SparrowHawk Build Pictures, Part II

[r.coplen]

I thought I would start a new thread to make it a little easier to get to the new pictures. I am now working on several major areas at one time and will post pictures as they take shape.

1. This week I have been playing with avionics positioning and I have been getting help with the schematic from Dr. G. When I have completed both, I will post for input before I finalize my plan and assemble. The wiring is a real big deal and I am going to take the time to do it right. (An get all the help I can) Another part of the wiring is the engine, lights, battery ectra. I am beginning to start on the overhead console where the fuses and switches are mounted.

2. As I said before I have taken the engine totally apart to prepare it to be painted black with gold highlights (fuel lines and such). Everything was like new inside but that is the only way I knew to make sure the paint will never come off. Also I really wanted to learn everything I could about these engines sense they are part of the kit I am selling. I have ground,sanded, acid dipped, ect. As they do at AAI, I will have an A&P mechanic, Dr. G, helping me (or is it I will helping him) assemble the Subaru. I will post pictures as I progress.

3. I am beginning to put a number of additional assembles on the SparrowHawk. Fuel lines, lights, aerials, upper mast, rotor head, ectra. I will post pictures.

Below is a photo that is starting to look like a SparrowHawk. I ended up painting all the wheels black. The wheels were silver before and just didn't go with the gold and black theme. I set the seats in for this picture but have not set up the adjustable mounts yet.

[r.coplen]

The fuel lines will connect to the two fuel pumps that will be positioned under the wheel struts. Sorry about the dust on the cabin. with a flash it realy looks bad.

[Whirlydog]

Wow, look at that shop everything has its place and everything in its place. Nice looking gyro too.

Shawn

[r.coplen]

I fabricated a nose wheel doubler and used UV portected 1/8 inch gasket rubber around the nose wheel support. It came out looking great and gave me a little additional cabin support. This is the bottom shot and inside the cabin.

[r.coplen]

Inside view

[r.coplen]

This will be the connection area for the radio antenna. I put a gound plate in the bottom of the SparrowHawk so there would be no radio transmission problems. I had so many problems with my modified RAF (had to totally rewire it.) that I decided to go the extra effort mile. It seems to me that bad grounds cause more problems than most people realise.

[r.coplen]

Here is a picture of the grounding plate before I had it covered with "Zollotone"

[steveb]

Apologies if you've already got this covered, but you'll need to put some protection around those fuel lines where they touch the cabin and the airframe, or you'll have a nick in them in no time.

Great looking machine.

[r.coplen]

Steve,

Good question. I will support the fuel lines with clamps and the lines will be insulated from the cabin. I will post a picture next week on how that looks and how I mounted and connected the fuel pumps. I am excited about putting the pumps in this area because it will be a clean looking installation.

[CLS447]

Nice work! Keep up with the pics, please! The picture of the whole ship sitting in the shop almost looks like an artist's conception. Too pretty, to be real.

[Gyrobound]

Randy, great job. I was down in Florida on vacation last week and got a chance to meet Terry Eiland and got my initial orientation flight in his Modified RAF. Yes I am hooked and want to get my own Sparrow Hawk now as soon as possible. Keep the pictures coming Randy.

Scott

[r.coplen]

Scott,

Terry is one of the best gyroplane people (person?) I know. It won't be too long before he starts flying his SparrowHawk. If you buy your SparrowHawk from Terry I don't see how you can't go wrong. He and his son have both modified RAF's with the AAI centerline thrust mod kits and now Terry has built the complete SparrowHawk kit. I have flown with him and watched him fly with a number of folks and he is a great pilot and gyro CFI and just a nice guy to be around.

Terry Eiland, he da man.

[Vance]

Hi Randy, Once again your photos take my breath away. You are an inspiration! Thank You, Vance

[r.coplen]

Just got back in town with Ruby. Ruby will start flight training on Monday or Tuesday after after a condition review. Pulled some pictures out of the camera and finally got time to post.

Placemnt of seat supports.

[r.coplen]

Finding seat center as a place to begin in placing seat.

