Night/Day Cross Country Dual instruction for free

[Paul Salmon, MD]

I fly a Magni back and forth to work and I hate to have an empty seat!! So here is the deal. I fly from CGI to K02 (Home field of the world famous Greg Gremminger), approximately 47 miles each way. Half the time at night and half during daylight hours. I would be willing to offer instruction during these flights for free. IS THIS ANOTHER PERRYVILLE BASED SCAM????? NO, IT IS NOT A SCAM. (I personally don't think Sonnie Chamberlain's pursuits are a scam either by the way, and wish him well) So why am I doing this you ask? I am simply offering to help people out, like people have helped me out in the past. (Tim Chick, Harry Sieckmann, David Holmes, Larry Barklage, Greg Gremminger to name just a few) If you are working toward your Private Pilot- Rotorcraft - Gyroplane Rating this is an opportunity for you to meet some or all of your Night Dual requirement. It hard to find Gyro-CFI's that love to fly at night, so this is your golden opportunity!! If you have an ultralight gyro that is "a little heavy" :spy: and you are thinking of getting your sport pilot rating so you can be "legal" then this may be your lucky day!!

Now let's clarify a few things-
1. I AM NOT TRYING TO DRUM UP NEW STUDENTS FOR MYSELF. I WORK 80-85 HOURS PER WEEK (HONEST!) AND THUS DON'T HAVE MUCH FREE TIME TO TRAIN STUDENTS. But these are flights that I am making anyway, so it doesn't require a lot of extra time on my part.

2. IF YOU GO WITH ME THEN YOU ARE GOING TO WORK AT IT SERIOUSLY, THIS WILL BE LOGGABLE DUAL INSTRUCTION, NOT A JOY RIDE. However if you just want to joy ride then I'll still take you, but I'm not going to sign it off as instruction.

3. I AM NOT PSYCHOTIC

4. I PREFER TO WORK WITH STUDENTS THAT ARE PURSUING A SPORT PILOT, COMMERCIAL OR PRIVATE RATING. Anything worth doing, is worth doing right. If you are trained to the level that permits you to pass your proficiency check or checkride then you have demonstrated that you meet a standard and are less likely to make a mistake due to a "knowledge deficit". This is not to say that there aren't ultralight pilots that are exceedingly skilled, confident and safe.

5. I AM NOT ASKING OR EXPECTING TO BE PAID. If you feel guilty about not paying for training then chip in for gas or buy me a burger, etc.

6. I AM NOT TRYING TO COMPETE WITH OTHER INSTRUCTORS BY "UNDERCUTTING" THEM. I am hoping to build interest in flying rotorcraft and this should benefit other instructors by bringing in new students to the sport.


If anyone is interested let me know!!

[route66]

WOW! What an awesome deal! I hope somebody in your area takes advantage of your generous offer. I’ve seen so many comments that I can’t afford to take instruction and can do this on my own, you answered their prayers. I hope you get many takers. If not I might try to plan a few weeks to visit MO. Best of luck and I really appreciate your commitment to our gyro community. Thanks.

[CLS447]

That is very generous of you ! I wished that I could get there with you !

[dragonflyerthom]

Very generous offer Doc. Someone needing time for the Sport Pilot rating will jump on this.

Hey Doc What do you do when it rains? I would love to hear you talk about night flying. Seem lots of Gyro pilots and CFIs don't like to fly a gyro at night. I know I flew my FW at night alot. Is there much difference?


Thom

[Paul Salmon, MD]

