RAF Specific; Training & Flying Experiences.

[Harry_S.]

Being as we have several new RAF owners approaching dual training, I thought this would be an appropriate place for them to share with their other RAF Pilots.. Also...

This is an invite for all you other RAF pilots to come in here and let's hear of your RAF experiences...good or, I can't believe it...not so good.:welcome:

I believe we would like to hear of old, new and add on ratings, as well.


Cheers :)

[asmuzsr]

Ok I'll just jump in. When finishing up your wiring, and this really applies to any aircraft, make sure all wires are tied down. Case in point. Was taking a friend up for his first gyro ride. After landing and stopping on the taxiway, waiting for the blades to stop, I did an ignition check. Lo and behold the factory ignition had died. Fortunately a week or 2 before I had installed a second ignition and it saved the day. Upon getting back to the hangar I found out that the problem was intermitent. Figured the first place to start was the coil pack. So I took it off and found one of the 3 wires coming out of the bottom had broken off. Looking at the wires, it was evident that if I had secured them they would not have flapped in the wind and caused the wire to break. New coil pack and tied the wires down and no more trouble. Couldn't believe I had left that set of wires loose. I was always tying wires down the whole time I was building her.
So, check your wires.

[Vance]

Hello Harry,

I don’t know if this is what you had in mind for this thread so I hope I am not hijacking it.

I had a wonderful training experience with Jim Logan at Mentone in 2005. I felt very comfortable with the condition of the aircraft. We were close to my wind limit of 15 knots and it was a gusting cross wind.

Pre-rotation went well and take off and climb out was brisk. I spend too much time inside and I found myself chasing level with a steady oscillation. I relaxed my grip and the ship settled down fairly quickly.

Jim’s Raf was quieter, smoother and more powerful than the other RAF I have flown. . The controls had a more elegant feel. This gave me a wonderful feeling of freedom from the mechanical complexities and a nice connection with the joy of flight. I particularly enjoyed the response to peddle inputs. The rudder seemed to have less authority than I was used to with either the SparrowHawks or the AAI modified RAFs that I have flown. The aircraft also seemed more pitch sensitive and airspeed sensitive.

I am used to a more formal hand off of the aircraft and I found myself wondering who was in control. I sniveled about this and it got us into trouble latter in the flight.

We flew to another airport with a direct cross and I was not comfortable with stop and goes. I felt it was over my personal limits. I have a low fear threshold. We flew around for a while and I got better at not over controlling the aircraft.

I had explained to Jim my limitations as to depth perception and my lack of experience with RAFs but he allowed me to land at Mentone. I liked the way it handled dropping over the trees and it was easy to keep aligned with the runway. I flew the aircraft into the ground at about 60 miles per hour before he took it back from me. I did better the second time around, but I still lacked style. The proper timing and speed of the flair often eludes me.

Thank you, Vance

[skier]

I took a few lessons with Jim Logan this past summer. All I can say is that it's the most fun thing I have flown. The landings were almost no roll. Jim is a great guy. I went up to Long Island expecting to be there for just an hour flight, and ended up being there for an hour preflight (I had a bunch of questions), an hour flight, and around two hours of just talking. It took me a while to get used to there being no doors on the machiene, but the flights I took were a lot of fun.

[Harry_S.]

Good point Tony.

I'm a bit of a stickler for keeping things in line...except for my recent episode with my radiator cap.:boink:

I have heard of coil wires breaking off, due to not being properly secured.

We welcome more of your experiences with the RAF. Thank you.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vance, that's exactly what we want to hear...the RAF experiences.

I presume you to be a perfectionist in whatever you undertake, and you will be close with additional RAF/SH flight time. These S/S lead sleds require more *attention* if you will, than the lighter tandem machines...IMO.

With Jim Logan, you were flying, arguably, the most powerful S/S in the world, and it don't have an HS :eek: altho, now he does have the stabilator. Jim would probably say you did real good, considering your experience level.

May I comment on your line above about "a more formal hand off of the aircraft"...As I was taking an instructional flight in an RAF, way back in '96...I too, felt the instructor on the controls. I told him to not pressure the controls, that if I was approaching trouble, get me off the controls and take over, otherwise, let me fly the machine, as I want to feel it out. After all, I did have a Commercial Gyroplane Rating.

We talked later and he said that he was used to *no experienced* students. No problem, we must communicate...right?!

I understand your visual problem Vance and may I say...you will persevere.;)


Cheers :)

[paulp]

Another try on posting pics-Here's a view of an approach to 16 @KGOK

[Aussie_Paul]

Hello Harry,

I don’t know if this is what you had in mind for this thread so I hope I am not hijacking it.

I had a wonderful training experience with Jim Logan at Mentone in 2005. I felt very comfortable with the condition of the aircraft. We were close to my wind limit of 15 knots and it was a gusting cross wind.

Pre-rotation went well and take off and climb out was brisk. I spend too much time inside and I found myself chasing level with a steady oscillation. I relaxed my grip and the ship settled down fairly quickly.

Jim’s Raf was quieter, smoother and more powerful than the other RAF I have flown. . The controls had a more elegant feel. This gave me a wonderful feeling of freedom from the mechanical complexities and a nice connection with the joy of flight. I particularly enjoyed the response to peddle inputs. The rudder seemed to have less authority than I was used to with either the SparrowHawks or the AAI modified RAFs that I have flown. The aircraft also seemed more pitch sensitive and airspeed sensitive.

I am used to a more formal hand off of the aircraft and I found myself wondering who was in control. I sniveled about this and it got us into trouble latter in the flight.

We flew to another airport with a direct cross and I was not comfortable with stop and goes. I felt it was over my personal limits. I have a low fear threshold. We flew around for a while and I got better at not over controlling the aircraft.

I had explained to Jim my limitations as to depth perception and my lack of experience with RAFs but he allowed me to land at Mentone. I liked the way it handled dropping over the trees and it was easy to keep aligned with the runway. I flew the aircraft into the ground at about 60 miles per hour before he took it back from me. I did better the second time around, but I still lacked style. The proper timing and speed of the flair often eludes me.

Thank you, Vance

A good honest story Vance. Gyros/aircraft should not behave that way unless they are an aerobatic aircraft with minimum stability built in to allow them to do their job.

I am finishing training a guy in a Raf with our h/stab and the Raf stabiliator, and I will never train again in a Raf that has not had the drop keel mods done.

I have spent over 20 hours in thbs aircraft during the last 10 days and I am about to write my experiences with the stabilator. I need some expert help to
find out aerodynamically the things that it does, and I am at a loss to explain, but that is for tonight.

Aussie Paul. :)

[Vance]

Hello Harry,

In my Robinson helicopter training my instructor would say “I have the aircraft” or if I felt frightened I would say “you have the aircraft” and he would respond “I have the aircraft”. I liked this formality.

My Bell 47 training was even more formal.

My Hiller training was more like Jim Logan’s but the 360 was very forgiving and almost truck like in its response.

Terry at AAI taught me to call out when I reached 500 feet agl and “temperature and pressures in the green” before I would turn cross wind. I felt a little lost without this formality and I was not sure who was flying.

Jim Mayfield would stay off the controls entirely until we were back at the hanger and then he would say that “we cheated death once again.”

My Stearman instructor was very rigid calling out every change of attitude and constantly identifying the location of other aircraft. She would request an action and I would repeat her command before I took the action. All turns were by the compass and in degrees of bank. She stayed completely off the controls except when we were landing.

I was just not used to Jim Logan’s style; it wasn’t better or worse, just different. When he stayed off the controls I got us into real trouble

Hello Paul,

I am afraid you misunderstood me. I was the one that caused the pitch instability and once I learned to loosen up and not tell the aircraft to rock the aircraft stopped rocking. I was out of sync with the aircraft and over controlling.

It seemed to fly well although a sudden change in power would induce more of a pitch change than I was used to. It had a lot more power than I was used to so I am sure this was part of my perceived challenge.

Thank you, Vance

[asmuzsr]

Thanks Harry
But that's all I remember right now. I foolishly sold her and built a 2 place plane similar to a Challenger. Had 130hour on the BunnyHugger before I sold it to Randy Coplen.
I do have the plane for sale and hopefully will be able to start on another RAF soon.
Oh just remembered an opps.
Had jsut finished an inspection, part of which involved regreasing the pre-rotator drive cable. Will guess I didn't get the outer housing secreued right at the bottom. How did I find out, was taking a youngster for a Young Eagles flight and as I started to pre-rotate I saw this black snake fly past on the rightknew just what it was. Shut down and picked it up. Boy talk about embarassing. Thing is it held up to 4 or 5 starts. Again my fault, but then most accidents are the pilots fault.
Can say I had one of John Snyder's trim tabs on the rudder. Was Very nice to have. You could fly with your feet on the floor. Never tried it with the doors on. Never flew if it got cold enough to need them.
Only time I flew to Bensen days was 2002. I left early in the morning right after work. Had a real nice light down from Clearwater. Flew past the Skyway bridge, that's a sight. 1000' at the top.
Well after awhile the winds were coming up a bit so I decidied I'd better head back. (Puls I needed sleep). Well I was flying along at 500' smelling the farmers burning weeds, and checked my ground speed from my gps to my airspeed. I was cruising 85mph as with a gs of 45! No wonder it was taking so long! Was a long ride across the mouth of Tampa Bay.
Well lunch time.
Oh one nice thing. Since my first RAF met with an untimely demise Randy wa good enough to let me get back my original tail number, 26AV. Can't waitin to use that again.

[asmuzsr]

By the way Harry, not to change the subject, we need to get together. I need an RAF fix.

[GyroRon]

Vance, I second the kudos for Jim and his machine. I have flown in only a few RAFS and Jims is the only one I flew without a horizontal stab, either Jim and I both just have the " knack " and were able to fly without one and not have a loose feel in pitch, or his machine is just not as bad as we tend to think a Stock RAF would be.

His machine was quiet, smooth, and had the least amount of heavy lead sled feel of all the big cabin gyros I have flown in.

Hate to say it, but I have taken a ride in a Sparrowhawk and the stick forces in that machine were so high I don't think I would ever want one. It really felt heavy in the air and with the high stick forces I have trouble finding how someone could have the same kind of fun with it as we have with our lighter single seat machines. I came away from my flight in the Sparrowhawk thinking I would rather have a airplane...........

[Gary_in_Orygun]

Well Harry, your request brought back some memories. My first ride/lesson in an RAF was at Oshkosh/Fondulac, WI with Doffin F. I wanted more than a demo ride. I asked him to do an hour flight. That was when I decided I could do this.

My next 11+ hours were with Ron Menzie. That was one of the most enjoyable flight-lesson experiences I ever had in all my aviating. Ron was a great host and instructor. I got to his hangar/home while he was away, but he told me where to find the key and to let myself in. He had some material for me to read and some videos for me to watch while I waited for him to arrive.

I never remember being more relaxed in a training situation. Ron only did 50-minute sessions at a time, which worked great for me not to get too saturated. Since he had another student there at the same time, I could watch the other guy fly and let my lesson sink in while watching. One time I even took a nap in one of Ron's big comfy chairs while waiting for my turn to fly.

In between lessons I could read or watch a video or walk around the airport or inspect the other RAF that came in later in the week. We never really had a set time to fly. Since me and the other student were there for a couple days, it was like: "Hey Gary, lets go fly." We only scheduled when to arrive at the airport. Then it was just "hang out" and fly when we felt like it and when the weather let us. It was a great flying vacation.

[Harry_S.]

A real nice post, Gary.:humble:

Thank you.


Cheers :)

[mskup]

I hope this will be in the right area.iwas wondering if anyone has flown the GBA modified RAF? Iwas scheduled to fly the Sparrowhawk in 10 days but it sold. GBA of Nashville will be giving me my 1st instructions in gyros and I was wondering if there is a big difference between the two? Any advice or comments would be greatly appricated.

[LARRYEBOYER]

QUICK QUESTION TO AUSSIE pAUL. dO YOU KNOW THE MAST NUMBER SETTING THAT THE GUYS that have the keel mod ARE USING IN YOUR PART OF THE WORLD? i HAD AN OBSERVER THAT SAID MY MACHINE FLIES WITH THE NOSE WHEEL HIGHER THAN THE KEEL. i AM IN THE MOST FORWARD POSITION#4. Sorry for the big letters.
We moved it to the # 3 position, but I have not flown it yet.

[Vance]

Hello Mark,

I have trained in several different AAI modified RAFs and in my opinion and with my limited experience with different autogiros, I felt it flew very well. I liked the rudder action better on the SparrowHawk, and the big cabin is nice. Otherwise they have been particularly enjoyable aircraft. See above for my impressions of Jim Logan’s RAF.

Thank you, Vance

[Aussie_Paul]

Well Harry, your request brought back some memories. My first ride/lesson in an RAF was at Oshkosh/Fondulac, WI with Doffin F. I wanted more than a demo ride. I asked him to do an hour flight. That was when I decided I could do this.

My next 11+ hours were with Ron Menzie. That was one of the most enjoyable flight-lesson experiences I ever had in all my aviating. Ron was a great host and instructor. I got to his hangar/home while he was away, but he told me where to find the key and to let myself in. He had some material for me to read and some videos for me to watch while I waited for him to arrive.

I never remember being more relaxed in a training situation. Ron only did 50-minute sessions at a time, which worked great for me not to get too saturated. Since he had another student there at the same time, I could watch the other guy fly and let my lesson sink in while watching. One time I even took a nap in one of Ron's big comfy chairs while waiting for my turn to fly.

In between lessons I could read or watch a video or walk around the airport or inspect the other RAF that came in later in the week. We never really had a set time to fly. Since me and the other student were there for a couple days, it was like: "Hey Gary, lets go fly." We only scheduled when to arrive at the airport. Then it was just "hang out" and fly when we felt like it and when the weather let us. It was a great flying vacation.

Now that is productivity if ever I saw it. Great stuff Ron Menzies.

Training is serious business BUT it must be mostly enjoyable and also the student must feel comfortable in the enviornment between flights.

Two students operating at the same time is a little tougher on the instructor BUT the productivitry is soo much better for both students.

My 2 cents worth. :lalala:

Aussie Paul. :)

[birdy]

My first fly ina RAF was sumthn i'll never forget.
The bloke i aquired the wasa off didnt have much experiance, and was taught by his instructer [ who will remain nameless;)] a very different landing approch than i'm used to.
After a wobbly and long TO roll, we climbed to 700'[ 500' higher than my personal limit] and i asked to take over.
The stick felt heavy tho the machine didnt feel as heavy as i'd expected.
After a bit of flyn round i said," rito, if you land it without scratchn it, i'll buy it".
To my supprise, he did a tipical FW approch, very shallow and fast.
See'n as it was still his machine i didnt say anythn, but as we neared the ground we were still at 60 odd mph and power still on and i was startn to get nervous.
I braced meself for the ground contact and all sorts of bad visions were flashn through my mind.
The contact ended up soft, but still very fast, and with the short wheel base of the RAF and the gusting Xwind, the resulting roll was very unnerving.
He wasnt taught to wash off AS BEFORE touch down, the power was still on just below cruise and he didnt use the rotors asa break.
Needless to say, i near crapped meself.:)

After writing out the check and conferming new ownership, i sugested we go for a loop and ill demonstrate how a gyro SHOULD be landed.