[r.coplen]

Trying seat placement to get the position I want. It still will be adjustable forward and aft but not side to side.

[Gyrobound]

Randy, the last picture looks like you're sitting in an old privee (two holer) as my dad use to call them. Good to see some more posts from you. Can’t wait to see the final product.

Terry said he was a little further along than you and that he should post some pictures as well but I haven’t seen any. Terry, if you're out there, lets see some pictures of that new Sparrow Hawk of yours. :D

Scott

[KenSandyEggo]

Oh, man! A built-in Porta-Potty? A 2-holer no less. That's even better than a grill and drink-caddy!

[PW_Plack]

That beady-eyed caught-in-the-flashbulb look is exactly like the one in an old photo I took on a Boy Scout camping trip once. A porcupine was caught on film at 3AM gnawing on the seat of the camp outhouse!

But, it was only a one-holer...

[rehler]

Of course that's a "caught-in-the-act" look. Look what's in his hand?

[GyroRon]

Ken R. your disgusting! lol

[Gyrobound]

Great guy's now he'll never post any more pictures. We've done it now. :(

Scott

[r.coplen]

Ya get what you get when I stick my face in these pix. I'm glad I have a strong camera. Well anyway here I am setting the position of the rudder peddles. There is about 17% of movement on the rudder between the stops. It is a tight placement for the peddles but there is just enough room. Might have to shim under the peddle support just a little to get the exact placement. The kick plate is about 1/4 inch fiberglass. It comes in a molded, uncut piece and you have to cut, bend, drill, and attach.

[r.coplen]

Ready to attach Kickplate to cabin.

[r.coplen]

Back to work. Took time off to drive down to Buckeye and pick up Ruby. 3,000 miles. Boy you get tired of sitting. How do truck drivers do it day in and day out?
On the way back hit 50 to 60 mile and hour gusts in Las Vegas. Hid behind a building for three hours to protect Ruby.

Dropped into GBA head quarters in Salt Lake and saw some of the part manufacturing processes used in making parts for the SparrowHawk. The main engineering is completed in Salt Lake and a lot of the parts are made there. I looked at the rotor head assembly. The specs call for no more than a variation of two ten thousands. I can't wait to show it off. They CNC the parts at the GBA machine shop.

GBA has just completed a jig that positions, cuts and drills all the pieces for the keel assembly. I know I spent over 40 hours pulling parts, checking the measurements, setting up and drilling pilot holes, putting in small clecoes, redrilling, putting in big clecoes, cutting, and bending. On their third set of parts they did it in one hour and ten minutes. It is accurate and repeatable within two thousands of an inch. They will use it in setting pilot holes for the kit parts, manufacturing parts for public use aircraft and for LSA aircraft when that program becomes possible.

Well, here are some more pix of my progress. I feel I am going slower than I would like. It just takes time to do it right. I want to be flying at Arlington. It's getting tight.

Kick plate doubler for supporting the rudder peddles.

[r.coplen]

Drilling through the kick plate and the cabin floor. OUCH, more bolts sticking through the paint job. Have to be careful on the alignement and position of the holes.

[r.coplen]

Kick Plate with Rudder Peddles

Finely in position. Covered kick plate with Wing Walk compound. Looks good and will stand up forever. (that's a long time. I guess I am a little over excited about how it came out)

[r.coplen]

Setting and clamping cables with sledges. Spent a lot of time measuring and making sure alignement is just right. I think I have it just right. But you know what. Jim has a anti-servo attachment he is finishing testing and I bet I will have to modify the tension springs about the time I am ready to fly. I saw it in Buckeye on Jim's SparrowHawk. It just takes a light touch on the rudder peddles. The mod kits have been noted for needing fairly heavy rudder peddle pressure.

[r.coplen]

Got to take a break and get Ruby in the air. Scott Tinnesand flew up from Goodyear Az. and spent a day giving instructional flights to seven folks interested in the SparrowHawk. He also spent a day of training with David Overman who is in training to be our next CFI. David is at about 70 hours into the CFI program with another 30 or 40 hour to go. We have put about 200 hour on Ruby so far this year. I will to get my pilots license this summer. Can't wait to start flying the SparrowHawk. That will make building hours and flying cross country a pleasure.

