Electric Start on AirCommand 532 anyone?

[MoFishtail]

Hello everyone.
I am a newbie to the site as I have just purchased a used Air Command 532 Gyro. Does anyone out there have the electric start installed on the magneto end of the engine? The mounting plate that I have Rotax 910 731, does not seem to want to let the starter solenoid clear the main mast :confused: .
I have tried several different ways of putting it on but either the mast is in the way or one of the two control cyclic poles are in the way?!?!
Can anyone please send me a picture of what you have installed?
Mine does not even have the starting pulley attached. It is just the bare magneto assembly cover showing out the end.
Any help would be great!
Thank you,
Randy in Rolla, Missouri

[Caribean_gyro]

you can change the reduction drive and put the starter there.
CHuck

[GyroRon]

Please know that unless that gyro has been converted to centerline trust, the gyro can be very easy to bunt over. The 532 is a powerful engine and one known to either be on or off due to it's peaky powerband. Even with the stock aircommand stab - hope you got this too - the high trustline coupled with the power of that engine.... well let's just say things can get bad real quick.

If your gyro has CLT you would know cause the seat would be rather high off the ground. If the seat is still relatively low to the ground then the conversion hasn't be done. The good news is the conversion is cheap and easy to bolt on if you want to do it.

[Chuck Roberg]

Randy try either;

California Power Systems (http://www.800-airwolf.com/)
or
Leading Edgse Airfoils (http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com/)

They should offer another type of starter that should work. In other words more money.

[CLS447]

Welcome FISH ! Congrats on the Air Command purchase! Don't like to pullstart ,eh ! Chucks right, there's a couple different types of starters. Good Luck & keep on posting!

[MoFishtail]

Thank you to all that replied to my questions. That will give me some
ideas and routes of information to maybe help me along the way!
As for my motor, the previous owner did not include the starting pulley
or any type of pull rope assembly. The magneto end of the motor is
just exposed and you can see the magneto housing assembly end.
I wish he would have included the pull start assembly so I could have
just used it that way! :mad:
Mine does not have the center line mod done to it, (yet), but now that
I have the information it sounds like the way to go with this particular
model of gyro.
Thanks to all of you that provided me with information and suggestions
as I will probably have many more questions to throw at everyone!
Randy in Rolla, Missouri

[Dean_Dolph]

Randy, just in case you don't know about it, PRA chapter 35, the St. Louis Rotorcraft Club, is just up the road from you. They seem to have a pretty active club with people like Greg & Steph Gremminger, among others, as members. These are knowledgeable people so if you join that club you are going to get all the help you need.

This is a link to the PRA chapter 35 web site http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Orbit/2622/

[Udi]

Randy,

I have a CLT Air Command 532 with an electric starter and no pull rope. I have converted it to CLT (after I bought is from someone who did a half ass job…). Is your engine mounted with the sparks plugs up or down? The CLT upgrade kit includes everything you need to flip the engine with the plugs up, as it should be!

If you post a few pictures of your gyro and engine we'll be able to help you more.

I will echo some of the above advice; you don't want to fly the Air Command with a high thrust line, and the best thing you can do is join your local PRA chapter and get some help. Greg Gremminger knows Air Commands very well and he will be able to steer you in the right direction.

By the way - it took me one whole year to complete this conversion. You may be able to do it quicker if you don't have the same work/wife/family/money limitations that I do... :eek:

Frankly, my best advice to you is – unless you are up for a serious project, is sell the old Air Command and buy a modern kit or a modern already-built gyro. Converting an old Air Command is way too much work and expense. I am happy with the way my gyroplane turned out, and I learned a lot in the process, but I would not do it again.

Good luck!

Udi :cool:
p.s. I can post a few pictures of my 532 installation post conversion if it would help.

[GyroRon]

Udi no offense but your picky. Most people could do the conversion in a short time and it is worth it. Your advise to sell the old Aircommand I don't agree with either. Yes there is better modern machines out there but converted to CLT this gyro will be just as good as anything else. what that gyro needs is someone to do the conversion, not sell it to yet another owner. Randy may have flown it without a hitch, but then again this thread may have just saved Randys life. If he sold it to someone else and that person didn't know the importance of the CLT mods that person might die.... It is best to nip it in the butt now. Go CLT!!!

Udi don't take this post the wrong way please.

[Udi]

I am not surprised at all by your answer, Ron, since you were the one that recommended the Air Command I bought! I think you would agree with me if I told you everything I had to go through to make this gyro an airworthy flying machine. It aint worth it.