I took off, climbed to 200' turned DW and lined up to land all within a half mile.As i cut power to idle at 200' and droped the nose i noticed he made for a grab on the stick and throttle, but i said,"just watch, and dont touch".
Decending steeper than he was used to, and lower than he was comfortable with, i could hear him thinkn," its just as well he's payed for it".
As it turned out, my first attempt at landing me old RAF was probably my best ever, coz he didnt feel the ground contact, and the roll was less than 3'.
He was probably thinking he shouldnt have sold it, coz the reason why he wanted to part with it was coz he THOUGHt it needed too much room to TO and land.
No dout if he was taught to fly it like a gyro in the first place, i'd never have had the oppertunity to buy my first 2 seater:)

[jjp77tex]

My experience with Ron (10hours) last month was OUTSTANDING !!! Got my RAF-2000 out and flew it for the first time this weekend. Not much in his training I did not use..as a result I am still here and my gyro is still in 1 piece..looking forward to another visit with him to finish up my SP license...Jack

[Aussie_Paul]

My first fly ina RAF was sumthn i'll never forget.
The bloke i aquired the wasa off didnt have much experiance, and was taught by his instructer [ who will remain nameless;)] a very different landing approch than i'm used to.
After a wobbly and long TO roll, we climbed to 700'[ 500' higher than my personal limit] and i asked to take over.
The stick felt heavy tho the machine didnt feel as heavy as i'd expected.
After a bit of flyn round i said," rito, if you land it without scratchn it, i'll buy it".
To my supprise, he did a tipical FW approch, very shallow and fast.
See'n as it was still his machine i didnt say anythn, but as we neared the ground we were still at 60 odd mph and power still on and i was startn to get nervous.
I braced meself for the ground contact and all sorts of bad visions were flashn through my mind.
The contact ended up soft, but still very fast, and with the short wheel base of the RAF and the gusting Xwind, the resulting roll was very unnerving.
He wasnt taught to wash off AS BEFORE touch down, the power was still on just below cruise and he didnt use the rotors asa break.
Needless to say, i near crapped meself.:)

After writing out the check and conferming new ownership, i sugested we go for a loop and ill demonstrate how a gyro SHOULD be landed.

I took off, climbed to 200' turned DW and lined up to land all within a half mile.As i cut power to idle at 200' and droped the nose i noticed he made for a grab on the stick and throttle, but i said,"just watch, and dont touch".
Decending steeper than he was used to, and lower than he was comfortable with, i could hear him thinkn," its just as well he's payed for it".
As it turned out, my first attempt at landing me old RAF was probably my best ever, coz he didnt feel the ground contact, and the roll was less than 3'.
He was probably thinking he shouldnt have sold it, coz the reason why he wanted to part with it was coz he THOUGHt it needed too much room to TO and land.
No dout if he was taught to fly it like a gyro in the first place, i'd never have had the oppertunity to buy my first 2 seater:)

Wrong Birdy, geez you talk some sh1t without facts sometimes.:rolleyes:

Wasn't the first time you landed a Raf it was in mine when you were down here on holidays and wanted a bfr, or was it a passenger endorsement or may be it was both?

Aussie Paul. :)

[Aussie_Paul]

If you are wondering about my litle outburst there.:sorry:

Birdy knows that I am the instructor who trained the guy!!! and likes to yank my chain.:violin: :violin: :violin: Pity he is sh1t poor at it and does not get the facts. :bored: :bored: :bored:

Aussie Paul. :)

[Harry_S.]

Birdy...Nice little story. We appreciate reading of others experiences.

I'm sure you have many more;



Paul...C'mon, relax why don'tcha. :)

Now...:focus: I'm sure you have many RAF experiences you can tell us, right?!

Try to keep 'em...not too long tho, huh?!:D



Cheers :)

[Harry_S.]

How 'bout some reports from our new pilots...Ron K...Wayne H...Jack R. and pilots with a bit of advance training and those going for a "Rating"...

We would like to hear from you. Tell us what's goin' on and how you're doing. Most importantly, how much you like it?!


Cheers :)

[rgraffeo]

Dolfin Fritts instructed me in the summer of 2000. He was building a RAF2000 for someone while I was there. I stayed 2 weeks at his field with a one week break in between. He went over my machine to see if it was assembled correctly & instructed me in my machine.

Since it was summer, we started flying about 6am & flew 1 hour sessions. We flew about 2 or 3 times before lunch & about 2 or 3 times until dark, depending on the weather. We would then discuss what we practiced between flying while he worked on the machine he was building. It was real educational for me to see him working on the machine as he told me about some things he learned over the years. We trained for a total of 25 hours dual, RAF paid for 10 hours.

2 years later Dolfin arranged for another instructor to fly with me so he could give me the add on rating for rotorcraft/gyroplane. At the time he was a designated examiner. He also helped me to install the stab on my RAF. Anytime I have a question about flying or maintenace one of the 1st folks I conatct is Dolfin.

[RonK]

OK Harry, since you asked, here goes.
I have just completed my training with Dofin. Was there for a total of three weeks over a month and a half. During that period my flying with him was like the last post. Several one hour flights, doing as much as we could during the day and several nite flights as well. I returned home with 75 hours on the engine, 40 hours, mostly dual, soloed, and working on getting a local CFI to give me my LSA endorsement. I have a SEL so OK to fly by myself now. I expect to get a gyto rating after doing the long cross country soon. I also have the repariman cert in hand. Dofin was GREAT, I would recomment him anytime. He had to be very patient with me as landings did not come easily. He and his wife and the guy that helps build at their facitlity are very nice folks.
I have added the Horz Stab of air command with out the extension, but almost all of my training was before that addition. I thought the differnce in flight was not worth it but had already built the darn thing so will use it, as it does help some. Pain to deal with during ground handling without the engine running.
I have been adding hours about every other day since then down here in cental eastern FL.
I would do it again the same way.
Regards,

[TJMay]

Ron,

Good to hear your experience with Dofin was so good. I start tomorrow, weather permitting.

He test flew my machine over the past two days and reported it handled well but tight.

You mentioned that your training in your machine was with HS off and then you put it on. Dofin gave me my choice on or off and after his reasoning, I chose off. I'll add it back later, I guess.

Tommy

[Harry_S.]

All right, OK...now we're gettin' somewhere.:flame:

We're glad you posted for us...Ron and Tom. Don't let it stop there now. I do believe there are other, new RAF pilots coming along, that are really interested in what your experiencing. Your words will not be wasted.

Tom, if you have the time, after your day's training session...could you post just a few words here as to your experience and your thoughts of what transpired?! I, for one would be interested.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wayne H. are you there? You're in training right now. If you have a few minutes...how's it going?!

Thom F. are you there? How's your situation right now?!

Tom H. is going for his Gyro Rating next week, I believe. Keep us posted ,Tom.


Any other RAF'ers out there...come on in here and let us others know what's goin' on. OK?!


Cheers :)

[RonK]

Hi,
Dofin's operation is in Brewton AL. small town, big airport layout with three separate runways forming a triangle. Only problems are 1. no motel locally, althought the one damaged during the hurricane is being fixed and may be completed shortly and 2. the Navy operates T34 training planes most weekdays. Dofin has an arrangement with them that works but it does make you wish for the weekends when they are gone.
Good Luck Tommy, it is fun and you should enjoy the training. I am still debating the use of the HS but still have it on.
Talked to a gyro CFI locally and looks like a test is pending. That will take care of the LSA ticket. Next to gyro rating on private. That may take a while to line up the right personal from the FAA.
Regards,

[RonK]

This is Brewton Airport from 500 feet on second solo flight.

[Harry_S.]

Boy, what a nice layout that is at Brewton.:D

Looks like lots of taxi time tho, if you HAVE to use the runway of *no choice* at times. I like that layout.

Return taxiways from the mid runway points, towards the center of the DELTA then towards the ramp and then crossing the lateral runway, might be an improvement?! But, that's just an opinion.

Thanks, Ron.


Cheers :)

[mskup]

I have just come back from about eight hours of instruction with Larry Banks in Cookville Tenn. in his AAI modified Raf. Wow what wonderfull experience. I loved the feel of the machine but i agree with Ron the controls are heavy but i like that. What a great way to begin my instruction in gyros with a true proffessional like Larry. his patience with this fixed wing pilot was great. If all gyro instructors are this professional this sport will grow rapidly.I loved the take-offs and did experience what flying behind the power curve is like. When Larry said I got he got it real quick, and brought the machine under control. Why anyone would want to learn to fly without instruction is beyond me. I am hooked!!

[Harry_S.]

Good Luck Tommy, it is fun and you should enjoy the training. I am still debating the use of the HS but still have it on.




IMO Ron...Why take it off? It will not detract from your machines performance in no way. In fact, it will improve performance as well as ease your work load.

When flying with doors attached and no HS with winglets, you're going to be tippy toeing on the rudder pedals.

When flying in windy/gusty conditions...with the HS, you'll breeze right on thru what would be upsetting reactions.

I experienced 90 hrs. in my STOCK machine before I installed the stab. I am sold on the addition of a stab and would not return to a stock configuration solely because of the improved performance.

One of the more experienced RAF'ers out there...Pat McNear would probably endorse what I just said. But...To each his own.


Cheers :)

[Harry_S.]

Mark;

Are you building or planning to obtain an RAF? I hope so.;)


Cheers :)

[mskup]

Harry as it stands now im going to look for a used one at a reasonable price and either do the AAI mod or look at Larry Boyers machine and consider his mod. Larry is very close to where i live and i have talked to him on occasion about his Raf.

[Aussie_Paul]

IMO Ron...Why take it off? It will not detract from your machines performance in no way. In fact, it will improve performance as well as ease your work load.

When flying with doors attached and no HS with winglets, you're going to be tippy toeing on the rudder pedals.

When flying in windy/gusty conditions...with the HS, you'll breeze right on thru what would be upsetting reactions.

I experienced 90 hrs. in my STOCK machine before I installed the stab. I am sold on the addition of a stab and would not return to a stock configuration solely because of the improved performance.

One of the more experienced RAF'ers out there...Pat McNear would probably endorse what I just said. But...To each his own.


Cheers :)


I second that Harry. I have several thousand hours in Rafs with and without stabs and with our dropped keel mods. A stab is a must, espcially one with tips if to be flown with the doors on in rough conditions. Our dropped keel mods are recomended for almost stability perfection. The AAI upgrade actually makes a Raf into a LTLM and is not as stable as the dropped keel version.

As I have said before the last Raf we did in NZ passed the fixed wing pitch stability tests.

Aussie Paul. :)

[Harry_S.]

At Wayne's request, I am posting these photos.

The light reflection on his paint does a job...don't it?!


Cheers :)

[TJMay]

All right, OK...now we're gettin' somewhere.

Tom, if you have the time, after your day's training session...could you post just a few words here as to your experience and your thoughts of what transpired?! I, for one would be interested.

Harry,

You asked so here it is. But, I'm not a man of few words!

Well, if you don't count the many weeks leading up to the decision first to explore gyroplanes, then the acquisition of my RAF 2000, and finally the weeks of renovation, my Big Adventure started Monday.

I left home early in the motorhome on my way to Brewton, AL to start training. The weather at home was awful, rain and wind but the weather in Brewton was much better according to the NOAA on the web. I even emailed my instructor in Brewton and he said we were good to go.

Upon my arrival, the rains started. It wasn't too hard and looked like it might clear. It did, around 2:00 pm. But, the wind was ferocious. Maybe not too much to fly in if you know what you're doing but far to much wind to begin training. I was obviously disappointed and Dofin must have seen the pout of the two-year old in me and said "lets go".

While he had flown this machine during it's renovation, I had not and was really anxious and excited to at least be able to fly in my own machine. We pushed her out of the hanger, did our pre-flight and cranked her up. She purred. I sat first seat, he was in the co-pilot's seat. We taxied out and down the taxiway towards the end of the runway. During the taxi, Dofin was explaining stuff right and left. There's so much to learn.

We taxied out to the end of the runway, announced our intentions to the rest of the world and began our pre-rotation. We then headed into the wind and pushed the throttle all the way forward. It lurched forward and within a few feet lifted off. I was flying in my own machine. WOW.

I had my feet lightly on the rudder pedals and my hand on the stick but he was in control. It was a good thing 'cause the wind at 100 feet was 25-30 mph and gusting. Dofin was calm as could be and I took my lead from him. If he was OK, so was I. At about 200 feet, the wind was fierce; we were being buffeted left, right, up and down. But, he calmly let go of the stick and said "see, it can almost fly itself."

I can't even imagine flying in those conditions by myself, ever, much less with some experience but he did prove to me that the machine is stable and can fly in conditions much worse than I ever will.

Today was no better so I packed up and left for home.

To be continued when the weather permits.

[Harry_S.]

Tom:

Golly...you have a knack for putting words to paper. It makes for good reading.

Let's hope the weather clears well enough for training. I can't wait. Stay tuned.

How far are you from Brewton?


Cheers :)

[TJMay]

About 90 miles.

I hope to get back and get started Friday. I'll write more once I get into training.

Tommy

[Harry_S.]

after my 40 hours i will apply for my condition inspection license, and do my cross country .



Wayne;

You can get your Repairman Certificate now. You don't have to wait till you fly off your 40 hrs.

Did the FSDO tell you to wait till you flew off the 40 hrs?


Cheers :)

[WHUBBS]

Harry, you are correct about getting the repairman cert. now, but i did not know that until yesterday. while i was putting my raf back together after the trip to SEARCY for training, two people walked up to my hangar, a lady and gentleman, they introduced themselves to me and it was the FAA lady that had given me my repairman cert for my air command about 2 years ago and her husband. after talking a few minutes i mentioned something about my lessons and the 40 hours and then coming to nashville tn. to see her and get the forms sent in. she said you do not have to wait until you have your 40 hours and she would sign the papers now if i had them with me , but they were at home and i said i would run and get them if they had time to wait. she replied well just call me and i will run over to your hangar and i was shocked, as i thought she would have to drive from Nashville, about 60 miles, but she said i live here in town, where you live, and i about fell over. she had just moved to smithville tn. where i live and will run over to my hangar anytime she is at home to finish up my paper work.
what a nice lady and that will save me another 120 miles of driving ; )

got my rotor back on today and about ready to start on my solo flying but will need to add my weight to the passenger side tomorrow and then ready to go.

[dragonflyerthom]

Congrats Wayne


Sandy is the one that rides with us RAF guys. Glad to see you so close to us here is Arkansas. Sorry that I missed ya during your training week. I talke to Ron Sunday night and said your ship is sweet. I still have to get some time with him to check my little bird out. He is soo busy with everyone else that I am having trouble gettin to see him. I will go there again next week to see about hang testing.

[LARRYEBOYER]

Paul is correct. The drop keel mod is the way to go for stability. Pitch issues are gone . The best part is that it is a relatively simple job. I would suggest that anyone that does the Boyer mod have the angles on the keel welded before you put the butterfly plates on. It should add better strength and as that first bend is where the real stress is, (right after the prop) be sure to watch that area, I see a weakness there on my design.

[Harry_S.]

she had just moved to smithville tn. where i live and will run over to my hangar anytime she is at home to finish up my paper work.





Wayne;

I wouldn't suggest giving her a kiss on the cheek, especially with her husband right there:D but, I would certainly send her a Christmas Card.;)

Keep us posted on your solo flying. Keep it safe.


Cheers :)

[Harry_S.]

Thom;

You need to shift into 2nd gear and catch up with Wayne, Ron and Tom.

Golly, it feels good to have a few more RAF's taking to the sky. Keep it safe, guys.:humble: ;)


Cheers :)

[Aussie_Paul]

If you do my personal stepped keel mod you don't cut the keel more than once, so the extra weight and strength problems do not exist.

Aussie Paul. :)

[WHUBBS]

Harry, that is a beautiful thought and i will send a card of thanks as soon as she sends in my papers. thought i would call her next week.

i talked to our local gyro instructor this week to warn him that i would be getting in contact with him for my x-country when the 40 hrs are over.

[TJMay]

I did get to Brewton on Friday and got a couple of hours in that afternoon and several more in on Saturday. After each flight, Dofin spent some time adjusting the pitch of the blades and after each effort, it seemed to fly smoother.

The first flight or two, I found myself clinching the stick way too hard. My movements were not smooth and way to much control input.

After the first few fligfhts, I began to relax a little and "feel" the stick, gripping it with just two fingerts. As I relaxed more and more, I felt like I was more in control and a lot smoother.

We did some 90 degree turns, 180's, 360's and S turns as well as many touch-and-go's.

I've got a ways to go but I loved every second and look forwd to more lessons this coming week.

Tommy

[Harry_S.]