[Gyrobound]

Randy, where will David be based out of? Nice looking machine there. Looks a lot like Terry Eiland's.

Scott

[r.coplen]

We will use Auburn Municipal Airport. It is about 20 miles south of Seattle.

[Gyrobound]

Any plans on getting a CFI in the New England area? I know there was talk about Maine but not sure how far that got.
Scott

[r.coplen]

Gyrobound,

I will try to get the most up to date info back to you. I have called Salt Lake to see who is the new dealer in that area. Devon and Al are out and will get back to us Monday. Hank Perry did say there was a possible new dealer up in your area. I know there has been a number of dealer inquiries and there are more dealers comming on line throughout the U.S.

Thanks for the interest.

[Gyrobound]

Randy, any of the ones in this area going to be CFI?

Scott

[r.coplen]

Scott,

Still waiting for info on CFI in your area. No feed back yet on CFI's in your area.

Here are pix's of fuel pump installation. Two pumps installed below the keel.

[r.coplen]

View of pumps and filters from above.

[Mayfield]

Good Morning.

I do not yet have any firm word on AAI CFIs in the North East. We are negotiating with one in New Hampshire, and one in northern New York.

We are actively seeking dealers and instructors in that part of the country and in other places.

If a person is interested in becoming an AAI dealer/instructor, it would be best to contact Al Waddill or Devon Hansen at: waddill@gbagyros.com or hansen@gbagyros.com

Jim

[r.coplen]

This pix shows a mochup of my insturment panel that goes on the pod. I am asking for any input as to how I might lay out the insturments better. I am using a thick piece of plastic for the mochup. The final panel will be .090 aluminum with a coating of a dark gray paint. I will have the panel engraved with the verbage needed on the panel. The compass will be located on the top of the pod.

The fuses,head phone jacks, and switches are on a panel overhead.

[Caribean_gyro]

In my Amptronics panel I have the radio below the panel and when transmit the alt goes down 20 feet. also the transponder below the radio. Is abit anoying but nothing major. WHy are you using a separete rotor inst. are you using the fuel flow option

ChucP

[KenSandyEggo]

Randy, if you tried to put in a regular-sized radio and transponder, would they fit? I can't imagine me seeing the numbers on those Beckers and fiddling with the tiny knobs in flight. Same question as Chuck, can't the rotor speed be read off the main unit? That sure is a neat looking panel, though......even if you don't have a glut of instruments and gauges. Any chance of seeing it fired up to see what the display looks like, or aren't you there yet?

[r.coplen]

Chuck, Ken and any other readers,

This is a photo of the configuration out of the AMPtronic manual that I will use. I have an option to change the fuel flow to % of fuel left which is one change I would like to make. Another is adding the word "ENGINE" on the rpm guage. That is shown in another illistration and is an option I think.

As you can see there is no rotor rpm guage in this configuration. I like having the rotor RPM guage as a stand alone so it is easy to see. We will be doing mostly training in this aircraft and that take-off rotor speed is so critical that I want it right on top.

I don't know about the issue of the radio affecting the altitude reading. I have asked for a lot of help from Dr. G in setting up all the electronics so I hope I won't run into many problems like that. I had a ton of them on Ruby and had to rewire the whole aircraft. Jim's SparrowHawk is working well and I haven't heard anything from Terry Eiland about any electronic issues. Maybe it's a grounding feeback, not enough insulation or something along those lines.

Anyway that's where I am at so far. Looking for any feedback. I will lock it in Tuesday and start cutting out the front panel for the pod.

[Caribean_gyro]

this how mine looks. too shine at night
chuck P

[r.coplen]

Chuck,

Is your engine air-cooled?

[Caribean_gyro]

yes is a licoming 180 hp.
Chuck P

[r.coplen]

Fabricating upper cheek plates

[r.coplen]

Placing and riveting upper mast under the watchful eye of Dr. G.

