for the flowers regarding my English. You would be suprised, even Germany is changing. Shops may now open up to 10p.m. which is a huge change. But I agree, the bureaucracy is overwhelming. It even got worse with the EU taking its toll. And all this effort didn't help against e.g. cow madness. However, the good thing about it is, that constructors of aircraft have to be very determined and professional to go through the process of approval. So at least, what you get, will be reasonably safe.

Kai.