Way to go, Tommy.

Keep us posted as you progress.

I see it didn't take you long to realize..."try to relax and enjoy the adventure"...it's easy enough for the more experienced pilot to say that, but I'm sure that as your hours of experience builds, so will your enjoyment.

Dofin seems to have the majic touch when it comes to adjusting rotor blades for a smoother ride.;)

Looking forward to your next posting.


Cheers :)

[StanFoster]

Harry: This has been a real good thread for the RAF guys. I have noticed something happening. More of the RAF pilots are talking about their flying. It used to be dampened quite a bit because of all the rhetoric that got started about the RAF. Can you imagine if all the guys/gals flying the RAF2000 would come out of the woodwork and post their stories? That would be a huge thread. You have at least got the door cracked open....and hopefully many more will chime in on their experiences as well.

That was one reason I posted so much while enjoyinrg the 235 hours in my RAF2000. I caught a little flack...but was just too stubborn to keep my exuberance hidden. I loved flying that RAF....and if I had to do it all over again...I would progress from each gyro I have flown and not do anything different.

Presently I really think I am going to stick with my SparrowHawk for a long time....and really get to know it.:)


Stan

[Harry_S.]

Harry: This has been a real good thread for the RAF guys. I have noticed something happening. More of the RAF pilots are talking about their flying. It used to be dampened quite a bit because of all the rhetoric that got started about the RAF. Can you imagine if all the guys/gals flying the RAF2000 would come out of the woodwork and post their stories? That would be a huge thread. You have at least got the door cracked open....and hopefully many more will chime in on their experiences as well.




Stan, I thank you for your post, as I'm sure all the other RAF'ers do, as well.

So far...it's been nice, clean and enjoyable hearing from others and especially from the pilots in training.

I for one, would like to see you post some of your RAF experiences. Maybe that would entice more of the many RAF pilots out there to post, also.

A nice appropriate pic with the post would fit in real good...I'm thinking of your flight over the big fire; some time back.:whoo:


Cheers :)

[StanFoster]

Harry: I will be glad to retell the fire story.

I had noticed some smoke on the horizon....and this was just what I needed for another "mission" for my RAF. Everyone knows how much I loved that machine ....and it gave me 235 hours of pleasure.

There was a small town 10 miles away that a warehouse caught fire. I flew up and took these pictures.

Stan

[WHUBBS]

just for the information, i have 17 hrs. on my raf todate and per Ron's instructions of doing a post flight check after each flight, i found one of my exhaust springs broke as soon as i got on the ground. fixed it today and ready to go again. just might go ahead and install the wheel pants and will post another photo of the finished product if i can talk MR. HARRY into putting them on the forum for me. i need to set down and learn to do this myself???

[StanFoster]

Heres some from flying with Pat Mcnear at Bensen days. Pat is the nicest guy...and I cant wait to go an get some more RAF hog spotting time with him.

You can see some wild hogs here...and some pictures of a huge dragline.

His low level flying is just what I do all the time up here in Illinois. When we were flying this year at Bensen days....I made a comment...."This is heaven on earth" and I meant it big time. He replied back with that ol smile of his..."It doesnt get any better than this"

We were both right.

Stan

[paulp]

Hey Wayne,

I lost one of my exhaust springs and thank God it didn't hit the prop. Anyway, both of mine are now saftey wired to make sure that if they break or come loose in the future, they hopefully won't do any damage.;)

[paulp]

Howdy all,

Well, today I finished the 2 day course for the LSA mechinacial inspection authorization and received my temporary certificate. I think that I am the first to receive this authorization for a gyroplane.

The course was taught by Marty Weaver CFII and Kelly Teague CFII-A&P AI.

It is specific to my RAF only but if I get another gyro, all I will need is an endorsement to get it transfered to another machine. Basically, it allows me to do the condition inspection on my ELSA. The neat thing about the ELSA cert on my machine is that if I transfer it to someone else, they can get the same mech insp auth. and do their own condition inspections.

It was a good course and Marty and Kelly are great guys and did an outstanding job on putting it together.:whoo:

[dragonflyerthom]

Paul

Do you have it registered as ELSA? Is your weight limit 1320?

Congrats.

Thom

[Aussie_Paul]

Paul

Do you have it registered as ELSA? Is your weight limit 1320?

Congrats.

Thom

The weight limit is designed at 1320 lbs Thom. It is not registered as ELSA at this stage. The resposibilities of the manufacturer of an ELSA are a bit daunting.

We will start our sales in Oz and NZ while making decisions re other countries.

Aussie Paul. :)

[Harry_S.]

just for the information, i have 17 hrs. on my raf todate and per Ron's instructions of doing a post flight check after each flight, i found one of my exhaust springs broke as soon as i got on the ground. fixed it today and ready to go again. just might go ahead and install the wheel pants and will post another photo of the finished product if i can talk MR. HARRY into putting them on the forum for me. i need to set down and learn to do this myself???



Bring 'em on Wayne. Am happy to do it for you.

Don't take so long between photos.;)...We all look forward to someone posting pics for viewing.

Fly safe Wayne.


Cheers :)

[Harry_S.]

Howdy all,

Well, today I finished the 2 day course for the LSA mechinacial inspection authorization and received my temporary certificate. I think that I am the first to receive this authorization for a gyroplane.




Congrats Paul.

Is this for one specific aircraft, or can you use it on any other A/C, and not owned by you?

Pardon me for asking a dumb question; I am not at all into this LSA stuff. I'm not young enough to be concerned about it but maybe I can ask dumb questions that may help someone else?!

Is this similar or equal to the Repairman Certificate for an "N" numbered A/C?!


Cheers :)

[paulp]

Hey Thom,

Thanks. Yes, it is reg as an EXP LIGHT SPORT not as an AMATURE Built. Any kit that is sold may be certificated as either an EXP LIGHT SPORT or as an AMATURE BUILT depending on the type certificate that you want. It's up to the builder since the builder determines the gross weight.:plane:

[paulp]

Hey Harry,

Yes, it is type and aircraft specific. That is what seperates it from a standard category type of maintenance certificate, ie A&P. I can only do the condition inspection(annual) on my aircraft-no one elses. It is really the same as the inspection authorization issued to an amature built. That is the good thing about the LSA or ELSA. One person can build it and transfer it to another and the purchaser can get a repairmans cert for that aircraft. This is not the case with an amature built type certificate. The new purchaser of that aircraft will have to have the condition insp. done by an a&P or the original builder.:wave:

[TJMay]

Finally got back to Brewton and put in another 4 hours over two days.

I'm much more relaxed on the stick now and am not overcontrolling nearly as much. Dofin made a few adustments to the pitch and roll trim springs which helped.

I was still a little behind the cabin movements so after three hours, Dofin and I decided to put the HS back on.

It made a huge difference! My 4th flight I felt much more in control and the cabin movements seemed to level out tremdously. Since there were fewer movements in the pitch, I felt less need to provide stick input.

We did some straight and level flight, turns and a few touch-and-gos.

I still have a long way to go to get what I know in my head down to my hands without thinking too much but I at least now feel better about my RAF with the HS on.

Hope to get more time in this week.

Tommy

[dragonflyerthom]

Sounds Great Tommy

Sometimes just having the H/S will just make you feel better. Good post by the way.

[Harry_S.]

You're doin' just fine Tommy.

I'm glad to see you're not letting too much time pass between training sessions.

The HS is doing it's job for you.


Cheers :)

[paulp]

Hey Tommy,

The big thing about training is consistency AND continuity. Stick with it and one day the moves will be there and you will wonder what took you so long.:)

[TJMay]

Another trip to Brewton, another 3 hours before the rains came.

But, I felt much more relaxed and in control. While I still need much practice and experience, my S turns, turns around a point and figure eights were pretty good.

My landings, however, were pretty scarry. We did a bunch of T&G's and while I got down with no damage (with help from Dofin from time to time) I need some improvement there. Takeoffs from a stop are pretty good; takeoffs from a landing and short roll need help too. Going around the pattern seemd easy enough; need practice there too.

I love this gyro flying thing!

Tommy

[Timchick]

Tommy,
I think landings are the last thing most people perfect. It sounds like you're doing great. Where's the photos?

[TJMay]

Tommy,
I think landings are the last thing most people perfect. It sounds like you're doing great. Where's the photos?

Photos!

Who the hell has time for photos with all there is to do while taking off, flying straight and level, turns and landings?

Photos will have to wait a while.

Tommy

[paulp]

Howdy Tommy,

Sounds like you are doin' good! :party: However, you should exracise caution.The next thing ya know you will want to fly that contraption by your self. At that point, you will be addicted!!!! Suddenly, you will be looking for excuses to go fly and neglect chores, honey-do's and such.

My advise is to impose strict limits on yourself. Never fly on a day that doesn't end in Y. Never fly during a month that has more than 31 days and NEVER, NEVER, NEVER fly on a day when the sun doesn't rise in the east.:peace: :D

[dragonflyerthom]

Good Advice Paul

[WHUBBS]

just wanted to give an update on my training in my RAF-2000. after building my raf and taking lessons a few weeks ago with MR. RON MENZIE, i now have accumulated 20 hours solo and 30 on the machine total. i could have done much better but at this time of year the weather is not so good. i did install the large air command H/S and i could not be more pleased with the stability of this machine. my first gyro was a bensen, which i had to fly continually, next i built a air command (not clt) with a 582 which i fly now, and i had to also fly it continually, last year i put 105 hours on the A/C and now i am flying my RAF, and can't believe the stability difference. as you can see i have very little stability experience and feel almost like i am flying my Mooney while in the raf. in the near future and possibly at Mentone this coming summer, i hope i can talk someone, with raf experience to fly with me for their comments on my machine as that is how i will really know if it is as good as i think it is. i purchased a very nice becker com. radio to fit in the 2-1/4" cut out, in the dash with built in intercom, but do not have it installed yet. i started my solo flying with 180 lb. of ballast on the passenger side and have been slowly removing some of the weight and with 20 hours of solo, i am down to 48 lb. remaining ballast. the only thing that i have noticed by removing the ballast is, on landing, i must be a little more sensitive on the cyclic. the only problem if have had todate with my 20 hrs. solo flights, one exhaust spring broke. the pre-rotator turnbuckle that i installed has worked perfect and the belt tension is the same after each flight. i love flying this machine.

[dragonflyerthom]

Wayne I am really glad to hear you are doing good. I can hardly wait to get to my own time as you have. It has been a long haul. I think I have rebuilt my machine 3 or 4 times. I seemed to have been at the same point for 3 months. Never forward . It was like two steps forward and one back. I am now finished. I have re set my props and I think they are perfect. I have had my rotor out several times also. It is beautiful. All white, and no nicks or scratches. Anyway I am waiting on Ron M to get back from vacation. Life is good.

Glad to hear Sandy is losing weight.

[Timchick]

Tommy,
I didn't mean photos while you were flying. Surely somebody can snap some photos of you standing beside/sitting in your gyro.

[dragonflyerthom]

Wayne

Have you tried to see what RRPM you get with your set up?:suspicious: I did my prerotator the same way with the turnbuckle.

[Udi]

...i hope i can talk someone, with raf experience to fly with me for their comments on my machine as that is how i will really know if it is as good as i think it is...
With Ron Menzie as your instructor you won't find anyone more qualified to comment on your gyro's stability. It would be very interesting if you, and Ron, run thru Greg Gremminger's static stability tests. That is your ultimate test. An objective and standardized flight test. Many people will be interested to read about your results.

Udi

[dragonflyerthom]

Udi

I do plan on doing all of Gregs stability test. I have been working on an adjustable trim tab on the H/S. It will start out as ground adjustable of 2-3 degrees. It is like an elevator only fixed until adjusted. I eventually want to put the adjustment inside so as to set my dangle angle in flight and speed. I have noticed that Juan de la Cierva used elevators untill he discovered dysemetry of lift with the rotors and began to us the rotor cyclic to control the aircraft. I have an idea that this might help in the HTL machine by helping set and to keep the CG in the RTV. Hopefully this will add some stability to my machine. Heck I guess that is why it is called experimental. I am experimenting.

[Harry_S.]

just wanted to give an update on my training in my RAF-2000. after building my raf and taking lessons a few weeks ago with MR. RON MENZIE, i now have accumulated 20 hours solo and 30 on the machine total. i could have done much better but at this time of year the weather is not so good.

i started my solo flying with 180 lb. of ballast on the passenger side and have been slowly removing some of the weight and with 20 hours of solo, i am down to 48 lb. remaining ballast. the only thing that i have noticed by removing the ballast is, on landing, i must be a little more sensitive on the cyclic.



You're doing great, Wayne.

It's a shame the weather is not co-operating right now. You're probably getting pretty good gusty winds about now. You're smart to keep the machine in the hangar on these days. We're having some terrific winds here in Florida now. Flew yesterday and the winds got so bad, it was no fun at all, so cut it short and put her away.:(


Wayne, what's happening now with the yaw in your landings is normal with the RAF. It's just a little something that you will learn to control. No big deal.

In landing, when your erpm is low, say 2500-3000 and your airspeed is falling off just before touchdown, the nose will yaw toward the empty seat. As you now know, it's a rather slow rate of yaw and you have to arrest it with enough left stick pressure to keep the nose pointed straight ahead. This yawing don't occur with two people aboard or as you have been flying solo and with ballast in the right seat.

Fly safe and have fun.


Cheers :)

[WHUBBS]

Harry, YOU are so correct, that is exactily what i am noticing, the more ballast i take out the more it will tend to move to the right and i did not notice that at all with more ballast in the machine. i made several landings the other evening and on final, i took my feet and hands off the controls and the machine stayed in my gradual descent and just beautiful straight.

i will pay special attention to what is going on , now that i know for sure what to look for. thanks Harry, this will be a big help.

[WHUBBS]

Harry, i am working on that yaw problem just after touchdown and doing much better with it, thanks to your information. today was turkey day and the weather was just beautiful, outside air temp. was 36 degrees, so i put the doors on for the first time and took her up, i was up for a little over one hour and could not wait to set her down as the temp. inside got up to 81 f. i had two sweat shirts on and should have had one short sleeve, only. i did notice just a very small amount of yaw, which i had not noticed before with the doors off. it is much to early to say just how it handles until i fly in a little more wind with the doors. should be installing my new BECKER radio soon that fits in the 2 1/4 cutout.

Wayne

[Harry_S.]

Harry, i am working on that yaw problem just after touchdown and doing much better with it, thanks to your information. today was turkey day and the weather was just beautiful, outside air temp. was 36 degrees, so i put the doors on for the first time and took her up, i was up for a little over one hour and could not wait to set her down as the temp. inside got up to 81 f. i had two sweat shirts on and should have had one short sleeve, only. i did notice just a very small amount of yaw, which i had not noticed before with the doors off. it is much to early to say just how it handles until i fly in a little more wind with the doors. should be installing my new BECKER radio soon that fits in the 2 1/4 cutout.

Wayne



Good to hear from you Wayne.

I really don't understand your yaw problem AFTER touchdown. You have a huge amount of energy in those 30 footers up there, even after TD. Once you're stopped, specially in a crosswind, you need to put the stick full forward and tilted into the wind...to get the nosewheel on the ground, the rotor under the wind and to quickly lose rotor lift and rrpm.

I'm sure you know this, so I'm posting it also for the benefit of the other newer pilots out there.;)

You went flying when it was only 36 degrees?! I don't even leave the house when it's that cold. But of course the RAF flyers can go flying in toasty comfort. Did you try turning the heater fan off every now and then, to maintain a comfort zone?!

I think you will always have a small bit of yaw when flying with the doors on?! I don't know as anyone has mentioned of having NO YAW with the doors on. Even the SH's. Anyone out there with no yaw when flying with the doors?

Nice to hear from you Wayne. Fly safe and keep us posted.