Most rotorwing flights occur at a relatively low altitude compared to fixed wing (although they don't have to) and the glide ratio is less than most fixed wings, sometimes considerably less. So when the engine quits you generally have a short period of time before your "back on the earth". If you are not within gliding distance of a suitable landing area, it may be a pretty risky event. (Autorotation into trees, mountainous terrain, buildings, a river, etc) When I started flying with an EMS helo service, I noticed that one of the pilots in particular (Jim Prince) would be scanning the ground outside the cabin as much as he was scanning the instruments and the sky. So I wondering what the hell is he looking for - so I asked him. His reply was "this damn thing is likely to quit about anytime and I want have a place picked out to land" I thought he was joking- he wasn't. Having been shot down in Vietnam evidently made an impression on him concerning your chances of falling out of the sky on a moments notice. While flying at night, altitude is your friend. It gives you more options for suitable landing areas. During the flood of 1993, we put life jackets on board the LongRanger so we would comply with the FAR requiring life jackets if you are over water and unable to glide to the shore/land. (Required on Commercial Operations) A few of the pilots would take a direct path from Cape to St. Louis which would put us directly over parts of the flood plain, which at that time was 1-3 miles wide. (I usually threatened to poke a hole in their life jackets if we lost the turbine) Other guys would deviate a bit around the water to allow an emergency landing on dry ground. Deviating only added a few minutes to the flight, but reduced the overall risk exponentially. When flying at night in the "Bootheel" of Missouri even with 3 miles visibility you sometimes are essentially IFR. On a cloudy, moonless night over open farm fields you may lose all visual references due to the fact that there may be no lights on the ground for several miles from your position. Remember, you may be legal with a 1,000 foot ceiling, but you can see that if you are that low to the ground and suddenly find yourself effectively in IFR conditions, it can be risky. In this situation your better choice is a slight deviation from course to follow Interstate 55 or other major roads which provides a visual reference continuously, as well as a suitable landing area in case of an engine out. About 1992 our EMS service had a forced landing due to engine failure, where would you guess that they landed? You guessed it - on Interstate 55, actually the grass next to the Interstate. The pilot got a chip light and landed the aircraft under power, moments after landing the turbine quit. Had he waited a little longer he would have had to autorotate in "Heavy". Landing under power is always preferably to waiting until the engine quits completely!! When I fly to work at night, I follow Interstate 55 for about 85% of the trip. On the remaining areas of the flight I am familiar with the locations of large fields along the route which would provide fairly suitable areas for landing. This doesn't bring my risk of landing on an unsuitable area to zero, but it certainly minimizes it. At 04:00 in the morning there is minimal traffic on the Interstate, if I lost the engine, I would land in the same direction as the traffic, keep the speed up at touchdown and roll off on to the shoulder. I have actually practiced this on the runway during simulated emergency landings to see how much speed it takes to be able to roll a sufficient distance to reach the shoulder. (It might suprise you) If there is traffic on the Interstate, I would land in the grass in between the lanes.

[Harry_S.]

Dr. Paul;

The last 8 lines of your #5 post above impressed me.

All gyro pilots should have somewhat similar plans, for when the *unexpected* does happen.

And I like the way you even *practice* the approach to landing, when conditions allow you to. Great post.


Cheers :)

[Paul Salmon, MD]

Nobody wants to fly at night??

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

What instruments do you have in your gyro for flying IFR?

Or to be more specific to maintain controlled flight when you lose visual reference.

Chuck E.

[Rehan K.Janjua]

Thank You Dr Paul Salmon.

This is one great offer which no one could decline.
Very generous and kind of you.

I wish i was there.

Best Regards.
Rehan

[Paul Salmon, MD]

The Magni is equipped with a Garmin 496 which features a screen with an HSI and turn and bank indicator that are lightning fast. But again, with a little planning you can avoid the situation in the first place. The 496 includes Nexrad, winds aloft, metars, tafs and a multitude of information to help you along the way.

[OzyRuss]

Paul.........mate

Your user shows as "Paul Salmon MD"

why the "MD" bit, here on a gyro forum...........ok, so you are a medical guy, but why this MD stuff.

I bet there are some "highly skilled" others within this group that don't fly their flag this way. Others that have achieved wundrous business acolades, none of who bother to do a similar thing as yourself.

No disrespect intended...........just curious............why.

[TJMay]

As a newbie, I'd be interested if the logistics workled. But not only is my distance from you an issue, what do I do while you're working?

[Harry_S.]

Nobody wants to fly at night??




I DOOOooooo!!



Cheers :)

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

Paul, have you ever tried to fly in cloud for any length of time using a Garmin 496 GPS as your only attitude reference?

Remember GPS "only" generated attitude data has some signifigant lag issues.

And I'm sure that somewhere in your training the issue of lag in response to attitude changes can result in some real exciting PIO.

