Goose Creek almost ate another gyro today....

[GyroRon]

Was out at the creek today to do some flying, it was pretty windy as we had a cold front come through last night.

Me and another - I will leave his name out of it - were out flying out gyros and doing some hovering and general playing around in the wind. I landed and stopped my blades and got out to watch this other person land and goodness me.... I have never seen a gyro bounce around so out of control and NOT flip over! Lucky for him he got it under control at the last second, one more bounce and I know it would have been all over for him.

Hopefully he will take this as a cue that he needs training in type before he bites the big one and hopefully he will schedule a hours dual with Rusty Nance to learn grease in those landings with this type of gyro. :whip:

Anyway, I probably shouldn't even post this as I don't want to hurt my friends feelings... But I think if he doesn't take some type training he will be eating asphalt soon.

[MikeBoyette]

Ron,
With my first guess of three I guess Barry. Since he is new to the type that Rusty teaches in. This is common for guys who go from low riders to a Dominator. It is usually easier for them flying off grass since a Dominator is born and bred for grass operation.

[StanFoster]

Ron: Was it one of them "jacked" up gyros? :boink: :flame: :)

Just couldnt resist since I have one now. They will tip over easier.:flame:




Stan

[GyroRon]

I can neither confirm nor deny the pilots identity! ;)

Yeah the machine is one of the jacked up models! I know the gyro can flip over easier due to the higher CG of the machine in comparison to a low rider gyro, but I don't think that is the issue with Dominators....

Aircommand CLT models have a high CG, so do many other tall profile gyros, you only hear of problems with people flipping over CLT gyros with mainly Dominators. I think the Dominators castering nose wheel and landing gear geometry and the type of shocks used all combine to result in a gyro that MUST be landed with both main wheels touching down at the same time and with equal force. Land hard with most of the force on just one wheel and you end up bouncing over to the other wheel, which throws all the energy back over to the other wheel and so and so forth as it builds on itself till it just flips over. Lucky this pilot was able to ride it out and finally pulled the stick back and throttle to idle and stopped the gyros side to side PIO that almost caused a accident.

I have NEVER came even close to having a problem with any Dominator on takeoff or landings, and I know several others who also have never had trouble. But if your not trained on how to land smoothly and equally on both main wheels at the same time, you may end up with some road rash.

[Passin' Thru]

Are you saying that the suspension doesn't have sufficient damping to control rebound? What kind of shocks are being used?:boom:

[scottessex]

Geeze do we need to think up a nickname for Barry?

You should be able to coach Him Ron, But He was never that good at greased landings in the gyrobee either. (I am not knocking anyones landings, I have had my srare of bad ones).

[GyroRon]

Geeze do we need to think up a nickname for Barry?

You should be able to coach Him Ron, But He was never that good at greased landings in the gyrobee either. (I am not knocking anyones landings, I have had my srare of bad ones).

I can not confirm nor Deny this pilots name! :tape:

Well since you bring up my good buddy Barry.... :yo: Yeah, he needs a little practice on those landings. He is getting better in flight though and overall he is doing really good in his flying. Just needs some work on those landings, and the Dominator is a unforgiving bird when it comes to sloppy landings.

I have flown his gyro and it is more sensitive than mine as far as ground handling goes. Not sure if it is the toe in or toe out of other alignment issues his gyro may possibly have.... Or is it the shocks he has.... or what....?.... I think he could probably have less problems in mine, and next CALM day were both out at the creek I want him to try mine out to see if he does better in mine, which I think he would. Of course I hope he goes to see Rusty and takes a hour with him, it is money WELL SPENT!!!!!

On a side note, Barry and I had a rate of climb contest this afternoon. Any guess who won that contest? :first:

And Barry and I took his new airplane for a flight late this afternoon. I was happily surprised at how nice it flew. It needs some TLC, but it really flew good, especially considering the winds were still blowing very strong, his Rans S-12 handled the wind with no problem at all. It is pretty easy to fly, but has very stiff gear and I don't think it will handle a hard landing too well. Barry will do okay in it after a little transition training in it.