Cheers :)

[WHUBBS]

Harry, i put in a couple more hours today with the doors on, with the OAT about 40 but did not turn on the heater and it reached 76 by the time i got to sparta tennessee, a 20 min ride across the lake. the kit come with two vents to go into the doors and i had no plans of putting them in, but that is just what i need. i think i will put in just one vent on the pilot side to start with as even with the heater off, i was a little to warm. i was on the ground for about an hour at the sparta a/p with my raf setting in the sun, when i got in for the return trip home, it was 112 degrees inside-wow i should have left the door proped open. i am learning the hard way but i just love to fly this machine.

Wayne

[PW_Plack]

Wayne,

Does hot coolant circulate through the heater core at all times? Is there a "summer/winter" bypass valve, or do you just shunt the heater by adding a short external hose for summer use?

I would guess carbon monoxide threats are nearly non-extistent in a water-cooled pusher, but I've always liked the idea of cabin air flowing at all times. Adding a vent sounds like a better idea than restricting hot coolant flow.

[WHUBBS]

paul, you are correct and i also believe a little air circulation is good. today was another beautiful sunny day and i did go ahead and install both vents in the doors and the temp. got up to near 70, OAT. i went up for an hour this evening while the temp. was still in the high 60s and tried out the vents, and i could not be more pleased. it got up to 76 with the vents closed ( HEATER OFF) and by only opening one VENT half way i was able to get the temp. back down 10 degrees. this is almost perfect temp. control.

no Paul, i do not have a shutoff in the heater system as i was advised not to. i agreed as we really have hot summers and i think the heater core, just acts like a spare radiator and will help keep the engine cool. if in the summer i notice the temp. on the high side, i possibly will turn on the heater.

Wayne

[dragonflyerthom]

Wayne
I don't know if you noticed but Ron has an extra two vents on the cabin of his RAF. This is so that in the summer your feet will stay cooler. You might think about installing them in the spring.
Great post there guy. Glad you're having soo much fun. When I was coming thru Tennessee Saturday I almost burned up. It was hot. Beautiful country you have there with the rolling beautiful hills and country side.

[StanFoster]

Wayne: I circulate my hot water all the time as well. I had an incident this early this year when I had a thermostat stick on my SparrowHawk. The water temp started rising and I kicked on the heater fan just to extract a few more btus out of the engine. My Subaru has a certain amount of water that bypasses and circulates all the time. The only cooling was through my heater as the thermostat was blocking the main water flow to the radiator. I landed and even though my temps were getting high....the radiator was cold showing me that the thermostat had stuck closed. My only cooling was that little heater core with the engine bypass water going through it.

I had installed a heater bypass ...but later removed it as it was a bunch of unnecessary clutter in my book...and something I never would use.


Stan

[WHUBBS]

Thanks Stan, that is good to know that the heater actually works as a small backup, which could save the day in a pinch. today i did give my raf a good check out, experimenting with the vents that i just installed and they work just great. by installing the doors, i have noticed a slight pull to the left and before without the doors, the trim i have set, i felt could not be any better. mind you it is not very much, but i do notice it. have you noticed a slight difference in trim with, or without the doors? Stan, i notice in your messages you are working with prop pitch and think i might add one more degree to my warp drive. i have 12 now and thought i might move it to 13. i have the ej22 FI and at full power it runs about5130. does that sound normal.

Wayne

[StanFoster]

Wayne: I never noticed any yaw with the doors on. The rpm's on your prop sounds right.


Stan

[Harry_S.]

Wayne;

Your present pitch of 12 and 5130 rpm sound okay.

A rule of thumb for our Warp drive is...one degree of pitch will affect the rpm by 100.

If you add one more of pitch, your rpm will drop to just over 5000 and that's cuttin' it pretty close IMO. Personaly, I like my rpm between 5100 and 5200.

Keep 'em flyin', Wayne. How many hours on the Hobbs now?

PS. I use the heater fan for a little extra water cooling in the hot summer temps. It helps a bit.


Cheers :)

[WHUBBS]

Harry, then it sounds like i possibly should leave it at 12. in the summer and whenever i haul a passenger, i am sure i will need all the power i can get out of the ej22. we have had some beautiful days this past week and weekend, so now i have 41 hours but remember 10 was on the ground so i have 9 to go. i am waiting on my radio wire harness, as i would like to have a nice radio for my x-country trip and into a controlled field, it should be on its way this week, the antenna arrived today and guess what, it is the wrong one. i ordered a straight one so i could bend it where i wanted to bend it and they sent me the one, that is already bent. my training today consisted of flying about 40 mile, round trip to McMinville tenn. with a friend in his experimental (hawk airplane) that he and i built last year. the next time we do that i want him to take some photos of my raf in the air and i will do the same for him. my poor Mooney just sets in the hangar, but it looks nice. ; )

Wayne

[dragonflyerthom]

You are doing great Wayne. Keep it up and take some more pics to share.

[Harry_S.]

Wayne, you're really goin' at it and I know it's being done safely. Good show.

Have you shucked all the ballast by now?!

Let us know how your radio install goes. If you have problems with that antenna, we may have a solution?!

I do believe that your Mooney will only be flying the long and fast X/C trips, once the RAF is freed up to go anywhere. ;)


Cheers :)

[WHUBBS]

Thanks Harry & Thom, i do plan to take more photos soon but would like some of the raf in flight to share.
i removed a 14 lb. wt. yesterday before flight and today a 3 lb. wt. although i did not fly today as it rained off and on most of the day, that leaves me with about 25 lb. to remove. i installed a used antenna that our local mechanic had, which was just like new and just like the one that i had ordered, he was nice enough to give it to me as he is closing down his business at our local airport. as i had mentioned earlier that A/C spruce shipped me the wrong antenna so tomorrow i think i will ship it back to them. i don't feel real good about shipping it back but if they had not sent the wrong antenna, then i would have not installed a used one. the mechanic actually give me two antenna's and both were identical. if i have a problem with the one i have installed, i will have a second chance.

Wayne

[TJMay]

Got back to Brewton for a couple of days and about 5 more hours.

I STILL LOVE IT!

Taking off, straight-and-level, S turns, turns arouind a point, flying the pattern, etc. etc. All coming along; I get better each flight.

Landing? That's another question. I'm strill struggling. So much to remember and do all at the same time. It's coming but more slowly than other aspects of flying my bird.

Hope to get more hours in December.

Tommy

[dragonflyerthom]

That sounds great Tommy. Start to see if you can feel when you get in to ground effect. When you can feel that consistently you will have it down. It is the ground effect that lets you know to start to bleed the speed. Don't worry about the numbers that will come. Great man you are getting it down.

[Harry_S.]

Got back to Brewton for a couple of days and about 5 more hours.

I STILL LOVE IT!

Landing? That's another question. I'm strill struggling. So much to remember and do all at the same time. It's coming but more slowly than other aspects of flying my bird.




Tommy...Tommy...Tommy...I think even the forum expert will concede that the landing phase of flight training is the most difficult to master.

You're doing just fine. Sounds like you're right on the learning curve.;) Once you nail the landing...I know you will remark...what was so hard about doing that?! Then shake your head and smile.

Can't wait till your next lesson?!

Keep us posted.


Cheers :)

[chuter]

I've got 60 hours of solo time now, and every landing is still an adventure. My percentage of "good" landings is going up, but I still have a way to go.

The other day I made 2 in a row that I was really proud of; that felt GOOD!:whoo:

[WHUBBS]

just finished my 40 hr. solo and decided to get out of my 25 mi. circle for the first time. the oat. was about 38 f. but toasty warm in the cabin, only had about 2 hours before dark when i departed and the winds were calm, i made a great circle which covered about 65 mi. total. i held my altitude at 1-k ft. for the entire trip as i did go over some rough terrain here in middle Tenn. but made sure i could glide to a potential safe landing spot if needed by doing a little zig zag work. i made the entire trip with my feet flat on the floor but had no bumps for the entire trip to compete with. i really like knowing i have dual fuel pumps as some of my course took me over center hill lake on my return trip home and i did kick both pumps on when i know i have no where to go. i set two records for myself in one day, in distance and time. took a flight to Sparta Tenn. in the A.M. and the great circle in the afternoon, which was a total of 4.4 hours in one day. i should have my new aircraft radio installed in a few days, and as soon as possible i will take my cross country flight, into a controlled field and get that behind me next. i just love to fly this machine, and appreciate everyone (you know who you are) for your encouragement and advice you have given to me, during my build and flight training. i am flying just like Mr. Menzie taught me and to my best ability will not stray from his instructions, that is what i paid him for, which was, his professional advice.

Wayne

[dragonflyerthom]

Hear Hear Wayne

Just what can I say
SPECTACULAR.

[Steve Osborne]

Way to go Wayne. I always add around 5 min when planning my x-country trips, to allow for all the zigzag. When I go back and review the trails on my gps it looks like a drunken sailor was flying. :cool:

[Harry_S.]

Very pleased to read your progress reports, Wayne. Keep 'em comin'.

When do you go back to see Ron M. again?

Fly often and fly safe.


Cheers :)

[dragonflyerthom]

Wayne Ron M said to tell ya hello. I was there today doing the walk around to make sure I am ready for the AW. Ron found two bolts that he wanted replaced, An additional safty on the lowere end of the prerotator, I had to take some of the torq off the Prop bolts. I had 140 inch lbs on all of the bolts and the 1/4 were only 120 inch lbs. And he wanted the airbreather safty wired. Took most of the day but it is done now. I go back on monday.

Harry something that was interesting was a AAI mod RAF that had rolled on landing on its side. About the only thing to do now is sell for parts. It wasn't a pretty site. Seems even CLTs can get into trouble if they aren't landed correctly.
Ron said that if anyone with a RAF is interested he has one Larry Martin H/Stab left. He'll take 600 dollars plus shipping for it. This is the one that is just like mine.

[Harry_S.]

Thom;

Hey, you're ready to go flyin'...good news. Keep us posted with good progress reports.;)

What was that additional safety Ron wanted on the pre-rotator??

Thom, I'm still wanting the steel drive plate used on the P/R. Would you check with Ron if the one is available from that wreck?! If he don't want to let just the driver go, how much for the whole lower unit?! Thanks.

Keep us posted, OK.


Cheers :)

[WHUBBS]

Thanks Thom, for the message from MR. Menzie and i also was wandering what the safety was on the lower end of the pre-rotator?? the small turnbuckle that i installed on my pre-rotator, only finger tight has never come loose and the belt stays the same each flight. please keep up the reports with your training and a photo or two if you have time. after my 10 hours on the ground and a couple of hours at Searcy, Ron, wanted me to go over all hose clamps, prop bolts etc. and everything on the whole machine needed a good retorque job, so that was good time well spent. i really enjoyed my training with Ron, and wish everyone that is new to gyro's would take proper training. i put another two hours on the raf this evening, with all this cold weather and was toasty warm inside. i feel so sorry for my air command setting there in the cold hangar, but i do have it covered with a couple of sheets. three more hours and i will have a total 300 in gyro's.

keep us posted Thom.

Wayne

[dragonflyerthom]

Harry S I talked to Ron about the Prerotator plate and he doesn't have one at this time that he can part with.

[dragonflyerthom]

Guys in answer to you query about the Prerotator cable, Ron had me put a safty cable on the lower part of the rotator housing. He was real firm on this. Went for some more hours but it was raining and there were three other students there. One is a member of the forum, his friend and Bill B. from Texas who is the Sparrow hawk dealer there in Texas. Talked with my FAA inspector who lives in Conway. He should get it inspected tomorrow some time. You know how that goes. From what Ron M said my bird should pass with no problem. Men the paperwork is too much. I think I am writing a book.:tape: I will keep you posted. After the inspection we can start the flying. :plane: Hey ToddP we need a gyro instead of a plane.:lol:

[StanFoster]

Thom: I am looking forward to seeing that RAF of yours at altitude. Sounds like you are really progressing.

Stan

[dragonflyerthom]

Thanks Stan

There will be lots of our little town of Gurdon, AR. Maybe it will become world famous:lol: This little berg now has 4400ft asphalt runway and only three a/c that use it. I will have the whole airport to myself.
:smokin:

[Harry_S.]

Thom,

Was that lower P/R safety like the one I rigged up on my machine, some time back?


Cheers :)

[dragonflyerthom]

Nice job Harry. Yes that is the one.

[gwilliams38]

Harry S.

Following your instruction to leave "Welcome Mat" to this general forum. It's been 6 days (for me & anyone on this forum), so I don't feel so badly.

I read with interest your safety mod to the pre-rotator. Hadn't realized there was a problem with that (but, I should have).

Read someones old post with interest with redundant ignition system. Of course, I have dual fuel pumps.

I guess my greatest interest is correcting the engine high thrust level and mods to correct (drop the keel?) and horizontal stabilization. I'm aware, of course, of the Groen mod like the SparrowHawk. But, I'm a little confused if there are other less expensive, yet comparable fixes. Like everyone, my concentrated interest is safety; maybe I need "RAF for Dummies", like many popular textbooks now.

Since this is a more generic forum, I'll give a little Bio.

I'm 55, college graduate BS Human Resource Development. Drafted during Vietnam, but joined DEP USAF. Married and father @ that time. Retired Deputy Sheriff (25 years). Now returning to public service as a semi-law-enforcement officer...supervising parole violators of Circuit Court in community service roles and enforcing focused laws.

I tried desperately to escape the law enforcement field, but, like my wife (nurse/substance abuse counselor), we are unable due to preconceptions of our professions.

Short synopsis.

(Harry: Yes, I'll be getting a digital camera for Christmas & I'm sure I'll be able to post some pics of the aircraft.)

N538GW

[dragonflyerthom]

GW

There are several inexpensive mods that you can do. Aussie Paul and Larry Boyer both have done these. Do a search to see them

Guys

Yesterday I put the rotors on and saftyd the nuts and bolts on the mast and control tubes. Everything was set up measured and readied. Today I will set the nose wheel and rudder for the final. Hopefully I will be able to fly a little today. It doesn't look good because there is a 50% chance of rain. Going slow and safely. Bill Bracken is at the training center trying to finish his gyro up. He did high speed taxiing yesterday. I'll keep you posted.

[Aussie_Paul]

GW

There are several inexpensive mods that you can do. Aussie Paul and Larry Boyer both have done these. Do a search to see them

Guys

Yesterday I put the rotors on and saftyd the nuts and bolts on the mast and control tubes. Everything was set up measured and readied. Today I will set the nose wheel and rudder for the final. Hopefully I will be able to fly a little today. It doesn't look good because there is a 50% chance of rain. Going slow and safely. Bill Bracken is at the training center trying to finish his gyro up. He did high speed taxiing yesterday with Ron. I'll keep you posted.

Thom. when you set the rudder you need to have the rudder set with more right rudder applied with the pedals level. That tail was designed for the 100 hp ea-82 and the extra HP of the ej-22 needs a little more right rudder offset. You will notice every picture of a RAF being flown balanced that the front of the rudder is out to the left side of the fin by at lest a 1/2".

RAF used to and maybe still do supply both rudder cables the same length. This means that to set the rudder correctly you need to have the right turnbuckle all the way in and the left one as far out a possible. be carefull not to make the mistake that cost a Canadian life when the left side turnbuckle pulled out. RAF should have been supplying one rudder cable 1.5"s longer.

Just my opinion of course. :humble:

Aussie Paul. :)

[Harry_S.]

GW

Yesterday I put the rotors on and saftyd the nuts and bolts on the mast and control tubes. Everything was set up measured and readied. Today I will set the nose wheel and rudder for the final. Hopefully I will be able to fly a little today. It doesn't look good because there is a 50% chance of rain. Going slow and safely. Bill Bracken is at the training center trying to finish his gyro up. He did high speed taxiing yesterday with Ron. I'll keep you posted.



I hope that weather clears for you, Thom.

Bad weather, Ron with 2 or 3 other students...and you with all that anxiety...wow. Beer time, or as Big Ben does...a beer and a scotch.:boink:

Here's hopin' you get in the air today or tomorrow.

I'm not gonna tell you what the weather has been here the last few days.


Cheers :)

[Harry_S.]