[PW_Plack]

Chuck,

You've flown places, and under circumstances, that most of us will never experience, so I'm really interested in your perspective on this.

Paul, have you ever tried to fly in cloud for any length of time using a Garmin 496 GPS as your only attitude reference?

Chuck, he's talking about flying at night. Are you equating night VFR with flying in clouds?

During the summer months, there have been hazy, but VFR-legal afternoons when I struggled to make out visual waypoints. There have also been enjoyable evening flights where I could see airport beacons and destination city lights 50 miles out. A small gyroplane with the proper lights becomes just as visible as any other aircraft at night, a safety advantage.

My long gyroplane cross-country with my instructor was done in October last year, starting at about 10pm, with a compass and a yaw string. It's my all-time favorite flight to date.

I understand why some people fear the prospect of making an emergency landing at night, or just don't trust certain engines to begin with, but what is it about night flying, over the part of the country where he commutes, that's analogous to flying in clouds?

[Harry_S.]

I understand why some people fear the prospect of making an emergency landing at night, or just don't trust certain engines to begin with, but what is it about night flying, over the part of the country where he commutes, that's analogous to flying in clouds?




Thank you, Paul.

To most of us, it's a logical assumption that Dr. Paul is flying VFR in his GYROPLANE.

So, with using logicality, there is no analogy, in this instance.


Cheers :)

[Paul Salmon, MD]

In post #5 of this thread I discussed small deviations of course over certain areas that allow for keeping good visual reference with the ground at night in areas of sparse ground lighting such as open farm fields. The point of that is to help prevent your loss of ground references which would necessitate transitioning to instruments in the first place. Again, with a little planning you can usually avoid getting yourself into that situation in the first place. I don't endorse flying IFR in any aircraft that is not equipped properly. Having said that the ability to have a simulated HSI and bank indicator on the GPS are an asset. (I plan to fly the rest of my life and never have to depend on them.) I have flown from CGI to SIK (25 miles) with my son in the back seat functioning as my safety pilot (he has his gyro rating) with reference only to the GPS, airspeed indicator and altimeter. I was probably more accurate flying on that trip than looking out the window and being lazy holding my course line. I did this to prove to myself the utility of the GPS in Inadvertent IMC/IFR. BUT!!!!!! I DO NOT RECOMMEND FLYING INTO IFR CONDITIONS IN AN AIRCRAFT THAT IS NOT IFR RATED. My advice was meant to keep people from doing just that with a little forethought and planning. I am aware of the limitations of the GPS, unfortunately it may be inaccurate when you need it the most (when convective activity is in the area). This is why it is important to keep your aircraft in trim for level flight in cruise so that any deviation in pitch will be small if you lose ground reference momentarily. When pursuiing an instrument rating you practice simulated instrument failures, certainly the same could be practiced in a 2 place gyro with a safety pilot in VFR conditions.
As far as the user name, I had to pick something, so I used the same username that I use for almost everything.(no disrespect taken, I think it is a valid question) Additionally, I think it is a plus for people to know something about someone if they are giving them advice. I personally would like to see more on everyones username or profile that reflects their background and expertise.
If you drive up to CGI to get some dual there are several things you could do to occupy your time while I'm at work, particularly if you come with a friend, wife etc. Send me a private message with your e-mail and we can discuss it further.

[Fragmaster]

Dr Paul I only wish I was a few states closer and aplaud your offer. I use my earlier profesion in my username as I was in Explosive Ordnance Disposal.

Again, I wish I were closer and could take you up on your offer. It is most generous.

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

Paul, my question was not meant to criticize your flying nor your decision making ability to do same.

I was curious about your saying that the gyro only has a Garmin 496 as reference for attitude control in the event you lost visual reference to the ground at night.

Harry, why do you have to attack almost every comment I make here on this forum?

Night VFR can quickly become IMC no matter where you are flying, many new pilots read this forum and could easily get the impression that night VFR is guaranteed to remain VFR, nothing could be further from the truth and every pilot should be cautious and have a safe out when flying at night.

Back to Paul and his night flying, once again I was just curious as to how your machine is equipped and was not trying to insult you.

Chuck E.

[Paul Salmon, MD]

No insult taken.