[r.coplen]

Picture of rotor break assembled and painted with brake pad cut, filed down and glued into position.

[r.coplen]

Rotor head assembled and placed in position on upper mast.

[r.coplen]

Putting heads back on engine and finishing final preparation for painting. We disassembled the engine totally and cleaned every part for painting. While we were at it we had NAPPA check all the inside measurements and the engine tech said we had a very fresh engine. Meaning in perfect shape. What ealse would I expect from AAI.

[r.coplen]

Painted the engine outside to keep the vapors out of our work area. I think the soft breeze helped the drying. Used 500 degree high gloss black engine paint.

[r.coplen]

Front View

[Dean_Dolph]

Randy, what kind of rivets are you pulling? It has only been some 40+ years since I pulled any aircraft blind rivets of any size so I'm not sure what is being used these days.

[r.coplen]

Dean,

AAI supplys stainless steel pull rivets with the kit. I get a lot of questions about using rivets instead of AN bolts. A lot of folks think we are using aluminum rivets which don't have near the strength of stainless steel.

[r.coplen]

Engine being put together. This has been actually a lot of fun. Not like working on my old car engines years ago laying underneath my cars in the cold wet weather. I suppect I'm not the only one to enjoy that experience.

My first car was a 1958 FORD convertable(Fix Or Repair Daily). I swear it weighed 6,000lbs. It had a police interceptor 352 which I bored and stroked to a 406. Shaved the heads and added an Isky full race cam and a positraction 411 rear end. Now you would think a smart young guy like me would figure out that there had to be a reason the transmission or the rear end leaf springs were always breaking. Never did beef them up. But I did spend a lot of time underneath that car. Finally sold it for a factory set up 1966 Dodge Coronet 500 (426) It came with duel points which would only stay set for 30 minutes at a time. But what a great 30 minutes.

AAI does supply the SparrowHawk with an upgraded cam that produces an additional 18 horsepower for a total of 148 from the EJ-22

[StanFoster]

Nice detailed work. You will have one heck of a machine when it is done. I think the SparrowHawk is one superb gyrocopter and is backed by a most respectable group of people.

Stan

[r.coplen]

Stan,

Thanks for the kind words. I sometimes wonder if I'm not doing a little overkill on the posting.

I know everyone involved with this project at AAI is working as hard as is possible to make the SparrowHawk an exceptional gyroplane. We are all human and can and do make mistakes from time to time. But the way AAI solves problems is what seperates it form many other other organizations.

I honestly can't wait to start giving instructional rides in my SparrowHawk.

Won't be long now. Plan to be giving instructional flights at the EAA Fly-In at Arlington Wa. on July 7. I plan to go into full time testing on June 26th and have the 40 hours flown off by the 7th. That's cutting it real close but I think our team can do it.

[barnstorm2]

Keep Posting!

Great stuff!

[PW_Plack]

Randy,

You can't possibly post too much!

When I first got interested in gyros, I was very frustrated by the lack of content like this on the web. When you get the bug, you want to read as much as you can. Postings like yours provide as many answers and new questions as the drier theoretical stuff.

And, lest we forget, the more time newbies spend drooling over SparrowHawks, the better for you!

[lanichol]

Stan,

Thanks for the kind words. I sometimes wonder if I'm not doing a little overkill on the posting.



I would say you need to post more. :)

This is the only way people far from a representative are able to study the new gyro. I see designs I really like. And I see hints of items I would like more detail.

For example: How is the prerotator designed? Will it get more RPM than the RAF for shorter take-offs. How good is the suspension? Can it take a hit like the suspension demo on the "sports copter" page. If you can take-off anywhere and land nearly anywhere, this will save lives. I had a friend with the old RAF solid axle; it broke on take-off and nearly killed him. He thought the axle was probably weakened while being roaded on the trailer.

Keep posting, it is appreciated.

[Jim]

Randy,

Keep the posts and pictures coming. We all learn so much!