[NoWingsAttached]

Who was it that first said, "There is no such thing as a routine landing"? I read here where someone asked why Gyro wheelbase is only 6' max. The answer was trailer width rectricts that. BUT trailer width is legal to 8' So, if width = landing stability = safety, then should I extend my gear to 8'? When I rebuild my old AC tandem & put lift kit on it, I am thinking about using the forward main gear struts (which are 4') and swapping them around with the 3' wide struts. Any thoughts on that?

[GyroRon]

I really don't think 2 foot wider gear will really make much difference. I have seen gyros with a width of less than 3 foot from outside of one tire to the outside of the other and not have a problem.

[Timchick]

The tandem AC's have always looked pretty stable on landings. I've ridden with Maxie in his numerous times and the landings were smooth and solid (of course the pilot has a lot to do with that). I don't think you'll have a problem with the standard width.

[ultracruiser41]

Thanks Ronny for you candid observations you putz!!!

Enough said.....I'm e-mailing Rusty right now! (want to fly me down there for a few hours????) (I'll pay for gas!)

By the way.....I out climbed him and then I saw him pouting so I throttled back a little to make him feel better!

Barry (stop n drop) K

[Aussie_Paul]

Questions?? How important is the ratio of wheel base to track width? Are their certain ratios to be avioded?

Aussie Paul. :)

[scottessex]

By the way.....I out climbed him and then I saw him pouting so I throttled back a little to make him feel better!

That a boy!

[GyroRon]

That a boy!


He is full of it!

[GyroRon]

Enough said.....I'm e-mailing Rusty right now! (want to fly me down there for a few hours????) (I'll pay for gas!)



Barry (stop n drop) K

Be glad to. Let me know when your ready!

[GyroRon]

Are you saying that the suspension doesn't have sufficient damping to control rebound? What kind of shocks are being used?:boom:

The shocks used on Dominators are automotive air shocks, typically used to replace the standard shock absorber on a car or truck so you can pump the shock up with air to keep the vehicle from sagging when loaded with alot of weight.

Not sure if the " Dominator Dance " problem is related to the shocks, or not.

I do know that at Bensen Days when people who have new Dominators, and feel the gyro has the "Dominator Dance" trait, I have seen Ernie Boyette and several others, use a torch to heat the steel landing gear and bend the gear to align the wheels properly. From what I have witnessed, once these alignment adjustments have been made, the gyro owners seem to be very pleased with the results.

There is a good chance Barrys Dominator is out of alignment. And what could be making that problem worse is Barry choose to use very wide Aircraft / GoKart tires instead of the tall and narrow boat trailer tires Ernie reccommends to be used on these machines. I have the wide Gokart type tires on my ship but I have not had any problems, My axles are aligned where the tire is wearing mostly on the inside edge of the tire and not the center of the tread.....

[gyromike]

When Mike Morgan bought his Dominator, it did the 'duck walk' on me. We noticed that the toe-in was off a little on the right side, so I just slipped a slightly larger piece of tubing over the axle and pulled. It didn't need much so I didn't heat it.

I sighted through the axle tube and pointed it at the opposite axle.
No more duck walk.

Welded parts tend to warp a little during construction, so even if built in a jig they may still need a little tweaking on assembly.

[Paul_in_Ohio]

He is full of it!

I don't know about that... "First you say it, then you do it!" :lol:

[automan1223]

You guys were flying in that wind and low ceiling yesterday ?

not smart !!!

J

[ultracruiser41]

Wind was fun....sunny skies here!

Ron,

Rusty looked over the "Margaritaville" at ROC and felt the wheels were pretty good in alignment....he managed several good take-offs and landings.

Problem is me I feel and not the machine. Anybody have Rusty's current e-mail address???