[gyrofly]

Because of the normally low operating altitudes,sink rate,glide ratio or whatever in a gyro along with the lack of redundancy and no real way to have a good BRS. It has to be extremely risky to fly at night in a gyro, even a Magni.
If a failure were to occour just about anywhere along the flight path,I think chances would be low to survive not being able to see where you are landing/crashing. I would think Pauls regular route being "regular" and being 85% over the interstate does increase his odds greatly though.
Guess one would not want to make virgin flights at night in a gyro. (that is...not unless they were over 18)...Sorry...bad joke....Sorry...

[gyroplanes]

Dr. Paul,
It's a very nice thing that you are offering. All some people here offer to the gyro community, is unasked for advice.

It makes you wonder how all the old Cub, Aeronca, Taylorcraft, etc. pilots survived flying at night with very basic instruments?

Gyrofly,
I'd rather fly a gyro with a high sink rate and no forward speed into a dark field at night, than a fixed wing with an approach speed of 85 mph. Regarding the BRS. Would you deploy one if you encountered IMC?

WWI era pilots used to descend through cloud layers by intentionally putting the aircraft into a spin. I'd much rather put my gyro into a slow descent and emerge from a cloud, than to pop out in a spin.

McCulloch J-2s and A&S 18s, were both certified for night flight without any gyro instruments.

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

" It's a very nice thing that you are offering. All some people here offer to the gyro community, is unasked for advice."

Interesting comment gyroplanes, so why don't you demand that only those who meet your views about the art of flying be allowed to comment?

[Paul Salmon, MD]

I am much more comfortable flying my gyro at night than I am flying my cessna 182 at night. If I lose an engine, I can accomplish a landing in the Magni a much smaller area than would ever be possible in the Cessna. I have flown a Citabria at night over mountainous terrain in Arizona and New Mexico without the aid of an artificial horizon. That of course was in solid VFR conditions, I was usually within gliding distance of the Interstate 40 which left me an out. Again, preflight planning and knowledge of the area which you are flying over can limit your risk. Altitude is your friend at night, I generally will climb to the highest altitude that is practical, based on cloud bases and winds, etc. I usually will flight follow with ATC in case there is a problem. I once lost the electical system in the Citabria while just east of Albuquerque, NM. I had a flashlight, it was a clear night with unlimited visibility. I could not get the breakers to reset, so I notified ATC of my situation, continued on to Santa Rosa, NM made a high approach to final and landed there. After descending below 6,000 msl I lost contact with Albuquerque Center (as expected due to terrain) so I had an American Airlines Captain relay to ATC that I was on the ground without incident. Once on the ground the breakers would reset (figure that one out!) I decided to spend the night at Santa Rosa. There is a truck stop about 1/2 mile from the airport (which is unattended) so I walked down to it and called the wife to let her know my status and get a bite to eat. I slept on the Tarmac (literally on the Pavement) It was a cloudless night and perfect temperature.(August) Interestingly enough, about 2 am an animal of some sort came up to me and was sniffing in my ear!! Talk about waking up fast!! I jumped up and took off running in one direction, it made some sort of screaming noise and took off the other direction. (maybe I was the one making the screaming noise) After that I slept in the plane, it was an interesting trip to say the least.

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

Paul I was not suggesting that night VFR was not doable, I was curious about what you had for attitude reference in the hopefully unlikely event you lost visual contact.

Flying without gyro attitude instruments is not black magic, when I received my initial IFR training in the mid fifties we had to demonstrate not only the ability to fly in stable flight but to be able to recover from unusual attitudes in a Cessna 140 with only the airspeed, turn and bank and altimiter in the instrument panel. Then we progressed to actual IFR flying with attitude instruments and the airways were radio range legs.

My last IFR flight was in a glass panel Boeing 767-300ER....

I hope you understand my comments come from nothing more than curiousity and not to suggest what you are doing is wrong or unmanageable safety wise.

By the way if I were to have to do an engine out black hole glide and landing I would rather be in a gyro than Boeing 767. :hail:

[Heron]

Dr. Paul
Did you report the situation on post #24 in the AOPA magazine?
I read something similar there, don´t remember many details though.
thanks
Heron

[gyrofly]

Gyrofly,
I'd rather fly a gyro with a high sink rate and no forward speed into a dark field at night, than a fixed wing with an approach speed of 85 mph. Regarding the BRS. Would you deploy one if you encountered IMC?