Thanks

Jim

[Gyrobound]

Don't stop the pictures Randy. They are so informative.
Can't wait to get mine and can only hope it looks half as good as yours.
Scott

[r.coplen]

Pix of painted intake system

[r.coplen]

Basic engine is preaty complete

[r.coplen]

I have to say I really love this engine

[r.coplen]

Full view of engine with reduction gear and on engine hoist.

[r.coplen]

Getting ready to squeeze her in place. Had to remove a couple of support bars to get the engine in place.

[r.coplen]

That's how it looks. It sure feels great to have the engine in place and looking soooooo sweet.

[Gyrobound]

Lookin good Randy. :D :D :D

Scott

[ToddP]

Boy it is really looking good Randy. What do you think, will it be flying by Arlington?

[r.coplen]

Todd

That's plan A,B,C and D. Putting in a lot of hours encluding weekends to get it done. Here's plan "F" I think the only thing that can stop me is are the registration document from the FAA.

I sent all the forms in January and have been trying to get the registration docs sent to me so I can set up an appointment with a DAR. They asked one additional question in March which I faxed back an answer within four hours of recipt of the mail. My discussion this week was with a lady named PAULA on Monday and she said she would order up the file and try to get it done. She said she would call me back but no call. Three weeks ago it was an issue of a contractor (temp employee) had received a fax from me but had lost it. I will try again Monday to reach Paula to see if she has my file and can get docs to me. I have talked to people on four different occasions and no one did what they said they would do.

If anyone has any advice, I'm all ears.

[StanFoster]

Randy: Tom Milton was my DAR and gave me good instructions on obtaining my paperwork for both my Air Command and my RAF that I am flying now.

The only problems I had was having to send in my documentation twice for my Air Command. So...for my RAF...I copied all correspondance with the FAA to date...and sent it back with the new correspondance. I felt having this complete paper trail sitting on their desk in order would help them see what is done and what isnt. It seemed to work..all my paper work was done in just a few weeks on my RAF.

Beautiful work...keep sending those pictures.

Stan

[Vance]

Hi Randy, Your work is just stunning!! You are an inspiration to us all. The next time that I think that something looks as good as it can I will pull up these pictures to remind me that there is a higher plane. Thank You, Vance

[r.coplen]

Well, another couple of days work. Added the exhaust system which was ceramic coated. I had the two headers and the two "Supper Traps" coated for $110.00 plus the local Washington State sales tax of 9%. The starter is on and we are just beginning to put on the wiring. starting to work on the radiator, battery, and hooking up the throttle. The air intake system for the fuel injection is a big project and have started on that too.

[r.coplen]

Thanks Vance for the kind thoughts. This will be my living and a living for two or three other people. I want to have a machine people will want to look at, want to ride in and train in. I think it is better to spend the effort up front to show how the SparrowHawk can be. You know how the old saying goes-- "Its like this only different" For me it's time to start saying "It's like this."

[Vance]

Randy, I don't understand why you feel like you need to justify doing a great job. I don't think that the living is the point. I don't beleive that a person gets as good as you for money. I know that I couldn't do as nice a job no matter how much money someone paid me. I beleive that you are a very special craftsman and nothing you can say can hide the pride of workmanship that you display. Thank You, Vance

[rehler]

R.,

I suggest you connect the two SuperTrapps together with a piece of 3/4" x 3/4" aluminum angle (or something like that) to help stop vibration of the long pipes. It can just run from one over to the other under the engine at the top of the mufflers. Ken J. did this and it seems to work well.

[Mayfield]

The brace you describe is part of the kit Ken. Randy just does not have it installed yet.

Jim

[rehler]

Oh! ... never mind.

[Mayfield]

Ken,

I should not have rushed my reply. What I should have said is "thanks." The odds of us getting everything right are infintesimal!

Anytime that anyone sees anything about our aircraft that does not look right, I need/want/request that they let us know.

The catch you or another makes may save someones life or machine.

Thanks Ken!