Thanks,

BarryK

[Mike Schallmann]

I dont know the ceiling that they were flying in - as long as it was within limits it was OK-but the wind is not a problem - gyros are made for the wind --I routinely fly in 35 mph winds --it is NO problem --if you think it is then maybe you should rethink your choice of aircraft--

[GyroRon]

Yesterday there was hardly a cloud in the sky here, lot's of blue mostly.

Those low ceilings near Jonathan is all part of a Government plan to control weather by spraying chemicals into the exhaust of commercial jet liners... This is why there is contrails.... Right jonathan???? ;) ;) :)

Barry, I think you should have a email right now from the club - with some very bad news for chapter 13 by the way - that has Rustys email address in there

[GyroRon]

And I hope your not mad at me for starting this thread. It was not aimed at making fun of your landing skills or anything, it is just that I felt I needed to do something to grab your attention to this matter as I had suggested to you to ride with Rusty several times already and you didn't seem to want to do it... Just a hour with him at 120 or 150$ or whatever he charges is much better than the 3-4 thousand dollars minimum in damage from a tip over in your machine, plus the possible broken bones and road rash. I am just looking out for you, hopefully you know that!!!

And shame on Scott for being so mean! ;)

[scottessex]

I know, my bad, sorry Barry I feel like a heel, at least you didn't stop and plop like I did!

[Fl90]

Ron got off pretty easy with this thread. Seems there would have been more tact, but I don't know the history on this particular advise. By the way, how fast was the ground speed backward as you hovered in the wind?

[automan1223]

Ron,

Barry is transitioning from a low slung gyrobee to a high top dominator. If you were flying in GUSTY wind like we had here then I second what I said, NOT SMART. Barry is still learning the envelope of his new machine if he wants to admit it or not. Was it not YOU who did a dominator dance in Tims dominator, intentional or not ???

As for the chemtrails, yes they were off the charts, and I sent the list photos. Just amazes me the "non event" of how basically a nor easter could form from 12 midnight where we had a straight line of a front to a swirling mass in less than 6 hours. Where did all of this energy come from at night ? without the sun. ??? heating the air ? They have been spraying for 2 weeks like I have never seen....

The coverup at the weather channel was almost laughable. they could not get off the radar image of the swirling mass / low fast enough and jump to the north west.... :lol: And all of yesterday and today THEY HAVE IGNORED IT !! I got news for you, this unnamed storm is beating the hell out of the east coast.

Either they are in on the deal or they are mystified as to how such weather forms in a matter of hours in complete darkness. and all the computer models are out to lunch. Haarp is working overtime.

But hey, I will change the tinfoil in my hat as long as you keep looking down and remain in a state of denial and basic weather and physics. Jets at such high altitudes dont magically turn on and off their exhaust. In fact some aircraft do not even have a contrail at all which is quite remarkable, until they turn on their stuff....

Jonathan

[Friendly]

Barry,
I am glad the duck walk did not get your gyro. How do you like flying the the big D over the little B.??

[GyroRon]

FL90.... I am not sure I understand your post.

Jonathan, your right, I totally forgot about me in Tims machine at ROC.... I nearly went over in it, same thing Barry did. I totally forgot about it till I was on the phone with you earlier. At ROC I was flying Tim Verroi's Dominator and being overly brave with it, I decided to try to turn 45 degrees at the last second and land on the other runway as everyone else was... I misjudged how much float was left in the blades and had a tire touch before I got the gyros line of travel in a straight line and the gyro started a ugly Dominator dance, I was very lucky to have been able to get it stopped before she went over. It was a simple mistake of pushing the limit with a simple trick that I misjudged that caused this.

[ultracruiser41]

Mark,

The Dominator is a performing machine. It's flight characteristics are awsome!

The take-offs and landings take some time. It definately is different from the Bee!

A few hours with Rusty and I'll be as good as Ron! (or at least better looking!)

[scottessex]

I'm just glad nobody is around to see my landings most of the time.:lalala:

[ultracruiser41]

OK...time for a new thread!