Being a layman and on second thought I suppose if a crash was imminent it would be best to hit whatever at the slower or most controllable speed. Not sure what IMC is ...If I had to guess...I would say ...something meteorological conditions ......like maby heavy fog???
If the aircraft was not controllable or if was a very dark night (black hole landing) engine out...and was over say ...dense forest, I probably would deploy the BRS. Would that not be better than flying into trees?

[PW_Plack]

gyrofly,

IMC means "instrument meteorological conditions".

If you find yourself in clouds and can't see, and decide your best hope is a vertical descent to the surface, BRS and the rotor will both allow you to descend at about the same rate. There are two diferences I can see...

(1) If you get to 200 feet and suddenly can see, the rotor leaves you the option of resuming controlled flight to the ground. BRS does not.

(2) BRS will require an unusual attitude until the rotor stops, then a second step to turn right-side up. If you're lower than you think, that means you could land on your side or inverted. A vertical descent with the rotor has a better chance of allowing you to land on the main gear.

If you can see when you reach 50 feet, there might even be time to note ground speed and direction, and adjust with quick control inputs.

I cannot imagine a circumstance in which I'd want to interrupt a working rotor to deploy a BRS.

[Heron]

I think BRS should be used only when rotor integrity has been lost or compromised.
If you have to land over trees pick a big one, land on the cannopy with no roll and watch for those limbs.
Wires should have some kind of glow in the dark on them, but that will cost more . . .
Air corridors should have that safety feature to help in case.
thanks
Heron

[NoWingsAttached]

I will be taking you up on your night flight offer, Doc. Thanks, kindly. I'll PM and let you know when. I'll have to plan it properly.

Greg

[Harry_S.]

I will be taking you up on your night flight offer, Doc. Thanks, kindly. I'll PM and let you know when. I'll have to plan it properly.

Greg



I wish it were ME.;)


Cheers :)

[ventana7]

Paul,

I applaud your forethought and practice on how you would land on a road.

I have one suggestion to add to your list - leveling the rotor quickly.

I had to do a road landing in Jacksonville Florida about 1/4 mile from the airport on takeoff and having only reached about 350' AGL.

I fit in a tiny hole about 100' long between rush hour traffic cars going about 45 mph. I had planned to carry lots of extra airspeed and flare at 15' so that the car I was in front of could see me and slow down. My biggest fear was landing OK then getting rear ended- Carrying the extra speed and flaring at there windshield level worked fine as everyone behind me stopped without hitting me or each other.

One thing I had also thought ahead about was pedestrians running up to the machine without thinking about the rotor-- You know this problem from EMS flying I'm sure. My emergency list included getting the stick forward and leveling the blade as soon as I was down-- It was a good thing I did this as about 5 seconds after touchdown a guy was at my side. He was driving and empty school bus going the opposite way from the direction I was landing and saw my impending landing- stopped and was just on the otherside of the median ditch allowing him to be at my side in seconds.

Fortunately all was OK with he and us.

And like you I would much prefer an engine out in a gyro to a fixed wing where my landing speed was 50 knots or so requiring a long stopping distance.

:yo:

[Paul Salmon, MD]

Hey everybody,
I've been flying the Magni back and forth to work, and it has been COLD!! You just have to dress for it. So far no takers on the free flight time???????? Hope to finish up on my Helo CFI over the next few months. Work keeps getting in the way of my flying!!!!

[Paul Salmon, MD]

Well, since nobody took me up on my offer of flight training for free, how about I charge $500.00 per hour, any takers yet?? :noidea:

[dragonflyerthom]

Doc
I would say that alot of the guys that can or would take you up on you offer feel that it is the wrong time of year. They are probably like me and need the warmth of spring or summer to do this. Still a great offer for the new pilot. I live relatively close to you and will be finishing my Sport Pilot soon. I plan on going on to CFI eventually so I just might load my gyro up this summer and come see ya. If the offer still stands. You have made this almost too good to be true.

[barnstorm2]

Paul,

I don't need the hours but if I lived near I would be taking some rides with you.