Regards,

Udi-

[MoFishtail]

Udi, thank you for your informative post on the Air Command 532. I would very much like to see some of your progress pictures as I will probably be doing the same route. I will try to post some pictures of my gyro, in it's current condition and then everyone will get a better idea of where I am and where I want to be. Where did you get your electric start at? Really interested in how it is attached as mine won't fit due to the mast being in the way.
Boy this Website is great!! Informative people responding with excellent information! I think I'm going to like this hobby! :D
Randy

[MoFishtail]

Gyro Ron, you sound like a very experienced pilot. Thank you for your advice on the CLT mod. That will probably be the first thing I invest in.
Dean_Dolph, thank you for your advice about the St Louis Rotor Club. I have already spoken with Greg about lessons before I purchased this AC so now I just have to find the time and the money. :D
Udi, I hope that I can do the CLT mod a little quicker than one year. Being single helps out a lot in the financial department and I only have to answer to myself. ;) Surely this can't be much more difficult then putting my extended forks on my Suzuki VS1400 Intruder motorcycle? That took me about a month and 2K.
I will post some pictures and more questions to all of you in the near future.
Thank you all for the help to this newbie to the hobby! :D
Randy in Rolla, MO

[GyroRon]

Udi, start a thread and go through all the mods and work you had to do. I reccomended the gyro to you cause as far as I knew it was in great shape short of the finishing up that was left to do from the CLT conversion, and I know you had to have been aware that you were going to have some degree of work to do when you got it home. you made the most serious mistake in that you were too busy or couldn't for some reason come out to inspect the gyro for yourself before buying it.

Am I sorry I got involoved in that sale? you bet your behind I am! I didn't have anything to gain what so ever by helping either you find a gyro or helping Jimmy sell his. I have put a cloud of Udi Doom over my head cause you think I reccomended a Piece of $hit gyro to you, as if I knew the condition of every nut and bolt and junction on that machine. As far as I knew it was fine and airworthy after the wiring and what ever else was needed was done. Certainly for the price you got it for you can't complain too loudly.

but I would like to see what all you did and how much of that was needed and how much of that was optional stuff that didn't really need doing.

I do agree with you about the rotorblades. I would have been POed had I thought the blades were a certain size and I found out they weren't. I never measured them so I only knew what the size was by being told the size, Same as you. I guess it teaches a lesson to both of us that in the future if you buy a set of used blades make sure to put them together and measure, don't assume the owner knows the true size.

Once again I never tryed to stick you with a crappy machine, I thought it was a good machine and thought my efforts to get you two together - you and Jimmy - would be a happy deal for the two of you. I think I got shorted, cause neither of you ever said even thanks for the time I spent on it.

[Udi]

...I have put a cloud of Udi Doom over my head cause you think I reccomended a Piece of $hit gyro to you, as if I knew the condition of every nut and bolt and junction on that machine...

LOL... Ron, you are ok. You have to understand that I don't blame you! You are absolutely correct - in retrospect I should have spent the time and money to fly to GA and inspect the gyro myself. I based my decisions on the opinions of other people (whom I had no reason to doubt), and that is my own fault. Don't worry about "Udi Doom" - I don't blame you! I take full responsibility for my own decisions.

The main problem, Ron, is that unless you are thoroughly familiar with a certain machine, you cannot know the true condition of that machine. Even Maxie, who worked with Jimmy on this machine, didn't know about all the broken and worn-out parts that had to be replaced. I only found them when I took the gyro apart. Almost all the plastic saddles on the whole machine were cracked or broken. Both engine support tubes had broken U-brackets. All the bearings were shot (I mean completely!). Many holes were elongated. Bolts bent. Rusted hardware. The list goes on and on. On top of that, I had to deal with the domino effect, which I will discuss in more detail in another thread. Most of what I had to do was not optional.

If you think that I am being too picky for replacing broken and worn-out parts in my gyro than I think you need to re-calibrate your airworthiness standards, Ron. Every time I found another broken or otherwise sub-standard part, I could not believe my gyroplane has flown in the condition it was in.

I will start a new thread about my own experience buying and rebuilding an old A/C. I will write after I finish the work. The only issue that is pertinent to this thread is my underestimating of the work and $ needed for completing the conversion, and making an old A/C airworthy.

Please let's keep this thread on track. It's about Randy's machine, not mine.

Udi :cool:

[GyroRon]

Ok Udi I hear ya. I didn't mean you were picky to do what your doing to your gyro, I didn't know it was that bad

[MoFishtail]

Well, I decided to go back to the pull rope start on my Air Command.
I think this will work out well for me and is less trouble.
I will have to post some pictures of my gyro to let everyone see some
before pictures as I go through the motions of restoration and getting
it airworthy.
Thanks,
Randy in
Rolla, Missouri