Jim Mayfield

[KenSandyEggo]

Well, as long as you asked, Jim. I have been observing the design of the new cabin and instrument pedestal from photos. As you know, there are certain sections of the human eye that are not receptive to stimuli. In the non-medical world, these are known as blind spots. The lack of vision in even a minute section of our vision can be dangerous. I suspect that these blind spots in a pilot of say.........195 pounds with brown hair and hazel eyes and standing about 5-11, could cause reference problems when that pilot is sitting in the Sparrowhawk cabin.

Of course, it would take much time-consuming testing to verify this possibly dangerous situation, and I know you guys are really busy. Therefore, if you will ship me one completed, ready-to-fly Sparrowhawk, I will gladly conduct the experiments to once and forever prove that the Sparrowhawk cabin is a safe design, for anyone that may doubt that fact and is having 2nd thoughts about this. You have my address and I'll be awaiting the shipment. Oh yes.....I will need a transponder and encoder installed, and I'd prefer a bright yellow exterior with dark brown interior. If you fill the gas tank prior to shipment, that will be much appreciated. Yours for continued safety by neutral parties,

Ken J.

[Mayfield]

Ken, (The older, well seasoned but yet youthful ken that lives about as far west as you can get)

I find great difficulty in expressing the level of excitement your offer instills in my heart.

We, the board of directors, will discuss your interesting offer at one of our future meetings.

Jim

[Udi]

I was told that anyone can request a free sample from a manufacturer. Manufacturers, so they say, have a huge marketing budget and are just waiting for people to call and ask for free samples!

So, in the same spirit of generosity that Ken Sandy Eggo has shown, I hereby ask for a free Sparrow Hawk sample, so I can too help you guys evaluate and market your brand new product!

As a bonus, Jim, I will let Karl H. fly this Sparrow Hawk, free of charge, whenever he wishes!

Respectfully,

Udi
Consumer and Marketer

[r.coplen]

This is the pads that the pre-rotator uses to ingage the system and spin up the blades. the pads are cut out from the brake material and shaped to fit the plate. I glued and riveted mine in place.

[r.coplen]

This is the new pre-rotator bearing assembly designed by AAI. It is a lot beefier than my RAF mod. I think it will last much longer. I have rebuilt my RAF pre-rotator system three times in 300 hours and I look for the AAI to last 500 hous or more. It sure looks great. The bearings are stationary and the only thing that moves is the shaft.

[r.coplen]

Pix of full lower pre-rotator assembly withe plate added.

[r.coplen]

Who was it that said these were simple, easy to build aircraft? Nothing to it. What goes where? Got the air intake for the fuel injection, water hoses, fuel lines, sparkplug wires. and lots more. Holly cow, I'm starting to dream about this stuff.

[r.coplen]

Here I am putting on the 72 inch props. Starting with a 11.5 degree angle and will see if that peeks out at 5400 RPM. I am using about 13.5 degrees on my RAF but it has a 68 inch prop. Man I take bad pictures.

These are Warp Drive Props.

[r.coplen]

Pix of radiator overflow tank. Got to have one.

[r.coplen]

Pix of almost complete SparrwHawk except for wiring and mounting pre-rotator, pod and rotor blade. Tomorrow I am going to paint the radiator, mount the battery, and finish the plate for mounting the insturments on the pod. Friday we start all the wiring with Dr. G's help and direction. I have trouble wiring a wall switch by myself.

[KenSandyEggo]

Nice pics, Randy. Do you know, or maybe Jim can jump in here.....is the upper prerotator housing adaptable to the RAF setup? I'm still waiting for the machinist to come up with a bracket for my hydraulic slave. It just P.O.s me when people totally B.S. about when they'll get something done. His one-week estimate has turned into 3 weeks now. Time to go visit him tomorrow and tell him to s*** or get off the pot. Why can't they be honest? I could have gone somewhere else to get it done. I went to him because his Yellow Page ad says, "No job too big or too small."

Hey Paul Bruty....I have the 3 "shoe" brake-pad setup for the prerotator also. What was it you found with the solid piece.....too much heat and slipping? I forgot what you said about it awhile ago.