(Harry: Yes, I'll be getting a digital camera for Christmas & I'm sure I'll be able to post some pics of the aircraft.)

N538GW



We're looking forward to a lot of pics from you, Gaylan. :director:

Stay right with us here on the RAF Forum. We want to have many more of you RAF pilots join in.

As I understand, Larry Boyer's Mod is about the least expensive route that is available. Several guys have gone with Larry's mod. Why not contact Larry and talk about it?!

Larry B....maybe you could start an "RAF Larry Boyer Mod" thread here?!

Stay with us here, Gaylan. Post any specific questions you may have in the appropriate thread and I'm sure you'll get good info.


Cheers :)

[Gary_in_Orygun]

When Thom mentioned wanting a gyro flyer icon, I tried the following:

<IMG src="http://home.att.net/~gary_air2/pictures/RAF2000gk2_plt.gif" vspace=9 width=150 HEIGHT=74 border=0 alt="Happy Flying">

But how do I get the above code to execute in this forum window, instead of displaying my code? The following is a link to the animated .gif. I wanted to display this 1/2 size.

http://home.att.net/~gary_air2/pictures/RAF2000gk2_plt.gif

[dragonflyerthom]

Gary that is just toooo COOL. You did good. Now ToddP or Gyromike needs to put this up.

Thanks Gary.

[Harry_S.]

Gary,

THAT IS REALLY NICE.:whoo:


Cheers :)

[WHUBBS]

Thom, i hope you have good weather as i know how you feel. i was afraid i would travel to AR and set in my motel for a week but the Lord was good to me and the weather could have not been any better for my whole stay at Searcy. one day the wind sock was straight out with a x-wind and i really enjoyed that day also as i needed the experience with the wind in an RAF. turning on base leg i had the direct head wind and would almost hover as i dropped about 200 feet and then nose it down and turn in on final.
Ron could see i was having to much fun and made me take a break.

keep us posted Thom.

Wayne

[StanFoster]

Thom and Wayne: Glad to see you guys are having a ball. Its nice reading your positive and enthusiastic posts. Adds a lot to this forum...thanks.


Stan

[dragonflyerthom]

Paul B

I did cut the rudder cable on the right side 1 1/2 inches in order to get the full deflection for the right side. Thanks for your input. It worked perfectly. Those rotor blades on my bird are really smooth. Little or no shake. I believe I have built a good ship. She comes off the ground at 35-40 mph and the rotors are turning at 315 RRPM. Going up and down the runway at 35 ft has been a chore tho. The trim has to be set really quickly but she is dialing in easily. I will keep everyone posted as to the progress. Ron Menzie has helped me find some of my problems as a crew member. He is such a good instructor for the newbies.

[Harry_S.]

Sounds like you're comin' along just fine, Thom. How many hours now?!

Say, don't cha have a camera with you? I don't think I've seen a full side shot of your machine?! Unless I missed it...somewhere?!

Here's hopin' the weather bodes well for you.

Have fun...be safe.


Cheers :)

[dragonflyerthom]

Harry I will try to get some this week. I will be there Tuesday and Wednesday. Ron M will be going back out to Arizona for the month of January. I really don't blame him heck I would to if I could. He said something about picking up a gyro also.

[Steve Osborne]

Yea, lots of of pics Thom. Say hi to Ron M for me and tell him I will be down to see him for my commercial check ride as soon as I get my act together.

[Harry_S.]

Yea, lots of of pics Thom. Say hi to Ron M for me and tell him I will be down to see him for my commercial check ride as soon as I get my act together.



Need some help?! We need some more Comm. Rated Gyro pilots.

Go get rated, Steve.


Cheers :)

[JR_T]

Need some help?! We need some more Comm. Rated Gyro pilots.

Go get rated, Steve.


Cheers :)
I'm a Comm rated gyro pilot ... how can I help?

[scottessex]

Hey JR T, Where is Blackshear Ga???

[JR_T]

Blackshear is about an hour and 15 min NW of Jacksonville. It is between Brunswick and Valdosta.

[Harry_S.]

I'm a Comm rated gyro pilot ... how can I help?



Hi Jerry;

This is where the RAF pilots gather. Welcome. ;)

In my post to Steve, I forgot to add the Whip icon, to help speed him along to get his Commercial. Altho, Steve may ask you for some advice on his prep for his written and practical.

Jerry, it's my thought that maybe you could get your CFI for gyro's, to help out with the shortage of CFI's that does exit.

Glad to have you with us.


Cheers :)

[JR_T]

Hi Jerry;

This is where the RAF pilots gather. Welcome. ;)

In my post to Steve, I forgot to add the Whip icon, to help speed him along to get his Commercial. Altho, Steve may ask you for some advice on his prep for his written and practical.

Jerry, it's my thought that maybe you could get your CFI for gyro's, to help out with the shortage of CFI's that does exit.

Glad to have you with us.


Cheers :)
Well ... I have given it some thought. I have a lot of instructor and Flight Examiner time. Also a graduate of the USAF Fighter Weapons School (Air Force Top Gun School). I'm certainly willing to offer my background and experience to help others that enjoy our gyro sport.

[JR_T]

Forgot to mention that I wrote down all the PTS stuff I did during my check ride. Also documented the oral exam questions.

[Steve Osborne]

Welcome Jerry, my wife has been getting on me about it to. I have met all the requirements and finished the 5 hrs of instrument training in Diamond DA-20 back in the summer. So all I need to do is put my nose into the books again and take the check ride. It will be a good project for me on those non flying days this winter. Thinking of going to Ron M in March or April and I welcome all input from you pros. :hail:

[Timchick]

Jerry,
Are you going down to Bensen Days in April?

[JR_T]

Jerry,
Are you going down to Bensen Days in April?



Tim,

Haven't made plans for sure, but will likely attend.

[Harry_S.]

Hey Thom;

Don't you have anything to report and/or brag about what has happened with your training this week?!

Fill us in...and where are the photos you were promising?


Cheers :)

[dragonflyerthom]

Harry I hope I don't come across as a braggart.

I went up yesterday and got my baby because Ron M is headed to Arizona again. He will be gone during the month of January. I need to keep sharp on the feeling of my Gyro. I will also see if I can fine tune the front wheel. But I will be going up and down my runway balancing on the mains in order to put some of the hours on my motor. I only have 10 hours on the motor and need to have 10 more. I really need to get the ground handling down it is a little different from Rons. We are going to be having fun for this month. I promise I will post some of my airport and my Dragonflyer.

[Steve Osborne]

Keep those tires warm Thom, Harry, I am going to brag a little. I went up today 2.3 hrs, had to stop for one quick pee break though. Just stayed about 10 miles of the home place ,flew around in the nice warm cockpit and enjoyed the view. Once back I shot 6 T&Ls and then worked on 180 & 360 degree autos. It has been awhile since I had practiced them.

Man I love my RAF and just realized how much when I added up the time flown since Jan this year and was shocked. 112 hrs in the RAF, 6 in Diamond DA-20 and not logable 21 in my buds R22. Hope the wife does not find those fuel bills. The Hobbs is up to 690 hrs now. Did I mention how much I love my RAF? :) Oh yea, I did. Take lots of photos and keep the reports coming Thom.

[LARRYEBOYER]

Steve! You are wearing out that beast!!! I plan to fly tomorrow. Supossed to be sweet air and a fine 50 degree day. I am having breakfast at 9 AM with an old friend, then hit the grass strip at 11 AM. Any chance you want to come for a visit? Also I looked every where for the AIR Mass sensor. I can not find( I told you my shop is a disaster from buildinf the kitfox) but I did find a good piece of that plastic 4 inch intake pipe that you can have.Call me.

[TJMay]

Got back to Brewton for some more training on Wednesday and Thursday. My first flight practiced a few 360s and S turns, then the rest of that hour and for 5 more hours was all T&Gs.

I'm getting better; can now "feel" the ground and not balloon so much.

I still love flying my RAF!

A snapshot of my ship is attached.

Tommy

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

" I'm getting better; can now "feel" the ground and not balloon so much. "

Tommy, reading this comment I wonder what you mean by " feel " the ground?

Landing any aircraft be it fixed wing, helicopter or gyroplane is judged by " sight ".

There are three issues in accurate landing skills.

(1) Closure rate to the landing point.

(2) The ability to judge distance from landing point.

(3) The ability to judge height above landing point.

Of all the problems I find in teaching advanced flying skills these three things are the least understood and the easiest to teach.

The flying training industry world wide has lost track of these basic principles of how to land and teach arrivals based on the attitude and power and wait principal.

Ballooning is caused by inaccurate pitch control, generally caused by inaccurate closure rate and height judgement due to looking to far ahead.

If you already are aware of this, please ignore my advice. :)

Chuck E.

[TJMay]

A fair question and coming from one with your experience, I would be foolish to ignore your advice.

I guess that's why I put "feel" in quotations as it was not meant to be taken literally. But, by "feel", I meant the change in the lift as I got closer and closer to the ground. Ground effect?

The first two of your three issues are coming to me and I now have little problem with them. I am admittedly, however, having some difficulty judging height above the ground and thus am/was flaring too soon and too much causing the ballooning.

The more I practice, the closer I get to judging the distance to the ground.

Thanks for your input.

Tommy

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

Tommy:

If you are interested I wrote an article on how to judge closure rate, distance and height when landing several years ago and if you would like a copy just PM me.

It may take me some time to find it but if all else fails it can be found on Pprune as it was used there as a bench mark on how to land.

C.E.

[Harry_S.]

Got back to Brewton for some more training on Wednesday and Thursday. My first flight practiced a few 360s and S turns, then the rest of that hour and for 5 more hours was all T&Gs.

I'm getting better; can now "feel" the ground and not balloon so much.

I still love flying my RAF!

A snapshot of my ship is attached.

Tommy


Way ta go, Tommy. Nice lookin' machine "profile". but can't see any paint detail. Try to get us one with the sun on the side, to show it off?!

When are you going to put the wheel pants on?

I know Dofin don't like those pants. ;)

You're doing just great...solo comin' up soon?!


Cheers :)

[Harry_S.]

Harry, I am going to brag a little. I went up today 2.3 hrs, had to stop for one quick pee break though. Just stayed about 10 miles of the home place ,flew around in the nice warm cockpit and enjoyed the view. Once back I shot 6 T&Ls and then worked on 180 & 360 degree autos. It has been awhile since I had practiced them.





Steve, you sure know how to rub salt into an open wound. :twitch:

I haven't been up in about two weeks...so, this morning was clear and calm but real cool. I have no doors plus I don't fly below 70 deg. About 1000 hrs. the sun had warmed the air pretty good and the winds picked up. I headed to the airport. At the airport the winds were up to about 10-15. I'm the only one there.

Taxiing out, the sock was horizontal and the tail was kicking *up* now and then. Takeoff was good with the direct cw and on the crosswind leg I saw the IAS sashaying between 55 and 85 and it was a bit bumpy. It wasn't a fun ride so I cut it short after about 15 min., returned to the airport, landed and put her away.

So, two flights today...one of 2.3 hrs. up North and the other of 15 min. down South. There's no justice.:rolleyes:


Cheers :)

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

T J May:

Here is one of the short articles that I wrote for Pprune which is the worlds largest Aviation Forum.

This was for small airplanes but the priccipals of where to look remain the same for any flying machine, all that changes is approach speed, touch down speed and the height of the seat you are sitting in above ground when the machine is on the ground. :)

__________________________________________________ ____________-


" O.K. I will try and describe how I teach correct height judgement for the flare and height judgement after the flare.

First the flare:

I use a definiable point on the runway as the flare point, usually the first big hash marks and runway numbers. This is the aim point on final, during the last fifty feet in a small airplane the aim point will start to grow in size and also appear to spread out in your vision, at about twenty feet the picture will become quite clear that you are about to fly into the runway. It is at this point that I start the flare with most light bug smashers.

Note:

Rather than describe to the student what I am seeing I have them memorize what they observe at the flare point, this avoids any missunderstanding of what I am trying to describe. By using this method the student will quickly imprint the picture that she / he is seeing.

Once the flare is started you then look straight ahead down the runway to the point where apparent movement of the runway markers stop.

What is................... " Apparent movement of the runway " ..........

There is a point ahead of the airplane where the eye will pick up the movement of the runway towards the airplane. This point will change with the speed of the airplane.

For little Bug Smashers that approach in the 50 to 70 knot speed envelope the apparent movement of the runway,,, runway marks, will be approximately five hundred feet ahead of the airplane.

That is the distance ahead of the airplane that your center of sight should be aimed at. This will give you the proper picture that will allow you to best judge height.

The reason that this works is you can "see" the runway get closer in your peripheral vision as the runway movement close to the airplane changes. Also you can "see" the far end of the runway in the top of your peripheral vision, this is your attitude guide that allows you to change the attitude as speed and lift decays.

Ideally the airplane should contact the runway in the attitude that the stall occurs. ( Except wheel landings in taildraggers. )

If the nose blocks out your view ahead as you increase the nose up attitude during the hold off all you need do is move your head and sight line to the side and look along the side nose at the runway still using the same distance ahead that gives the picture that you need. Where apparent movement stops.

Note as you slow down the runway movement picture moves progressively closer. ( About three to five hundred feet ahead is just about right at touch down.


I have an excellent movie that was taken at Airbus Industries during my A320 training and I use it when describing what to look for when determining where the apparent runway movement stops. The beauty of the movie is I can stop it and show the point on the runway where this occurs, then start it up again.

Also the movie is perfect for the flare picture, the A320 approaches at a higher speed than a light aircraft but the picture remains the same when looking at the flare point, it just happens faster. ( oh by the way you don't actually flare an A320 like you do a Bug Smasher but the height judgement is the same. ( aided by the computer voice giving you exact height. )

I am willing to keep answering any and all questions about how I teach height and speed judgement, all I wish to do is make flying safer and easier for those who fly for the love of it.

My system works because I have been perfecting it for fifty years and I used to teach crop dusting where if you do not know how to accurately judge height and speed you die.

So if you all want me to keep explaining my method I am willing to type until everyone understands how I do it.

By the way:::

I use a camcorder for all my advanced flight training, when the student fu..s up it is easy to review it right after the flight and explain where it started to go wrong and how to prevent repeating the fu.. up.

Note:

To better understand the point of " Apparent Movement " you can observe this while driving your car on a straight highway, you look ahead and get uesd to where the white lane lines seem to start moving toward you as you drive, the faster you drive the further ahead the apparent movement of the lines will be.

Let me know how fast you got your car going trying to see the difference.

[Steve Osborne]

Steve! You are wearing out that beast!!! I plan to fly tomorrow. Supossed to be sweet air and a fine 50 degree day. I am having breakfast at 9 AM with an old friend, then hit the grass strip at 11 AM. Any chance you want to come for a visit? Also I looked every where for the AIR Mass sensor. I can not find( I told you my shop is a disaster from buildinf the kitfox) but I did find a good piece of that plastic 4 inch intake pipe that you can have.Call me.

Sorry about the salt Harry. I took Larry Boyer up on his offer today and It was another great day of flying in the RAF. Went up to Smoketown, PA (S37) today about 92 nm round trip. Larry flew the Boyer Warrior in from Morgantown. We had a few cups of coffee, BS awhile then flew home. The trip up took a little longer then back and crossing the Susquehanna river was not the best part for me until I had reached the other side. Its wide and not allot of grassy spots on either side. Anyway I enjoyed the flight up to Larry's neck of the woods very much and look forward to doing again. I think I will try and find a narrower spot to cross the river though.

Harry get some doors, we had a high of 49 and it was nice and cozy with out the heat on.

Nice Tommy, the wheel pants will also help save your prop.