Hey anyone......the 3 pads engage a flat metal clutch-face. Why couldn't a solid, circular piece of brake material be glued to the metal face, so the 3 pads engage it instead of bare metal? Wouldn't that give a better grip? That seems to be the weak link in the whole system.....the slipping clutch.

[Aussie_Paul]

Ken you asked.Hey Paul Bruty....I have the 3 "shoe" brake-pad setup for the prerotator also. What was it you found with the solid piece.....too much heat and slipping? I forgot what you said about it awhile ago.Ken, you have to put the pulley in a lathe and face the pad material. That makes sure that all the pad material is gripping the clutch plate.

Hey anyone......the 3 pads engage a flat metal clutch-face. Why couldn't a solid, circular piece of brake material be glued to the metal face, so the 3 pads engage it instead of bare metal? Wouldn't that give a better grip? That seems to be the weak link in the whole system.....the slipping clutch.That pad material has to work against metal, or it would grab and wreck everything. Every one that I have lathed down has an improvement of hundreds of %.

Aussie Paul.

[KenSandyEggo]

So what do you use...the solid face or the 3 piece setup?

[quadrirotor]

aren't you afraid to twist the mast, if you have a better clutch grip?

[Aussie_Paul]

Ken, I prefere the 3 pad one as long as all the surfaces are gripping. Wheb using the solid face we drill about 6 X 1/2" holes in the metal clutch plate to help with cooling.

Aussie Paul.

[KenSandyEggo]

One would have to be careful with a good-gripping setup and feather the pressure, although when I have been playing around, I have gone to full pressure almost immediately and waited for the rrpm to build up. (When slipping the clutch though, I imagine we're building up unwanted heat). My engine rpm is only about 700 at this point and I slowly increase it. I always get slippage as I approach 1500 engine rpm. The clutch plate has some free play in it, so it should make a decent contact with the shoes when engaged. When my machinist gets off the pot, I'll be able to try a hydraulic setup and see if additional pressure will do anything. 1 week to make a bracket has turned into 3 weeks.

[Aussie_Paul]

Ken you said "The clutch plate has some free play in it, so it should make a decent contact with the shoes when engaged."

This is not so. All that means is that all the "high points" of the 3 discs will touch at the same time. You have to lathe/turn the pads.

Ken, my procedure is, engine idling, approx 800 rpm, and pull the handle intill the engine rpm reduces by approx 50 rpm. This will get me almost to 100 rrpm with the engine at around 800 rpm. Then I very gently increase engine rpm without letting the clutch slip. If I do it correctly and don't inbcrease the engine rpm too quickly I can get 180 easily. I only need 160 rrpm to be able to do a full power immediately, take off like a fixed wing.

Aussie Paul. :)

[KenSandyEggo]

I'll take a look at my pucks and see if just the high points are making contact. I doubt it though, because I have the original pucks and I use my prerotator a lot, so the high points should be worn down by now.

Well, I have another project along the lines of the clutch. I visited a place that relines clutches and brakes for everything from cars to huge haulers. The owner gave me some ideas and I bought a square foot of some superb material. It retails for $45 per square foot. I'm going to do some experimenting with it. He thought that I should be able to line both surfaces and get a superb grip. I'd still have to slip it a little until the rotor got going, but that should be no problem. My first go will be to reline a spare disk I have with the material and see how it works with the original pucks against it. If it works better, then I may remove the pucks and reline that surface also with the new material.

Popped into the machinist today, and he said that they will be starting the bracket for my hydraulic slave tomorrow. Who knows though? Maybe better linings on the clutch faces will be enough to eliminate most of the slippage most of us are plagued with.

I've tried the same procedure as you, Paul. I can get to around 100 rrpm at idle, but as I very slowly increase the throttle, about 1400 is all I've been able to get before mine starts slipping.

[dae]

Paul, are you saying you go to full power at 160 rpm? Do you do that with all blades or just the particular ones you are flying now? How close do you think you are to flapping? Thanks, David Eiland

[le-wardy]

Dave,
The engine rpm would be theoretically doing about 1700-2000, to get the rotor rpm at 160-170. That's if the clutch isn't slipping at this point.


Les.

[dae]

What are you talking about Les? I am asking Bruty if he goes to full power
with only 160 rpm on the rotor. I know he said he did, but I wanted him to reconfirm. I only go to full power at 200 rpm. How many of you guys go to full power at 160? Who knows at what rpm are you sure NOT to flap 30' blades if you got to WOT?

[Aussie_Paul]

Hi David, The Raf operating manual says, with an ej-22, 150 rrpm before going to full power, so I imposed a limit on myself of 160. With the Sparrow Hawk being a tad heavier I see no problem with 160 rrpm with the fuel injected ej-22. I have not done enough hours with an ej-25 to check figures for that extra HP.

Hybrid is 106 lbs lighter than a Raf and I still have no problems with 160, and I find that if I hit full power at 150 I don't have any problems.

My short field technique is, pre rotate to 150, then keeping the pre rotator engaged apply full power, let the pre rotator go at 200 and conduct a normal take off.

Aussie Paul. ;)

[KenSandyEggo]

What manual do you have, Paul? Mine says full power at 200 rrpm, if I'm not mistaken. I'll recheck it tomorrow at the hangar. Are you saying that when you go to full power, that little clutch with the 3 pucks and bare metal face don't slip? I've never heard of one not slipping past about 1800 or so engine rpm.

[Aussie_Paul]

Of course the the clutch is slipping BUT it is still supplying a driving force. :D

I have had 3 Raf books, and I know that the first 2 said something similar to

"If you apply full power before you Have 150 rrpm you will flap your blades"

I remember Jim Logan sayiong that he teaches not to to go above 4000 engine rpm untill you have 200 rrpm.

If you set up a Raf as per the manual your rotor blades will cut your prop by 2". I limit the back stick to 18 degrees as per Bensen, and I reduce the teeter to 18 degrees with some 1/8th" plastic glued or attached under the hub bar. This also stops the hub bar marking the teeter stops.

Good old Raf, in their wisdom, never fix the root cause, they sell you the "fly out with centrifugal force teeter reducers" which are a pain when stopping rotors on a windy day.

Those clowns at Raf, who in their right mind would have a recomended machine set up, that if you made a mistake, you wrecked your prop!!!!!!!!!

You have only to look at the Rafs at a flyin and you will see the black prop marks beside one of the bolt heads under the lower blade strap.

Don told me, as their rep that " if you conducted the take off as per the manual you would not flap your blades". I asked Don if he had ever made a mistake :eek: because most humans do make mistakes. :)

Aussie Paul.

[dae]

Paul, thanks for your reply. My manual says no full throttle under 200rpm, but I don't exactly trust the RAF factory test pilots that wrote the manual. HA. Does anyone else go to full power at less than 200 besides Paul? Thanks

[KenSandyEggo]

RAF's solution was to supply shorter Warp blades without telling anyone.

[GyroRon]

My old RFI-150 with 29.5 foot rotorhawks could take full throttle on the EJ-22 at 150 RRPM no problems, It would jump off the ground a few seconds later and you would have to push the stick forwards to gain speed or else the gyro would be climbing out way behind the powercurve. If you allowed the gyro to balance on the mains first then go to full power the takeoff wasn't as drastic.

[r.coplen]

For more pictures on building a SparrowHawk go to SparrowHawk build and Testing III

[birdy]

Hmmmmmmmm...... I must be do'n sumth'n wrong again. :D
With the 28' extr alum blades :) on the 914 RAF :) ,I have to start prerotating with 1600 eng rpm[bloody Rotax :mad: .]The clutch stops slipping with the blades @ 80-100 rpm.It will spin up to @180rpm,eng at 2500rpm with me foot on the brakes,then I open the throttle and hold the prerotater on up to @280-300 rotor rpm and am off the ground inside 200'. :D Once,when the clutch on the prerotor was stuffed,I could only get 130 rotor rpm,but with very little room to git off the ground I had to give it full power at that,and they never flapped.[starting from 130 rpm and hitting full power I was still off inside 300']

The ferel is a compleatly different story. :D :D