[LARRYEBOYER]

Hey man!!!That turbulence you felt was the bass in the river bouncing off the bottom of your ship. They thought you were a lure! You need to fly a little higher when you cross that river. Remember, there are 200 lb cats that could get a good mouthful.
It was a beautiful day in Pa today. The Boyer Warrior climbed to a nose bleed height of 700 feet and headed west toward the Smoke town airport at a72 knot groundspeed. I caught a little turbulence off the vortex of a hawk wing as he flew in front of me. They think they own the sky.Other than that harrowing moment, and a fight to see who could be first into the pattern. ( a Cirrus pilot passed me and called his downwind. (He was lucky I chopped my throttle well below my VNE or he would have eatten my turbulence like I had to eat that turbulence from that hawk)As He passed me it reminded me of my prior life as a ww1 ace pilot. I gave him a salute of respect and he gave me the Hollywood wave.AnywaY, that's another story. I landed without incident and joined my fellow comrad in a beverage at the local pub. Steve has a sweet RAF. He just added a new EJ-25 to the business side of his machine. He has to run it in reverse to keep his RAF below VNE.Damn the RAF's are fast!!!! Steve is such a good looking guy and sure enough(as always) the waitress was in love and offered us Christmas cookies and her phone number and sociol security number so we can look her up the next trip. When Steve starts talking about raising hogs and corn, it just turns the local chicks on. I add my flying stories from my prior life and we are two irristable dudes. As we left the pub, the waitress came to the door, rested her butt against the doorjam, raised her foot and rested it against the wall, lit a cigarette, and said in a provacative way in a Lancaster County drawl" You all come back now".Steve said" I got to get home to slop my hogs". It was one of the most romantic moments of my life.
We did a preflight of our machines. Steve wiped the dipstick on his pants. I knew I was in the presence of greatness. We climbed in to our machines and started the prerotation of those 30 ft wings. Steve gave me a look that I had seen before so many times. We stopped the rotors and shut off the engines. We both exited our rotorcraft. He said" You too?" I said "yes Steve, Me too.Where is the rest room. That tea really got to me."
After relieving ourselves for the long flight home, we once more attempted the preflight routine. Steve once more checked his oil and wiped it on his pants. I reminded him that He had just checked it a few minutes ago. He said" Where safety is a concern there is no substitute". I grumbled something about his hogs were hungry and kicked my left tire to satisfy Steve's incessant safety quirk. We lit the Subies up and wound the blades to a blur, and proceeded down the asphalt. In seconds we were airborn and climbing in the best two RAF's in Southern Pa.(maybe the only two in Southern Pa) Anyway, I saluted to Steve as we flew in oposite directions knowing that the RAF gyro had brought us together and the RAF machine will do it again someday in the future. I saluted Don Lefluer, George Bush and Sadam Hussein. All important men that had brought real meaning to the world. I felt peace in my heart. Then from no where, turbulence like I had never felt before, almost like the feeling of flight in an unstabbed gyro on a windy day. Then as the Modified RAF handled the uneasy air I realized what the problem was. Damn hawk.
I wish everyone a Happy New Year.

[LARRYEBOYER]

Tommy. Glad your flying skills are comming along. I have posted on this forum for many years and I just wanted to give you a couple pointers. Ist, do not ever post you think you "feel" something. I did that same mistake and I spent the next two years trying to explain what I meant. All the great gyro minds berated me incessantly for using that 4 letter word. Be prepared to back up what you feel.The word "feel" must be a post hypnotic suggestion in some peoples minds on this forum. It will start a post that will go on and on with a lesson in life verbage that will confuse you for life.You will question your own sanity. Be careful!!! Oh yes, you will then respond like I initially tried to do by trying to be understanding and thankful for their concern for your life. But you ultamately find that that person was using you to promote their agenda, not help you.
Good luck on improving you flying skills and I "feel" you will grow to love this sport and RAF machines as mush as your fellow RAF pilots do.

[Harry_S.]

Tommy. Glad your flying skills are comming along. I have posted on this forum for many years and I just wanted to give you a couple pointers. Ist, do not ever post you think you "feel" something. I did that same mistake and I spent the next two years trying to explain what I meant. All the great gyro minds berated me incessantly for using that 4 letter word. Be prepared to back up what you feel.The word "feel" must be a post hypnotic suggestion in some peoples minds on this forum. It will start a post that will go on and on with a lesson in life verbage that will confuse you for life.You will question your own sanity. Be careful!!! Oh yes, you will then respond like I initially tried to do by trying to be understanding and thankful for their concern for your life. But you ultamately find that that person was using you to promote their agenda, not help you.
Good luck on improving you flying skills and I "feel" you will grow to love this sport and RAF machines as much as your fellow RAF pilots do.



I corrected the spelling of that word, Larry.

Didn't want to invite any obsequious remarks.


Cheers :)

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

Am I to understand that anyone who is not part of the RAF group can not post helpful suggestions to anyone in this forum trying to give advise on how to make their landings easier without being suspected of ulterior motives?

[JR_T]

I haven't been up in about two weeks...so, this morning was clear and calm but real cool. I have no doors plus I don't fly below 70 deg. About 1000 hrs. the sun had warmed the air pretty good and the winds picked up. I headed to the airport. At the airport the winds were up to about 10-15. I'm the only one there.

Taxiing out, the sock was horizontal and the tail was kicking *up* now and then. Takeoff was good with the direct cw and on the crosswind leg I saw the IAS sashaying between 55 and 85 and it was a bit bumpy. It wasn't a fun ride so I cut it short after about 15 min., returned to the airport, landed and put her away.


Cheers :)

I thought about flying yesterday ... but waited until today for the reasons you described. Just got back today from a really fun time. 75 degrees, wind out of the east. Had the airport (KAYS) all to myself. Did probably 30 patterns of all kinds ... power off, power on, overhead patterns, tactical pitch up, autorotation from all sorts of angles, cross-wind ... what not. I really enjoy the responsiveness and handling of my gyro ... especially when by myself. I give lots of rides, so had to remind myself how much fun one can have when solo.

Hope you can meet my son. He's the technical / mechanical genius.

[Steve Osborne]

I had an interesting day. Dan Dase from Forthworth TX and a member of this forum was in town today, he called me to see if I was going to be around the airport. I almost dropped the phone trying to get out the door so fast. Dan has about 8 thousand hrs in fixed wing, his ratings are COMM, SEL, MEL, INST, CFI and took his Gyro check ride with Martin Weaver earlier this year. He has a Bonanza FW and a RAF2000 his favorite. Dan and I traded story's for few hrs then jump into my RAF went flying, we had a blast. Get in here and post Dan.

[dragonflyerthom]

I agree Steve the more the more fun and the exchanging of info. HE hehehe.

Steve it really would be nice to have an other RAFer on the forum. I would love to meet more of us here.

[Harry_S.]

Well, I know we've been having some really bad flying weather around the country lately, even in the Southeastern region...so how have our newer RAF'rs been doing, like namely, Tommy, Wayne and Thom?!

I know Thom is busy making money while doing Tax Returns for the unfortunate that have to work for a living?!

Tommy and Wayne...are you grounded by the weather??


Cheers :)

[reelmule]

Photos!

Who the hell has time for photos with all there is to do while taking off, flying straight and level, turns and landings?

Photos will have to wait a while.

Tommy

Good call Tommy--cameras and crowds are two of the most dangerous contributing factors to gyro accidents!!
Walt G.

[Harry_S.]

Photos will have to wait a while.

Tommy




A PERFECT CALL, TOMMY.

Right now you need to concentrate on your training and your practice.


Cheers :)

[WHUBBS]

Harry, the weather has been so bad (very cold for me 10-20 degrees) that i have not been up for some time, but took the chance to do lots of work at my church and church pre-school. have most of the work done and really hope i can get back in the groove as i do have a nice heated cabin. i will get my sight gage installed before my next flight as i had mentioned my RAF fuel gage is acting up and staying on full all the time. i only have 63 hours on my machine total and was really moving alone until it got down in the 20's.

wayne

[Harry_S.]

Yep Wayne, I know what it is to be grounded by the weather...even here in Florida.

I believe this has been the coldest winter that I've seen in my 23 yrs. here. By that I mean the total number of cold days spread throughout the winter season...and it's not over yet. ;) We've had freeze warnings here for 4 of the last 6 days..This morning it was 29 degrees and right now it's up to 71 @ 1300 hrs. Naturally it's too late for me to fly and...I'm on my first beer anyway.

I've been out to the hangar and been fiddlin' around with the machine but even that was a bit chilly. Not much flyin' this winter. :( Did get a couple hours strung out in 150, 172 and Lancer...but that's not like a gyro tho, huh?!

Better weather soon, we HOPE.


Cheers :)

[LARRYEBOYER]

Sure don't sound like global warming to me!!!

[TJMay]

Not weather, family.

We're on our annual 6-8 week trip out west in our motorhome to visit our 4 kids and our 7 grandsons.

Hope to get some concentrated hours when I get back home around the end of March or first of April. It's all I think about as I'm driving down the road. That's a good place to fly. A good place to land, etc.

Still trying to work out Bensen Days.

Tommy

[Harry_S.]

I heard from Wayne H. the other day and he said he finally got a break in the weather and got in a good 3 hrs. of air time.

I did get in a couple flights this past week.

Anybody else get a weather break and get unstuck from the ground?!


Cheers :)

[Steve Osborne]

Friday I was able to get out for a wile, it was little windy 11 gusting to 15 but warmer about 50 deg. just stayed local. Today Sunday I flew over to FDK, Chris Burgess nest. Winds were steady @ 10 when I left, but by the time Chris I were done BSing they had picked up to 12 gusting to 21. I had some what of a tail wind, so it did not take long to get back home. :D

[dragonflyerthom]

Hi Steve

Sounds like you were have lots of fun. Winds didn't bother you at all eh? I can hardly wait to get back into the air. Been rather hard with everything going on with me. I really do appreciate the flights sharing.

[Steve Osborne]

Glad to here you are doing better Thom. I worry about starting and stopping the rotor blades in gusty conditions. Hiding behind the hangar till they get up to speed works well. I could not be happier with the way LM stab works, in those type of winds you know it is back there and doing it's job.

[LARRYEBOYER]

And Steve, the world is a better place because your hand is on the throttle and you are at the stick!!

[dragonflyerthom]

I think I'm getting sick. LOL

Your guys are the bomb. Just don't go off on anyone HE HE HE.

[TJMay]

Well, it's been a while since I posted anything about my training what with travel, family, etc. etc. But, I have been training and just today agreed with my instructor that I am ready to solo!!!

I've been primirily working on my landings as everything else seems to have come realitively easy to me. Landings have been a challange but I turned the corner the last two trips to Brewton.

I hope to get back up there the second week in June with Sandy (my 3, 40 pound sandbags) and take my first solo around the pattern.

More as it happens.

Tommy

[Timchick]

Sounds Great, Tommy. Make sure you get some photos.

[WHUBBS]

Hello all, as some of you know i finished building my RAF last oct., which took 4 months to complete and took training with MR. RON MENZIE in Ark. since then i have put 97 hours on my machine and could not be more pleased with its performance. i did install the two ft. keel ext. and an air command H/S which was 9.10 sq. ft. with very large winglets of 4.66 sq. ft. i plan to haul it to Mentone this year to get it judged if possible. i was very sorry to hear RAF has closed its doors, when and if i should need spare parts. i am so pleased with my machine that i sold my Mooney A/C after 38 years of owning a fix wing. i am down to only two gyro's at this time and would fly much more but really want to save gas and not be a glutton.

Wayne

[StanFoster]

Wayne: I am happy for you. Hey...I bet you are wishing Bill Finnegan could see you now. Something leaves no doubt that he is anyway.


Stan

[Harry_S.]

HI Tommy and Wayne.

Nice to hear from you. Keep posting and you know...we like to see pictures. :D


Cheers :)

[13brv3]

Well, it's been a while since I posted anything about my training what with travel, family, etc. etc. But, I have been training and just today agreed with my instructor that I am ready to solo!!!

Sounds good Tommy. I was wondering how you were coming along. Dofin's been gone a lot recently, and I didn't know if you'd had much of a chance to fly. I'm hoping to have my SP add-on finished there on Monday.

Cheers,
Rusty

[Harry_S.]

Hi Rusty;

I'm gettin' old and maybe a bit forgetful. I looked at your profile and didn't pick up on what type of gyro you're flying. RAF maybe...I hope.

Anyway, good luck with your SP add on. Whenever you see Dofin up there, tell him I said "hey" would you?!


Cheers :)

[13brv3]

Hi Harry,

I'm almost finished with a single place Dominator, but since Dofin is conveniently located, I decided to use him and the RAF2000 for my primary training, and SP rating. I'll have to get an endorsement for the SP "set" that the Dominator falls into, but legally, I could fly it with my PPSEL license anyway.

I do my best to stay out of all RAF2000 arguments :lalala: but I can say that I haven't found it to be anywhere near the beast people claim it is. I'm reserving any real flight quality comments until I have something to compare it with though. So far, the RAF2000 (no stab or stabilator) is the only gyro I've flown.

I'll say hi to Dofin for you.

Rusty

[WHUBBS]

Stan, i pray BILL is watching me and i would give most anything if he were here for his comments and thoughts of building and flying our machines together, and to take a ride with me. now that my machine is complete and flying. i was so much looking forward, for he and i to fly our machines together some day.

Stan, do you know whatever happened to Bill's RAF project machine?? a friend of mine here in Tenn. is thinking about selling his Brantley chopper and using the money to purchase a used RAF that is flying. this fellow is the person that painted my RAF.

thanks

Wayne

[Dmorris]

Rusty,

I agree with your comment "I haven't found it to be anywhere near the beast people claim it is." I have owned two RAF's and flew with and without a stab. Personally I enjoyed flying both. Without the stab and with any wind I was flying stick and throttle. With the stab the throttle, for the most part, was set it and forget it. I was taught early in training to manage the throttle and accept free altitude.

Although I have a considerable number of hours in Gyro's most of mine is in RAF's. This too limits my expertise within my relm of experience. I am flying out west next week to demo the Xenon.

Good luck with your Dominator!

David Morris
Somerset, Ky.

[Harry_S.]

Without the stab and with any wind I was flying stick and throttle. With the stab the throttle, for the most part, was set it and forget it. I was taught early in training to manage the throttle and accept free altitude.

David Morris
Somerset, Ky.



Sorry about choppin' up your post David but, the above is essentially what the RAF driver has experienced in correcting the pitch instability in the RAf 2000.

It's difficult or rather impossible for one who has not piloted both of your scenarios above, to really appreciate, let alone understand what you experienced.


Cheers :)

[Vance]

A stock RAF felt like a rocking chair. As long as I didn’t fight with it I felt like it sort of flew on its own. I did not like the rocking sensation but I felt that I could get used to it.

I flew an RAF with a large horizontal stabilizer and an extended keel. It felt more purposeful and competent. It felt willing, but not enthusiastic.

I flew an RAF with a stabilator and an ej25 and it leapt into the air and felt more like a muscle car from the sixties. It was not particularly responsive and sort of rocked around, but it got the job done. I had trouble learning the timing because my instructor kept coming on the controls. I felt seduced by the power. It still felt like a rocking chair with a view.

All of them felt relatively benign. I was flying in light winds, 3 to 5 mph gusts.

I felt that they were all much easier to fly than a Robinson 22.

I suspect that the piloting skills come into play when conditions are not so idyllic or when exploring the limits.

I have not had enough experience in gyroplanes to know how much danger I was in or how easy it would be to respond to challenges.

With road racing motorcycles I would often learn how close to the edge I was by watching others crash. My crashes were all catastrophic failures, rather than finding the edge. I learned that I could come back from the other side of the edge as long as nothing went wrong.

I feel that finding the other side of the edge in a gyroplane would not be so instructive.

Thank you, Vance

[Dmorris]

Harry,

What I tried to say is without a stab the natural tendency in turbulence is to push the stick forward when the RAF would pitch up. The better option is to reduce power and let it climb thus accepting the free altitude. With the stab my experience was the whole machine was more uniform, and stable, in windy conditions. I did not feel the need to constantly manage the throttle.

Harry, chop away this probably doesn't make any more sense than my pevious post. I don't take it personally.

David Morris

[Heli-Davidson]

Hi Harry and the Rest of the Best,

First, I've enjoyed reading the posts here immensely, and please, please, please keep up the great work, including flying, writing, and posting photos.

At the risk of also alienating those who may not have seen or waded through my first post to the RAF forum, I'm going to be getting a 1995 2000GTX 2.2L carb Subaru that was in a nearly-stopped rollover, due to longitudinal instability while starting a taxi (the owner received the factory notice about the problem, and the fixes needed to prevent it, in the mail later, the day of the rollover - ouch!). I'm a private fixed-wing and helicopter pilot, and this will be my first experience with a RAF or gyro of any flavor (assuming I can rebuild the victim to make it airworthy again, and within my budget - I'm almost done building a Helicycle kit, which I bought, with all parts, less than a year ago - GULP! :) ).

If it wouldn't be off-topic, Harry, I think it would be useful for those of us who are thinking/dreaming about getting to the RAF/gyro flight training stage to ask questions, which I hope won't be too dumb. If that's cool, here's some of my questions:

- I fly the R22, which is one of the twitchiest aircraft to ever grace God's greenest little acres (the Helicycle is reportedly at least as twitchy, and has about 520 pounds less max gross weight than that of the R22 - I'm just a glutton for punishment, I guess! :) ). I assume one of the things that is practiced in RAFs/gyros is power-idle simulated-emergency landings, and that they closely resemble helicopter autorotations, if are not identical (except for the initial drop of the helo collective to reverse the downward airflow through the rotor blades) -e.g., cyclic back slightly to maintain rotor RPM, cyclic forward slightly to maintain airspeed, keep rotor rpm and airspeed within limits, within about 40 feet of the ground, begin leveling the ship, then keep pulling back on the cyclic to start flaring, bleed off horizontal speed while keeping rotor rpm up, and, when almost stopped horizontally, level the ship in ground effect, settle to the ground, and walk away, alive, if not unhurt. Of course, the helo pilot also has to manage rotor rpm with the collective, including on the set-down (and, that may be the primary advantage of a helicopter, except that you have an additional thing to worry about your hands not screwing up!

- I realized that gyros seem to be piloted from the left seat when solo, like fixed-wing aircraft, while helicopters are generally piloted solo from the right seat. Does anyone know why this is? No one has been able to tell me why fixed-wing and helos are opposite, and it would appear that there was more fixed-wing influence on gyros, than helicopters. Now that I think about it, this makes sense, since the first gyros predated the first really controllable helicopters by about 13 years.

- I noticed that solo gyro students carry weight in the passenger seat, and gradually reduce it until they can fly without it - I take it this is done while working toward the check ride. On my first R22 solo, my instructor ensured that I knew which way the cyclic would need to be moved to compensate for the lack of a passenger, wished me good luck, stepped out, disconnected his headset, and walked far enough away to not get hit by any flying parts (aka outside the lethal "blast radius" :boom: ). I picked up, wobbled a bit, steadied within a few seconds, and the rest of the four circuits of the pattern, landings and takeoffs were just as if I had been doing it that way forever (much to my surprise ... and relief! :hail: ). Is the weight used in gyros because these are students with no other flying experience, or because the MGW of a 2000Gxx is a bit more than that of an R22 (i.e., not very heavy)? Does this help prevent rollovers? All/some/none of the above?

- Since I have a PP-ASEL/RC, I only need a gyro add-on rating for an additional category, as I understand it. That suggests the typical 20 hours dual, 10 hours solo minimum training with a CFI in the new category/class/type. However, it appears that some people with PP-ASELs have soloed after less than 20 hours dual. Is that up to the CFI, or is this one of those questions to which you only get a sly smile in response? Aka, "Do as I say, not as I do."

- It appears the closest high-hour-RAF CFI to me (in the SF Bay area) is Ron Menzies, when he's in Arizona. The closest gyro CFIs of any kind seem to be at the periphery of the SF Bay area, e.g., Sacramento and the rest of the central San Joaquin Valley. Would it be advisable to get my add-on rating training done on another gyro make/model with the closest behavior to that of a 2000GTX, and then spend a few hours with a high-hour-RAF CFI to show me any differences in performance, technique, and where the end of the world is around the edges of the envelope? That would certainly save me a bunch of travel money. Does my facility with the R22 lend any weight (so to speak) as to my skills in twitchy, light aircraft, and suggest how they might translate to being able to learn to fly my 2000GTX (under gyro CFI supervision, of course)?

- I ultimately would like to earn a CFI rating in my RAF, as I am already on my way to earning my instrument, commercial, CFI, and CFII ratings in helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft. It seems like the RAF community could use some new blood, especially blood not filled with alpha/beta-blockers, anti-coagulants, orally-ingested insulin, steroids, and ... Viagra/Cialis/Propecia! :lol: Does this sound like a plan, so that there will be someone alive in a decade, or so, to fly the Next Generation of Young Eagles and teach distant future student pilots in gyros?

- This may be straying even further off-topic, but, since a Repairman's Certificate was granted to the original builder of my 2000GTX, and they are only granted once for each aircraft forever, I can't legally get the Repairman's Certificate for this aircraft (a question has gone out about whether complete disassembly and reassembly of a kit can change this). However, can I still earn a Gyroplane Repairman Inspection Certificate (aka Repairman Certificate – Light-Sport Aircraft, Inspection Rating)? Since it appears this only applies to ELSAs, can I get the status of my gyro changed to ELSA, once it's repaired? I seem to recall there's a grace period where some older "heavy-ultralight" aircraft can transition to ELSA before a certain date (January 1, 2008, IIRC). I know, I know, get thee to an FSDOery, or at least the FAA/EAA/PRA/LSA web sites.

Anywaaay, this wound up much longer than intended (I did try reeeeally hard to keep it shorter), but, enquiring minds want to know!

Thanks for any and all help, keep reporting on your flying, and All the Best,

Jim

[dragonflyerthom]

Jim

Your post has put me into a time warp. Back to the months I was in Saigon(Ho Chi Min City) assigned to the Combined Military Interrogation Center. We had several dozen Editor who had the job of making life difficult for the Interrogators with their persistent clarification questions. We would have rather lengthy reports but then the Editors would send the report back. Normally with more than twenty question to clarify the report. The 2-3 page report would then go back over but now consisted of 4-5 more pages. This would come back with another 20 or more questions. and so it went until that 2-3 page report was 35 to 40 pages.

So I know where you are coming from. Keep post it does make some interesting reading.:wave:

[TJMay]

I did it!

Wednesday morning, I did 4-5 T&Gs with my CFI and by noon, I was ready. I strapped Sandy, my 3-40 pound sandbags, into my right seat and taxied out to the threshold. My CFI was in the grass with his handheld and digital camera.

I pre-rotated, took off and was, by agreement, to fly out for a little to get my trim adjusted to the change in weight, enter the pattern, do one go-around and then two T&Gs and a full stop. Everything I did was perfect up to turning final that first time. Then, I forgot just about everything I know. I was lucky to have not flipped. I should have done another go-around, should have chopped power, should have ..., ... but I didn't. What I did do, as bad as that first landing was, was to remember this one thing I've read here many times; keep flying the airplane. I got back on the runway (yes, I was off the runway) got some airspeed and got off the ground. It was not pretty.

I went around the pattern again doing everything right but was a little shook up so I did a full stop. Not pretty again but all in one piece. Then, I remembered all the things I knew and should have done to get properly setup on final.

Took the rest of the day off and returned early the next morning, determined to get it right this time. Took Sandy out of the right seat, flew 4-5 patterns and T&Gs with my CFI and was again ready.

This time, I was good. Put Sandy back in the right seat, did my pre-flight, taxied out, pre-roated, took off, flew the pattern doing one go-around and nailed my next two T&Gs. I was suppoesd to do a full stop after that but my CFI radioed me to go out and have some fun. So I did! Flew around for about 20 minutes, then returned to the pattern for anoher good (for a beginner) landing and a full stop.

It was fabulous. Got a lot to learn but I soloed today and it felt great. A huge personal accomplishment.

Thanks to all for your valuable input.

Tommy

[Timchick]

Congratulations Tommy! Great job. So where's the photos?

[13brv3]

That's GREAT Tommy :first:

We're going to have all kinds of gyros flying around here now :-)

Rusty (say hi to Dofin)

[Timchick]

Maybe next year we can have a Florida panhandle gyro flyin.

[Harry_S.]

That's beautiful Tommy.

While reading your post this morning I had a grin from ear to ear. My DB asked what was wrong and I told her of your post Really happy for you.

I was thinkin' about you last night and I was going to mail you this morning to find out what went on. I thought you were going to solo this past Monday?!

Congratulations again and keep us posted.

Enjoy it Tommy...but don't push it, ;) Oh yeah...pictures, we want pictures.


Cheers :)

[JEFF TIPTON]

Nothing like the first solo.

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

Nothing like the first solo.

Well.....I can think of one first that was better. ;) :D

[Fl90]

OHHH Yea.....

[Joe Pires]

Congrats Tommy!!!

[StanFoster]

Tommy: A slap on the back and a hardy handshake to ya....:peace:


Stan

[LARRYEBOYER]

Chuck. Are you referring to the first time as a kid you did not fall off your tri cycle? Oh yeah!!! Me too!!!

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

No it was not my trike, what I was riding I didn't fall off of. :p

[Fl90]

Dohhh! .

[Harry_S.]

So Tommy...how's the solo time comin'?!


Cheers :)

[TJMay]

Well, the day after I soloed, Dofin had to leave town for 10 days. He'll be back around the 10th and I'll be there around the 11th!.

How dare he!

Tommy

[Harry_S.]

Well, the day after I soloed, Dofin had to leave town for 10 days. He'll be back around the 10th and I'll be there around the 11th!.

How dare he!

Tommy



Oh Oh, maybe...no, I got a hunch, but I'm a-no-gonna say.

It's not what a lot of minds are thinkin'.


Cheers :)

[TJMay]

well, I think I might know what you're thinking but anything about his business needs to come from him.

Tommy

[Harry_S.]

You're right there Tommy.

I would say that what you're thinkin' is not what I was thinkin', OK?!

He may be on vacation?! Let's wait and see what, if anything, transpires.


Cheers :)

[TJMay]

Got back to Brewton this weekend. The weather was perfect and no Navy so I could fly and fly I did.

After this weekend, I've got over 20 hours dual and more than 5 hours solo. My takeoffs are good and I'm nailing my landings. Not overconfident but confidnet that I can fly and land this thing.

After one more trip up to Brewton and I'll be ready to bring my bird home, take the practical and the knowlege tests for my license and then, ....

I love this thing.

Tommy

[Timchick]

Sounds Great. Good going.

[StanFoster]

Tom: Isnt it fun? way to go...:wave:


Stan

[Harry_S.]

You're doin' good Tommy.

Keep us posted.


Cheers :)

[Harry_S.]

The weather forecast was for thunderstorms. I took my "Fergy" for his morning walk at 0530 and we had a full moon and some clouds.

At 0800 I headed to the airport. Everything is lookin' good. Got airborne about 0830 and the weather and sky were beautiful. CAVU and a South wind, steady at about 10.

I diidn't have the camera, but wasn't interested in pictures anyway...just a perfect morning for flyin', altho, I wish I had it along as it was crystal clear for photos.

I trimmed 'er up for S/L, added about 200 rpm and nudged 'er into a shallow left turn. Took me hand off the stick and let 'er fly. I looked at about a 1/2 mile radius turn and using only throttle and rudder let 'er go for about 15 min. Real nice.

A beautiful flight.

Here it is almost 1730 and still no rain. :D


Cheers :)

[TJMay]

I got back to Brewton on Saturday after meetring with Tim, Frank, Dofin for lunch in Milton. Much history and gyro talk and I enjoyed it a lot.

In the wake of Metone, my weekend pales but here it is anyway.

After Saturday's lunch, I drove to Brewton. I flew Saturday late afternoon and was completely by myself. It was awesome. I was nailing the landings. Flew out to the practive area and did S-turns, 360's, steep tunes, etc. etc., all in prearation for my practical exam soon.

Flew again on Sunday morning. Pretty much alone and beautiful weather.

I had a great teacher. After 10 months and 20 or so hours dual, I am now "The Pilot in Control".

I love this machine!

Tommy

[Timchick]

Congrats Tommy. I enjoyed our lunch also. I didn't manage to squeeze in any flying yesterday when I got back or today. I'm hoping to fly this week sometime.

[Heli-Davidson]

Hi Tommy,

Congratulations on your first major aeronautical milestone! You will never forget your first takeoff, your first landing, and especially your first solo. Mine 35 years ago still seems like it was just yesterday, in exactly the same place as yours, but, I was a Navy student pilot flying the slightly more powerful than a RAF, 1285 horsepower, controllable-pitch prop, nine-cylinder, radial-engine equipped T-28 Trojan (insert your favorite sophomoric phallic joke here :) You will also remember every detail of your check ride with the FAA examiner.

It's very good that you experienced the brain fart the way you did, feeling like you had forgotten everything you were supposed to have learned, and coming back right away to do everything right. It's much better to get that inevitable experience, that all aviators eventually go through, out of the way with your instructor around, on a nice day, without other traffic interfering. When I first soloed in a helicopter, I did it at Oakland International Airport, with dozens of wide-body commercial jets, corporate jets, and private fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters taxiing around and flying in and out of five runways (the helicopters often actually use major taxiways as runways there - you haven't lived until you've taken off or landed with a jet bearing down on your puny butt!). You definitely don't want the brain fart to happen in that kind of situation, or, almost as bad, during your check ride.

Remember, also, that when you earn your private pilot certificate, you will have only learned enough to know how to learn much, much more. Even after all of my flying, I still learn something on just about every flight (sometimes not for the first time! :) Anyone who either says they know everything there is to know about flying, or acts like it, should be taken with a grain of salt.

Don't be surprised, one of these days, somewhere, sometime, when you're least expecting it, hearing "Experimental rotorcraft N476VY ..." on CTAF or a tower freq where you're flying!

Congrats again, good luck on your check ride, and All the Best,
Jim

[Harry_S.]

Anyone who either says they know everything there is to know about flying, or acts like it, should be taken with a grain of salt.





Amen to that, Jim.


Cheers :)

[Harry_S.]

Tommy, you're doin' great. I believe we're all watchin' your progress...and it's good.

Continue practicing the required maneuvers and you will be our newest "rated" gyro pilot.

Hang in there...and don't push it.


Cheers :)

[Resasi]

Tommy it has been a pleasure for a newcomer to read your progress, very encouraging and informative. Am hoping for my first autogyro ride, weather permitting, in an RAF this week-end. Certainly feel a lot more comfortable about it having been on this forum. Thing of it is, previous experience may well not count for much at all, so open for anything. Including of course the 'rush' of getting back into the air.

[dragonflyerthom]

You nailed that. THE RUSH.

[Resasi]

Certainly the most addictive thing I have yet experienced. Guess John summed it up for us all.

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds - done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there
Chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air.
Up, up the long delirious, burning blue,
I've topped the windswept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or even eagle flew -
And, while with silent lifting mind I've trod
The high untresspassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand and touched the face of God.

P/Officer Gillespie Magee 412 squadron RCAF. Killed 11 Dec 1941

[Harry_S.]

Tommy it has been a pleasure for a newcomer to read your progress, very encouraging and informative. Am hoping for my first autogyro ride, weather permitting, in an RAF this week-end. Certainly feel a lot more comfortable about it having been on this forum. Thing of it is, previous experience may well not count for much at all, so open for anything. Including of course the 'rush' of getting back into the air.



We're all with you Resasi. ENJOY. :D


Cheers :)

[Resasi]

Disclaimer: These are the impressions of a zero time(autogyro) beginner. I know zilch about them and will simply record what I experience. I am happy to be corrected and/or advised and would be happy to recieve any tips hints things to watch out for. Finding instructors here in the UK is not that easy. They are few and quite spread out. I believe myself to have been very fortunate with the one I have found. Having been an instructor myself FW, his knowledge base of some 40 years in Auogyros seems immense, has been to the factory and has been various places abroad training people, down to South Africa 6 times and trained the two guys possibly involved with the setting up of the RAF down there. His instructional methods seem sound, professional and very well put across.

Three hours drive to the airfield Henstridge on the Somerset border to RV with the instructor at 9:00. Small uncontrolled field with quite a lot of FW and microlights and a gaggle of about 15 autogyros. RAF's Merlins Crickets, Bensons, probably a few more I did not get the names of. The twin seat instructional machine is an unstabed stock RAF Unit 147. Seems that the CAA in the UK has a vise like grip on the sport and most mods are very difficult/slow/expensive to impliment. The pilots seem aware of the problems and seem to accept the limitations of the machine due the the regulatory difficulties of modding. Was able to get an hour in the morning and then half an hour just before the field closed at 7pm.
Discussion on gyros, aerodynamics, differences with FW, stability, rotor control, PO, PIO, blade flap,taxying, prerotator use, various requirements with regard to Rotor and engine RPM's rotor positions in the various phases of TO. Familiarised with the a/c, preperations for flight and actions after. Full briefing on walk around, cockpit prep, radio procedures for the airfield and fitting in with the FW arrival and departures during Low and high hops. Rotor control, run ups run down. Taxying. Air experience effects of controls, Low and high hops. Take offs circuits and landings.
Found it very interesting and my impression was that there was a lot more going on in the TO than in any FW. After what seemed a very packed hour spent time digesting going over it all then watching a number of other two seat and single seat gyros practicing airhops, meeting people looking at the various other machines and trying to learn as much as I could about the differences and helping out when possible without getting in the way.
Sadly the hook has now been set so have tentatively set up some more instruction. Since he is a very busy man and the only instructor, CAA approved maint inspector and instructor instructor with a large number of pupils coupled with the vagaries of the Brit weather I can only hope that I will be able to get some more time in soon.
It was fascinating and hugely enjoyable.

[dragonflyerthom]

Glad you enjoyed it. It helps to have a good instructor. Congrats on you quest to fly rotary wings.

[Resasi]

Now been down to Henstridge a few times, long drive though nice very early in the morning watching the sun rise particularly passing Stonehenge. Had my fair share of waiting for weather/wind. My instructor is great, and have now completed 4.5 hrs. Seem to have got the hang of getting the bird off and back on again and I have been assured by Tony that I am actualy doing it myself. I was aware that in the beginning he was following me on the controls but then I expected no less. I find it very interesting and of course as you might have expected quite addictive. I am hardly going where lark or eagle never did since I have been doing a lot of runway hopping but then have no problem with that at all. The missus has been commenting on my weekend absences and the cost however I reckon it has been worth every bit of that.
Great bunch of people down there, very friendly and helpfull all ready to answer any question any time. My son seems keen enough and I cannot wait untill we can get going together. It may well not be in our dream Carter Copter but it's going to be some sort of Gyro.

[Harry_S.]

May I call you Leigh?!

I am encouraged to see the attraction to Gyro flight is still up front. Stay focused and someday soon, I hope, you will be soaring with the other free flyers.

I just cannot describe the inner feelings I have when cruising along at 500 ft. on an early morning flight and viewing what's happening with those down there that are "stuck" to the ground. I, or rather "we", the fortunate ones, who can soar in their own machines are very fortunate, indeed. ENJOY. :D


Cheers :)

[Resasi]

Certainly may Harry, and thank you kindly for your thoughts. I would guess that many have wished to be where we go and so few the opportunity. We certainly are blessed.

[Aussie_Paul]

My instructor is great, and have now completed 4.5 hrs. Seem to have got the hang of getting the bird off and back on again and I have been assured by Tony that I am actualy doing it myself.

Tony Melody??

Aussie Paul. :)

[Resasi]

The very same. I do gather that he has been around the block on a gyro a few times and that I am in good hands. That certainly has been my impression, a real gentleman.

[Aussie_Paul]

The very same. I do gather that he has been around the block on a gyro a few times and that I am in good hands. That certainly has been my impression, a real gentleman.

In 1997 When I became the Oz RAF rep, Tony came to Oz to speed up my learning process re RAFs. We had a ball together. He had bought his daughter with him andshe and our similar aged kids got along nicely.

We both had some great stories about the similarities of what we had done during a similar time frame on different sides of the world.:whoo:

One thing he did instill in me was to never close the throttle quicky on a RAF when going above 70 mph until I was comfortable with the machine. I wonder why. :)

From the UK I have also met Marc Lermette (sp)and his brother as well as Dave Fairbrass at Bensen Days 1999 when I was still in the RAF camp. I had my first flight in a RAF with a stab several months after Bensen Days 1999 and RAF and I never saw eye to eye after that. :)

I guess I was just a party pooper!!! :)

Aussie Paul. :)

[Resasi]

Since we haven'y left the circuit on gone over 70 yet I don't know however will be seeing him on the weekend and will ask him Paul.

[TJMay]

Got Back to Brewton the past few days. Flew another few solo hours and a duel or so. Only need another duel houros so tob e qaulifed to take the knowledge and practivle test. I'm not worried about the practical, got that nailed. The knowledge test? Another story.

During the week, the Navy trains there and I found that terribly distracting. Flying out over the "practice field" and back into the pattern requires enough concentration from a student pilot; worrying about offending, or worse yet, hitting, a Navy trainer can put a damper on the experience.

I've also found a hanger about 40 miles from my home at an airpark, thanks to a lead from Tim Chick. 3,500 foot grass strip and hanger with workshop, bathroom and mini-kitchen. Dofin and I plan to fly there sometime around the first of Octonber. Then, I'll then fly out of there.

Still love this machine!

Tommy

[Aussie_Paul]

Since we haven'y left the circuit on gone over 70 yet I don't know however will be seeing him on the weekend and will ask him Paul.

I posted,One thing he did instill in me was to never close the throttle quicky on a RAF when going above 70 mph until I was comfortable with the machine. I wonder why.


That was a joke Resasi. :)

With the large thrust line to CoM offset and no stab a RAF, at higher speeds and a sudden reduction in power, the nose rises dramatically without any stick input. :eek: :eek:

Aussie Paul. :)

[Timchick]

Resasi,
Take some photos the next time you go for lessons.

Tommy,
Great news. Let me know when you guys are headed this way and I'll meet you up there.

[Harry_S.]

It sure does sound like you're doing just fine, Tommy.

Continue to learn and have fun doing it. ;) Enjoy.


Cheers :)

[BUD ONEAL]

Tommy,

When you do back tell Dofin and Marisa that Bud,Rhonda and Hannah said "Hello". Thank you

[asmuzsr]

Do we know if Dofin is working with SARAF?

[Harry_S.]

I'd like to see that he is...as well as Hunn and Logan. Three great instructors. ;)


Cheers :)

[TJMay]

I asked Dofin that. He said he's been talking to them but the content of their talks is not known.

While he can fly anything, he is RAF all the way so I hope he works something out with them.

Tommy

[Resasi]

Paul, Tony remembers you well. Still didn't go over 70 ;) but had a blast this weekend. Two great days with another 2.45 hrs in the log book. 6:15 mins so far. We did low slow flight over the runway, s turns, vert descents, power off/engine failure after T/O landings, small circuits and generaly working towards solo. Tony seems happy with the progress and I am loving every minute. Stayed over this weekend which had two happy outcomes, I didn't have to do the six hours extra driving or 0530 wake-ups and did manage to go down to the pub with the guys and have a very pleasant evening.
Tim forgot my camera...again. My son got on my case about that too. He is presently reading up his Rotorcraft Flying Handbook in between diaper changes and feeds, hope he's hiding it from Momma, we are not quite sure what view she might have on the matter.
My flying might be curtailedfor a bit as I have just learned I might have an op done to straighten out some displaced bones in the foot which will preclude pushing rudder pedals for a bit. Darn shame, really looking forward to possibly going solo soon, at least before winter sets in and it starts getting cold.

[Harry_S.]

After being grounded for over a month due to cataract surgery on my left peeper, I took to the sky today for a much needed fix.

While I was kept on the ground, I devised a new bracket for my pre-spinner, as the previous new setup didn't perform well at all. The previous setup only made it over 100 revs and I had to milk it up to get takeoff speed. Today was the same thing. Got it to a max of 130 and then had to coax it up. I didn't check the condition of the clutch/drive plate surface beforehand. I forgot...advanced age I guess. ;)

Back in the hangar I took the drive plate off and it was slick as glass. No wonder she wouldn't spin up?! I roughed it up a bit and put it back on. I should get considerably more revs on the next flight.

Anyway...today's fly was just visually fantastic, as anyone living in Florida can tell you...early on it was a cloudless sky and eventually we had "skies of blue and clouds of white"...a beautiful morning.-...................Forgot my camera.

Twas a joy to get unstuck from the ground.


Cheers :)

[StanFoster]

Harry- How big was the Cadillac you had removed from your eye? Dad had to have a Cadillac removed also while in Florida. You guys are driving too close! Stan

[Resasi]

Harry know how you feel, have had a cadilac removed from each peeper.
Re: prerotation only just started but how I am being instructed is to engage at idle, allow to prerotate till rotor rpm stagnates, in this one around 90 in still wind, then gently feed in some throttle to around 2300-2600 eng rpm and then up around 150 rotor let the machine begin to roll and bring in power, release clutch at 200 rotor rpm.
We did have it not disengage yesterday, but disassembled greased and cleaned and seemed to work fine after that.

[Harry_S.]

Harry- How big was the Cadillac you had removed from your eye? Dad had to have a Cadillac removed also while in Florida. You guys are driving too close! Stan



A good one Stan.

You know...I never heard that one before. Led a protected/secluded life I guess. ;)


Cheers :)

[Harry_S.]

Harry know how you feel, have had a cadilac removed from each peeper.

Well, I had a real easy time of it except for the lifting and bending restrictions. The garage door where I hangar my machine must weigh over 500 lbs. and I elevate the machines tail with a 4x4 block and I'd have to bend over and lift the tail...goin' and comin' and with the tow bar on it, it must weigh 60-80 lbs...so, I laid off the lifting and bending.

I will catch up on my flying for a few weeks and then have the other peeper fixed.


Re: prerotation only just started but how I am been instructed is to engage at idle, allow to prerotate till rotor rpm stagnates, in this one around 90 in still wind, then gently feed in some throttle to around 2300-2600 eng rpm and then up around 150 rotor let the machine begin to roll and bring in power, release clutch at 200 rotor rpm.

That sounds reasonable but the procedure I use in a no wind condition is...
.



For solo takeoff.

With the stick full forward, lightly engage at idle and when erpm lowers to about 900 feed in some power and maintain idle and gradually add pressure to the grip and coordinate throttle and pressure to about 18-1900 erpm and when rrpm goes past 150, gradually move the stick fully back and start rolling. Add throttle to 3500 and simultaniously release the pre-spinner grip and when rrpm reaches 170, move the stick to mid position to balance on the mains and increase throttle to 4000 rpm. When rrpm goes past 200, give it full throttle and hold 'er down (nosewheel off the ground) till you hit at least 40 mph and let 'er lift off.

With both seats filled, keep the nosewheel on the ground 'till you hit 60 mph and let 'er lift off.

But whatever...follow your instructors lead...not mine. ;)


Cheers :)

[Resasi]

Well like most new machines cos you're tracking a lot of new things one tends to miss stuff Harry. Seems we engage then leave the power to avoid stressing the prerotator when it stabalizes feed in some more gently 2300 approx bringing stick firmly but steadily at 120 rotor rpm to full back. As wind and prop feed disc it increases to hopefully min of 150 rrpm release brakes and flatten rotor disc to release disc drag then back again to avoid disc slowdown keeping nosewheel in contact but not too firmly to avoid wheelbarrowing. 200 rrpm clutchout feed in full power then at around 250 -300 when she lifts off maintain her in ground effect to allow speed to build to your choice of Vx or Vy then allow her to climb.
Seems we are keeping the clutch in a bit longer but otherwise pretty much the same, haven't got to the single occupant TO yet but have practiced wheel balancing for that.
It's a blast Harry and I am really enjoying it. But then I always did. Always thanked the good Lord he allowed me to persue a profession where each time I went to work I looked forward to that going down the runway. It never lost its thrill for me didn't matter what in or where we were going.

[Harry_S.]

Let us know when you go solo Leigh...she's an entirely different machine and she'll make you really smile. ;) :D


Cheers :)

[cgmg]

Well, I experienced my first flight in our RAF with a passenger last night!

I've been practicing my takeoffs and landings, until I was comfortable that I was ready to take Cathy up. After flying Wednesday night, I came home and told Cathy that it was time for her first flight, whenever she was ready.

Last night, we went up to the hangar, and it was a beautiful evening for flying. Once we got airborne, we decided to go fly near our home, something which Cathy never got to do in the single place, as it was too far for her experience. It's about a 17 mile flight to the house.

On the way there, we flew through several combine dust clouds, as they are hitting it hard around here now. The air was extremely smooth, and a comfortable temperature. Cathy was following me on the stick, but wasn't quite ready to take the controls yet.

Had a number of people wave at us, so we would circle over them, and wave back. When we returned to the hangar, the wind had changed 90 degrees, so I was destined to land on the rougher of our two runways. I don't mind landing on it, but never use it for takeoff.

Cathy said I aced the landing, which made me feel really good. I've made a lot of progress since my first five attempts at landing in the new machine.

We hope to get up again tomorrow morning, weather permitting. This time Cathy wants to stick it a little, which is exciting. After 5 years of either Cathy watching me fly, or me watching her fly, it was a great experience to be in the air, at the same time, in the same machine.

Sorry, everyone, no pictures. We got everything else lined up for a good flight, except the camera, which we left in the truck. I do promise to give Stan and Tim a run for their money, picture-wise.

[Harry_S.]

You're on your way now, Mark. That's what the two seaters are meant to be, especially the enclosed side by side.

You and Cathy can fly year round now.

Enjoy!! ;)


Cheers :)

[LARRYEBOYER]

Mark. Congrats and many safe adventures.

[TJMay]

Yesterday, I got my baby home. Well, to an airpark about 40 miles from my house.

Dofin flew her there as the logistics of me getting to Brewton, flying to the airpark and then getting me and Dofin back to Brewton and then me back home was just too much.

Anyway, I now have her nearer home and can fly almost anytime I want.

This was my first real experience with a grass strip. The slower lift off speed felt very different but after a few TO's, I got it. There was was little difference in the landings.

I look forward to building hours, skill and confidence.

Tommy

[dragonflyerthom]

Good for you TJ

Hope to see some pics from you some day.

[Harry_S.]

How 'bout some pics of the airpark and runway etc., to start off with!

Next...some side, rear, quartering photos of your machine?!

We like to see gyro photos. :D


Cheers :)

[TJMay]

Being so new to flying solo, I'm usually kinda busy flying but I'll try to take some pictures of the strip and my baby next trip over there.

Tommy

[Harry_S.]

Don't worry about takin' aerial pics until you're comfortable with it. We can wait.

Some ground shots of your machine are welcomed tho. ;)


Cheers :)

[Timchick]

Congrats on the move Tommy. October 20 is the next EAA chapter meeting at Sandy Creek. You should fly over and meet some of the guys. I think the meeting is 9 AM.

[TJMay]

Tim,

This will be the first meeting within flying distance since I started flying but unforunately, I've got plans to be out of town then that I can't change.

Hopefully, there will be another in range soon.

Tommy

[Timchick]

Meetings are 3rd Saturday of every month.

[Harry_S.]

I'm gonna have the "cadillac" in my other eye removed tomorrow, so I went for a fly two times this week. Won't be aviatin' for the next two weeks. Gonna get a little maintenance work done on the machine in the off time.

Upstairs here the past week has been CAVU. Blue skies and just a bit of wind. Beautiful flyin' weather. The first flight I took the camera but my luck...not enough batt. power. The second fly...you got it, forgot the camera.

Had some good relaxin' flyin' tho and did some slow, steep approaches. Good times.


Cheers :)